• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Deleted member 10852

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
298
I'm not going to shit on Steam but until they start making games again that interest me I will not fall into the Steam fanboy club.

Soo you come here quote a article where steam is good with controllers and the first thing you come to your mind is. "i will not fall into the steam fanboy club, because they dont do the games i want".


I'm sorry, isn't this a PC gaming thread?

That the reason of the article to see how the storefronts works with controllers. Steam works great with his interface, the others not. what is the point of saying
"i will not fall into the steam fanboy club, because they dont do the games i want"
if the article you quote is about controllers in storefronts.
 
Last edited:

BasilZero

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,343
Omni
I use Steam almost daily, thanks. My only complaint was about Valve and it's lack of games (that interest me) and how quick people are to attack anyone who criticizes Valve, can we not move on?


"Lack of games", what lack of games? You got people in other threads complaining that there's TOO MANY games lol.


Oh...you mean Valve developed games? Eh, not much of a loss - there's just too many other games out there to buy and play to hate a company/store just because they stopped making games for it themselves - not much of a justifiable reason to dislike a store.

In my case, its a actual legitimate complaint for the store and service - customer service should be a important aspect to a digital distributor/digital store - creating in house content not so much in this case since Steam is a service and a store first and foremost.


Edit: I still think Half-Life is overrated - Portal and L4D were awesome but there's just too many other games to play so its not much of a loss if we dont get a proper followup.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
I use Steam almost daily, thanks. My only complaint was about Valve and it's lack of games (that interest me) and how quick people are to attack anyone who criticizes Valve, can we not move on?



The game fell off the cliff, it was one of the quickest downfalls ever for Valve. Dota 2 didn't do that, and neither did Counter Strike. In Fact I don't recall any game that struggled as much. Anything else? It sure looks like some can't move on.



Awesome. I also am eagerly awaiting more of their VR push.



I'm sorry, isn't this a PC gaming thread?
CS GO dropped off heavily after release and was half dead until certain major updates came out.

It's also fucking hilarious that you call everyone who enjoys their games "fanboys". Really shows what you're here for.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
"Lack of games", what lack of games? You got people in other threads complaining that there's TOO MANY games lol.


Oh...you mean Valve developed games? Eh, not much of a loss - there's just too many other games out there to buy and play to hate a company/store just because they stopped making games for it themselves - not much of a justifiable reason to dislike a store.

In my case, its a actual legitimate complaint for the store and service - customer service should be a important aspect to a digital distributor/digital store - creating in house content not so much in this case.

Valve's been really good to me but to be honest I've only asked for 2 or 3 refunds ever. You're right, tons of games but another Valve game sure wouldn't hurt. It's been years since they made anything like Portal/Half Life/ Left 4 Dead.

CS GO dropped off heavily after release and was half dead until certain major updates came out.

It's also fucking hilarious that you call everyone who enjoys their games "fanboys". Really shows what you're here for.

Every post you make just confirms my comments about hostility and saying anything bad about Steam/Valve, along with having the last word for everything. Welcome to my ignore list too.
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,732
How do we convince LG to support the steamlink app in their new line of TVs though. That's the only thing I currently want from Valve.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,745
So I like Satisfactory, but theres no way in hell I'm putting my financial details on EGS - shame theres no way of buying it outside of EGS itself.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
I mean, I also wish Valve would make more games that interest me but I don't see what that has to do with Steam.

As I said, that's like saying what does EA games have to do with Origin or Epic Games have to do with the Epic Store or Microsoft Games and people using the Microsoft Store. If all Valve wants to do is hide its bundles of cash because they can being a private company then they are doing a good job of it. Didn't Steam start off with Valve games as a way to get people to notice the store? Valve could also hire more people to help curate its store better and games that promote rape should have been removed right away.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
As I said, that's like saying what does EA games have to do with Origin or Epic Games have to do with the Epic Store or Microsoft Games and people using the Microsoft Store.
Yeah. And that's totally legit? I mean, I love Nintendo's games but I can still say the e-shop is bad? I don't understand your point.
I don't care for Microsofts games but that doesn't mean I dislike the MS store?

Didn't Steam start off with Valve games as a way to get people to notice the store?
That was 15 years ago.
Things change
Valve could also hire more people to help curate its store better and games that promote rape should have been removed right away
Yeah, totally. There's a lot they should improve with Steam.
Still not sure what that has to do with their games output.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,217
As I said, that's like saying what does EA games have to do with Origin or Epic Games have to do with the Epic Store or Microsoft Games and people using the Microsoft Store. If all Valve wants to do is hide its bundles of cash because they can being a private company then they are doing a good job of it. Didn't Steam start off with Valve games as a way to get people to notice the store? Valve could also hire more people to help curate its store better and games that promote rape should have been removed right away.

Not at all. The Steam store isn't primarily a vehicle for Valve's games unlike Origin. There's no use for Origin outside of getting EA games and EA-produced indies. The EGS and Microsoft Store are, like Steam, meant for distribution of as many games as possible. You don't have to like the games Valve, MS or Epic makes to make use of these stores. This is a really weird position to take. Do you also not like itch.io because the company does not make its own games?
 

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,919
While I agree that Valve should improve in regards of offensive content, weren't indie devs first in line screaming that Valve doesn't give them chance because of curation before Gaben opened the floodgates? Now they want him to revert to old ways?
 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,564
Yeah, totally. There's a lot they should improve with Steam.
Still not sure what that has to do with their games output.

daxy said:
Not at all. The Steam store isn't primarily a vehicle for Valve's games unlike Origin. There's no use for Origin outside of getting EA games and EA-produced indies. The EGS and Microsoft Store are, like Steam, meant for distribution of as many games as possible. This is a really weird position to take. Do you also not like itch.io because the company does not make its own games?

Well it has been a complete 180. The original reason to use Steam was because of Valve's games. Now Valve as a game developer is almost irrelevant; cast a long shadow, sure, but their other activities outside of game dev get more attention from us and press - for better or worse
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
While I agree that Valve should improve in regards of offensive content, weren't indie devs first in line screaming that Valve doesn't give them chance because of curation before Gaben opened the floodgates? Now they want him to revert to old ways?

No? This is a false dichotomy. There's not just the two options.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
What's the third option?


I'm not the multibillion dollar corporation with billions of resources to figure that out. Consoles for instance, are pretty lax (I certainly doubt Sony and Nintendo are curating some of their releases) these days but not so much that a game called Rape Day can find their way on to their stores.

I'd think "hire more people" is at the start of the list. Saying there's only two options is like that recent Youtube comments thing. Yeah, Youtube could "solve" it by just stopping comments, or remaining a free for all, but that's not the only recourse.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
I have a random question for GSYNC monitor owning people that have played Dark Souls 3...so this might not ever get answered. Did any of you have bad tearing and have to cap the frame rate to 59 to get rid of it? Cuz that's what I did in RivaTuner and that fixed it, but I'm not sure if there's a more elegant solution or something I'm missring.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,106
It's kinda odd that with the likely Master Chief Collection announcement for PC this week (and the upcoming MS PC stuff) I find myself actually wishing they go back to the old Games For Windows Live solution we all hated back then, because I'd much rather they'd sell their games everywhere and you'd just have to login to an MS account.

Well, a better implemented version of that system anyway.
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,080
China
As I said, that's like saying what does EA games have to do with Origin or Epic Games have to do with the Epic Store or Microsoft Games and people using the Microsoft Store. If all Valve wants to do is hide its bundles of cash because they can being a private company then they are doing a good job of it. Didn't Steam start off with Valve games as a way to get people to notice the store? Valve could also hire more people to help curate its store better and games that promote rape should have been removed right away.

Yeah. They could and should.

But they arent "hiding their bundles of cash".
They are using it for R&D. Otherwise we wouldnt get a VR headset from them. Or new VR controllers. Or support for new headsets (and even official support for dance mats). Or Proton. Or developing a system for internet-cafés. Or developing a chinese Steam version with Perfect World. Or developing Steam Link etc.

Reading the Rape Day thread you can see that most people, even from this pc era community agree that Valve could do far more so stuff like that shouldnt happen. But saying "they just hide their bundles of cash" is disingenious when they are actually the company in the PC space that actually invests in the whole ecosystem far more than anyone else.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,097
Taiwan
Anybody that uses the "hides bundles of cash" probably really has no idea how this all really works or doesn't pay attention and just jumps on the bandwagon because it is cool.

Epic has bundles of cash and they doing mostly squat and returning PC back to the dark ages.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
There is? The way I see it it's either some form of curation or no curation at all.


I mean, you just said it yourself, "some form." That's not the same thing as the old ways, which you were seeming to use as some sort of charge of hypocrisy against this vague amorphous blob of indie devs you ascribed various opinions to. Your entire statement was awash in fallacies. I don't know if the dev of the Descenders (one of the more vocal people about Steam's issues IIRC) was anti-curation in the past, and I'm guessing you don't either, so it's weird to try to call out devs for opinions they might not (and frankly, likely did not) have. They aren't even asking for the old ways like you suggested, just not the current status quo.

I think it's clear there's at least some sort of balancing act between now and then that could be attempted even if it's something as small as having more hands on deck to prevent obvious scam games and troll content from sitting on their store for months. Being upset about the status of steam does not mean they want to go back to "probably would have rejected Stardew Valley" steam.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,394
Ibis Island
I'd say there's a big difference in better handling your 18+ category and curating the regular titles on the platform.

I've said before that anything going through "Steam After Dark" should have a different set of eyes on it.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
Lol I thought you people were going crazy. Then I noticed you were talking to someone I had on ignore list. You should do the same, total waste of time to talk with a wall incapable of having a formulated argument.
 

BasilZero

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,343
Omni
Started Ys VI finally.


Liking it so far - just beat the first boss and about to enter the first dungeon (level/area).


Edit: My 5th Ys game - will be buying Ys Seven or Memories of Celceta in the next summer sale as part of my 6th Ys game :p.
 
Last edited:

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,080
China
I think it's clear there's at least some sort of balancing act between now and then that could be attempted even if it's something as small as having more hands on deck to prevent obvious scam games and troll content from sitting on their store for months. Being upset about the status of steam does not mean they want to go back to "probably would have rejected Stardew Valley" steam.

I personally think Valve could do SO MUCH MORE in curating shit games, asset flips and "Hentai Puzzle" games so they wont even be on the store.

But I kinda think even if they are all gone... and you only have "normal" Indie-Games on it, a title like Descenders, a niche Mountain Bike game will still not do well. The "Deviantart Visual Novel" will still sell like shit because there are far better games in the same genre.
A title like "Full Metal Furies" or "Pyre" would still bomb because of reasons not related to the Shovelware games.

That doesn't mean I think Valve is doing a good job with "curating" the store and I think they can do better (and actually do though, since every few days you see them removing games by batches). But when Indie-devs say the reason their game failed is because of Shovelware or Hentai Puzzle games, I honestly dont think its true. Those games fail because they are either mediocre, maybe really just "my first passionate videogame project without much experience" or because maybe there just isnt a market for such a game.
 

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,919
I think it's clear there's at least some sort of balancing act between now and then that could be attempted even if it's something as small as having more hands on deck to prevent obvious scam games and troll content from sitting on their store for months. Being upset about the status of steam does not mean they want to go back to "probably would have rejected Stardew Valley" steam.
And as I said, Valve absolutely should improve their game in regards of offensive content and troll games.

The problem is, even if Valve delisted all the shovelware from the Steam it still wouldn't help majority of the indie devs, because we have too much quality content. It's not enough to be good anymore, your game must be exceptional.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
I personally think Valve could do SO MUCH MORE in curating shit games, asset flips and "Hentai Puzzle" games so they wont even be on the store.

But I kinda think even if they are all gone... and you only have "normal" Indie-Games on it, a title like Descenders, a niche Mountain Bike game will still not do well. The "Deviantart Visual Novel" will still sell like shit because there are far better games in the same genre.
A title like "Full Metal Furies" or "Pyre" would still bomb because of reasons not related to the Shovelware games.

I don't think Descenders will sell well either, I was just using that dev because he is vocal and usually does in depth analysis. I don't think it's an end all be all fix of the problem, but it could certainly help.

Just something like Wandersong, which sold like 3x more copies on Switch than on Steam, for instance. Judging by Steam figures it still didn't do well overall, but 3x on a platform when the game didn't really get much marketing in general, let alone Nintendo marketing shows that in a less crowded market some of these titles might stand out more.

They can at least tweak the way things are shown.

Like Hypnospace Outlaw is out in a couple days, and it's a game from a developer I played the previous game (Dropsy) of, and has had some decent early press coverage. Why isn't in my Q, but a game with like 30 "mixed" reviews is?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/320790/Fabula_Mortis/
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
I mean, you just said it yourself, "some form." That's not the same thing as the old ways, which you were seeming to use as some sort of charge of hypocrisy against this vague amorphous blob of indie devs you ascribed various opinions to. Your entire statement was awash in fallacies. I don't know if the dev of the Descenders (one of the more vocal people about Steam's issues IIRC) was anti-curation in the past, and I'm guessing you don't either, so it's weird to try to call out devs for opinions they might not (and frankly, likely did not) have. They aren't even asking for the old ways like you suggested, just not the current status quo.

I think it's clear there's at least some sort of balancing act between now and then that could be attempted even if it's something as small as having more hands on deck to prevent obvious scam games and troll content from sitting on their store for months. Being upset about the status of steam does not mean they want to go back to "probably would have rejected Stardew Valley" steam.
But they are starting to do it? They have hired a ton of people on the community / moderation side from 2 years ago (they still have to improve on that).

Also, when someone say "all indies" it is generally accepted that you are referring to most of them. Yeah, most indies nowadays want a return of curation as long as they are the ones inside. Before, they complained that Steam was too closed and that Valve was wrong and there was an audience for their games in Steam. Steam created Greenlight. Developers complained because Greenlight was flawed as it was more of a popularity contest and still hurted indies without publishers. Valve introduced Steam Direct and asked many developers about what the fee should be. Valve wanted it to be higher to avoid a ton of the troll games... but indie developers complained and ended up being "only" 100$. Whatever situation you do, a big chunk of the small indies will complain, as they are the ones that barely scrap by and really need Steam (and will be the ones hurt by tougher regulations).

Now going back to the problem with indies in Steam. The issue is that the core problem for indies is not curation and most of those troll games do not see that much sales (except when someone puts a spotlight on them). The problem of indies is a cut throat market nowadays, with high quality indies (both new and old) and an ever increasing number of developers competing for a customer base that hadn't grown as much as them.

Yes, Steam can and has to do more, but the focus on curation being the main problem is stupid. The main problem is too many good games and Steam discovery tools needing more improvement (despite being the best in the videogame bussiness).
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
I think these dumb arguments would die if other platforms had a way of checking sales. For all the complaining about Steam, there's a little know fact: PS4 indie sales are usually worse. And have been getting even worse.

It's the reason so many games today opt for a Switch/PC launch instead.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
I think these dumb arguments would die if other platforms had a way of checking sales. For all the complaining about Steam, there's a little know fact: PS4 indie sales are usually worse. And have been getting even worse.
Doesnt help that Sony basically stopped caring so much about indies this gen after the intial drought period and once it was clear they had won this gen.

Kinda like what MS did last gen when when you think about it.
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,252
I really wonder what Valve will do when it comes to their HMD and all VR games on Steam. Does every developer/publisher have to integrate support for both the VALVE HMD and the Knuckles (I assume they won't ship it with the VIVE Wands as that is a HTC product)? Cause that will just might make some devs/pubs to never support the Valve HMD. Or will Valve automatically update the SteamVR API to automatically support every VR game in the store?

So many questions.

I also hope that Valves HMD will have much more FOV than the Rift and VIVE and even better, be wireless out of the box.

- The SteamVR API should automatically make it so a Valve HMD just worked without any developer work being needed.

- Knuckles is interesting in that the new SteamVR 2.0(2) API is really neat. Obviously a developer has to build their game with this incorporated (so old games would need a major update), but it's basically the Steam Controller API for VR.

I'm working on something in Unity right now and you basically just create action poses. You define an action pose (say "fist"), and then it just gets mapped to the various controllers. With Vive it'd be trigger is depressed X amount... with Knuckles your hands are in a fist... etc. Right now everything is kind of automatic for Vive, Oculus, and Knuckles. They're mentioned they're working with MS to try and get WMR controllers included.

The great thing about this, is if you, the user, didn't want to press the trigger to make a fist, you could just remap "fist" to be "touch top of touchpad". IE just like Steam controller works. Completely customizable. Including changing the pose orientation on a hand model (if you found it was off for your taste... adjust how it's offset), etc.

- One of the guys who was fired (via resume info) was working on a high resolution HMD that allowed for both tethered and untethered connections. He was also working on improving compression algorithms for wireless transmission. So there's a decent chance, if this thing ever gets released, it'll at least have the option to be wireless.

135 FOV and wireless would be nirvana for me:)

And as I said, Valve absolutely should improve their game in regards of offensive content and troll games.

The problem is, even if Valve delisted all the shovelware from the Steam it still wouldn't help majority of the indie devs, because we have too much quality content. It's not enough to be good anymore, your game must be exceptional.

The giant elephant in the room that's just ignored. There's absolutely no fixing a saturated market. Nintendo is benefiting for three reason: it was a new platform with little library, a lot of Nintendo gamers are flat out weird and they only own Nintendo platforms (so game released on 100 platforms, but never Nintendo, are new to them), and it's the one place you can play these in portable form. I think this third is the most important. If Switch was a console only, or if cheap portables existed (that played Steam games), the sales would be depressed like every other platform. That's it's hook and why indie games have some life on that platform.
 
Last edited:

AHA-Lambda

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,793
I think these dumb arguments would die if other platforms had a way of checking sales. For all the complaining about Steam, there's a little know fact: PS4 indie sales are usually worse. And have been getting even worse.

It's the reason so many games today opt for a Switch/PC launch instead.

And yet no one screams that Sony is evil/lazy, should be reducing their cut of course >_>
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Yeah. And that's totally legit? I mean, I love Nintendo's games but I can still say the e-shop is bad? I don't understand your point.
I don't care for Microsofts games but that doesn't mean I dislike the MS store?


That was 15 years ago.
Things change

Yeah, totally. There's a lot they should improve with Steam.
Still not sure what that has to do with their games output.

So what if it was 15 years ago. The thing is they used those games to attract people to the store and now that they pretty much control the PC landscape for game sales they now don't feel compelled to release that many games?

Not at all. The Steam store isn't primarily a vehicle for Valve's games unlike Origin. There's no use for Origin outside of getting EA games and EA-produced indies. The EGS and Microsoft Store are, like Steam, meant for distribution of as many games as possible. You don't have to like the games Valve, MS or Epic makes to make use of these stores. This is a really weird position to take. Do you also not like itch.io because the company does not make its own games?

I just think if you host a store and are a game developer that you should keep making games, not just decline making games because the money is pouring in. Sony controls the marketshare for third party games, woudn't many be upset if they stop producing 1st party titles? This all goes back to the notion of what Epic is doign and trying to combat Steam and using exclusives as a means to have a shot at being somewhat competitive. Of couse their store needs to be better to start but I still think Steam is such a monster that even on a level playing field they have a huge uphill battle to get anyone to change now.

Yeah. They could and should.

But they arent "hiding their bundles of cash".
They are using it for R&D. Otherwise we wouldnt get a VR headset from them. Or new VR controllers. Or support for new headsets (and even official support for dance mats). Or Proton. Or developing a system for internet-cafés. Or developing a chinese Steam version with Perfect World. Or developing Steam Link etc.

Reading the Rape Day thread you can see that most people, even from this pc era community agree that Valve could do far more so stuff like that shouldnt happen. But saying "they just hide their bundles of cash" is disingenious when they are actually the company in the PC space that actually invests in the whole ecosystem far more than anyone else.

The thing is because they are a private company nobody even knows how much they get from Steam. So they could very well be building a warchest of money. I am in no way trying to suggest they are just sitting back and going to strip bars every night but can't they do all that and keep game development going?

I'd say there's a big difference in better handling your 18+ category and curating the regular titles on the platform.

I've said before that anything going through "Steam After Dark" should have a different set of eyes on it.

True and there is no way that game should have been allowed but it just shows how little they care of what goes on it until someone makes a big deal about it.
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,080
China
The thing is because they are a private company nobody even knows how much they get from Steam. So they could very well be building a warchest of money. I am in no way trying to suggest they are just sitting back and going to strip bars every night but can't they do all that and keep game development going?

I mean they did.

They developed Artifact.
They are developing In the Valley of Gods.

And Gaben just a few days on Reddit said their VR games are still in development.

AND they are still supporting decade old games. TF2 is getting updates. DOTA2 is getting updates. CS:Go is getting updates and even new modes like the BR mode a few months ago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.