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JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
Can you stop making declaration in which you have zero knowledge off?

If the majority of backers were content with their EGS key, there would be not the hastely movement to change their annoucment to state that people WILL get a key after a year instead of their initial announcement of you get a EGS key and nothing else.

Your responses here show how toxic of a poster you are.
Come back when you have something showing most backers are getting refunds. Ask them in their AMA. Much safer assumption that it's a minority.

Naturally they'd want to do what they can to minimize the inconvenience to their fans (somehow you guys spin even that as a negative) — but you cannot take that and assume the people complaining make up a majority. Just more nutty narratives.
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
Epic did this with Satisfactory too. Exclusive money hatting is hated by gamers and several big platform holders are moving away from it because of the horrible PR stink that comes with. Find another way Epic.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
Come back when you have something showing most backers are getting refunds. Ask them in their AMA. Much safer assumption that it's a minority.

Naturally they'd want to do what they can to minimize the inconvenience to their fans (somehow you guys spin even that as a negative) — but you cannot take that and assume the people complaining make up a majority. Just more nutty narratives.

Yes, Snapshot doing damage control to stop refunds = a minority are getting refunds.

As opposed to you making up wholesale things to support your argument with zero evidence?
 

Roshin

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,840
Sweden
Why are you doing the AMA lol. There is a zero percent chance it will make people change their mind. And like a 90% chance you will say something that will make it worse and become a meme. Remember EA's "feel pride and accomplishment" bit?

They have made it clear that they don't need the backers anymore, now that they have their money. The AMA is going to be ugly, but get it over and done with, boot the game out the door, count your money, cross your fingers and hope everyone has forgotten about this in a year.
 

Fanta

Member
May 27, 2018
508
I'm actually wondering, what happens after the 1 year is up? A lot of devs turning away consumers for a short term benefit for them self, but what happens then? Release another game and hope the Epic money they got doesn't run out? What if no one buys their game on Epic Store nor Steam/GOG when it's later released there? Hope that Epic keeps giving them more money?

I don't understand???
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,624
Tel Aviv
Naturally they'd want to do what they can to minimize the inconvenience to their fans (somehow you guys spin even that as a negative) — but you cannot take that and assume the people complaining make up a majority. Just more nutty narratives.
These are people who have given you their money based on promises, not just consumer who pre-ordered the game. If you break that promise, you've broken the trust. Again, crowdsourcing is not the same as pre-ordering the game - It's an interest free loan to develop the game. Even if these people are not the majority (I don't know how many they are) - It's very understandable that they would be mad when the terms of what was agreed upon change, considering they put the money down to kickstart the development.
This could have ramifications to crowd-sourcing moving forward, since the precedent set here is that creators can promise whatever they want during the fund-rising but then just change platforms or major details down the line when a better opportunity comes along.
 

Sabin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,592
JWCVc0B.jpg



The game being DRM free on Epic is an improvement to the situation. If we can download it once, and then won't need it again for additional installations.

Won't change anything for me i backed and supported it with the knowledge that we will get a day 1 steam key. If i had knew that this situation would have happend i would have never backed in the first place.

Considering this has happend i doubt that i will ever bake anything again.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
I'm actually wondering, what happens after the 1 year is up? A lot of devs turning away consumers for a short term benefit for them self, but what happens then? Release another game and hope the Epic money they got doesn't run out? What if no one buys their game on Epic Store nor Steam/GOG when it's later released there? Hope that Epic keeps giving them more money?

I don't understand???

Most of them better hope they have enough epic money to make their next game, because crowdsourcing and etc will be out of the qusetion now.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,343
JWCVc0B.jpg



The game being DRM free on Epic is an improvement to the situation. If we can download it once, and then won't need it again for additional installations.

This is certainly less bad, and does address some concerns.

I also literally don't believe them, given the situation they created and how little thought and prep went into an announcement like this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,165
I'm actually wondering, what happens after the 1 year is up? A lot of devs turning away consumers for a short term benefit for them self, but what happens then? Release another game and hope the Epic money they got doesn't run out? What if no one buys their game on Epic Store nor Steam/GOG when it's later released there? Hope that Epic keeps giving them more money?

I don't understand???
A lot of business people even those who should known better are shockingly short sighted and don't understand the value of positive perception m
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
I think we can all agree that crowdfunding is seriously damaged for videogame projects at least. It was already a diminishing venue for indie devs and this could be the final hit.

Also I saw someone mentioning a dystopian future were basically PC gaming becomes console gaming with all the shanenigans. Yikes.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
This whole EGS situation is just confirming over and over why i don't really give a shit about the 'think of the devs' argument. This right here is how much most devs actually care about their customers.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
I'm actually wondering, what happens after the 1 year is up? A lot of devs turning away consumers for a short term benefit for them self, but what happens then? Release another game and hope the Epic money they got doesn't run out? What if no one buys their game on Epic Store nor Steam/GOG when it's later released there? Hope that Epic keeps giving them more money?

I don't understand???

I guess they are betting into Epic's store becoming a successful platform.

Epic is not gonna stop and niche indie games, this is only the beginning. Hold onto your butts. This gonna get ugly.
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,676
Come back when you have something showing most backers are getting refunds. Ask them in their AMA. Much safer assumption that it's a minority.

Naturally they'd want to do what they can to minimize the inconvenience to their fans (somehow you guys spin even that as a negative) — but you cannot take that and assume the people complaining make up a majority. Just more nutty narratives.
It doesn't need over half of backers getting refunds for it to end up with a total PR disaster. Inertia is a thing, but it works both ways - people who are silent will probably remain silent. At the very least Snapshot's (and lackeys') current behavior does not suggest they expected this amount of pushback, which, given how tame it is, suggests they really didn't think this through. Which promises us potential for chaos. Someone fetch me the nachos.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
I mean, in the screenshot from the devs conversation they were asking ASAP to clear out the steam and GoG key after the year question. Those refunds must have hurt somewhat, specially if they came from higher tiers.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,206
Honestly, not sure what's wrong here. The Donald poster in question was posting tons of offensive shit in the Discord. He was absolutely being a toxic cock waffle.

I think they're referring to the reddit mod supposedly being hired by the studio, which is against reddit's moderation rules -- not the topic of that thread itself, which, like you said, seems bunk.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
Honestly, not sure what's wrong here. The Donald poster in question was posting tons of offensive shit in the Discord. He was absolutely being a toxic cock waffle.
Unfortunately, the job of the PR person is to take it, or take measures to minimize the damage quietly. That poster is quite right that it was unprofessional, because it was badly handled, regardless of whether it was justified or not.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
Meh, I'm fine with PR people insulting bigots for being bigots.
Then call them bigots, don't call them names, in a highly charged situation, you shouldn't be inflaming people. As demonstrated there, it is just causing them more problems.

It might feel good, but it isn't doing anything for you in the long run.
 

ZugZug123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,412
Hum, I might add this to the Ignore list instead of just forgeting it exists and buying it when it comes to Steam. It's been a long time I have crowdfunded a game and I would be pissed if one of the ones I backed became EGS only on PC right before release. I'm already upset the people that made Hyper Light Drifter has a new game that is EGS only since they hit the big time by having HLD be crowdfunded, now this game is a new low.

Crossing my finger Klei never does this, I would be so sad.
 

Deleted member 13148

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,188
Im not with developers controlling their discord and subreddit, being able to control information at a whim with moderation and bans.
Sorry, I was responding to the second screenshot where the toxic cock waffle got called out. I don't see an issue with a developer moderating their own discord, but he probably shouldn't be a reddit moderator.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,624
Tel Aviv
I completely forgot FIG has investment options. This is really screwing investors, since I'd imagine sales in the Epic Store are going to be MUCH lower, and I assume investors won't see any money from the Epic deal. Has this been discussed? I would have been pissed if I paid 1000$ for investing this, in hopes of getting a return on my investment.
 

Deleted member 13148

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,188
I completely forgot FIG has investment options. This is really screwing investors, since I'd imagine sales in the Epic Store are going to be MUCH lower, and I assume investors won't see any money from the Epic deal. Has this been discussed? I would have been pissed if I paid 1000$ for investing this, in hopes of getting a return on my investment.
It's been confirmed that investors will get money from the Epic deal.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
I completely forgot FIG has investment options. This is really screwing investors, since I'd imagine sales in the Epic Store are going to be MUCH lower, and I assume investors won't see any money from the Epic deal. Has this been discussed? I would have been pissed if I paid 1000$ for investing this, in hopes of getting a return on my investment.
It has. They have since hurriedly posted that investors get paid out of the epic moneybags (I doubt they considered it in the first place).

How that revenue calculation goes, is entirely up in the air.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Paths? Why would you think kindly of others who support anti-consumerism? We are all consumers, why side with anti-consumer corporations?

Epic has clearly state that pushing for developers ahead of consumers is their way to reach the top.

Because I want to play the game and not wait a year for a Steam release that has features that don't override my ability to play the game. It's much better than timed exclusive deals on game consoles since I already own the hardware.

Like I said, feel free to express your opinion but don't be surprised if some of us aren't as vocal about it.

It's a shitty way of doing a crowd funding but I will support the game regardless.
 

Valdega

Banned
Sep 7, 2018
1,609
Mmmmm... Semantics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

That'll be what people - and myself - mean when they say "hateful".

Except that's way more specific than how you defined it in your previous post ("Hateful in common parlance is anything that is directing hate towards a group or individual"). Even then, it's not entirely accurate either. The Root wrote an article called "white people are cowards." It was an attack on a group of people on the basis of their race. However, if you're a regular reader of The Root, you likely agree with that claim and therefore, don't consider it hate speech.

A more accurate definition of hate speech is "any speech that criticizes anyone I empathize with."
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
JWCVc0B.jpg



The game being DRM free on Epic is an improvement to the situation. If we can download it once, and then won't need it again for additional installations.

I wish this had been the response from the start, frankly. I think this is an approach I can accept, though obviously I'm less perturbed by Epic than most of you all
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,624
Tel Aviv
Try putting games by less known devs on it. Maybe Epic will start to offer those devs money and exposure that actually need it.
You know, if Epic would just say "Hey, we gots the monies, if you have an interesting game and want us to help you, send it and we'll see" I actually wouldn't mind what they're doing as much. At least then I'd be able to say they actually have SOME positive impact on PC gaming.
 

Ebullientprism

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,529
I still feel like Epic arent considering this from all angles. Yeah its nice that you can have a game exclusive to your store. But all this negativity is just gonna be poison to their store.

It would have been so much simpler to give a significant discount and undercut Steam on pricing. Offer developers the full price and absorb the cost themselves.

$60 game on steam vs $40 game on Epic store and you would have had people jumping to use their store. Without any negativity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,165
I still feel like Epic arent considering this from all angles. Yeah its nice that you can have a game exclusive to your store. But all this negativity is just gonna be poison to their store.

It would have been so much simpler to give a significant discount and undercut Steam on pricing. Offer developers the full price and absorb the cost themselves.

$60 game on steam vs $40 game on Epic store and you would have had people jumping to use their store. Without any negativity.
See no that would be a form of moneyhatting that would it look at least superficially good and pass some value on to the consumer to increase Goodwill, that's far too intelligent for the level Epic is operating at.

No they're just going to make sure that their core audience fucking despises them.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,091
That seems threadworthy to me.

It's aparent by their actions that Epic have disdain for their desired userbase, but I wouldn't have expected them to come out and say it.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
You know, if Epic would just say "Hey, we gots the monies, if you have an interesting game and want us to help you, send it and we'll see" I actually wouldn't mind what they're doing as much. At least then I'd be able to say they actually have SOME positive impact on PC gaming.
No.

They won't do that. They'll only pay for things that present no risk. They'll let others take the risks.

I still feel like Epic arent considering this from all angles. Yeah its nice that you can have a game exclusive to your store. But all this negativity is just gonna be poison to their store.

It would have been so much simpler to give a significant discount and undercut Steam on pricing. Offer developers the full price and absorb the cost themselves.

$60 game on steam vs $40 game on Epic store and you would have had people jumping to use their store. Without any negativity.
There are a number of good ways they could have played this.

They intentionally chose the worst way possible and act like it was the only way. I've mentioned how they treat consumers like cattle, this is the way, if they think people have no agency when dealing bad consumer practices.
 
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Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,105
Epic is at the brute forcing phase, they are deadset on this and they have the money. Expect them to ramp up announcement of buying games, especially with E3 coming.

They will only slow down when they are 100% rejected by the market.
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,676
I still feel like Epic arent considering this from all angles. Yeah its nice that you can have a game exclusive to your store. But all this negativity is just gonna be poison to their store.

It would have been so much simpler to give a significant discount and undercut Steam on pricing. Offer developers the full price and absorb the cost themselves.

$60 game on steam vs $40 game on Epic store and you would have had people jumping to use their store. Without any negativity.
Valve has a "treat our customers fairly" rule, which would cover $40 vs $60 undoubtedly. Now, this doesn't appear to be particularly specified to mean setting end user price to be equal, so you could try to argue with them that "fair" means "I get $42" and set EGS price to $48, but you better lawyer up if you expect them to listen. Other stores may have, indeed, codified that they want the best end-user price. This can still be worked around, as presented by Humble and Nintendo (and maybe Ubisoft, not sure), implementing consumer loyalty programs to cut the price down a little - but only for returning consumers, so it's not an instant hook you're suggesting.
 

Clever Gato

Member
Oct 28, 2017
106
Epic is at the brute forcing phase, they are deadset on this and they have the money. Expect them to ramp up announcement of buying games, especially with E3 coming.

They will only slow down when they are 100% rejected by the market.
I feel like they'll gain quite a bit of traction if the Borderlands 3 rumors, that I posted above, were to occur.