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Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
Honestly this seems like a decent solution to the issue.

People need an outlet for frustrations like this and user reviews are an effective way for a collective response to a grievance.

However as it technically has not really got anything to do with the game as a product, it's right that it doesn't affect user score.

This way companies still have to see the anger such things elicit but is mitigated to a point. It's a far better solution than mass deletion or silencing of user reviews.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
NYC
I'd argue that having the game and likely future content at some point yanked from Steam is content of the game.

The practice is ridiculous when it's over something like Jax getting rid of slavery, but this is a tool that should be reserved for stuff like that.
Nah dude, not what reviews are for. If you buy it on steam you'll have access to future stuff. They're just moving the store you can buy it on. You think they're gonna cut off 90% of their player base from any future content? Did they say that's what they were doing maybe I'm completely wrong, let me know.
 

Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,603
People are naive of they think Epic isn't removing RL from Steam. Their response of no plans currently just means they haven't announced it yet lol. Epic will wait for a large expansion pack or some other significant update before doing it, and I wouldn't be surprised if the new DLC is only purchasable on EGS for those who already own the Steam version before the inevitable removal from Steam.
 

Arulan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,571

No, their response is anything but clear. You can't make that claim.

I'd agree if the majority of protests I see online were actually about their business practices. The most common reasoning I see is that people don't want to use EGS and they only want Steam to exist.

That's highly disingenuous at best. The arguments against the Epic Games Stores aren't driven from a desire to see Steam as the only choice.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
It's cheap and petty, but it is obviously effective. Look at how it makes headlines everywhere. Look at how we have threads on this all the time now. I'm glad people are voicing their opinion. We live in a society where large corporations don't think the people should have any sort of power. They thought wrong. We are strong. And we never forget.

Gamers. Fucking. Rise.
I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but did you just "Gamers rise up" to this?

Okay!
 
Discussion Guidelines

ColdSun

Together, we are strangers
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,292
Official Staff Communication
Given the volatility in recent Epic Game Store related threads we have decided that some clearer guidelines are required to cultivate healthier discussion.
  • Do not enter these threads in bad faith. If we conclude that your goal is to misrepresent the concerns of other users or rile people up, you will be moderated. Intent matters here. Honest questions or commentary about the differences and similarities between the Epic Games Store and other storefronts are fine. Deliberately and dismissively attempting to troll concerned members on those topics is not okay. These discussions must be held in good faith and in a civil manner.
  • As a reminder, antagonizing or engaging in personal attacks on other members is still against the rules. We have a large community with a wide range of preferences and personal priorities. Not everyone will feel the same way as you do on any given topic. If you feel a post is breaking a rule please report it and do not respond with hostility. If you choose to engage do so politely. We always check to see which users have a history of trouble in this area.
  • It is perfectly acceptable to want to wait for a game to be released on the storefront of your preference (ex: "I'll just wait for the Steam release.") It is not acceptable to troll threads because of storefront exclusivity timed or otherwise (ex: "So the real PC release is going to be a year later.") The latter is needlessly inflammatory and distracts from discussion. We will be scrutinizing these posts more closely going forward.
  • Do not advocate, defend, or admit to piracy under any circumstances. This is explicitly against our Terms of Service. There are no justifications that will make this acceptable.
Addendum: It's fine and often healthy to be critical of media coverage (ex: "I don't think this article is good and here's why"), but please avoid going down any rabbit holes with excessive vitriol and conspiracy theories (ex: "This outlet is clearly paid off because I don't agree with their coverage"). We've long had a general policy against hyperbolical vilification of the media and that rule has not been suspended.
 

MegaXZero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 21, 2018
5,079
It seems Valve has implemented an effective anti review bombing strategy, which is my main takeaway here.
Yup.

Article is full of it though saying Epic never said they'd remove the game from steam. The initial press release's wording was definitely implying it, something Eurogamer noted.
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
Honestly this seems like a decent solution to the issue.

People need an outlet for frustrations like this and user reviews are an effective way for a collective response to a grievance.

However as it technically has not really got anything to do with the game as a product, it's right that it doesn't affect user score.

This way companies still have to see the anger such things elicit but is mitigated to a point. It's a far better solution than mass deletion or silencing of user reviews.

I'm not opposed to the solution, I just think it's being used in a case where it shouldn't. I listed a case where I thought it would be appropriate. It should mostly be used as a tool against chuds review bombing games. Not for complaints against the business model, to me those should be fair game, though Valve disagrees. Valve tends to have a few yikes takes, though I think they do take actions well enough of a community moderation level, so I expect this is a philosophical tech-bro thing on Valve's part.



The effectiveness of the anti-reviewbomb tech is going to depend on what percentage of the paying userbase keeps it on. That's going to depend on the popularity of decisions, though inertia will carry a good bit of weight. We're probably never going to see sales figures. Stardock was a company that showed the effects of review-bombing when GalCiv 3 got review-bombed (forget why exactly they got bombed) . I suspect this is why the system came into being, it was effective, and Valve probably loses money a bit from lost sales (I don't think they lose much , as people buy other stuff instead).
 
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phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
Pretty cool that the system actually works.. I wonder how blatantly off topic the review needs to be to be flagged by steam.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
Protesting Epic's business practices has absolutely nothing to do with brand loyalty.
And review bombing isn't a legitimate form of protest, it's a childish and frankly pathetic attack on the hard work of developers on a false pretense. Anyone who defends it should really be ashamed of themselves
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,426
Dang, the bans are flying fast and furious in here. Y'all need to chill.

That's not to say that review bombing isn't serious- it is, and Psyonix doesn't deserve this kind of thing.
 

raketenrolf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,211
Germany
Very depressing that awesome hidden gems on steam like Elena Temple, Venture Kid and Space Mouse will almost certainly be buried forever on PC because of that, with console ports as their only hopes.
They are probably hidden gems because they are what they are. They are looking like every second Indie game looks like today so I don't see how more coverage would help them much since there are literally thousands of games that look the same on a first impression. And that first impression is important.
 

BlueOdin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,014
SHAME on gamers doing this. This is why we will never be taken seriously as a medium. They are DOZENS of ways to voice your discontent, but reviewbombing is a WEAK, CHEAP and STUPID. I have zero respect anybody doing that, you're just a coward ! I've seen some of the new "reviews" on steam, it looks they've been made by a 5 years old... This seems this industry wants to remain an eternal teen.

I mean, you use the most effective way to protest things people don't like. We currently have pupils protesting against governments for their inactivity regarding actions against climate change in Europe during the time they should be in class. Politicians demand them doing it outside of schooltime and they would take them seriously. Should the pupils comply to a time that is more easily ignored?
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
Important note:

Valves new System of combating Review-bombing means that, in the end, the game will have a BETTER overall score.
(because there are always users who do the opposite and review the games positively (more than normal) in the timeframe where the bombing happens. Valve will exclude the negatives and not the positives, so that there will be a positive outcome in the end.)
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,750
There's no doubt in my mind they're pulling it from Steam

It's just a slow list of staggered announcements, they don't want to burn their existing Steam sales.
 

MegaXZero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 21, 2018
5,079
Important note:

Valves new System of combating Review-bombing means that, in the end, the game will have a BETTER overall score.
(because there are always users who do the opposite and review the games positively (more than normal) in the timeframe where the bombing happens. Valve will exclude the negatives and not the positives, so that there will be a positive outcome in the end.)
Not quite. Valve removed the time period. All reviews during that period don't count.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
I mean, you use the most effective way to protest things people don't like. We currently have pupils protesting against governments for their inactivity regarding actions against climate change in Europe during the time they should be in class. Politicians demand them doing it outside of schooltime and they would take them seriously. Should the pupils comply to a time that is more easily ignored?
Jesus. Imagine really believing there is any equivalence between protesting against the destruction of the climate and falsely reviewing and defaming a piece of art because you dislike an unrelated action by it's developer. Some people involved in this really have an overinflated sense of the importance of what they're doing.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
SHAME on gamers doing this. This is why we will never be taken seriously as a medium. They are DOZENS of ways to voice your discontent, but reviewbombing is a WEAK, CHEAP and STUPID. I have zero respect anybody doing that, you're just a coward ! I've seen some of the new "reviews" on steam, it looks they've been made by a 5 years old... This seems this industry wants to remain an eternal teen.
i mean, somebody's definitely coming off as immature here, but I don't think it is who you think it is
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
"look at us review bombing your games on Steam to convince you to stay on Steam"

Yikes! Review bombing is really pathetic.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,426
I mean, you use the most effective way to protest things people don't like. We currently have pupils protesting against governments for their inactivity regarding actions against climate change in Europe during the time they should be in class. Politicians demand them doing it outside of schooltime and they would take them seriously. Should the pupils comply to a time that is more easily ignored?

That's not a good equivalence. Climate change is a lot more serious than this. C'mon.
 

BlueOdin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,014
Jesus. Imagine really believing there is any equivalence between protesting against the destruction of the climate and falsely reviewing and defaming a piece of art because you dislike an unrelated action by it's developer. Some people involved in this really have an overinflated sense of the importance of what they're doing.

Yes because I said that both are equally important. Some are really out of their mind.

But since you overread the first sentence of my post: You choose the avenue that is most effective and gives you the most attention to the protest

I hope that clears it up for you. Two times is the charm they say.

That's not a good equivalence. Climate change is a lot more serious than this. C'mon.

Are you guys willfully ignorant to say I said a game platform is as important as climate change.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,841
time to bring my take, which i am sure will get me quoted multiple times, but whatever.
IMO, this acquisition is a direct answer to people getting frustrated with epic moneyhatting games off stores "without any legitimacy to do so", that was an undertandable argument, even the developers had no say on the matter as most of the deals were handled between the epic and publisher.
However, this acquisition deal means that the developer believes this is the better choice and by buying them, epic got "the right" to only release future games on their store. It is basically a move away from money hatting titles and instead making epic itself bigger and have more output of their own to challenge steam.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
Yes because I said that both are equally important. Some are really out of their mind.

But since you overread the first sentence of my post: You choose the avenue that is most effective and gives you the most attention to the protest

I hope that clears it up for you. Two times is the charm they say.
No, sorry, don't back off your statement after making it. You drew the comparison, and it's a ridiculous comparison. Defaming people's art on a false basis is in no way comparable to protesting the destruction of the environment.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
I'd agree if the majority of protests I see online were actually about their business practices. The most common reasoning I see is that people don't want to use EGS and they only want Steam to exist.


It's almost as if people dont want to use EGS because of their business practices.

I dont see CDPR games being review bombed for Gwent being a GOG exclusive for exemple.
 

Vault

â–² Legend â–²
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,616
PC Gamer are basically Epic PR now, hard to take them seriously anymore
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
Yes, climate change is much more important, but that doesn't mean that you can't protest other things? Folks are going to be passionate about things you don't think are important.

Also, is it necessarily false? Valve says so, but I don't agree with Valve here, and there are others who don't as well (and the majority of posters here disagree with me and think this is legitimate by Valve- I accept that). I'm not saying Valve doesn't have the right to do what they're doing- they do, but at least it's opt-out. My argument is so far, the times Valve have used it and not used it so far have shown that you should opt-out of it, and I wish it was opt-in instead of opt-out.
 

MaLDo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,404
And review bombing isn't a legitimate form of protest, it's a childish and frankly pathetic attack on the hard work of developers on a false pretense. Anyone who defends it should really be ashamed of themselves

How old are you?

Protesting usually involves using all the means at your disposal, as shareholders always seek control of opinions and censure of criticism.

To read that we do not have the right to use this or that to make our voice heard depress me deeply. It is the reflection of a society convinced that who controls the money will watch over their interests. That is false.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,750
PC Gamer are basically Epic PR now, hard to take them seriously anymore

It's more that Epic has done wonders for their clicks. Look at how much controversy they generate with each story - and its really pedantic shit, we're entering celeb gossip territory with how minute the details that they're willing to cover compared to other PC related news.
 

YuSuzzune

Member
Nov 21, 2018
4,863
What I find absolutely hilarious is to take a game which was on Steam for like 2 years, pull it down, make it exclusive for another store.
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
Nah dude, not what reviews are for. If you buy it on steam you'll have access to future stuff. They're just moving the store you can buy it on. You think they're gonna cut off 90% of their player base from any future content? Did they say that's what they were doing maybe I'm completely wrong, let me know.
yes I think they will and i have no faith in epic not to fuck things up or just bail from pc gaming in general. They announced they were taking it off then with the backlash changed for now but there's no guarantee that it will stay on steam because of epic is.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
And review bombing isn't a legitimate form of protest, it's a childish and frankly pathetic attack on the hard work of developers on a false pretense. Anyone who defends it should really be ashamed of themselves



It is legitimate. Ffs people are nearly crying for reviews of a product. What's wrong with you people ?
No one's going to lose their job or money over review bombing.
As of today it's the only effective way to be heard.

And yet we have people complaining about it. It's like you want people to buy and never ever complain.
If Mortal Kombat XI would be review bombed for the crunching, I'd be glad.

But no, the gaming industry is one of cowards. We care more about the product than the people, customers in that case.
 

Andri

Member
Mar 20, 2018
6,017
Switzerland
Didn't people use to say exclusive games on PC launchers were fine if they were developed/owned by the owner of the Launcher ?
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
Didn't people use to say exclusive games on PC launchers were fine if they were developed/owned by the owner of the Launcher ?


It is. They totally are. Psyonix is now Epic. If Psyonix next game is exclusive to EGS forever, I have no problem.

The problem is to remove games that already released elsewhere. Which Epic are the only people to do in the industry.
You didnt see Valve removing Firewatch from GOG after buying Campo Santos nor cancelling the Switch version. Nor Microsoft removing Hellblade from PS4 and Switch ?
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
And review bombing isn't a legitimate form of protest, it's a childish and frankly pathetic attack on the hard work of developers on a false pretense. Anyone who defends it should really be ashamed of themselves
I thought you were a socialist.

You know, power to the people.

Not power to the people unless it is affecting something I like, then shut up. Also it's totally legitimate to protest art and artists. They're not above criticism, even when you don't like to hear it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,951
It is legitimate. Ffs people are nearly crying for reviews of a product. What's wrong with you people ?
No one's going to lose their job or money over review bombing.
As of today it's the only effective way to be heard.

And yet we have people complaining about it. It's like you want people to buy and never ever complain.
If Mortal Kombat XI would be review bombed for the crunching, I'd be glad.

But no, the gaming industry is one of cowards. We care more about the product than the people, customers in that case.

How many players among those who negatively rated the game due to the recent EGS move, did not have more than hundreds of hours of enjoyment in the game?

Also, doesn't Rocket League now have Cross Platform Parties?
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
How old are you?

Protesting usually involves using all the means at your disposal, as shareholders always seek control of opinions and censure of criticism.

To read that we do not have the right to use this or that to make our voice heard depress me deeply. It is the reflection of a society convinced that who controls the money will watch over their interests. That is false.
Don't ask how old I am. How old are you? I find it extraordinary that any adult could draw a comparison between lying to defame a work of art (that is what you do when you leave a false review) and protesting for social justice. That is so childish. It is not childish to say reviews should be left based on the merit of the creation, that is sane and rational. The implication behind your post is that any action, no matter what, is justified if you claim it's a form of protest, but it isn't. And I'm glad even Valve agrees with that and has taken action against it. Childish, immature, juvenile behavior at its worst. Don't think that people leaving fake reviews and harassing developers online are the vanguard of some protest movement for justice. It's nonsense. If you want to go picket outside Epic's offices, great. Go do it. That's a legitimate form of protest. But that would take actual effort and courage, unlike leaving a fake review.
But no, the gaming industry is one of cowards. We care more about the product than the people, customers in that case.
And here we have a perfect embodiment of the childish, juvenile, ridiculous stance of people who attack people's art and livelihoods on a false pretense. Hardworking developers who want their work to be respected and reviewed in good faith are "cowards." Shameful beyond belief.
No one's going to lose their job or money over review bombing.
As of today it's the only effective way to be heard.
Sorry, no one is losing money over review bombing? The entire goal of falsely manipulating review scores is to trick people into not buying something on a false basis.

This is such abject nonsense. Listen to yourself. Leaving fake reviews is the only way to be heard? You're being heard right now, although frankly I'm sure many people will wish they didn't have to hear it. There are many ways to be heard. Write to the developer, post on a forum, write in a Discord server about it, speak to your friends, post on social media. There are countless avenues for you to be heard that don't involve posting fake reviews.
I thought you were a socialist.

You know, power to the people.

Not power to the people unless it is affecting something I like, then shut up.
Once again, misrepresenting the views of people you disagree with in order to distort their argument with smears. I never said that if you don't like it, shut up. As I've made perfectly clear, you have almost infinite venues open to make your voice clear about this issue. But what isn't acceptable is to slander someone's work on a false basis and then claim that is a valid protest.
 

abracadaver

Banned
Nov 30, 2017
1,469
Good

I will leave a negative review as well as soon as they announce RL will be removed from Steam or RL2 will be EGS exclusive
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
SHAME on gamers doing this. This is why we will never be taken seriously as a medium. They are DOZENS of ways to voice your discontent, but reviewbombing is a WEAK, CHEAP and STUPID. I have zero respect anybody doing that, you're just a coward ! I've seen some of the new "reviews" on steam, it looks they've been made by a 5 years old... This seems this industry wants to remain an eternal teen.

Is this a copy pasta 😂
 
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