PC Version of Phoenix Point (X-Com spiritual successor, crowdfunded game) 1 year exclusive to the Epic Game Store

Oct 25, 2017
1,160
Not trying to defend Epic here but they do support modding, don't they? There's the Conan Exiles dev kit, PixArk, ARK Editor and other stuff on their store.
 

rpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,364
Not trying to defend Epic here but they do support modding, don't they? There's the Conan Exiles dev kit, PixArk, ARK Editor and other stuff on their store.
You can download mod tools, that isn't the same as having a Steam Workshop-esque mod distribution platform. You have to distribute those Conan Exiles or Ark mods on NexusMods or where ever
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,506
Not trying to defend Epic here but they do support modding, don't they? There's the Conan Exiles dev kit, PixArk, ARK Editor and other stuff on their store.
Thats them having the game's editor tools on the client,

not an intergrated way to download and install mods into the game, like Steam Workshop.
 

rpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,364
Question: What percentage of pre-orders do you currently estimate have requested a refund already?

daedalus2 Business Guy 0 points 7 minutes ago
It's about 3%.
 
Oct 28, 2017
28
If the studio had to agree to Epic Game Store exclusivity, I wonder if they were in hard times to get more funding. I'd imagine them struggling to make decisions to get onto Epic Game Store in the first place and satisfied in the short time that somehow they made the deal, only to face harsh feedback from those who backed up their game.
 

rpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,364
If the studio had to agree to Epic Game Store exclusivity, I wonder if they were in hard times to get more funding. I'd imagine them struggling to make decisions to get onto Epic Game Store in the first place and satisfied in the short time that somehow they made the deal, only to face harsh feedback from those who backed up their game.
"Yes, we did expect some people to be upset by the Epic deal, and we did not make this decision lightly. We have enough resources to release the game, but the Epic deal will help the game enormously in terms of quality and post-release content. It helps give our employees security and gives them the confidence they can get the job done, despite the stress and high expectations."
- Julian Gollop

(emphasis mine)
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
Those specific games support modding.
You can download mod tools, that isn't the same as having a Steam Workshop-esque mod distribution platform. You have to distribute those Conan Exiles or Ark mods on NexusMods or where ever
You can download mod tools, that isn't the same as having a Steam Workshop-esque mod distribution platform. You have to distribute those Conan Exiles or Ark mods on NexusMods or where ever
I see! Thanks for correcting me. Yeah, Steam workshop is WAY better
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,422
China


Wow. They knew that their game was only possible due to backing of fans, where they promised Steam and GoG keys....


And then THEY approached Epic to ask for money in exchange for exclusivity. Betrayalton.
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,013
Deutschland
Q: Did you approach Epic, or did Epic approach you?

A: We approached Epic.



And in this answer, they explicitly say they had enough ressources to finish the game as is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/b0psjl/ama_with_julian_gollop_and_david_kaye/eiga8dn/


So, they went out of their to fuck over their own backers.
This is even worse than signing a deal that came to your doorstep.

Go fuck yourself.

€: Also, they haven't even fucking tried to deliver steam and gog keys for backers when signing the deal???

Go fuck yourself²³
 

rpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,364
Would be higher if they didnt make it so damn shady to get a refund.
What do you mean shady? You don't want to give your bank details to TransferWise? They have 9.2 out of 10 on TrustPilot! /s

Yeah, that 3% is almost assuredly the amount only through their shady method, wouldn't be surprised if more are trying to go through charge back, there's been a lot of talk about doing that on the subreddit
 
Nov 10, 2017
6,455
They just said only 3% of the backers requested a refund. :(
Saw that. 3% out of what percentage of backing $$ is what I'm interested in.

Outrage, especially on the internet, can be drummed up easily by smaller numbers.

Real test will be sales #s and future projects.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,896
What do you mean shady? You don't want to give your bank details to TransferWise? They have 9.2 out of 10 on TrustPilot! /s

Yeah, that 3% is almost assuredly the amount only through their shady method, wouldn't be surprised if more are trying to go through charge back, there's been a lot of talk about doing that on the subreddit
At that point i would just take a loss, and call it a day than handover my bank account info for what $60?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,005
3% is higher than i thought it would be honestly

most people dont follow any of this
Eeeeyup, especially given how the payment processing is supposed to work. They should have offered people some alternatives like a giftcard of their choice if regular return is not an option. Can't say I wouldn't prefer to see a higher number, but things are as they are.

BTW what the hell is up with people claiming their bank accounts can be cleaned just with a number? Is US still automatically enabling cheques?
 
Oct 27, 2017
225
If it was just 3% they wouldn't backpedal this much. They can say whatever they want there are no consequences for lying.
I was thinking the same thing, I mean he is talking about less than 300 backers (As per Fig there are 10600 backers). No reason to backpedal so fast trying to do damage control...
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
If it was just 3% they wouldn't backpedal this much. They can say whatever they want there are no consequences for lying.
I don't think that's necessarily true and i also don't believe in the idea that people actually go through with this stuff. Even with little refunds, this is a PR shitshow that will damage them forever going forward, so of course they would backpedal, even with low refunds (and i don't consider 3% to be low tbh)

And why would they lie about this when they didn't even lie about them going to epic which is total and utter bullshit from their part
 
Oct 31, 2017
594
MA
The fact that they approached Epic is nutty. And you don't even have any sort of clear concise messaging for your fanbase.

It's honestly pretty funny in a really messed up way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,651
USA USA USA
i mean there are plenty of groups of people you could probably put them in

people who have put in for a refund

(the 3%)

people who plan on chargebacks

(might not show up in their answer)

people who will be getting a refund but havent started the process yet
people who havent heard about any of this but after finding out will want a refund
people who werent going to get a refund but now will want to thanks to whatever this whole shit show is

(this can only go up)

people who want a refund but are put off by the process
people who dont remember even backing this game
people who dont keep up with the game at all and have no idea that any of this is happening

(maybe some of these will eventually ask for a refund later who can say, but i think this is going to be the largest group especially with the latter two)

people who are happy about this and champion the change
people who dont care and just want the game no matter what

(safe to say they will not want a refund)

i dunno theres a lot of different people who have different wants and needs in all of this

3% of my customers mad at me and only going to go up is i would think a lot in a product and service industry but i dont run a company what do i know
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,077
Does not seem worth it to me by fucking your loyal fans as well as ruining own reputation. Reputation goes a long way.
Does it? Julian's name is barely known these days, and his remaining fans did not prevent Chaos Reborn from bombing. Given the sheer number of indie devs who have failed on their next game after having a big hit, I don't think reputation means much at all unless you're a big developer/publisher who is able to market the name brand.

I don't disagree that there is a risk of alienating people over this, but how big of a deal is that for a small studio trying to make ends meet? It's either they don't take the deal and risk going out of business in the near term, or take the deal and risk going out of business down the road if the blow back on this deal is really that bad. The former is obviously far more of a worry than the latter.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,249
It's either they don't take the deal and risk going out of business in the near term
By their own admission they had enough funds to finish. The only reason to throw your existing and future customers under the bus for a payday, is if you have no confidence in what you produced.

At which point one should ask if anybody else should have confidence in their product.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,512
No-Mouse said:
So far, you've managed to develop the game in large part thanks to those who trusted you with their money and either backed your Fig campaign or pre-ordered the game from your site. Your fans have trusted you with their money based on the promises you made them, which explicitly include getting a GOG or Steam key. Without these people, you wouldn't have a game to sell to Epic in the first place. I'm aware that you no longer need these people, who were arguably your most loyal and devoted fans, because Epic is now paying your bills. But why are you choosing to show your contempt for the very people who put you on the map by denying them the deal they actually paid you for?

I can understand your decision to make the game exclusive to the Epic Game Store. I may not like it, I may think that exclusivity of any kind is inherently anti-consumer, but that's not my point. It's your right to sell your game however you see fit and if you value the money to expand your business over the fans that made your business possible in the first place, that's your choice to make. What I don't get is why you couldn't at least offer a Steam or GOG key to those who already funded your project, which was until very recently (and long after you must have started working on this Epic deal) explicitly advertised as being distributed through both GOG and Steam. If Metro could make it work for those who pre-ordered the game, why not Phoenix Point?

Simply put: Why are you refusing to give your fans what they paid for? And no, I don't consider giving us what we bought a year later to be an acceptable alternative.
daedalus2(Business Guy) said:
Answered this elsewhere, but here's the reason. Steam will not allow you to use their client to distribute a game if it isn’t also available for purchase via Steam. Since doing so would violate our agreement with Epic, we can’t do this. We are doing the next best thing, which is giving backers a Steam key in addition to the Epic key once the exclusivity period has ended.
ummm....
https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoi..._gollop_and_david_kaye/eigejr5/?context=10000