PC Version of Phoenix Point (X-Com spiritual successor, crowdfunded game) 1 year exclusive to the Epic Game Store

Oct 25, 2017
3,915
I can see the potential for future Fig pitches:

"We think our game will bomb, but don't worry invest in our game and we will sign a exclusivity deal with Epic securing you a sure return to your investment! “
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,206
The last decade has shown that people in general are pretty much ok with getting on board with shitty practices if they stick around long enough for people to get used to them

Lootboxes are maybe the only area where consumers manged to get any kickback and that was more down to EA pushing their luck and getting dangerously close to breaking gambling laws than anything else

We just have to hope that over time moneyhatting games doesn't grow the EGS to a point where it is sustainable and Epic decide to stop throwing money at it

That or it gains enough marketshare for them not to need to moneyhat anymore
True, but I feel that PC gamers in particular have done a pretty good job circling the wagons whenever a threat to the platform emerged. Off the top of my head I remember the industry trying to push people towards consoles, gfwl, Microsoft trying to monetize online, always on DRM, Windows 8/uwp. There's probably more. Granted, the demographics of PC gaming have changed, the platform is bigger than ever and not niche anymore, so it's true that the people willing to put up a fight are less percentage-wise. However, I still think that most PC gamers, even the mainstream ones, will be supportive because they recognize the importance of the platforms's uniqueness.
 

Cecil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
Looking forward to see more about that info as it comes from them.

It's somewhat good in the sense that there is now as base revenue that they know about.

But there's also the risk now that the game won't sell a single copy more then that, unless The Epic Store performs better then what people expect it to do now.

And that there sending out this after a done deal is still ludicrous to me. Maybe it's common in investment project, but I would have been far from happy with this myself as an investor.
 

Shengar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,024
Phoenix Point is rather niche and now all the spotlight it got is about being douche to its backers. That's a really great start right there Julian.

EDIT: Just read few pages back and Jesus Chirst, Julian Gollop is truly despicable.
 
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Shodan14

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,500
Just got this email:
Hello,

This e-mail is a confirmation that your refund request have been successfully recorded and will be processed within the timeframe set in the FAQ section.

In case you have questions, contact refer to e-mail set in FAQ section.

Best regards,
SnapShot Games Team
So at least the "offical" refund system requests are not going straight into a black hole.
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,703
For clarity to those not willing to follow the link, this is about refunding through Fig. That post's OP was initially asked about following the official instructions, but once TransferWise got pointed out Fig decided to process the refund by themselves.
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,388
So wait backers are getting multiple keys, 1 at launch on epic and 2 later down the line?.... sounds like I'll be able to find cheap super cheap copies down the line XD

I can see why people are butt-hurt but as they lose out on Steam features and that's why they backed it.
 

Shodan14

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,500
I wonder what are the chances they legit saw that they're running out of money and went to Epic (and whoever else) for a deal to finish the game?
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,703
I wonder what are the chances they legit saw that they're running out of money and went to Epic (and whoever else) for a deal to finish the game?
Their official claims are they didn't need it, they asked Epic about just showing up on EGS and received the timed exclusive offer.

Whether that's true, I don't know, but feels like too elaborate for cover story given their other communication.
 

Shodan14

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,500
Their official claims are they didn't need it, they asked Epic about just showing up on EGS and received the timed exclusive offer.

Whether that's true, I don't know, but feels like too elaborate for cover story given their other communication.
Yeah, I read that as well. Honestly, if that is the case then they pretty much have no excuse. I guess we'll see how it all works out in the end.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
6,347
a sunken pirate ship
We just have to hope that over time moneyhatting games doesn't grow the EGS to a point where it is sustainable and Epic decide to stop throwing money at it
My concern is that when people say things like "Well, this would be acceptable if it was their own IP involved" just means that they've gotten normalized to the same thing EA did with Origin -- outright buying out the companies that produced the games they wanted to have sold on there.

The idea that doing so represents a better deal for the end user in any way is absurd, since right now the Epic deals aren't exclusivity for these games in perpetuity or controlling stakes in the studios themselves. I don't expect to ever see Burnout Paradise Remastered on Steam, even if the first game was.

And don't forget about how Valve acquired the team from DigiPen that made Narbacular Drop in order to create Portal, the game that got the most critical praise out of everything on the Orange Box -- which you needed Steam to run on PC. I don't think anyone has to like EGS (especially with their privacy-violating antics) but the fact that this sort of exclusive distribution rights matter was an important step to how all these companies have set up their distribution stores can't be ignored, and I'm tired of lazy sarcasm about competition that brushes aside this history (which isn't a criticism at you, oni-link, to be clear, just the general shape of discourse around here).
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,090
My concern is that when people say things like "Well, this would be acceptable if it was their own IP involved" just means that they've gotten normalized to the same thing EA did with Origin -- outright buying out the companies that produced the games they wanted to have sold on there.

The idea that doing so represents a better deal for the end user in any way is absurd, since right now the Epic deals aren't exclusivity for these games in perpetuity or controlling stakes in the studios themselves. I don't expect to ever see Burnout Paradise Remastered on Steam, even if the first game was.

And don't forget about how Valve acquired the team from DigiPen that made Narbacular Drop in order to create Portal, the game that got the most critical praise out of everything on the Orange Box -- which you needed Steam to run on PC. I don't think anyone has to like EGS (especially with their privacy-violating antics) but the fact that this sort of exclusive distribution rights matter was an important step to how all these companies have set up their distribution stores can't be ignored, and I'm tired of lazy sarcasm about competition that brushes aside this history (which isn't a criticism at you, oni-link, to be clear, just the general shape of discourse around here).
I mean, you're right, but also first-party exclusives (and being bought out for the IP of first party exclusives) were normalised a long time ago. Like, you could argue Rare was the first company it happened to, in the console sector back in the early 2000s:

Rare was backed by an unlimited budget from Nintendo, primarily concentrated on Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) games. During this time they created successful titles such as Wizards & Warriors, Battletoads, and R.C. Pro-Am. Rare became a prominent second-party developer for Nintendo, who came to own a large minority stake of the company. During this period, Rare received international recognition and critical acclaim for games such as Donkey Kong Country, GoldenEye 007, Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, and Conker's Bad Fur Day.

In 2002, Microsoft acquired Rare, who retained their original brand, logo, and most intellectual properties. It has since focused on developing games exclusively for Microsoft's video game consoles. Their releases include Kameo: Elements of Power, Perfect Dark Zero and Viva Piñata.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_(company) )

So yes it sucks that exclusivity of IP is tied to a PC client or console - Demon's Souls on PC would've happened a long time ago if Sony didn't part-own the IP, right? - and that is actually a reason for more people to take a stand and be grumpy with Epic. Epic are normalising third party exclusives in a way that we haven't really seen since the PS1 or PS2 days, I think.
 

Decado

Member
Dec 7, 2017
576
Doesn't seem quite so bad since it is apparently DRM free and you can open the game in steam (I assume this means you can use all steam features like controller options and streaming). Biggest drawbacks are the lack of workshop support (not a hope in hell epic will get their shit together on that front anytime soon), and I guess achievements.

Not liking this still, but leaning back to "buy" if the game is great.
 

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,600
Austria
I recieved my refund confirmation from Snapshot. They are saying I should get my money back as soon as starting next monday.
Interesting thing - I also wrote to FIG regarding the refund and they referred me back to Snapshot Games since they can't handle refunds.
 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,336
I wonder if we'll ever find out the number of people who refunded after the EGS move. Not that it would effect development, but I'd like to see if Gallop and others hand waiving it away was more than a bit shortsighted
 

Kyougar

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,624
If I remember correctly, Fig investors get a cut from future sales, right?

So, even if they get a part of the epic moneyhat and guaranteed sales, they can still make a case about lost sales potential and start a class-action-lawsuit and argue that the game not being on Steam (and gog) day-1 will impact their potential cut of the sales on Steam.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,234
If I remember correctly, Fig investors get a cut from future sales, right?

So, even if they get a part of the epic moneyhat and guaranteed sales, they can still make a case about lost sales potential and start a class-action-lawsuit and argue that the game not being on Steam (and gog) day-1 will impact their potential cut of the sales on Steam.
Read the thread. Epic moneyhat counted as sales in the revenue box, so they get money from that.
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,703
If I remember correctly, Fig investors get a cut from future sales, right?

So, even if they get a part of the epic moneyhat and guaranteed sales, they can still make a case about lost sales potential and start a class-action-lawsuit and argue that the game not being on Steam (and gog) day-1 will impact their potential cut of the sales on Steam.
Read the thread. Epic moneyhat counted as sales in the revenue box, so they get money from that.
Eh, it's a little more complex than that depending on how big the payment was. One could hypothetically imagine that the game could sell extremely well on Steam but flop on EGS, outweighing the Epic's payment. On the other hand Fig's dibs on revenue are capped, so if Epic's payment was huge - say, ten times the Fig investor budget - it's possible it would overrule the sales concern itself (because investors wouldn't get more anyway).
 

Kyougar

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,624
Read the thread. Epic moneyhat counted as sales in the revenue box, so they get money from that.
Read my post ;) I addressed that.

If there is no maximum payout declared, Fig investors could argue that they would have gotten more money from Steam sales than the Epic moneyhat-money and guaranteed EGS sales combined.
doesn't matter if you get a 50.000$ payout from your piece of the Epic cake if your theoretical piece of the cake could have been 100.000$
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,234
Read my post ;) I addressed that.

If there is no maximum payout declared, Fig investors could argue that they would have gotten more money from Steam sales than the Epic moneyhat-money and guaranteed EGS sales combined.
doesn't matter if you get a 50.000$ payout from your piece of the Epic cake if your theoretical piece of the cake could have been 100.000$
Oh, nvm didnt read that part! I dont think they would be able as it seems most of the moneyhats are for more than any sales expectations, so it should cover those lawsuits.