This particular story would've been avoidable if America had a healthcare system that made sense.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Patton oswalt donate to help pay medical bills of guy trolling him on twitter and prompts others to do the same
- Thread starter Woozies
- Start date
- Status
Nobody is saying to give a blowjob to everyone punching down. This guy was clearly punching up, though, and Patton showed that compassion might change more hearts and minds than more blind scornful rhetoric.
But you do you. I'm just commenting on how I viewed the situation.
This thread has become a case study in that Nietzsche quote about "when fighting monsters be careful not to become a monster yourself".
If I was a conservative douche bag looking for evidence that the left can be just as cold, unfeeling and willing to sacrifice their true values just to notch a win in the "culture wars", this thread would be a goldmine.
Remember what you're really fighting for.
Maybe I am more sensitive at the moment because I am currently hospitalised after having my breastbone totally cracked open to remove a tumour, but it's a real dose of perspective.
I have no idea of the political ideology of the fellow patients in my ward and it doesn't matter. We are all just people feeling very vulnerable in pain and undignified and probably a little scared, we have family who are worried about us and depend on us.
We all deserve to be treated well and sent home, regardless of what we believe.
If I was a conservative douche bag looking for evidence that the left can be just as cold, unfeeling and willing to sacrifice their true values just to notch a win in the "culture wars", this thread would be a goldmine.
Remember what you're really fighting for.
Maybe I am more sensitive at the moment because I am currently hospitalised after having my breastbone totally cracked open to remove a tumour, but it's a real dose of perspective.
I have no idea of the political ideology of the fellow patients in my ward and it doesn't matter. We are all just people feeling very vulnerable in pain and undignified and probably a little scared, we have family who are worried about us and depend on us.
We all deserve to be treated well and sent home, regardless of what we believe.
Last edited:
Besides the fact that this wasn't purely a issue of belief but the fact that he was harassing Oswalt, let me bring up my earlier post:
This whole meme of trying to reframe the symptoms of a heavlily flawed society as inspirational is dumb.
Dystopia framed as inspiration and that's actually horrifying...
Yes?
This is a man who in order to get medical treatment needed to harass the right charitable celebrity in order to be able to afford it.
And it's framed as a feel good story.
You know, if there weren't literally thousands of others who could have used that $50,000 stupid people have paid to a racist piece of shit (remember, he only needed $5k), I don't think anyone here would have cared about this asshole getting a year's wage for being a terrible person.
You're another person who took this at face value without bothering to look in to the implications of what happened here. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
There is different ways to read or take from a story. I think the general sentiment of the OP and original story was just to highlight an act of kindness and charity.
Of course, you guys in the US unfortunately have to deal with a nightmare healthcare system, but to frame Patton Oswald paying off a random trolls medical bills as dystopian seems crazy to me.
There is a tendency in this forum to take what are extremely minor things and events and then escalate them to very extreme examples. A lot of posters are seeing this as racism being rewarded or white supremacy in action and I am just ???
More pseudo intellectual bullshit designed to encourage the coddling of known bigots because "good people and bad people are exactly the same."
I'm Canadian. I'm saying the feel good, inspirational framing of the story is dystopian.
And I mean if the man hadn't been a racist/bigot who decided to troll/harass Oswalt he would never have gotten funding.
It is in a way a direct result of his racism/bigotry that he is getting treatment. Instead of just simply getting treatment because health care is a right.
I really don't give a fuck what conservative douchebags think of me, they can eat shit and die for all I care.
bigots have rejected their humanity when they chose to be bigots
A conservative douche bag would want me and my friends dead or as good as dead. I cannot really care about what they perceive, let alone for some absolutely fictional situation as you've just described.
I'm fighting to survive, but I sure don't see Patton sending people my way to drop me a couple grand. I do believe there is something to the idea of 'killing with kindness', however, there are people far more deserving of having willing donors sent their way than a racist bigot. That people in here are more willing to condemn those worried more for the suffering of non-shitty people is deeply distressing.
We know you like to lecture people about coddling bigots.
It's literally life and death for minorities but we're monsters 'cause we're sick of white bigots getting rewarded for being cunts.
I'm sick of white cultural bullshit reinforcing itself. I'd rather not engage with it tbh.
went through the bro's twitter, he's a hateful old man. get where patton oswalt was coming from but jesus christ this dude sucks.
Geez you have to really want it to read my post that way.
I live in a country with socialised healthcare and am currently recovering from a thoracic procedure that would cost 650,000 in the US. Everyone in this ward is treated with fundamental decency and care with zero regard as to their ethnicity, class, means, disability, gender etc. It's freaking beautiful. This system is the crowning achievement of Australian democracy IMO and I would just about die to protect it.
My point is merely that if you truly believe in an ideology of a medical system that protects everyone equally, you should naturally avoid ANY argument about the relative "worthiness" of any particular individual. Lest you leave yourself open to suggestions that your fundamental values are applied/discarded at your political convenience. And as fucking exhausting and unfair as it is, I do feel that progressives have to hold themselves to higher standard than their opposition. It's the price you have to pay for being right.
It IS possible to hold the belief that bigots are pieces of shit while still believing that a major measure of a society is how it treats the worst of us.
I am not sure where the stuff about me lecturing people on coddling bigots comes from. At the risk of sounding like Roseanne, maybe the endone and lack of sleep is making me communicate poorly but I certainly didn't feel like I was taking a "both sides" angle with what I posted. Sorry if it came across that way. It wasnt meant to be a thorough dissection of all the various angles and issues in this story and was more intended as a stream of consciousness rant about the need to be fundamentally consistent when advocating for healthcare as a basic right for all, pieces of human shit included.
Is it frustrating to see others ignored while this dude acts like a total flog and hits the jackpot? Totally. But the real issue for me is that no one should be in that position of waiting for a miracle rather than having a basic human right fulfilled. The discussion of relative "worthiness" is one that progressives would do well not to delve into IMO.
I absolutely acknowledge that this story is also unfortunately another example of "area white man thrown lifeline by rich white man". I'm not out to dispute that angle at all.
Edit: finally had a look at the dude's Twitter. He's a textbook cunt. No surprise,
Last edited:
Honestly mate I don't wanna make a value judgment on ya. I get what youre saying. Im thankful everyday for our system.
America needs to take care of its people regardless of who they are. I doubt anyone is arguing against it.
Racists are frequently rewarded and given power over minorities. Too often we're lectured about being too mean or confrontational while racists get all the understanding in the world.
It's really frustrating to see people huff their own farts over donating to some arsehole who would vote against the very thing that would help them.
Yall clutch your pearls at us but it's not like we have any power here. Dudes still 30 grand richer and I'm still a nigger 🤷🏿♂️
Completely understand that reaction even if I can't completely relate to your experience (and it would be insulting to say that I could).
Absolutely nobody in this thread is arguing that he shouldn't have access to good healthcare, and they certainly aren't arguing that his bigotry should disqualify him from being given medical care if we were to suddenly get a system that covers everyone. Every person in this country, from genuinely good people to pieces of shit like the KKK should have access to a good healthcare system.
It's perfectly possible to hold that belief while criticizing how Patton Oswalt spent his money because charity is not a replacement for a universal healthcare system. There's no hypocrisy there because there's a huge difference between thinking "Every citizen should have healthcare provided by the government" and "We should pay the medical bills of the biggest shitheads who just happen get our attention."
And seriously, how were you not trying to pull the "both sides" schtick? Your post with the Nietzsche quote hit the ground running and never stopped.
Well I saw at least one post that said something along the lines of "why save this guy who is just going to vote for GOP candidates who oppose proper healthcare etc".
The Nietzsche reference was my way of saying "these right wing fucktards are the ones who believe that some people deserve life more than others... we are better than that and fucked if I am going to drag myself down to their level".
Seems like that reference didn't effectively communicate that to multiple people which is regrettable. Anyway I have unintentionally spawned a level of anger/vitriol that I unfortunately don't currently have the mental or physical stamina to spend all day trying to defuse so I'll just have to swallow whatever I cop from here on.
Last edited:
Yep! Love for everyone to get free healthcare; even assholes. UNFORTUNATELY we do not have that system; and so I'd rather see non-assholes taken care of first if we're donating to individuals.
It also upsets me that this dude's medical bills have been taken care of MANY times over, yet people are still donating mindlessly at this point as some sort of; 'We can change this asshole!' Like you'd think the first $5k would have been sufficient and that these people with these free resources would take it upon themselves to find more people to donate to. And even if their entire philosophy is only donating to assholes, at least find a different asshole to donate to.
It's a whole bunch of crappy things about our society rolled into one. Celebrity worship, in-debt because of medical care, bigoted white male being revered, holier than thou they go low we go high bullshit that only helps racists, 'I can change him' beliefs, ignoring/shaming minorities when they have actual concerns, bandwagon donating. Like if you can legitimately look at all this and somehow see a feel good story you've got blinders on. Sorry but that's the truth. None of this is good.
It also upsets me that this dude's medical bills have been taken care of MANY times over, yet people are still donating mindlessly at this point as some sort of; 'We can change this asshole!' Like you'd think the first $5k would have been sufficient and that these people with these free resources would take it upon themselves to find more people to donate to. And even if their entire philosophy is only donating to assholes, at least find a different asshole to donate to.
It's a whole bunch of crappy things about our society rolled into one. Celebrity worship, in-debt because of medical care, bigoted white male being revered, holier than thou they go low we go high bullshit that only helps racists, 'I can change him' beliefs, ignoring/shaming minorities when they have actual concerns, bandwagon donating. Like if you can legitimately look at all this and somehow see a feel good story you've got blinders on. Sorry but that's the truth. None of this is good.
I feel with that guy, blood poisening/sepsis is fucking horrible. Reading his description felt like a throw back. (Those memories always get the better of me.)
As a survivor I do understand why it may leave people gritty. Life feels unfair, random and why had it to be me? Especially with an unknown cause.
This does not excuse bad behaviour, but unless you have experienced it, maybe you shouldnt be too fast with your judgement.
The amount of money he asked for is ridiculous low. I had full insurance, they had paid everything for us, yet it came down to like 3.000 Euro extra costs. Given that he had to pay most of it himself (that's how you sum up americas health system) a goal of 45.000 is ridiculous low. Even appendix removal was about 125k in the us, wasnt it?
As a survivor I do understand why it may leave people gritty. Life feels unfair, random and why had it to be me? Especially with an unknown cause.
This does not excuse bad behaviour, but unless you have experienced it, maybe you shouldnt be too fast with your judgement.
The amount of money he asked for is ridiculous low. I had full insurance, they had paid everything for us, yet it came down to like 3.000 Euro extra costs. Given that he had to pay most of it himself (that's how you sum up americas health system) a goal of 45.000 is ridiculous low. Even appendix removal was about 125k in the us, wasnt it?
Last edited:
You're right it doesn't excuse bad behavior - but yet you are trying to say his racist behavior should be excused because we shouldn't judge??? Like, illness doesn't make people racist. I'm not sure why society will find ANY excuse to explain away racist behavior. From ambien to economic anxiety to illness to fear. Well it's okay if POC are villified and made to feel less than and killed because this white person had XYZ in their life and so we need to hug them more and donate to them and make them feel better about themselves and maybe next time they won't victimize someone. Meanwhile the people they've already hurt - well let's not listen to them, let's not care about their needs, the deed has already been done, let's not bother to help because they are already good people and they will survive. THIS RACIST however, well, we can't let him feel any pain or suffering, gotta make sure he's taken care of, and maybe, just maybe if we all clap our hands and believe in fairies we can change him!
Sick. Of. It!
let's give more than a week before we declare him a changed man
As I said, its difficult to understand the situation when you havent been in it yourself. You clearly aren't even trying.
Maybe he was a racist asshole before too, it does not matter because now people have the chance to change his view and they do.
I dont excuse anything, I am just saying you shouldnt judge someone without walking a day in their shoes.
And trust me: You dont want to experience what he did, nobody does. And he had been incredibly lucky, or the aftermath isnt totally summed up yet. Both possible.
Except, even in the situation you're hand-wringing over, we're still better than that, because one side is saying "I don't believe this person who has chosen to be hateful and aggressively in opposition to treating other human beings as people deserves special treatment as a direct result of his bigoted behavior," and the other side is saying "These particular human beings shouldn't be treated as human beings because of who they are through no choice of their own." If you're seriously claiming these two things are equivalent, well...that's a you problem, I guess.
You're absolutely right and this is a very wise perspective. I don't want to presume anything about your condition, but I've been in a similar boat with serious medical issues and came out the other side SUCH a better person. So much more humble, empathetic, appreciative and just aware of the human condition in totality. I can't say I wish everyone could experience it.... but the world would undoubtedly be a better place if they could.
You think I don't understand illness or what sick people go through? IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU RACIST FOR FUCKS SAKE! But keep telling minorities they should walk a mile in a racists shoes and get to know them. Why is it always up to us to do the work and heavy lifting? Do you see how wrong that is; and why JUST MAYBE that we'd be upset by the suggestion that we're just not trying hard enough to understand? But I guess nobody cares to try and understand MY point of view; like just shame me and call me an asshole because I'm not trying hard enough to get to know my oppressors. Sure sure, great, wonderful world we've got here.
I don't think they are equivalent. I think as a teacher though I have a pretty sociological bent and think that unfortunately a lot of bigots are "created" by shitty bigoted parents etc too. The amount of times I see ignorant 12 year old kids with zero life experience or critical thinking skills parrot the conservative, backwards shite that their parents have inculcated them with. I experience a lot of emotions in regards to that, and pity is often in that mix.
And then social media enables them to carve out a little echo chamber that comfortably reinforces these ideas and filters out or distorts the opposing arguments and evidence.
Some of them never have a chance or the skills to think themselves towards a more critical, caring, open-minded world view. I despair.
Last edited:
See, if you're white, you can feel pity, be sad for them not being enlightened and move on. If you're a minority, you get to fear that they're going to kill you or make it so you spend your life in the dirt or prison. That or someone you love gets to pay. That guy spent 40+ years contributing to the destruction of what he deemed as lesser people. I want to have universal healthcare as much as anyone, but you tell me why he deserves 50k when so many others are suffering so much more at this very moment.
It's not about understanding an illness, but the psychological effect it has on you. Unless you have been through you wont understand.
But yeah, I also dont think you understand sepsis because it very well can "turn you" into a racist. (Which I dont think it did in this case, but it is possible.)
If you want to keep discussing this, stop yelling at me and get back your good manners.
An excellent point. Only thing I can reply with (and it's a small point) is that I do try to do more than "move on". I try to do the character education thing, challenge their notions and expose them to alternative points of view as much as my profession allows (sometimes a little bit more). It's tricky sometimes, there is a real "teachers are filling our kids' heads with lefty SJW rubbish instead of teaching them math" crusade going on at the moment with a lot of parents. Again, I despair.
Yeah definitely don't think he deserves 50k. That's fucking ridiculous. Big test of character on the guy to see if he pays it forward. I won't hold my breath.
Last edited:
It surprises you that an illness that may totally change your personality due to impact on the brain can turn you into a racist?
And I thought that's common sense.
/Edit: It'd work the other way too btw.
He's going to keep every last cent he gets and continue to be a racist bigot. Mark my words. But our fee-fees feel good
Look. Sepsis can cause brain damage, but it doesn't cause racism. That shit had to be there already. It can cause fear, paranoia, etc., but that doesn't equate to a sudden hatred of liberals and people of color. That shit is learned behavior. Even then, it doesn't excuse the behavior and suddenly make it ok. My grandma was pretty damn racist and was less able to hold it in as she aged. I didn't give her a medal for it.
Their opinions may change drastically, for reasons we dont understand. (And cant understand because they just make sense to them.) I got an aunt who was very angelic and empathic too, then she got Alzheimerz andnow she's a causal racist. Some illnesses change our personalities drastically. (Or maybe that tells us something about racists brain capacity?)
Sepsis rarely comes alone and means that the brain barrier has been passed in one way. Meningitis often comes along with it, and meningitis can cause drastic (and I mean really drastic) personality changes. For good and for bad. Sadly the post sepsis depression usually impacts heavily here.
It is not relevant for this case, as i said earlier, because this clearly hasnt happened.
I never said that racist behaviour should be excused, you need to understand where it comes from.
Then why are you constantly bringing it up and muddying the waters here if not to troll? Maybe drop it?
And yeah telling minorities to keep trying to understand their oppressors isn't going to fly. It should not be our job to do that when they've already got their full weight on us.
Your aunt literally probably had those ideas in her and either tried to fight them or kept them to herself. There's no way a 4 year old gets sepsis and comes out of it slinging hate against people of color. Again, all that shit is learned. There is no part of racism that is innate in us outside of a fear for the unfamiliar. I have never met a racist child unless they learned it somewhere. Disease can bring out the worst in us, but it doesn't create hatred for another species out of thin air.
You can "forget" how to walk. So you can "forget" how to be empathic. Permanent damage can be left by sepsis in different brain areas, this has consequences in different aspects of life such as long/short term memory etc.
If you are young, that's no biggy. Your brain is growing and will compensate. At older age the damage is not self repairing (as much).
I dont see why we need to discuss this, as personality changes are there and dont need to be argued over.
Nobody is giving anyone a free pass, as I said you need to understand where it comes from.
You claimed Aepsis cant turn someone into a racist. You claimedyou know what you talk about (Sepsis). I just clarifiedthat both statements are false.
The patient in question clearly had no meningitis nor was I saying he did I just pointed out that sepsis very well may cause personality changes which end up with racist traits.
I still stand that he deserved the 5k he got, whether the 45k is deserved is up to each individual to decide but its still nothing compared to the cost he has had.
Last edited:
Forgetting how to be empathetic doesn't make you racist. That would mean you have a disregard for everyone. That's not what racism is. Racism is literally the disenfranchisement and oppression of a group of people based solely on the color of their skin or race. Again, that shit is learned, not innate in any person. Disease can not create knowledge that has to be learned to exist in the first place.
It's like saying that sepsis could suddenly give you the knowledge to do a 1080 spin on a skateboard. It's physically not possible. Yes, sepsis can make you forget how to walk, but it will never give you that knowledge if you never had it.
Sounds like if anything, Alzheimer's made her less capable of hiding her racism. Pretty sure she was already plenty racist before any illness.
Diseases affecting the mind don't make people racist, but they do affect impulse control.
- Status