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PCGamer opened a forum that prohibits users from talking about guns, religion, sexuality, abortion, politics, economics (up: policy taken down)

Kaelan

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
941
Maryland
I am pretty sure, from what i read on the twitter post, that the rules exclude ingame politics and ingame themes.

Usually forums dont allow real life politics, religion stuff etc because they are very sensitive subjects and they turn the discussions to shit posting and harassment.
not sure what forums you frequent. I’ve been a part of upwards of 50+ and never encountered a rule like that. It’s ignorant, and just dumb to create. I’ve also managed popular forums, it’s simply an idiotic decision to ban topics
that is ingrained into our culture and society.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,980
not sure what forums you frequent. I’ve been a part of upwards of 50+ and never encountered a rule like that. It’s ignorant, and just dumb to create. I’ve also managed popular forums, it’s simply an idiotic decision to ban content that is ingrained into our culture and society.
More over, banning it is actually stupid because discussion of anything can bleed into real world politics extremely easily, as art forms imitate life. Imagine if all MGS2 discussion was banned because Kojima was wierdly and specifically correct about meme culture and how it influences people in the real world.

The outright banning of these topics only hurts the credibility of the forum and makes the moderators job harder because now they have to comb through large topics and make the judgment call about whether or the discussion violates the forum's arbitrary rules about what can or cannot be talked about, even with the subject of the thread is about said forms of discussion. It just makes people not want to go there.
 

Sean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,393
Longview
After seeing countless people die on "keep politics out of my games" hills while using it to trash on minorities and diversity, it's pretty easy to imagine the kind of idiot who would write up something like GRAPES. Good job, PCGamer staff.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,528
Well, I love that there is no talk about sales. People are so obsessed with stats these days. Sales and Metacritic scores are the banes of meaningful conversations about the work. They reduce everything to a popularity contest.
 

Nekro

Member
Oct 30, 2017
42
I think its obvious that i havent played death stranding, not sur why you guys make fun of me. Yeah not a great game to prove my point. Its just imo that a great plot is one that leaves the player to make its own interpretations and real life connections, thats what art is for me and what i like about fiction.

If its a game about shoving to my face american and UK politics without been a little subtle then i am glad i know so i wont not play it. I have played metal gear games and of course there are politics in them but also they are quite a bit based on fiction (i like the mix). I am fine with historical themes and all time relevant themes. Fresh politics i kinda avoid.

Nothing wrong with politics in game, nothing wrong with discussing the politics in the game but discussing politics outside the game turns it into a shitfest, thats my opinion. I am fine with it on resetera because this is what resetera is, but not every forum has to bring political discussions, i think my opinion is very simple and straightforward.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,435
I think its obvious that i havent played death stranding, not sur why you guys make fun of me. Yeah not a great game to prove my point. Its just imo that a great plot is one that leaves the player to make its own interpretations and real life connections, thats what art is for me and what i like about fiction.

If its a game about shoving to my face american and UK politics without been a little subtle then i am glad i know so i wont not play it. I have played metal gear games and of course there are politics in them but also they are quite a bit based on fiction (i like the mix). I am fine with historical themes and all time relevant themes. Fresh politics i kinda avoid.

Nothing wrong with politics in game, nothing wrong with discussing the politics in the game but discussing politics outside the game turns it into a shitfest, thats my opinion. I am fine with it on resetera because this is what resetera is, but not every forum has to bring political discussions, i think my opinion is very simple and straightforward.
I mean Metal Gear games are saying a lot about a number of topics that are very relevant to modern day life (or what was modern day when the games were released) like American imperialism, war, nuclear proliferation, politicians undemocratically manipulating the political systems in countries like the US, etc. Just because it's wrapped up in a bunch of nano machine nonsense doesn't mean it's not there or that it isn't super obvious if you stop to give it a moment of thought
 

sdp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,370
I don't see a problem with this. Grapes should be more common in general, I'm tired of bickering.
 

Nekro

Member
Oct 30, 2017
42
I mean Metal Gear games are saying a lot about a number of topics that are very relevant to modern day life (or what was modern day when the games were released) like American imperialism, war, nuclear proliferation, politicians undemocratically manipulating the political systems in countries like the US, etc. Just because it's wrapped up in a bunch of nano machine nonsense doesn't mean it's not there or that it isn't super obvious if you stop to give it a moment of thought
Oh yeah, but those are subjects that are not very time specific (ok maybe not all) and are more general and timeless. You are right of course, kojima games are political, nothing wrong with it. I do enjoy them for reasons beyond politics tho lol. Politics in a videogame is probably the last thing i want to discuss, i am much more interested in the gameplay.
 

Slamtastic

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,954
Florida
A forum where you can't talk about your second amendment right to bear arms, your love for Jesus, or how hot the babes are in the newest DOA?

"PC"Gamer indeed.

(Obvious sarcasm)
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,980
I think its obvious that i havent played death stranding, not sur why you guys make fun of me. Yeah not a great game to prove my point. Its just imo that a great plot is one that leaves the player to make its own interpretations and real life connections, thats what art is for me and what i like about fiction.
This is correct.

Now imagine not even being able to have that discussion because the plot of a game directly or indirectly references on of these 5 subjects on a real world scale.

That's the problem here.

Like, real talk, how do you talk about, for example, COD: Modern Warfare there? Can't talk about the campaign, too political. Can't talk about the multiplayer, it involves gunplay. Can't talk about whether or not the dlc is worth buying, that's economics. Can't talk about their post release time line, that's ALSO economics.

These guidelines are stupid and are a bad attempt at stiffing conversation beyond hype trains.

They just want people to discuss (for example) the new THQ Nortic lineup, and not about how they hosted an AMA on a website that hosted child pornography. They want you to discuss (for example) how excited you are for Persona 5 Royal and not the fact that there's some egregious homophobia in that game that no one on staff wants to own, but that somehow makes it into all their games. They want you to discuss (for example) how hyped you are to play DQ11, and not the fact that their musical composer is a war crimes denier and a massive anti-LGBTQ advocate who laughed when a similar minded politician said that queer folk should be euthanized.

That's vapid AF.
 
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FairFight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
236
Chandler, AZ
Let’s be honest for a second. Nothing good can really be gained from talking about such decisive topics. Especially when so little pertains to gaming as a whole.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
13,572
Not America
I think people are obsessed with politics in video games tbh. I have no idea if death stranding is about trump and whatever but this kinda of stuff is what turn discussions from a game and its mechanics to a shitty discussion about politics and personal beliefs.

Also art is subjective, anyone can interpret it however they want. Some will see trump and brexit, some other will see something else entirely. If not then its not art and its a statement. I like to see games as art.
I have read some horseshit in my time but boy oh boy this takes one hell of a cake.

This is kind of shit that makes me absolutely abhor gamer culture- mired in myopia, self sustained by an echo chamber that is supported by the utterly insidious beliefs about games being inherently apolitical which is subsequently weaponized against gender and racial minorities as well from outside by corporate CYA shitgulping figureheads that espouse and propagate the same bullshit so as not to offend the fragile straight white majority who have been mollycoddled since the birth of the medium.

Every great art that endures is a symbol, a statement for or against something. So whenever someone says, Games are Art and Art is somehow not political, it makes me weep for the failure of an education system because it has failed to impart what "politics" at it core is defined as.
 

Eeyore

Member
Dec 13, 2019
868
I think people are obsessed with politics in video games tbh. I have no idea if death stranding is about trump and whatever but this kinda of stuff is what turn discussions from a game and its mechanics to a shitty discussion about politics and personal beliefs.

Also art is subjective, anyone can interpret it however they want. Some will see trump and brexit, some other will see something else entirely. If not then its not art and its a statement. I like to see games as art.
Death Stranding is about Trump bro. Kojima himself said so.
 

Funyarinpa

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,457
I have read some horseshit in my time but boy oh boy this takes one hell of a cake.

This is kind of shit that makes me absolutely abhor gamer culture- mired in myopia, self sustained by an echo chamber that is supported by the utterly insidious beliefs about games being inherently apolitical which is subsequently weaponized against gender and racial minorities as well from outside by corporate CYA shitgulping figureheads that espouse and propagate the same bullshit so as not to offend the fragile straight white majority who have been mollycoddled since the birth of the medium.

Every great art that endures is a symbol, a statement for or against something. So whenever someone says, Games are Art and Art is somehow not political, it makes me weep for the failure of an education system because it has failed to impart what "politics" at it core is defined as.
Thank you
 

RingRang

Member
Oct 2, 2019
1,248
I think it’s disingenuous to suggest you can’t talk about the video game industry while not talking about GRAPES.

Now does that mean no one should discuss GRAPES in relation to games? No. It just means that forum isn’t interested in being a home to such discussions.
 

Ser_Luke

Member
Apr 30, 2019
117
Without the context I don’t see how it needs to lead to right leaning like people are saying, I might get hate for this but I can kinda see where they are coming from. I hate modern politics, both sides right and left just seem to be coming up with new ways to demonize and insult the other side, no one wants to learn from anyone on the other side, no one wants to compromise, no want wasn’t to deviate from their party’s side, it’s just some never ending contest of who can make the other side look worse and I freaking hate it.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,497
I think it’s disingenuous to suggest you can’t talk about the video game industry while not talking about GRAPES.

Now does that mean no one should discuss GRAPES in relation to games? No. It just means that forum isn’t interested in being a home to such discussions.
There's almost no game worth discussing that you can actually discuss under these rules
 

Eeyore

Member
Dec 13, 2019
868
I think it’s disingenuous to suggest you can’t talk about the video game industry while not talking about GRAPES.

Now does that mean no one should discuss GRAPES in relation to games? No. It just means that forum isn’t interested in being a home to such discussions.
That forum isn't interested in talking about games. The people making the games care about this stuff and as a result this stuff will be in their products.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,497
Are you being serious? Not sure.
Let's look at some of the themes of the major games from last year:

Modern warfare: guns, politics
Death Stranding: guns, politics, religion, abortion
The Outer Worlds: guns, politics, religion, economics
Disco Elysium (big PC exclusive of the year): basically all of that

You see where I'm going with this? These games explicitly require discussion of these subjects, mind you. Basically every major game last year at least features some of these subjects, if not actively inciting debate about them.

A big part of games industry discussion involves economics too. Looking at company financials, consumer practices etc. The whole EGS debacle, which is one of the major conversation topics in PC gaming, is all about economics.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
13,572
Not America
Without the context I don’t see how it needs to lead to right leaning like people are saying, I might get hate for this but I can kinda see where they are coming from. I hate modern politics, both sides right and left just seem to be coming up with new ways to demonize and insult the other side, no one wants to learn from anyone on the other side, no one wants to compromise, no want wasn’t to deviate from their party’s side, it’s just some never ending contest of who can make the other side look worse and I freaking hate it.
Ah, the both sides argument has arrived.

There is something to be said about what ideas from what shade of the left is good fit for a general culture, however, I have yet to witness a single redeeming quality worth learning from the right.

So please, I'd love to know what ideas are worth considering that are from the right given much of the status quo in the world, from the role of women in society to the treatment of LGBTQ+ folks in both game (representation-wise) and IRL (and much more) are the legacy of the right.
 

Ser_Luke

Member
Apr 30, 2019
117
Ah, the both sides argument has arrived.

There is something to be said about what ideas from what shade of the left is good fit for a general culture, however, I have yet to witness a single redeeming quality worth learning from the right.

So please, I'd love to know what ideas are worth considering that are from the right given much of the status quo in the world, from the role of women in society to the treatment of LGBTQ+ folks in both game (representation-wise) and IRL (and much more) are the legacy of the right.
okay so since my post was about being tired of people on opposite political sides insulting and demonizing each other I take it you are fine with people doing this as long as they are leftists insulting conservatives? Where does it end? When will people make a stand and stop stooping to out insult the other?
 

RingRang

Member
Oct 2, 2019
1,248
Let's look at some of the themes of the major games from last year:

Modern warfare: guns, politics
Death Stranding: guns, politics, religion, abortion
The Outer Worlds: guns, politics, religion, economics
Disco Elysium (big PC exclusive of the year): basically all of that

You see where I'm going with this? These games explicitly require discussion of these subjects, mind you. Basically every major game last year at least features some of these subjects, if not actively inciting debate about them.

A big part of games industry discussion involves economics too. Looking at company financials, consumer practices etc. The whole EGS debacle, which is one of the major conversation topics in PC gaming, is all about economics.
I love Modern Warfare, but I’ve never thought of it as a game about guns and politics. To be fair, that’s probably because I’m mainly in it for the multiplayer.

All the other games you mentioned don’t interest me that much tbh. So yeah, the truth is I’m just one of those people who mostly plays games for the gameplay experience. If this forum said we could never talk about GRAPES again I’d just shrug my shoulders.

Also, I’d be curious to know if by economics they mean government economics, or in game micro transactions economics.
 

Horza

Banned
Jun 21, 2018
56
okay so since my post was about being tired of people on opposite political sides insulting and demonizing each other I take it you are fine with people doing this as long as they are leftists insulting conservatives? Where does it end? When will people make a stand and stop stooping to out insult the other?
It is in fact possible to warn and even ban users for repeated insults without prohibiting all discussion of socio-economic issues.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
13,572
Not America
okay so since my post was about being tired of people on opposite political sides insulting and demonizing each other I take it you are fine with people doing this as long as they are leftists insulting conservatives? Where does it end? When will people make a stand and stop stooping to out insult the other?
That's a nice deflection.

Insulting conservatives means jackshit when the structures pertaining to the interconnected governmental, sexual, gender, familial and economic politics, i.e. things that affects the lives of people, are tailored to benefit rich conservatives because the system was built by them.
 

Ser_Luke

Member
Apr 30, 2019
117
It is in fact possible to warn and even ban users for repeated insults without prohibiting all discussion of socio-economic issues.
It is, but how well does that usually end up working out on gaming forums? It usually ends up leaning to one side or the other because typically neither side wants to tolerate the other.
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,313
Places that implement rules like these intend it to be like a work place with people pretending to get along whether they like each other or not. Unlike a work place though people on a forum don't feel the need to tolerate others for the sake of collecting a pay check.
 

Ser_Luke

Member
Apr 30, 2019
117
That's a nice deflection.

Insulting conservatives means jackshit when the structures pertaining to the interconnected governmental, sexual, gender, familial and economic politics, i.e. things that affects the lives of people, are tailored to benefit rich conservatives because the system was built by them.
How was that a deflection when I was literally bringing it back to the point of my post? I disagree with a lot of things and people but I don’t see how insulting them helps further my ideals? I wasn’t even addressing the value of conservative or liberal ideas I was addessing how political discussions over social media tend to bring out the worst in people(Trump’s twitter account for example I have no idea why he’s not banned).
 

Ser_Luke

Member
Apr 30, 2019
117
Places that implement rules like these intend it to be like a work place with people pretending to get along whether they like each other or not. Unlike a work place though people on a forum don't feel the need to tolerate others for the sake of collecting a pay check.
is it though? One of my best friends and I have strong disagreements, but here’s the thing in the end we agree to disagree recognizing that in the end our friendship is more important, I can love my friend and still have major disagreements with them, how I wish that was more commonplace in online political discussions.
 

Horza

Banned
Jun 21, 2018
56
It is, but how well does that usually end up working out on gaming forums? It usually ends up leaning to one side or the other because typically neither side wants to tolerate the other.
I don't know, I'm one of those leftists going around insulting boring centrists who think you can discuss entertainment without looking at larger social issues.
 

Ser_Luke

Member
Apr 30, 2019
117
I don't know, I'm one of those leftists going around insulting boring centrists who think you can discuss entertainment without looking at larger social issues.
why insult people though? How does an insult actually help further your viewpoint? The most meaningful discussions I’ve had with people that made me reconsider some of my views were not done with insults, in-fact insulting someone is a sure way to shut down any potential conversation.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
13,572
Not America
How was that a deflection when I was literally bringing it back to the point of my post? I disagree with a lot of things and people but I don’t see how insulting them helps further my ideals? I wasn’t even addressing the value of conservative or liberal ideas I was addessing how political discussions over social media tend to bring out the worst in people(Trump’s twitter account for example I have no idea why he’s not banned).
You said that folks on one side don't listen to the other. I asked what are some redeeming ideologies that the right bring to the table because I have not found a single one yet.

Instead of providing an answer, you insinuate that I am implying that I am fine with leftists insulting conservatives. To that I say, what does it matters what insult people throw around the internet given that the systems that drive political engine is a legacy of the right wing.

At the least on this forum, there are moderators who will dispense with trolls unlike the greater segment of social media. But in the greater scheme of things, these discussions about politics in games have seldom any enduring effect on the systems that is rife with inequities. That is why people "discuss" this on "forums"- it's disseminating relevant information that yearns to change aspects of this medium for the better without having any actual political power (generally).