• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

PC Racing Sims |OT|

Mascot

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,505
Is it my imagination or does AMS2 have the same awful oven gloves driver gloves as Project Cars 2?
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
Of all the things to be concerned about!! Haha.

I'd say the gloves are the same as Reiza are likely using SMS art assets.

I did read Reiza are using 2D trees like the first pcars to save performance. I can't say that I'm overly fussed if the trees are 2D or 3D.
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
Huge amount of updates for R3E: https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/2nd-october-2019-update.13746/



Content:
  • Dubai Autodrome is now available with 4 layouts ( Grand Prix ; International ; National ; Club )
  • Audi R8 LMS - Fixed cockpit camera that was slightly off center
  • Audi TT cup - Fixed underbody feelers that were 2,5cm too low and made the car scrape the tarmac when it in fact should not.
  • Formula RaceRoom 90 - Updated physics (suspension and differential, rev limiter logic, increased oil cooling slightly); Improvements to AI behavior
  • GTR1 car class - Updated physics (aerodynamics, turbo buildup, rev limiter logic, tuned dampers) ; Improvements to AI behavior
  • GTR2 car class - Updated physics (Traction Control logic, dampers tuned, improved gearshifts) ; Improvements to AI behavior
  • Honda Civic TC1 - Fixed an issue where this car couldn't easily alternate between forward and reverse gears.
  • NSU TTS - Improvements to AI behavior (no more rolling over big curbs)
  • Pagani Zonda R - Updated physics (Traction Control logic, ABS improvements, dampers tuned, improved gearshifts)
  • Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport - Updated physics (tuned dampers, tyre model, Traction Control and ABS improvements; Improvements to AI behavior
  • Porsche 911 GT3 Cup - Updated physics (tyre model refinements to have much more response to tyre pressures, tuned dampers and rear camber, differential tweaks) ; Improvements to AI behavior
  • Porsche 934 RSR - Tweaked rearview mirror UV
  • Porsche 911 Carrera (964) - Updated physics (rev limiter behavior, differential, suspension and dampers, tyre model, ABS improvements); Improvements to AI behavior
  • WTCR - Improvements to AI behaviour
 

Moss

Member
Oct 27, 2017
897
F1 at Suzuka this Weekend got me thinking about the circuit. Is there a list of sims that feature the track, modded versions or otherwise? I vaguely remember there was a mod version for AC, but it was a bit crap.
 

SunBro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
81
Turkey
This car got me very hyped. A genuine showcase of how modders can extend and go beyond the vision of the original developers

 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
R3E has a licenced Suzuka and pretend F1 cars from several eras, pCARS has their own version which isn't accurate as it's not licenced.
 

JamboGT

Vehicle Handling Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
675
Hey all, I posted this thread in Gaming:


If anyone feels free to give it a bump now and then it would be good to get eyes on it :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
942
Germany
No, I completely disagree here, too. I actually had a list of really bad physics examples from pCARS1 to go through and see if they really made pCARS2 better and most of them were gone. The FFB is miles ahead in PC2 as well imo.

Just looking at the steering movement of the guy in the video in the Sauber C9, into and midcorner ...steering in too fast, correcting oversteer without really feeling how much to correct, correcting the overcorrection and being very late on the gas because he has no confidence, then suffering huge understeer leading to giving too much steering angle, leading to oversteer as soon as he's on the gas again that he then has to correct again as well... it all reminds me of how weird that game was.
Sound-wise PC2 is an improvment for me as well, definitely in terms of drivability (tire, brake and rev-limit nearing engine sounds), though I can see his points in terms of how visceral and loud engine notes were in PC1. On the graphics side... maybe some if it is downgraded, I'm not really sure, but when I drove it yesterday and was reminded of how beautiful a Nordschleife in autumn colors can look (had it set to real weather and totally forgot that the color palette changes with the season) and what a big change in atmosphere can come with the implementations of good looking dynamic weather, ToD and seasons can mean, PC2 is the winner in the graphics department for me as well.

[did I just write a love letter to PC2? Was I set up by you, TJP?]
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
I found it to be an interesting comment on the differences between releases.

Mr PRC, who was a paid SMS employee during the second release's development, stated in the YT comments the wheel slip was more natural in the first release which is why the cars feel more lively.
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
Worth listening to the Sim Racing Perspectives podcast with Niels: https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/9fazh-6c24b/Sim-Racing-Perspectives-Podcast

The long and short from the 2 hour podcast is:

  • Niels worked on the Grand Tour game for S397 and is close with the guys at S397 and Aris from Kunos.
  • Works with racing teams to make cars for them in rFactor. Says a lot of teams use rFactor as rFactor Pro is too expensive.
  • Has nothing to do with AMS 2 development and he did approximately 50% of the physics work on AMS/GSC with Renato doing the other cars, AI and BoP. Niels wants people to realise he wasn't the only guy making cars at Reiza.
  • Looks back at AMS and wishes he could fix aspects he's not happy with as he's always learning about cars, suspensions, tyre and aerodynamics.
  • Doesn't agree with the push to make sim physics more complex; e.g. Neils stated the tyre model for rF2 is far too complex for him to work & takes too long to wait for new tyre builds after making changes and prefers the less complex rF tyre model (isiMotor 2.0) which is easier to work with and create tyres for.
  • Praises isiMotor for making realistic cars from inputting real world data.
  • Prefers working in Excel to make cars and wants to make a mega spreadsheet for isiMotor 2.0 to make realistic cars.
  • Amazed at what Geoff Crammond was able to do with his F1 series, including the data logging.
  • Stated making physics and driving sim cars is highly subjective.
  • Says the same about YT'ers adding 'who do you trust to say car X, Y & Z drive realistically' when so few people have actually driven any race cars.
  • He doesn't think highly of iRacing's driving and tyre model but loves the sound and visuals.
  • Prefers AMS, rF2 and AC.
  • Loves the car list in pCARS 2 and stated it takes him approximately 1 month to make a car from scratch and can understand why some cars in pCARS 1 + 2 feel great and others don't (from what I gather, he's never actually used pCARS). Said if a car feels good in pCARS, the underlying physics must be good and thinks AMS 2 could therefore be good too as AMS 2 has far less cars to model.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
942
Germany
Worth listening to the Sim Racing Perspectives podcast with Niels.

Long and short is Niels worked on the Grand Tour game for S397 and is close to S397 and Aris from Kunos.

Has nothing to do with AMS 2 development. Did 50% of the physics work on AMS/GSC.

Doesn't agree with the push to make sim physics more complex; e.g. feels the tyre model for rF2 is far too complex for him to work with and prefers the less complex rF tyre model.

Prefers working in Excel to make cars and wants to make a mega spreadsheet for isiMotor 2 to make cars.

Making physics and driving sim cars is highly subjective.

He doesn't think highly of iRacing's driving and tyre model but loves the sound and visuals.

Prefers AMS, rF2 and AC.

Praises isiMotor for making realistic cars from inputting real world data.
I'm a big podcast listener, never heard of this one before and I gotto say... the guy is hard to listen to for me with that voice and dialect. Also he spelled Niels wrong and it's not a typo, he did it three times in title and description.

Thanks for the write-up, TJP!
Interesting that he worked on the Grand Tour game (I missed that, when the podcast didn't have my full attention I guess) and so many people were complaining that it didn't play well with a pad, when Niels has shown in his last video a week ago, that with some small tire and aero tweaks, he could make AMS play as an semi-arcade'ish gamepad game.
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
Comparing the stock setups for the 911 GT3 cup car between R3E and rF2 - it's amazing how different the cars are set up from a near reversal of brake bias (57:43 R3E to 47:53 rF2) to ride hights and starting tyre pressure.

I have a feeling Studio 397 will have to fix a few things.
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
I could've sworn Zandvoort was already in ACC. Shows how much I know.
It's included in AC as a non-laser scanned track which caused a few meltdowns at the time.

I loaded up ACC today and rather quickly uninstalled it again :( ACC remains sublime in photos and less so in-game. I tried everything I could to make ACC's visuals crisp and it still looks like it has vaseline smeared visuals with jaggies everywhere.

If anyone has any tips or tricks for decent AA in ACC, I'd be very happy to read through suggestions.

AC+Content Manager+SOL+Shaders Patch may not be as nice as ACC overall but it runs great and looks crisp too.
 

marvelharvey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
811
Osaka, Japan
I loaded up ACC today and rather quickly uninstalled it again :( ACC remains sublime in photos and less so in-game. I tried everything I could to make ACC's visuals crisp and it still looks like it has vaseline smeared visuals with jaggies everywhere.
Funnily enough, I almost convinced myself to redownload ACC over the weekend, after seeing so much recent press. But then I remembered those goddamn jaggies and saved myself some bandwidth.
 
Oct 25, 2017
942
Germany
It's included in AC as a non-laser scanned track which caused a few meltdowns at the time.

I loaded up ACC today and rather quickly uninstalled it again :( ACC remains sublime in photos and less so in-game. I tried everything I could to make ACC's visuals crisp and it still looks like it has vaseline smeared visuals with jaggies everywhere.

If anyone has any tips or tricks for decent AA in ACC, I'd be very happy to read through suggestions.

AC+Content Manager+SOL+Shaders Patch may not be as nice as ACC overall but it runs great and looks crisp too.
I think marvelharvey just still dislikes the ai in AC.

ACC... jaggies or blur... to be honest, if the FFB would feel more natural too me, I'd be fine with the look of the game. Not sure I could overlook the performance issues. Average framerate of 83, no v-sync and it's just really unsmooth. I'm sure many people wouldn't see it, but I absolutely do see the microstutter. I can acclimatize to it after a few laps, but after an hour, I usually end up with headache.

And about Zandvoort, is it REALLY not laserscanned? I hadn't heard that before and somewhat vividly remember Stefano saying that all their (non-fantasy) tracks are laserscanned and branded, that's why he wouldn't want a Sakitto/Kanzai - Suzuka in official AC content... and given how late I was into watching his streams, it was most likely after Zandvoort was out. Did they use some "similar to laserscanning" data maybe??
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
I think marvelharvey just still dislikes the ai in AC.

ACC... jaggies or blur... to be honest, if the FFB would feel more natural too me, I'd be fine with the look of the game. Not sure I could overlook the performance issues. Average framerate of 83, no v-sync and it's just really unsmooth. I'm sure many people wouldn't see it, but I absolutely do see the microstutter. I can acclimatize to it after a few laps, but after an hour, I usually end up with headache.

And about Zandvoort, is it REALLY not laserscanned? I hadn't heard that before and somewhat vividly remember Stefano saying that all their (non-fantasy) tracks are laserscanned and branded, that's why he wouldn't want a Sakitto/Kanzai - Suzuka in official AC content... and given how late I was into watching his streams, it was most likely after Zandvoort was out. Did they use some "similar to laserscanning" data maybe??
I'm with you on the headaches induced by ACC Tyler and I have posted this may times here. I think it's a combination exactly what you've posted; microstutters, especially in corners, and blury visuals.

UE4 is capable of remarkable images - here is a test of the latest UE4 build running at 35-60fps at 1080p on a GTX970 on Epic/High settings and is unoptimised:

I'm not sure why ACC looks the way it does as it's by far the worst looking and performing UE4 game I own (Hellblade, MotoGP 19 and ACC).

As for AC, Zandvoort is not laser scanned and it caused all manner of hate when Stefano announced it wasn't laser scanned. Go back in the RD archives or bsimracing etc to read the meltdowns:



I would have said nothing, waited for the usual 'OMG, best track ever' comments and then stated it wasn't laser scanned.

Unless there were serious deficiencies in the accuracy, I doubt anyone outside of a driver who has driven the track extensively would know the difference between a really well modelled track and a laser scanned effort.

Google Maps, Google Earth, YouTube, drone footage and good old reference photos have done wonders in track recreation in simulations however bit lacks the cachet of laser scanning.

Scanning a track will always be the best for accuracy for that single point in time though.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
942
Germany
I still only have a GTX 970, but maybe that's why,... or we have a different definition of micro stutter. For me it's so minor unevenness of frame delivery, that I'm sure most non-gamer people older than me wouldn't be able to see it, but maybe still get headaches.

And I completely agree with TJP about track accuracy. I can't think of an official content track - laserscanned or not - in AC, R3E or AMS that I'm not very happy about its accuracy and feel.
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
I get mirco stutters in ACC in some corners, even with the mirrors turned off. It's got to be an UE4 implementation issue with ACC as MotoGP 19 runs without any of the same issues, including a lack of headaches.

The weather in MotoGP is not dynamic nor is their any need for a 24 hour cycle so there is less strain on the graphics engine.

I forgot to add R3E uses real world suspension data for its vehicles and tracks too.
 

marvelharvey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
811
Osaka, Japan
I gave ACC another try and managed to reduce the aliasing to an acceptable amount by tweaking a number of variables. However, before you rush off to boot it up, my framerate went from 120fps to around 30. That's the cost of getting decent IQ in ACC. My settings were as follows:

-Downsampling from 4K
-Epic AA
-KTAA
-150% resolution (or whatever that thing is)
-Sharpness 80%
-r.TemporalAACurrentFrameWeight set to 0.03

Like you said, other UE4 games don't have this problem, so ACC's aliasing issues are a bit of a mystery.
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
I believe you're downsampling and upsampling at the same time.

Doesn't the resolution setting at 100% match the inputted resolution (at the top of the graphics options)? Go under the 100% and the resolution drops and is upscaled and go above 100% at the engine is upping the resolution..at least that what I think it's doing.

Edit: Unreal Engine 4 can render a scene in lower resolution and scale the image up to the target resolution - taken from the UE4 help site.

At this point, I don't foresee the mirrors, AA and career mode will be improved at this point.
 
Last edited:

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
I read a comment on RD about ACC player numbers spiking to a peak of 1979 in the last 24 hours which is good news.

AC had 3,444 in the same time period and over 3 times the current users online (333 vs 1053). I'm sure modding and breadth of content helps AC.

Both rF2 and R3E would be very happy with ACC's numbers! pCARS 2 has double the amount of users of either sim in the same period.
 
Oct 25, 2017
942
Germany
ACC: A racing driver's take on Assetto Corsa Competizione v1.1

So this guy has never played rF2 or pCARS2 or why is he not saying anything about their GT3 cars? Just GTS, AC, ACC and iRacing.
He claims that other sim devs don't work with GT3 drivers?? Where did he get this idea?!?? Why say that, if you have no clue?

And I never played ACC on a Thrustmaster, but I'd say the opposite about the FFB, it's very very heavy and that very early in the turn-in process (not saying, it's incorrect, slicks do build up peak very quickly at low slip angles, but I like it more how all other games feel, including AC). If he likes AC's FFB more because it's STRONGER than ACC's, he's likely set it up in a way that has a lot of clipping and he doesn't even feel it/even likes it.
Also at 9:50 he says "the scrub radius of the tire seems to be... has a very small window [in ACC]"... tires don't have a scrub radius and the scrub radius doesn't have a window. Why not just say "the car slides too easily at corner entry and is gone too quickly after it has started to slide" if you don't know you shit.

Maybe you know from my previus postings, that I love the Driver61 YouTube channel and Scott now has an extra sim racing channel, called >>Driver 61 Sim Racing<<.
Aaaand... uh boy it's clickbaity YouTube titles, holy shit. I thought he had more style and dignity tbh. [am I getting banned now for clickbait accusations?]
Of course Jimmy and GM for example do that too, but it's tongue-in-cheek there (and pretty funny in some of GM's video titles).
 

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
So this guy has never played rF2 or pCARS2 or why is he not saying anything about their GT3 cars? Just GTS, AC, ACC and iRacing.
He claims that other sim devs don't work with GT3 drivers?? Where did he get this idea?!?? Why say that, if you have no clue?​

And I never played ACC on a Thrustmaster, but I'd say the opposite about the FFB, it's very very heavy and that very early in the turn-in process (not saying, it's incorrect, slicks do build up peak very quickly at low slip angles, but I like it more how all other games feel, including AC). If he likes AC's FFB more because it's STRONGER than ACC's, he's likely set it up in a way that has a lot of clipping and he doesn't even feel it/even likes it.​
Also at 9:50 he says "the scrub radius of the tire seems to be... has a very small window [in ACC]"... tires don't have a scrub radius and the scrub radius doesn't have a window. Why not just say "the car slides too easily at corner entry and is gone too quickly after it has started to slide" if you don't know you shit.

Maybe you know from my previus postings, that I love the Driver61 YouTube channel and Scott now has an extra sim racing channel, called >>Driver 61 Sim Racing<<.
Aaaand... uh boy it's clickbaity YouTube titles, holy shit. I thought he had more style and dignity tbh. [am I getting banned now for clickbait accusations?]
Of course Jimmy and GM for example do that too, but it's tongue-in-cheek there (and pretty funny in some of GM's video titles).
I doubt you'll be banned Tyler unless someone reports you :)​

David Perel is part of the ACC team and will be naturally proud of 'his baby'. I've also formed the impression that he is very new to PC sim racing and gaming in general as he's only just bought his first gaming spec PC and it sounds like he's largely guided by his Patreon subscribers.​

The part of the video I found most interesting was David stated he had to inform Kunos of the missing bumps at Zandvoort. I would presume the track was laser scanned and these details would be in the game as a result. Kunos either used an outdated laser scan or updated the AC version which wasn't laser scanned.
 
Last edited:

TJP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
Earth :)
I gave ACC another try and managed to reduce the aliasing to an acceptable amount by tweaking a number of variables. However, before you rush off to boot it up, my framerate went from 120fps to around 30. That's the cost of getting decent IQ in ACC.
I had a quick drive last night (before uninstalling).​

Positives:​
  • Free content is always welcome!​
  • AA seems to be improved in getting rid of jaggies on the armco and other trackside objects. I'm finding the AA is better without the post processing on however turning PP to low washes out the colours.​
  • New cars are good to drive. The new Porsche GT3 II is trickier in ACC than any other Porsche in any other sim I've driven. Perhaps the Porsche isn't for me despite loving their cars. The AM is a blast and the newly improved NSX is much more fun to drive.​
  • AI car LOD provides a much needed performance boost with a decent sized grid.​
  • The 'updated' tracks are good too although I'm still wondering why a laser scanned Zandvoort needed a driver to tell Kunis about missing bumps.​
  • The car setup screens remains some of the best available.​
Negatives:​
  • ACC remains the heaviest on the CPU+GPU of all sims I own whilst having some of the worst visuals (e.g. awful mirrors & overall sharpness),​
  • Mirrors still kill performance on anything above mid. Even on highest settings they look like arse,​
  • FFB remains a mixed bag. Not sure why nKP and AC feel awesome and ACC is lacking.​
  • Shadow pop in is abysmal; rF2 has nothing to worry about!​
  • The career mode remains a WIP and worse than those of pCARS and AC. I'd rather have nothing that ACC's half baked career mode.​
I'd love Kunos to sort out UE4 to run as well as other dev's have managed as the focus on just GT3 cars is a wise choice for physics and tyre accuracy.
 
Last edited: