Path of Exile 3.0+ |OT| To Oriath, Xbox Live, and Beyond

oakenhild

Member
Oct 27, 2017
514
I just can't get in to this league. Not really the Delirium mechanic specifically but the last 3-4 leagues or so I get all excited for the launch and then burn out almost immediately. Made it to act 6 with a Kinetic Bolt elementalist and I just... can't bring myself to keep going.
I've played for 30 hours (have tried maybe 3-4 leagues, not sure), and always stall out in the campaign (almost to act 3 now). Have never seen the endgame. I wish we could just jump to an endgame scenario (like diablo 3) as we level up. I've heard of maps, and have never seen them. The campaign just isn't very much fun.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,718
Burden Projection is surprisingly good. I know, the tendency is to look at knockback as useless or even detrimental, but you grab that node from a cluster jewel & then use a rapid-fire spell like Fire/Icestorm or Ball Lightning and enemies have a really hard time reaching you. It doesn't have the normal drawbacks that knockback would have for a spell build in that you don't need a specific non-ES piece of equipment or have to travel to the bottom part of the passive tree PLUS it has a decent chunk of damage (+30% spell damage) attached to it so you don't have to sacrifice much.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,294
Got to wave 17 or 18 of simulacrum. There's a boss there that seems impossible to kill, just has way too much ES and he recharges it often to full. There's probably a dumbass gimick that makes him manageable, wasted all my portals on him.
 

Greenpaint

Member
Oct 30, 2017
749
I'm not sure how mob/boss ES works in general, but ES recharge starts by default after not taking damage for 2 seconds. I also haven't seen the boss fight itself (does he go out of reach a lot, causing a recharge?), but I imagine Damage Over Time builds have an edge here.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,297
Will continue to say that they are feeling the time crunch of PoE2, and the three month schedule. I know Chris doesn't want to drop the three month schedule due to profitability, but they probably need to extend one of these leagues a month. Make another legacy type league that lasts a month longer in order to buy themselves some time. The league is salvageable, but I don't think they will be able to pull it off. Too much stuff has piled up on them, and it's likely they won't be able to address the core issues of the leagues for several weeks. By the time they can address the issues most of the player base will drop off.


Thought this was hilarious. Bestiary and Synthesis were among their most ambitious leagues and they flopped hard with players (Synthesis despite so much work being put into it got scrapped almost completely).

Delirium is still on its first week though so things can change.
Damn the curse of March leagues.

Edit:Also glacier, and burial chambers are two of the obvious T1 maps to run this league. The layouts are fantastic, and when you pump up mob density it's nuts.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,281
Texas
If they would just do a legacy league with minor to major improvement for existing content, that would be enough for many people. Consolidate overlapping mechanics, improve old ones that have fallen behind. Spend time improving the baseline instead of implementing something in 3 months on top of that other work.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,294
I'm not sure how mob/boss ES works in general, but ES recharge starts by default after not taking damage for 2 seconds. I also haven't seen the boss fight itself (does he go out of reach a lot, causing a recharge?), but I imagine Damage Over Time builds have an edge here.
I'm playing ED. He has an attack where he targets the ground with some kind of big laser and it insta recharges all of his ES when it starts.
If your DPS isn't massive you just can't beat him.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,718
If they would just do a legacy league with minor to major improvement for existing content, that would be enough for many people. Consolidate overlapping mechanics, improve old ones that have fallen behind. Spend time improving the baseline instead of implementing something in 3 months on top of that other work.
A reply from Bex sounds like PoE2 is going to be this:
"I think with Path of Exile 2 in sight it looks like we are taking this opportunity to overhaul a bunch of systems. I'm very wary of saying too much here but yes there are systems we want to rework and old content we want to remove. I've already seen in our plans that there are at least a couple of very old league mechanics that are likely to be retired."
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,699
Impossible for me to play today. Kept disconnecting me during loading screens in lab, and now I can't even get past character select.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,795
It fascinated me that they are so committed to keep Vaal side areas relevant - they’ve made three changes in the last year alone to make players run them (combining Vaal gems, Vaal areas in maps, and now Vaal areas being loot bonanzas). And yet none of the other old mechanics have any relevance at all and are completely untouched.

Spirits? War bands? Bloodlines? Beyond bosses? Invasions? Heck, essences are only semi useful now thanks to the massive nerd fossils just got and they could still be easily updated and compacted.

Just wonder why it’s Vaalside areas that keep getting the loving.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,795
As someone who wasn't around when Beyond was introduced, it makes zero sense lore wise or gameplay wise. I have no idea what its for other than occasionally some challenges. The bosses seem disconnected from everything else in the game and I have no clue who / what they are.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,718
Spirits? War bands? Bloodlines? Beyond bosses? Invasions? Heck, essences are only semi useful now thanks to the massive nerd fossils just got and they could still be easily updated and compacted.
Spirits got a nice upgrade in the temple. T2 Spirit room now adds a spirit to every room boss & the temple boss (not sure what T3 does). Gives you a nice little loot explosion in each room.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,023
Essences also got a boost during Synthesis during the short lived time they could be used on Fractured bases, but now that use of them no longer exists outside of Standard.
 

fulltimepanda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
537
As someone who wasn't around when Beyond was introduced, it makes zero sense lore wise or gameplay wise. I have no idea what its for other than occasionally some challenges. The bosses seem disconnected from everything else in the game and I have no clue who / what they are.
Nowhere near as heavy as the Vaal stuff but there are hints in the game that the old Gods had interactions with the Beyond.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
League "mechanics" that they should cut out//rework:

*Warbands: Keep them as bosses of the specific maps like they already are, remove all the Warband missions/modifiers/prophecies etc. Incorporate their uniques into the base game. I definitely do not care to see Warbands on Zana missions, who the hell even runs those?

*Bloodlines and Nemesis combined into a single mechanic and roll them into the base game. It's just buffed up rares/magic monsters. Then like make HH 100x rarer. I am so tired of prices of certain items fluctuating from 10C to 80C just because Nemesis makes it into Zanas map mods or not.

*Rogue exiles/Anarchy. Keep them in the base game as is, just don't put them as a Zana map mod because again, no one wants to run Rogue Exiles map mod. Beef up their drops because they just drop rares most of the time.

*Talismans. Completely remove from the game but keep the Rigwald unique items. Talismans as drops are garbage and clutter up the game even more. Some of those most wanted tier 3 implicits can be made into chase bases for amulets on the Atlas.

*Beyond they can keep but they should rework tit. Its definitely a popular mechanic. I want to see those uniques getting love/buffs (most of them are dog shit now), more "unique" bosses and monsters that aren't just red versions of existing mob types and also have some sort of end game progression that doesn't involve picking up splinters. Maybe if you kill a certain number of Beyond bosses, Zana gains the ability to open a special map/portal where you go into the Beyond world or something.

*Domination/Shrines/Tempests. It's fine as is. It's the easiest to understand mechanic and doesn't take away from the fun of mapping, in fact enhances. Just remove the invulnerability shrine, its garbage. In fact, remove all cases of "allies are invulnerable" mods from the game. Same for Tempest mechanic, however I want them to make it more clear what the specific Tempests do.

*Perandus. They should remove this from the game almost completely and remove the Perandus coins currency. Keep Cadiro but he sells stuff in Chaos value. Keep Perandus manor and the uniques of course that you can only get from Cadiro or from the map. Make the map drop more frequently so people can run it more often to go for the uniques they want. Cadiro either randomly comes in maps at the start or you can have him sit around in your hideout and his inventory refreshes every 10 or so maps. I generally like the idea of a roaming high value NPC merchant I just hate having a separate currency for it. Definitely remove it from the Zana pool.

*Invasion. Definitely never have it as a Zana map mod. The bosses can be added in as juiced up map bosses for future new maps they add to the game (which they almost certainly will after PoE 2 as they will have newer tilesets). I definitely do not need to be fighting them in maps.

*Torment. Torment should be rolled into Delirium if Delirium goes core. Similar mechanic where it affects existing content to buff it up and reward it more. They keep buffing the rewards from this and people still don't like it. Definitely do not have Sextants/Zana/prophecies related to it. Just because they may drop a billion Scarabs potentially doesn't make this a good mechanic. They can't seem to fix its AI as well.


Now come the more intricate leagues:

*Breach is awesome but it needs some QoL/rewards adjustment. Breaches should open quicker, be smarter about where they spawn if possible and the loots should be improved. Some of the uniques should be buff. There should be alternative ways to buff up Breachstones rather than just It that Fled. Changes to the splinter system would be welcome too.

*Harbinger is... fine I guess just too bright blue. They really should have expanded on its lore later on, maybe they still can. There should be a Harbinger boss put in to the Beachhead map so its not just a HH clown fiesta. The currency shard system is wack as fuck for lower tier currencies though, they need to remove that stuff so that there is less item clutter in the game.

*Abyss also needs some improved loot like Breach especially from the Abyss depths. These days like Breach it doesn't feel like its worth doing it. If they removed Abyss completely by incorporating the Jewels, the Belt and the uniques plus the boss fight into the base game in a different way I would be fine with that too.

*Bestiary. Definitely scrap the Menagerie completely, waste of time and space. Put the crafting system into the actual crafting bench in your hideout and there is no ritual sacrifice to waste your time on. Beast missions can still exist but I want to see more types of crafts available and the Beast bosses be more frequent. I would also rather not have to orb the beasts to sell their crafts so if they can change that system that would be great too.

*Delve is mostly fine these days I just wish there were like extra monsters around the Sulphite nodes in maps or some increased in quantity to the map. I also want more variety in Delve nodes, like a Metamorph node or other past league mechanics. Make the bosses more common please. Would also like more tilesets and monster types in there, gets very samey after a while.

*Incursions, have to play around with the current changes a bit more. Boss still sucks though.

*Synthesis, current implementation is fine... keep it as rare end game fights with chase uniques. Synthesis items were too broken to stay in the game IMO with a cluster fuck of a system to make them.

*Syndicate. I like that they keep updating it with new league mechanics. There should be a Blight scarab too though. I wish that killing Catalina didn't reset the board, that's just awful and makes players not want to fight her after working so hard to set up their boards. Please do something about the lag spike that occurs during an Intervention. Also rework the veil crafting system. My suggestion: There is no bar to fill for items and when you find an item, you unlock all 3 crafts that you get even if you select one to put on an item. Crafts you have unlocked before cannot appear again. There... veiled crafts system solved.

*Legion league. Perfect and should be in a Zana mod always. If they rework the splinter system then that should apply to Legion too because I dislike picking up splinters.

*Blight. Generally fine but I hate having to pick up oils and the annointment system is too core to the game. At least have slots for oils on existing bought tabs.

*Metamorph. Fine as is but again, I hate picking up Catalysts and not having a slot for them. Also dislike picking up organs.


Generally speaking I want there to be less league specific trinkets to keep picking up. I also want less intrusions, kinda sucks having to interact with panels mid maps when Incursions/Syndicate missions spawn.
 

Uthred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,012
I'd love if they added a new tab for "League shite that doesnt have another place", maybe they can come up with a more snappy title though
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
I'd love if they added a new tab for "League shite that doesnt have another place", maybe they can come up with a more snappy title though
That's generally what the Fragment tab is for. It houses Splinters, Emblems, Breachstones, Scarabs, map fragments etc. They are just super slow to expand it.

I also want there to be a centralized UI for all the extra league mechanics. The current UI system sucks, needs an overhaul.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,281
Texas
So many mechanics overlap or feel unrewarding.

Combine abyss and breach. Expanding circle with Zerg rush enemies, with a chance to enter a special domain with a chance at a boss. No more useless rings, add jewels and belts to the pool. Done.

Scrap Perandus. I don't even care if they keep Scamdiro or not, in my years of playing I've never gotten anything really worth a whole hell of a lot from the guy. Make him rarer and have him gift you a random item or some shit. Nothing would feel worse than finding a chase unique and getting it stolen while buying a set of coins you literally can't amass in a league.

Rogue exiles and warbands are... Ok? Unrewarding and uninteresting? Deemphasize or remove.

Tormented spirits... I always kill them instantly. Fuck em.

Temple... A big meh. Give me more control, and maybe I'm down to keep it.

Delirium will be cool if/when they fix it up. If they don't change it I won't miss it.

Essences need to be consolidated. Get rid of bad ones. Hell, combine them with fossils. They're the same shit.

Lab sucks and I can't think of a way to redeem it.
 

fulltimepanda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
537
Tempests don't really have a place in the game anymore tbh. They add very little - ooohhh you're in a circle where things drop identified! They were cool way back when the game was slower and they were mixing and matching different effects. Not so much these days where most mods don't mean much. Talisman and Perandus can also be booted.

Stuff like domination,ambush, torment and rogue exiles should just be part of the core game experience rather than distinct league mods like they are at the moment. I'd like to see them add potential value back into these systems. I enjoyed the game a lot more mechanically when people were doing stupid stuff like reverse knock cyclone vacuuming up the ghosts. Spending a heap of currency on strongboxes was good too.

Warbands definitely has the potential to be developed further into a more interesting system and I'd like to see them do just that. It feels like it was a precursor for the atlas influence type mechanics and even with the overlapping of effects I still feel could create an interesting league. If they keep it as they are, meh.

I'm not a huge fan of how beyond is used at the moment. Everyone just tries to stack it on maps and run quad beyond for the juice. PoE2 will hopefully make combat more methodical, so I'd like to see the beyond bosses mean something again. Same with the invasion bosses.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
Well as long as Vaal Winds gets to stay I am fine with removing all other Tempests.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,297
Need to redo my bleed bow tree, and grab the scion life wheel. I thought I could get away with 4k health in reds for a while, but Delirium is just too damn annoying. Was trying to just farm the regrets, but had a bad string of maps that pissed me off.
 

fulltimepanda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
537
Worst league for me performance wise for a long while. Wasn't an issue up until tonight where for some reason things just started to go haywire. Latency is largely fine.



I'm basically running into this on every map now, it's fucking ridiculous. I suppose on the otherhand I can see whats about to kill me now with all the stuttering.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
Damn these Delirious bosses are insane at high Delirious levels:



I ran into this thing a few times but usually the fog dissipated before I could kill it.

Also for those wondering, this boss has the Shavronne's mod where Chaos damage cannot by pass Energy Shield.


Now get this... his ES is 15% of his HP!
 
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Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
100% Delirious is 5 Delirious orbs which is the same as Wave 20 in Simulacrum FYI. Each wave in Simulacrum goes up by 5% (so 20x5 = 100).

I saw someone did 100% Delirious Phoenix with Ball Lightning mine and it took them forever to kill for 6 shards. Other people I have seen just straight up die 6 times in a row at the entrance. That said 20% Delirious is like reasonable as long as you get the reward type that you want. It's like adding 2 Sextants on a map and the numbers on the mobs aren't absurd.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,294
Damn these Delirious bosses are insane at high Delirious levels:



I ran into this thing a few times but usually the fog dissipated before I could kill it.

Also for those wondering, this boss has the Shavronne's mod where Chaos damage cannot by pass Energy Shield.


Now get this... his ES is 15% of his HP!
That's the boss I was talking about on the simulacrum. Insane damage and just tedious HP to bring down with ED.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
That's the boss I was talking about on the simulacrum. Insane damage and just tedious HP to bring down with ED.
I ran into this boss in maps as it spawned on the map boss. It was a regular Delirious encounter, I killed the map boss while it was under Delirium and just fought this boss for a while but then the fog dissipated before I could kill it. This was like low tier map though and my character was like early 80s back when it happened. Was really frightening as each hit was cleaving me for half HP and the boss room was very small so it was hard to dodge his stuff.
 

Rufus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
231
Germany
Worst league for me performance wise for a long while. Wasn't an issue up until tonight where for some reason things just started to go haywire. Latency is largely fine.



I'm basically running into this on every map now, it's fucking ridiculous. I suppose on the otherhand I can see whats about to kill me now with all the stuttering.
If you're up for an experiment, try setting ambient_sound_volume2 and sound_effects_volume2 to false in your production_config.ini. It's in the same folder as your item filters.
 

yagal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,875
I'm not a fan of this league, I have 5 delirium orb that I will probably try to sell to buy regret orb and continue fucking up, even more, my character. When the Devouring diadem will be 5 C will roll and Elementalist with all the Herald of the world.

But I really really like the cluster jewel, I spent to much time trying/buying them, changing my gear, trying interactions between uniques ( Farrul items fir the most part).

The base game is good but as other said it better, they need to streamline the game, too much useless shit and have the balls to do a longer dev cycle.

I'm currently hitting a wall with my character in yellow maps, I really don't know for how much time I will continue. I would have quit if it wasn't for the exiles in the guild
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
I'm not a fan of this league, I have 5 delirium orb that I will probably try to sell to buy regret orb and continue fucking up, even more, my character. When the Devouring diadem will be 5 C will roll and Elementalist with all the Herald of the world.

But I really really like the cluster jewel, I spent to much time trying/buying them, changing my gear, trying interactions between uniques ( Farrul items fir the most part).

The base game is good but as other said it better, they need to streamline the game, too much useless shit and have the balls to do a longer dev cycle.

I'm currently hitting a wall with my character in yellow maps, I really don't know for how much time I will continue. I would have quit if it wasn't for the exiles in the guild
FYI on the Path of Building LocalIdentity fork, the Cluster jewels are enabled already so you can experiment with them. Just make sure to have a back up of your POB character in case you do something that is impossible on jewels (like having two named notables on a Small cluster) because it might crash your POB.
 

yagal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,875
I have an exalt waiting for The Writhing Jar, Arakaali's Fang and Devouring Diadem

FYI on the Path of Building LocalIdentity fork, the Cluster jewels are enabled already so you can experiment with them. Just make sure to have a back up of your POB character in case you do something that is impossible on jewels (like having two named notables on a Small cluster) because it might crash your POB.
I have it installed already, will learn how to create jewels and play with them
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
7,998
The Delirium stacks just have a straight up 95% damage reduction on monsters rather than increasing their HP. This is relevant for certain things:

*Harder to reach your leech cap when you are dealing less damage.

*Corpse explosions do NOT scale because monster HP is still not that high, but the damage they take is considerably lowered. You can explode monsters for 100% of their HP and it would still tickle white mobs.


And yeah white monsters in T16 100% Delirium maps have like 10% of the HP of Shaper... It's probably overall harder than Delve Depth 3000 only there are far more variables in a map and difficult content to content with. Pretty much impossible to run without HH in a party, I think Empyrean even commented as such. Rewards are scaled up but not to the point where it's worth it for the average player to run.


Currently Ball Lightning mines have had the best success because they deal a metric ton of damage in an AOE. That and like min/maxed Impale Champion Cyclone builds. And all of them still take a while to clear the map and bosses. All this is going to do is GGG nerfs BL mines and Impale since they seemingly are doing content that no one else is capable of doing. I do have a Raider build with peak avoidance and good clear for Delirium but it caps at around 4-5 million DPS. That's not nearly enough when you need Shaper per second damage.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,281
Texas
What I'm reading here is that this content is overtuned to the point of idiocy, and there's no way they playtested it with reasonable gear. The amount of DPS required to kill even early red bosses at the end of long levels is STUPID and only achievable by the absolute meta builds, which is terrible game design.

This league is in desperate need of rebalancing. Having white mobs with HP that can be effectively quantified in Shaper fractions is absurd, not even considering the truly idiotic, what-the-fuck-were-they-thinking dozens of shapers for regular boss encounters in Delirium maps. They've scaled this seemingly accessible content to the levels that only 5 deep delve teams could achieve. Even the most optimized players are targeting yellows for full juicing.

They fucked this up big time and I refuse to believe this was properly tested.
 
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Dahbomb

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
7,998
What I'm reading here is that this content is overtuned to the point of idiocy, and there's no way they playtested it with reasonable gear. The amount of DPS required to kill even early red bosses at the end of long levels is STUPID and only achievable by the absolute meta builds, which is terrible game design.
It's hard to say what their design goal was.

If their goal was to have something to the equivalent of high end Delve content available in maps then they succeeded in that. It might be overtuned from a DPS perspective on that front. That said I think this content is far more difficult than anything in Delve simply because a ton of Delirium mechanics cannot be countered by anything in the game and they also make hard existing content exponentially harder (imagine doing Legion encounter with Legion general spawning on 100% Delirious T16 maps with double Beyond).

If the goal was for Delirium to essentially act like extra sextants/juice on a map then it's ridiculously overtuned. And for the average player the risk/reward are some of the worst ever (imagine killing a boss who has the equivalent health of 10 A8 Awakeners and be rewarded with 6 shards).


Feels like another Developer Manifesto is in order addressing Simulacrum and 5 Orb Delirium maps. Mostly because we don't really know what their actual design goal was with these. Tarkecat seems to think that the content is designed in a way that it's like a survival/horde mode... you generally see how far you can get before you have to exit out. You aren't supposed to always beat top end Delirium % or Simulacrum.
 

Xeteh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,725
Its kind of crazy how hard delirium can be even just going through the acts. Its really depressing running in to one of those dudes that stun constantly that take forever to kill. Plus it feels far more rippy than previous leagues have. If Metamorph was too hard you could use shittier quality parts to play it safe.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,281
Texas
My only solace right now is that every avenue of feedback is hugely negative, which is deserved for the content (and game, specifically related to performance, visibility, and balance driven by the .01% or clearspeed meta) in its current state.

This is my favorite game. I spend money regularly because I enjoy it so much. They need to hear the feedback they have been getting for a few leagues in a row, now. They are stretched too thin, and it's hurting the game. Slow down, fix some shit. Stop forgetting normal players already.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,294
I don't take much issue with the difficulty. The backtracking is making my map clear time extremely long.
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
7,998
Probably doesn't help that they snuck in a "do you guys even have loot filters" type comment when talking about Delirium in maps. I mean that's just a whole another can of worms right there.

What am I doing wrong then... Weird.
Archmage doesn't work on traps/mines if you are trying to do Ball Lightning mines.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,795
Ball Lightning actually sounds quite fun to play - but I have zero interest in a mines build. Currently playing ED Trickster which is a lot of fun but not exactly great on bosses...