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Path of Exile 3.0+ |OT| To Oriath, Xbox Live, and Beyond

yagal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,649

OMG I want this, I don't really know how animated guardian works but I'm gonna roll this
It was fun to set up, level the Pathfinder, respect, gear up, funny to have 50 blades following you but in the end, the build is kinda boring. Maybe it's just because I'm a little bit spoiled coming from what I consider a superior build: Raise Spiders.
I would not recommend. Play Raise spiders instead of this.

I really enjoyed the time spent with Ice Shot during to leveling process, I want to play it next
 
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danowat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,478
That's it, I am going to do what I thought I wouldn't, I am binning the ranger off, it's too frustrating to play, and I am going to try a CI Vortex / Coldsnap
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,457
I would not recommend play Raise spiders instead of this.
You mean, "you would not recommend [playing Animate Guardian, one should] play Raise Spiders instead", right? I got confused a second.

I'm starting to get a lot of gear that seems good, and it makes me think "Oh, I should make a character with that weapon, of I should do a dual blade next, oh this one has cool modifiers I should do an Ice-based character next"... Choices are going to be hard.
 

Telaso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
445
I decided to blow all my currency and make a double cospris malice CoC assassin. 20ex well spent so far...

Money truly does buy happiness in this game.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,234
Man how the hell did we play this league mechanic without auto pick up organs? That was some dark ages shit.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,132
Texas
They keep making the same mistakes and fixing them after a few weeks.

Maybe they need to fit beta testers into their schedule or budget.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,457
I still haven't done my last ascendency, because the 6th trial refuses to show up while I've run into the others multiple times.
When you start a new league, do the old trial carry over or do you have to find them again? What about the unveil recipes, or the delve ones?

I hate delve so, so much. I'd like to find the recipes and then let Niko die in a cave somewhere, but alas, no luck.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,457
Wooooof. I'm impressed that dedicated players kept doing that every league since the beginning, I probably wouldn't have the patience.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,234
What cool things can I do with a Hunter Influenced Onyx Amulet?
Most desirable mods for a Hunter amulet these days seem to be the +1 Intelligence skill gems, +1 to Chaos skill gems and Chaos damage over time multiplier. The Elder also has the Chaos damage over time multiplier mod.

There are two big crafts you can go for.

*Alt spam until you get one of those mods on the Hunter base that isn't Chaos damage over time multiplier.
*Get an Elder amulet base and alt spam for the Chaos damage multiplier.
*Awakener orb the Elder base on to the Hunter base.. see what you get. You can see what you get and go from there (multicraft, Hunter orb slam etc.).

The other option is to simply use Fossil crafting on the amulet targeting Chaos and + gem level affixes so that would be Aberrant (chaos mods) Atheric (spell caster mods) and Pristine for life/Dense for ES. Faceted doesn't work on amulet because it's not socketed gems mods on the amulet.


You could also just Chaos spam for a bit and see what you get but these rolls are very very rare. If you get 1-2 of these rolls via Chaos spamming and the rest of the amulet is good enough then you can try Hunter slamming for the other Hunter affix. I would only Hunter slam if what you had before was already worth in excess of 3 Exalts.

I am assuming this is item level 82+... if not then probably don't even bother with the expensive crafts.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
920
It's ilvl 85, which is why I asked.

I probably won't be able to craft the +gem mods on it for awhile, so I'll just hang onto it I suppose.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,234
You can also do other combinations like Intelligence plus Cold/Fire with other influence bases. Cold is probably the next best if you plan to make a Cold DoT amulet with a Redeemers base.

I would throw a few fossils at it and see what you get.
 

Shugga

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,362
The big money is +1 +1 amulets, so if you're bored you can try to alt/regal spam that (both prefixes)

edit: this is fine
 
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Shugga

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,362


Randomly made this when using orbs for my 36th challenge. Hit the onslaught randomly, objective was tailwind + elusive.
 

Alrus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
511
Belgium
Finally killed Sirus on my second try (had him spawned for a while but I was over 50% xp and didn't want to waste it), still don't really understand how to deal with him one shotting me from off screen when he multiplies but aside from that it wasn't that bad I guess. The fix to the storms made the early phase less annoying.

Dropped an Awakened Curse on Hit that sold for 10 ex, guess I can finally afford a Darkscorn and Divine flesh now.
 

Telaso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
445
I'm at 35 challenges dont, and the rest I have available are either super grindy, or super expensive. Deciding if I want to just dump all my currency into completing 36 or not...

Also, double cospris malice assassin is a lot of fun :)
 

Shugga

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,362
I'm at 35 challenges dont, and the rest I have available are either super grindy, or super expensive. Deciding if I want to just dump all my currency into completing 36 or not...

Also, double cospris malice assassin is a lot of fun :)
Thought I'd do 1500 bosses but fuck that
I'm about to do it with encounters 6 (ivory watchstone, guardian's exalted, awakener's orb, awakened gem lv5). I bought a level 4 awakened gem I need, and crafted good stuff with the orbs so I'm not throwing money away
Sirus conditionally and deadly encounters are also good options but a bit more grindy/annoying (haven't seen abaxoth this league)
 

Telaso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
445
Encounters 6 would be the one to dump all my money into. I saw some people are putting gems up at level 4 with just few million xp left to 5 for around ~8ex. Buy that and an awakeners orb and i'd be done. I bought a hunter orb and used it once already, and i have an ivory stone from my last sirus kill.

I'm at 1029 map bosses, and not sure i'm down for another 400 maps this league. I want to go play other games so I might just currency dump.
 

Shugga

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,362
And 36 done. 1018/1500 bosses, way too much of a grind, unless you target farm maps with 2 or 3 bosses and twin them all.
 

Telaso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
445
So you just went with Encounters 6 then? I'll probably do that as well. Then all I want to do is kill Sirus at level 8 and i'll be happy with the league.
 

Izayoi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
816
I have a few questions regarding endgame income streams. This league is the first time I have truly played the game (tried once a long, long time ago in HC and had a very frustrating experience for numerous reasons), so I am basically brand new to the endgame.

Current build/gear via PoB:


I can't reliably do all mods at this point without SIGNIFICANT gear investment (10+ ex per piece, and with the possibility of redoing all of my gear due to resists etc. it is realistically closer to 100ex for a full set of new gear, weapons aside which are 50-100ex each). I have maybe 25ex to my name according to Exile Diary, and that would require liquidating everything in my stash (realistically, I have about 500-600 chaos worth of liquid currency).

I have been told that crafting is basically worthless for reliable profit, and it has a huge currency barrier to entry. My independent research has pretty much confirmed this, would you guys agree?

Regarding mapping, I have several questions:
  • Is it always worth it to corrupt red-tier maps, even if I have completed the Atlas Bonus for it already? IIQ gain and potential profit seems fairly unreliable per Alch/Vaal and with T15/T16 I am bricking maps due to bad mods more regularly.
  • Is it more profitable to run lower tier (11-13) red maps and crush through them really quickly, or to take my time and methodically and carefully clear T15/16?
  • Should I be rushing Sirus? I have yet to meet the per-requisites (20 total watchstones socketed), and have thus far been taking my time, but I am getting impatient with the tiny trickle of currency I am currently getting.
  • Any big pro-tips on endgame mapping in general that a newbie might be overlooking?
  • Should I be prioritizing a given master? I run Zana whenever I can in the hopes of faster Atlas completion, and then Niko for Sulphite, and then Jun/Einhar for crafting mods - I have basically ignored Alva because the incursions are extremely dangerous in my experience and I wind up losing hours worth of XP whenever I decide to fuck with them.
I would like to delve more often, but Niko's Atlas missions are frightfully few and far between, and I am currently getting walled by very high Sulphite costs. Is there a good strategy for Sulphite sustain that I might be overlooking?

Other than slamming maps and the minuscule amount of currency they seem to provide, I am at a loss for how I can make any real money that leads to better gear without hundreds of hours of time investment at this point. Is this a common wall? Should I be looking at a different build that has a better currency -> power translation (if such a thing exists)? I have seen a lot of talk about Spectres being much stronger than Skeles so I am tempted to jump ship, and could do it at least from a refund/Regret standpoint - I have yet to look into the raw currency cost in terms of gear yet.

Maybe it's just time to put the game down and find something else until next season? Help me, fellow Exiles!!!

Edit: Couple of questions about physical skeles, for those who may know, as well:
  • For my own durability, is there any reason to target ES over raw HP? (More for how I should prioritize my last few skill points before 100.)
  • Do I need any armor, or should I continue largely ignoring it and targeting pure ES gear as much as I can?
  • Stacking To Dust seems like far and away the best way to juice my DPS at this point - does that sound right?
  • Do Ghastly Eye Jewels with +% chance to blind/taunt on hit stack? Is it worth having more than just one with decent rolls?
  • My Carrion Golems seem pretty fragile, should I consider Fortify over Brutality?
 
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Shugga

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,362
  • Is it always worth it to corrupt red-tier maps, even if I have completed the Atlas Bonus for it already? IIQ gain and potential profit seems fairly unreliable per Alch/Vaal and with T15/T16 I am bricking maps due to bad mods more regularly.
  • Is it more profitable to run lower tier (11-13) red maps and crush through them really quickly, or to take my time and methodically and carefully clear T15/16?
  • Should I be rushing Sirus? I have yet to meet the per-requisites (20 total watchstones socketed), and have thus far been taking my time, but I am getting impatient with the tiny trickle of currency I am currently getting.
  • Any big pro-tips on endgame mapping in general that a newbie might be overlooking?
  • Should I be prioritizing a given master? I run Zana whenever I can in the hopes of faster Atlas completion, and then Niko for Sulphite, and then Jun/Einhar for crafting mods - I have basically ignored Alva because the incursions are extremely dangerous in my experience and I wind up losing hours worth of XP whenever I decide to fuck with them.
  • Eh sure, I don't do it because bricking maps sucks. But I'm sitting on 100+ T14 and T15 at this point, and around 35 T16 🤷‍♀️
  • Nah, do T14 to T16 (14 are still fine, you can get shaper/elder guardians with awakener bonus in them)
  • Sure, rewards are very random but some are very expensive
  • Go for 90% completion and boss, clear metamorph, set your loot filter to very strict if using neversink. Don't waste time picking garbage pretty much. 6 sockets items are a big source of income (7 jewellers which your turn into fusings which sell well)
  • Run everything but alva yeah, she's a waste of time now. Only do niko on your best T16 with 20% quality (only chisel your T20, don't chisel yellow/blue maps, you have to scour them first so one chisel =5% quality). Never overcap your sulphite, always spend it

Don't forget to have gems to level up in your item swap, best one to level up this league is raise spectre. Once they're all level 20, vaal them and sell the level 21 ones you get for about an ex.
The prices for upgrades you're talking about seem insanely high. POB can help you figure out upgrades (better gems, better nodes, what to anoint, etc)
 

Izayoi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
816
  • Eh sure, I don't do it because bricking maps sucks. But I'm sitting on 100+ T14 and T15 at this point, and around 35 T16 🤷‍♀️
  • Nah, do T14 to T16 (14 are still fine, you can get shaper/elder guardians with awakener bonus in them)
  • Sure, rewards are very random but some are very expensive
  • Go for 90% completion and boss, clear metamorph, set your loot filter to very strict if using neversink. Don't waste time picking garbage pretty much. 6 sockets items are a big source of income (7 jewellers which your turn into fusings which sell well)
  • Run everything but alva yeah, she's a waste of time now. Only do niko on your best T16 with 20% quality (only chisel your T20, don't chisel yellow/blue maps, you have to scour them first so one chisel =5% quality). Never overcap your sulphite, always spend it

Don't forget to have gems to level up in your item swap, best one to level up this league is raise spectre. Once they're all level 20, vaal them and sell the level 21 ones you get for about an ex.
The prices for upgrades you're talking about seem insanely high. POB can help you figure out upgrades (better gems, better nodes, what to anoint, etc)
I am playing with Very Strict already and it seems like the overwhelming majority of gear drops I am getting are totally worthless, even now - I was toying with the idea of using Uber Strict instead, would that be a bad idea? I spend almost as much time now sorting through loot as I do actually playing the game.

I read about the item swap thing and then totally forgot about it until now - wasted an awful lot of exp and money not doing that sooner, ah well. Did not know that Vaal on those gave you a level 21. Related question, is there a way to get the 23% quality ones reliably or is it totally random? Is it even worth dropping the 5-10ex for those or are the lvl20/20% ones I'm using now fine? Should I Vaal all of my existing gems to get the level 21 versions? Will they retain their quality?

My biggest issue/frustration right now is my perceived frailty with a lot of mods at T15/16, and the massive XP loss I incur if I get careless for even a second. Delving is way safer and more consistent, but of course gated wholly by the Atlas (which I am beginning to resent). Wish we had free access to the mine, because I vastly prefer it to maps for leveling.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,234
I have a few questions regarding endgame income streams. This league is the first time I have truly played the game (tried once a long, long time ago in HC and had a very frustrating experience for numerous reasons), so I am basically brand new to the endgame.

Current build/gear via PoB:


I can't reliably do all mods at this point without SIGNIFICANT gear investment (10+ ex per piece, and with the possibility of redoing all of my gear due to resists etc. it is realistically closer to 100ex for a full set of new gear, weapons aside which are 50-100ex each). I have maybe 25ex to my name according to Exile Diary, and that would require liquidating everything in my stash (realistically, I have about 500-600 chaos worth of liquid currency).

I have been told that crafting is basically worthless for reliable profit, and it has a huge currency barrier to entry. My independent research has pretty much confirmed this, would you guys agree?

Regarding mapping, I have several questions:
  • Is it always worth it to corrupt red-tier maps, even if I have completed the Atlas Bonus for it already? IIQ gain and potential profit seems fairly unreliable per Alch/Vaal and with T15/T16 I am bricking maps due to bad mods more regularly.
  • Is it more profitable to run lower tier (11-13) red maps and crush through them really quickly, or to take my time and methodically and carefully clear T15/16?
  • Should I be rushing Sirus? I have yet to meet the per-requisites (20 total watchstones socketed), and have thus far been taking my time, but I am getting impatient with the tiny trickle of currency I am currently getting.
  • Any big pro-tips on endgame mapping in general that a newbie might be overlooking?
  • Should I be prioritizing a given master? I run Zana whenever I can in the hopes of faster Atlas completion, and then Niko for Sulphite, and then Jun/Einhar for crafting mods - I have basically ignored Alva because the incursions are extremely dangerous in my experience and I wind up losing hours worth of XP whenever I decide to fuck with them.
I would like to delve more often, but Niko's Atlas missions are frightfully few and far between, and I am currently getting walled by very high Sulphite costs. Is there a good strategy for Sulphite sustain that I might be overlooking?

Other than slamming maps and the minuscule amount of currency they seem to provide, I am at a loss for how I can make any real money that leads to better gear without hundreds of hours of time investment at this point. Is this a common wall? Should I be looking at a different build that has a better currency -> power translation (if such a thing exists)? I have seen a lot of talk about Spectres being much stronger than Skeles so I am tempted to jump ship, and could do it at least from a refund/Regret standpoint - I have yet to look into the raw currency cost in terms of gear yet.

Maybe it's just time to put the game down and find something else until next season? Help me, fellow Exiles!!!

Edit: Couple of questions about physical skeles, for those who may know, as well:
  • For my own durability, is there any reason to target ES over raw HP? (More for how I should prioritize my last few skill points before 100.)
  • Do I need any armor, or should I continue largely ignoring it and targeting pure ES gear as much as I can?
  • Stacking To Dust seems like far and away the best way to juice my DPS at this point - does that sound right?
  • Do Ghastly Eye Jewels with +% chance to blind/taunt on hit stack? Is it worth having more than just one with decent rolls?
  • My Carrion Golems seem pretty fragile, should I consider Fortify over Brutality?
I am not a Summoner main but I can try to help as best as I can.

Just looking at your POB, I can see some glaring issues. From the surface, I can guess based on your gear that you don't have much trouble doing damage but you are a bit fragile. First thing I look at people's gear when they are struggling are their flasks.

*You need to reroll the Suffix on your Quartz Flask to something better, like Curse immunity since you don't have any flask with curse immunity on it.
*You have no Bleeding immunity on your Seething flask! It's very easy to get it on your current flask, just take it to the Bestiary and get a Staunching mod on it.
*Throw an Augment on your Quicksilver flask as well.

The next thing I notice is that you only have 178% increased life from tree. Necromancers can easily go for 200%+ on tree since they don't need that much damage from the tree to start with. You have A LOT of points invested in minion damage along with other random stuff. I would at the minimum spec out of Faith and Steel (generally a node taken by ES users, now Life MoM users) and grab the Devotion life nodes just below it (and grab the jewel socket on the way). You are also missing out on the 2 point jewel socket below, jewel sockets are MASSIVE for Summoners due to Abyss jewel stacking.

I think I know why your gear is so expensive to upgrade... you have maxed out to 75% Chaos resistance (most people unless going for a specific build don't go past much 0% since the game is balanced around that). Honestly speaking since your Chaos Resistance is already so high, I would straight up recommend getting a Xibaqua Glorious Vanity Timeless Jewel and slot it near a useless Keystone to gain the Divine Flesh keystone. For you, you can get the 3 point jewels near the Resolute Technique keystone to get the Divine Flesh keystone. If you are able to slot this jewel into your build then your tankyness will go up INSANELY HIGH.

If you are STILL having tankyness issues then I would recommend giving up the 2nd wand and get a shield. Then get a Shield Charge/Faster Attacks/Fortify set up going to have fortify and maybe also invest in getting a Rumy's Concoction flask for more armor and block chance. Maybe get a Guard skill like Steelskin/Molten Shell into your build somehow as well.

If you are still having issues then I would recommend getting some inspiration from PoE Ninja for builds that are similar to yours. I have filtered to show builds that use Skeletons, Shield builds with Rumi, MoM. There are even 3 Necromancers with Glorious Vanity slotted in them (with the above filters also enabled). Play around with the filters to see what other people are using successfully:

Sample build on POE Ninja



Now for the generic questions:

*You kinda missed the early boat on crafting. Now we are in the mid to late game of the league and the crafting that is in demand is high end. Earlier on in the league you can craft some Jewels for profit that will sell if they have some life and two damage mods (or ES with two damage mods). High end crafting is mostly for rich boys and you have to be willing to gamble away loads of currency. Generally crafting is only really done to make gear for yourself even though 90% of the time it's cheaper to find stuff online, sometimes you want really specialized combination of affixes that the market isn't providing at a good enough price. Thing is that for you, you are using the 2nd most played build in the game right now (top build on SSF) so your items and upgrades will cost more on average than other builds and the higher you go the more the prices will skyrocket. Generally speaking, it's very difficult for you to craft gear that will be upgrade over what you have but the easiest way to get your feet wet is throwing some Bound fossils on some good minion focused bases.

*Vaaling maps on average is very profitable (you will almost always get back the Vaal you invested in the form of some other currencies) but you still need to be able to run them. You should specify which mods you have trouble with. If you are having trouble with stuff like Vulnerability curse mod then the aforementioned curse immunity flask can help greatly with that. Combined Vaaled maps with Sextants, Scarabs and maybe even Zana mods for more juice and returns. I wouldn't Vaal every map but my T15-T16s hell yeah. I would recommend first making some changes to make your build tankier and then try a few Vaaled maps to see how it feels.

*I would at least try to do T14 maps. The combination of higher map tiers as well as better base drops makes it far better to run them if you are able to. However if it's taking you too long to do them then there is no shame in running lower. Remember that you can sell maps and by this point you should be swimming in them, always list your unwanted high tier maps. If you can farm up a bulk of a specific type then you can charge a bit more. You probably need to read up on how to set up your maps to sell in bulk.

*Sirus lvl1 isn't very rewarding based on general consensus but Sirus lvl8 is VERY rewarding on average. Unless you play super often and your goal is to farm Sirus for currency, you don't really have much benefit to rushing Sirus.

*As far as end game currency gains tip goes... the best gains are done through acquiring smaller but higher quantity of currencies. All those 6 socket armor/weapon pick ups add up over time. Reliable currency is better than trying to bank on big ticket items. There is no real shortcut to gaining currency, you really just need to play a lot and efficiently. You shouldn't be spending too much time tinkering around with loot, whatever you get in a map you should dump in a Quad tab and then run the next map. Come back to the Quad tab after like 20-30 maps and then sort loot in search groups (you will find that it's easier and more efficient to do all at once rather than one at a time after every map). Always chisel your red maps, alch everything yellow and higher etc.

*For me Jun/Syndicate end up being very profitable. It's a very complicated system to get max gains out of but you can target specific stuff with it like IT the Fled in research head to get Pure Chayula breachstones which can sell for a lot. Scarabs are always sellable as well. Most Masters are great, I would say that you can just try to save up on Masters while running maps if you don't want to put time into them. Bank a bunch of the same time then chain run the same ones in a row. It's fine to skip Alva. Delve is always profitable as well and a nice break from mapping. Also don't underestimate prophecies, they can get you some nice stuff now and then.

As far as build to currency ratio goes... you are playing one of the best builds at that. This league is all about boss killing and Metamorph slaying for potential returns. Even big time mappers like Empyraen and Grimro have swapped from using fast mappers like Tornado Shot to Necromancer boss slayers because it's so profitable. Maybe Specters are better but it's not a massive jump. If you want a massive jump then look into the Strength stacking Zombie Necromancer builds that can get like 15+ ES with really fat Zombies. These builds do a ton of damage and are insanely survivable for their investment.


There are probably a million different tips I can give but I would focus on getting better defenses and then try your luck at the higher tier maps and bosses again.
 
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Luthor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,577
US, California
36 Challenges are finally complete! This took way too long this league and I'm really not looking forward to doing the Atlas like this again in the future. I love all the red maps... but what a grind.
 

Greenpaint

Member
Oct 30, 2017
641
I like Alva because you immediately get a nice loot explosion (that is affected by map mods as far as I know). With Delve, Einhar I have to wait until later. It can get dangerous in high density map with beyond, but it's manageable.
 

danowat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,478
I am quite enjoying Cold Snap / Vortex, it is simple enough to not have to have a pianists fingers, has decent offensive with CS and Vortex is nicely defensive, my only issue is the slightly uneffiecent way CS generates frenzy charges, and would like to improve it, because the snap, snap, snap of the frenzies reducing cooldown.

So, what is (or even is there?) a better way for a shadow to generate frenzies?
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
920
The past couple of days have made me more money than the whole league, I'm up to 5 exalts dropped (after a literal month of zero dropping) and sold some items to get up to 650 chaos, using 50 of that for 400 alterations.

My Double Strike 6-Linked + Dual Strike 4-Linked build is also working really well. Despite it being a 4 linked the AoE overlaps off of the Melee Splash and Ancestral Call make it strong enough to play even T16 maps and Delve. I don't think it's SSF viable though because it uses both the Dual Strike jewel for splash (completely random drop) and it uses the Strike Skills Attack 1 Additional Target off of the Hunter's Gloves that I bought for 10c-- completing Blights for the anoint is kind of out of the question for this build so you would have to get the Hunter Gloves somehow and also manage to roll the mod. Otherwise if you are fine not having the effective extra range the modifier provides for easier single target vs bosses, then it can be optional I suppose.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,234
I am quite enjoying Cold Snap / Vortex, it is simple enough to not have to have a pianists fingers, has decent offensive with CS and Vortex is nicely defensive, my only issue is the slightly uneffiecent way CS generates frenzy charges, and would like to improve it, because the snap, snap, snap of the frenzies reducing cooldown.

So, what is (or even is there?) a better way for a shadow to generate frenzies?
Trickster has a node that gives Frenzy charges on kill. Getting charges on bosses is a lot trickier though especially for DoT builds.

A clunky way is to use a mine plus mine charge support.
 

danowat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,478
Trickster has a node that gives Frenzy charges on kill. Getting charges on bosses is a lot trickier though especially for DoT builds.

A clunky way is to use a mine plus mine charge support.
That's interesting, I guess I could use a lightning mine to proc element equilibrium and get frenzy charges to boot........
 

Shugga

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,362
Having reached 36, I'm cashing out of the league

I got these to sell, if anyone's interested :



I'd rather sell in bulk (like all the T14 or all the T15 or all T16), prices are a clusterfuck so make an offer if you want them
 

Izayoi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
816
I am not a Summoner main but I can try to help as best as I can.

Just looking at your POB, I can see some glaring issues. From the surface, I can guess based on your gear that you don't have much trouble doing damage but you are a bit fragile. First thing I look at people's gear when they are struggling are their flasks.

*You need to reroll the Suffix on your Quartz Flask to something better, like Curse immunity since you don't have any flask with curse immunity on it.
*You have no Bleeding immunity on your Seething flask! It's very easy to get it on your current flask, just take it to the Bestiary and get a Staunching mod on it.
*Throw an Augment on your Quicksilver flask as well.

The next thing I notice is that you only have 178% increased life from tree. Necromancers can easily go for 200%+ on tree since they don't need that much damage from the tree to start with. You have A LOT of points invested in minion damage along with other random stuff. I would at the minimum spec out of Faith and Steel (generally a node taken by ES users, now Life MoM users) and grab the Devotion life nodes just below it (and grab the jewel socket on the way). You are also missing out on the 2 point jewel socket below, jewel sockets are MASSIVE for Summoners due to Abyss jewel stacking.

I think I know why your gear is so expensive to upgrade... you have maxed out to 75% Chaos resistance (most people unless going for a specific build don't go past much 0% since the game is balanced around that). Honestly speaking since your Chaos Resistance is already so high, I would straight up recommend getting a Xibaqua Glorious Vanity Timeless Jewel and slot it near a useless Keystone to gain the Divine Flesh keystone. For you, you can get the 3 point jewels near the Resolute Technique keystone to get the Divine Flesh keystone. If you are able to slot this jewel into your build then your tankyness will go up INSANELY HIGH.

If you are STILL having tankyness issues then I would recommend giving up the 2nd wand and get a shield. Then get a Shield Charge/Faster Attacks/Fortify set up going to have fortify and maybe also invest in getting a Rumy's Concoction flask for more armor and block chance. Maybe get a Guard skill like Steelskin/Molten Shell into your build somehow as well.

If you are still having issues then I would recommend getting some inspiration from PoE Ninja for builds that are similar to yours. I have filtered to show builds that use Skeletons, Shield builds with Rumi, MoM. There are even 3 Necromancers with Glorious Vanity slotted in them (with the above filters also enabled). Play around with the filters to see what other people are using successfully:

Sample build on POE Ninja
It took some uncomfortable sacrifices - lost 200 HP, 500 mana, and 700+ ES which tanked my overall eHP, but I built out to pick up the Glorious Vanity as you advised. I'm... not sure how I feel about it, yet. Only done a couple T15, and while I am not getting one-shot even with Vuln curse, I definitely feel more exposed and my life regen is abysmal which I will have to work on. I'm not sure my gear is quite ready yet, and I will need to look at dropping ES for raw armor during my next upgrade wherever it is possible. However, I did not notice any discernible DPS decrease (though PoB tells me it's a 5-10k loss), so that is very reassuring.

I am going to try a couple different seeds on the GV and hope that some of the passives work out in my favor, right now the majority of them are completely useless. I could continue to drop life nodes but that seems really dicey at this point. The next option would be to cut away another 40%+ minion DPS and free up an additional 7 points which seems too significant at this point with my lackluster weapons - though I could use them to grab the jewel slots as you suggested and that would help minimize some of the overall loss.

I have considered the shield option before, as Shield Charge looks like great fun. I will see if I can do it without too much additional investment to give it a shot later today. Either way, I am taking a hard look at my tree to see where else meaningful trade-offs could be made. Thank you for all of the help, I am realizing there really is no one "meta" build that fits all use cases, which is a huge difference coming off of D3 where it was very cut and dry.

Now for the generic questions:

*You kinda missed the early boat on crafting. Now we are in the mid to late game of the league and the crafting that is in demand is high end. Earlier on in the league you can craft some Jewels for profit that will sell if they have some life and two damage mods (or ES with two damage mods). High end crafting is mostly for rich boys and you have to be willing to gamble away loads of currency. Generally crafting is only really done to make gear for yourself even though 90% of the time it's cheaper to find stuff online, sometimes you want really specialized combination of affixes that the market isn't providing at a good enough price. Thing is that for you, you are using the 2nd most played build in the game right now (top build on SSF) so your items and upgrades will cost more on average than other builds and the higher you go the more the prices will skyrocket. Generally speaking, it's very difficult for you to craft gear that will be upgrade over what you have but the easiest way to get your feet wet is throwing some Bound fossils on some good minion focused bases.

*Vaaling maps on average is very profitable (you will almost always get back the Vaal you invested in the form of some other currencies) but you still need to be able to run them. You should specify which mods you have trouble with. If you are having trouble with stuff like Vulnerability curse mod then the aforementioned curse immunity flask can help greatly with that. Combined Vaaled maps with Sextants, Scarabs and maybe even Zana mods for more juice and returns. I wouldn't Vaal every map but my T15-T16s hell yeah. I would recommend first making some changes to make your build tankier and then try a few Vaaled maps to see how it feels.

*I would at least try to do T14 maps. The combination of higher map tiers as well as better base drops makes it far better to run them if you are able to. However if it's taking you too long to do them then there is no shame in running lower. Remember that you can sell maps and by this point you should be swimming in them, always list your unwanted high tier maps. If you can farm up a bulk of a specific type then you can charge a bit more. You probably need to read up on how to set up your maps to sell in bulk.

*Sirus lvl1 isn't very rewarding based on general consensus but Sirus lvl8 is VERY rewarding on average. Unless you play super often and your goal is to farm Sirus for currency, you don't really have much benefit to rushing Sirus.

*As far as end game currency gains tip goes... the best gains are done through acquiring smaller but higher quantity of currencies. All those 6 socket armor/weapon pick ups add up over time. Reliable currency is better than trying to bank on big ticket items. There is no real shortcut to gaining currency, you really just need to play a lot and efficiently. You shouldn't be spending too much time tinkering around with loot, whatever you get in a map you should dump in a Quad tab and then run the next map. Come back to the Quad tab after like 20-30 maps and then sort loot in search groups (you will find that it's easier and more efficient to do all at once rather than one at a time after every map). Always chisel your red maps, alch everything yellow and higher etc.

*For me Jun/Syndicate end up being very profitable. It's a very complicated system to get max gains out of but you can target specific stuff with it like IT the Fled in research head to get Pure Chayula breachstones which can sell for a lot. Scarabs are always sellable as well. Most Masters are great, I would say that you can just try to save up on Masters while running maps if you don't want to put time into them. Bank a bunch of the same time then chain run the same ones in a row. It's fine to skip Alva. Delve is always profitable as well and a nice break from mapping. Also don't underestimate prophecies, they can get you some nice stuff now and then.

As far as build to currency ratio goes... you are playing one of the best builds at that. This league is all about boss killing and Metamorph slaying for potential returns. Even big time mappers like Empyraen and Grimro have swapped from using fast mappers like Tornado Shot to Necromancer boss slayers because it's so profitable. Maybe Specters are better but it's not a massive jump. If you want a massive jump then look into the Strength stacking Zombie Necromancer builds that can get like 15+ ES with really fat Zombies. These builds do a ton of damage and are insanely survivable for their investment.

There are probably a million different tips I can give but I would focus on getting better defenses and then try your luck at the higher tier maps and bosses again.
Clear speed isn't a huge issue, it's mainly the fear of getting melted that slows me down. I intentionally stood in attacks (and next to a non-full-bar Metamorph) to test my surviability in T15 with vuln and it was mostly recoverable, though I am leaning on my flasks a lot more now which I suppose isn't the worst thing as long as I can be careful about having them topped off before a big encounter. When you say "level 1" regarding Sirus, is that the Awakened level you're talking about? I'm currently at 4 so I am not sure that I will even see the level 1 version if that's the case.

Already utilizing a quad tab to dump gear until it fills, but it still takes ages to go through it regardless. The game could really use some QoL features when it comes to managing loot/stash, even with a host of third-party add-ons it is not what I would regard as friendly in any way.

I will continue tinkering with it today to see if I can make the GV feel a little more comfortable and go from there - thank you again for all of your advice, it has been a huge help! This game is something else... the more I learn, the less I feel like I truly understand - it's a paradox that I haven't experienced in gaming in a very long time, maybe ever!
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,234
I forgot to mention that the main area where you are lacking is Physical damage mitigation. Normally Necromancer carry Basalt or Granite flasks and use a shield to cover that area (with Fortify support), you have none of those defenses which is why I recommended those (but don't bother getting armor nodes on tree). Good to see that you are at least tankier. If you somehow can get a Hunter chess with 15% of physical damage taken as Chaos damage then that would be a huge boost to your survivability.

As far as recovery goes, that's one of the weaknesses of Necromancer as you can't really rely as well on leeching or life gain on hits. Have to rely on life pots and life recovery. The ES Necromancers use Cyclone and get the ES% recovered on kill mods which works for mapping at least alongside ES recharge.

This game is something else... the more I learn, the less I feel like I truly understand - it's a paradox that I haven't experienced in gaming in a very long time, maybe ever!
2000+ hours here and I still learn something new every time I play the game!
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,231
USA
I play zombie necro,

Up to 15k EHP with 70 percent phys reduction and fortify, blind and taunt on hit. I feel very safe at this point, can link my PoB if needed. I always make sure to get bleed, freeze and curse immunity on flasks.
 

Izayoi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
816
Dahbomb One weird thing about that build you linked me specifically is that the guy has even lower life% from tree than I do, AND he's at -40% Chaos res. Not sure if there is an interaction I (or PoB) is missing, but that seems pretty dangerous. I dropped another 15k DPS for more jewel sockets and additional HP, and it has started to become noticeable (bosses/metamorphs take much longer to die, though trash is still plenty fast) - and STILL got melted during an abyssal rift encounter.

Going to pick up a shield and see how that does me...

I play zombie necro,

Up to 15k EHP with 70 percent phys reduction and fortify, blind and taunt on hit. I feel very safe at this point, can link my PoB if needed. I always make sure to get bleed, freeze and curse immunity on flasks.
That would be incredibly helpful, if you don't mind.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,231
USA
Dahbomb One weird thing about that build you linked me specifically is that the guy has even lower life% from tree than I do, AND he's at -40% Chaos res. Not sure if there is an interaction I (or PoB) is missing, but that seems pretty dangerous. I dropped another 15k DPS for more jewel sockets and additional HP, and it has started to become noticeable (bosses/metamorphs take much longer to die, though trash is still plenty fast) - and STILL got melted during an abyssal rift encounter.

Going to pick up a shield and see how that does me...


That would be incredibly helpful, if you don't mind.
Sure, please let me know if you have any questions. The DPS numbers are probably off, as this is a quick and dirty link that just shows passives/skills/gear, but this should give you an idea of how I've built my defenses.

I have had absolutely zero issues with DPS and morph bosses get melted (juiced T16 maps, though I'm on awakener 5). Zombie level and number of zombies is a huge help with this. I've got lvl 30 zombies and 16 total. I could go victario's influence for the chest, but I find that I never need the extra DPS and that the EHP/defensive layers are much, much more essential. My clear speed is good enough, still fast, just not zoom zoom like pure DPS oriented ones.

I feel like blind and taunt for minions are often overlooked (you can get both on one jewel) and provide even more layers for you.

I'm using Lunaris and Shakari for major/minor pantheons (Shakari seems to be a big help for this league in particular, make sure you unlock poison immunity).

 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,234
Dahbomb One weird thing about that build you linked me specifically is that the guy has even lower life% from tree than I do, AND he's at -40% Chaos res. Not sure if there is an interaction I (or PoB) is missing, but that seems pretty dangerous. I dropped another 15k DPS for more jewel sockets and additional HP, and it has started to become noticeable (bosses/metamorphs take much longer to die, though trash is still plenty fast) - and STILL got melted during an abyssal rift encounter.

Going to pick up a shield and see how that does me...

That would be incredibly helpful, if you don't mind.
Was just a random link.

Here are a few more (POB code, you can search for builds like these by filtering Necromancer, Vaal Skeletons, Mind over Matter, Glorious Vanity etc. on POE Ninja)

8500 HP with Saffels Flame

Ahns Heritage set up

Dual wield set up, closer to your build using Pain Attunement as slot for Timeless Jewel


Also I believe Surfinn's build is a strength stacking Zombie build which is highly specialized. You would have to change pretty much your entire gear for it.

That said I would double back up the recommendation of Taunt/Blind from Abyss jewels. Kinda assumed you already had it (maybe you did, didn't check that closely) but they are a pretty big deal.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,231
USA
Yeah, sorry, I assumed you were stacking strength Izamaru . I'm at about 1550 strength right now I think (if you're wearing The Baron as a helm, half of your strength also applies to your minions), one of my goals was to break 1500 to get that extra zombie (I'm pretty sure 1800/17 zombies/20k+ EHP is achievable, but that would require dipping into currency that I simply don't and will never have).

The beauty of stacking strength with this build though is that you're simultaneously increasing your DPS and EHP/defense/minion survivability like crazy, due to the body armor, gloves and helm.
 
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MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
920
Can I spawn a conquerer I want to try to get influence items from in an area I already have the watchstone in or does it have to be in an area I don't have the watchstone in yet?
 

Ganryu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
187
Hello,
Can someone explain me what maps are able to drop ? Now I have all four outer region with 4 gem and one inner region with 4 (20 watchstones)
I did about 5 random maps tier 14-15 and only got few low tier maps. Is it bad luck or am I doind somethint wrong?