This should never be a thing. And if this is coming from corporate because of not meeting schedules and wanting to appease investors then this is just gross. 90 hour work weeks are inhumane and I feel terrible for people who have to do this.
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PCGamesN: W40k: Inquisitor - Martyr devs promise to work 90 hour weeks as apology for delay
- Thread starter Deleted member 873
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They weren't lazy. Projects taking more time than anticipated is very common in any industry.
Maybe those lazy devs who are doing the Dark Souls port should do the same /s
This is why you have this shit, because of moronic community members demanding it.
I really hope for the developers sake that they just complete it in a normal amount of time. Please, just don't do this to yourself.
This is why you have this shit, because of moronic community members demanding it.
I really hope for the developers sake that they just complete it in a normal amount of time. Please, just don't do this to yourself.
What?!? No! Theres never a reason to crunch like that. Push the date back, explain the situation to people, give people the option of doing 50 hours if you really want, but put restrictions in place to make sure they dont work more than that. And be totally okay with people wanting to see their kids and work 40. Crunching not only costs the company more, but it also means reduced productivity. Management feels like more progress is being made, but it actually doesn't help at all, infact I've seen it have a direct NEGATIVE effect on productivity.
Now that the word is out, no one is going to want to work there. Unless they get out in front of this fast, I think this will be this studios last game.
There's no need for this. I hope they reconsider and take their time. Nobody needs to risk personal health over an entertainment product.
Indie devs don't have it easy either, and i share this story often for threads like these. Stuff like this is a (sad) example of the pressure physically and mentally developers face and why i despise any comment resembling lazy devs so much. Like these people know what developers are going through when developing a game.
This is the story by the way: https://imgur.com/gallery/bGLAQ.
This is the story by the way: https://imgur.com/gallery/bGLAQ.
That's completely untrue. Maybe 80+ but even then it mostly depends on the type of work.
Sadly we live in a society where a lot of people work 2 or 3 jobs and they have to commute. I agree age 70 hours is unhealthy and reduces productivity but the alternative, hiring temps simply doesn't work for a project like this.
To maximize their revenue they probably need to make sure the game is not released too late in the summer. The fear of losing out on potential profits because they lack confidence of selling as well regardless of timing is driving this decision.
Added my two cents through Twitter. I've seen developer friends go through crunch and in some cases it nearly broke their mental health or killed them. I abhor the crunch culture in game development because of that. Especially if it turns out developers have to do it because of bad management and planning from the higher ups.
"The developers pledged (...)" or "Marketing pledged that the developers(...)"
Because, call me cynical, but ...I do not quite think that 90 hour weeks (that's 13 hours/day without any rest whatsoever) is something the devs would randomly decide was a reasonable thing to do.
Because, call me cynical, but ...I do not quite think that 90 hour weeks (that's 13 hours/day without any rest whatsoever) is something the devs would randomly decide was a reasonable thing to do.
I'm just going to keep a link to this thread for when people on this very forum start to complain again, about why game xy hasn't already been released yet/x months ago. Also every time you hear about devs "doing their utmost to get thing done/working really hard to do x" it's probably an euphemism for exaclty this. But then it's often pages about people praising the devs' effort and how dedicated they are to their project.
I'm just ranting, so it might be an overreaction.
I'm just ranting, so it might be an overreaction.
Don't do this.
There's a difference between criticizing a delay and calling devs lazy and asking them to work 90 hours a week.
That's slavery.
And that's someone trying to attack someone elses with not so good arguments. What's the point of tying this topic to another one?
Please tell me they have nice long breaks on those shifts as well as rooms where you can nap? I've heard of some places where you are allowed to work at your own pace. Mostly tech startups though. Hopefully this is like that because if not... It's not worth it. Please don't do this. I would actually feel bad for supporting devs who so openly and enthusiastically set the precedence that this is ok because even more devs might start to think the same and continue this stupid practice.
It's a very thin line many people aren't able to tackle adequately.
I don't even see how people's work can be effective at that point. I have about 9 hours of solid work in me before I start getting mentally exhausted. The constant problem solving and thinking isn't easy. A 90 hour week both my quality and speed of work would dive off a cliff.
Well yes, I don't disagree - people use "lazy devs" way too much and it's always stupid. But you can criticize stuff without asking for people being physically punished - many times it's just mismanagement and after the delay is announced it's just better to have the devs taking their time.
Crunch is expected when you're a dev but good planning and management should alleviate it...and common sense (but that's often the first casualty ofa development cycle).
Ninety hour working weeks is effin' stupid though and the quality of the work done under those conditions is bound to suffer.
Ninety hour working weeks is effin' stupid though and the quality of the work done under those conditions is bound to suffer.
Criticizing a delay is criticizing that a company does not put enough resources onto a project (as in: DIFFERENT PEOPLE) or set bad deadlines.
Criticizing THIS travesty is criticizing that a company does not put enough resources onto a project (as in: DIFFERENT PEOPLE) or set bad deadlines.
You THINK you are the one lone VOICE OF REASON that totally SEES THE TRUTH others don't see, but you are missing the forest for the trees in reality.
I've done crunch, and it's almost always caused by mismanagement from above, not "lazy devs".
Yes, there are people that are feeling so entitled that they think they can demand devs to do crunch so they get their games. Most people simply want companies to not plan in stupid ways instead.
Take ports: If they take forever, the problem isn't that the devs aren't working enough, it's usually that one dev team has to do all the work with zero support.
It can't. There have been studies that show that. Productivity goes down after certain thresholds.
Even common sense would tell employers this.
Of all the games to work overtime for, another licensed Warhammer game is the last thing that needs to get rushed out the door.
Hopefully the negative reaction they are seeing right now forces them to slow down. It's not worth the risk of someone ending up in the hospital.
Hopefully the negative reaction they are seeing right now forces them to slow down. It's not worth the risk of someone ending up in the hospital.
Honestly, as a developer it's quite refreshing to see this sort of response to developers responding to delays with absurdt promises of working hours that will only impact the game in a negative fashion. After reading the Dark Souls switch thread for example, it was quite infuriating to read ridiculous conspiracy theories, assumed malice and other (quite frankly ridiculous) responses to things we as developers struggle with every game project we ever make, because no matter how we try to get better at things that simply aren't really predictable, stone-set scope and date, limited resources (and long hiring & onboarding periods) mean that most projects struggle with delays, but crunch has a proven, highly likely negative impact on projects (for example the game outcomes research project is interesting material on the topic).
I think it's worth noting that for players it might not mean that much in the end (despite a vocal outcry), for developers it can very easily feel like not making the goals can outright kill the studio and put tens of people out of work. Just the mental pressure brought from developers themselves can very easily lead to crunch, even if the culture of a studio tries to avoid it. Most games projects unfortunately carry high stakes, because of polarized sales outcomes (which is common in the entertainment industry) and high upfront investment (even most mobile games carry a 5+ mil USD investment because of the increased production value competition, yet chances are less than 1/10 that it will be successfull even for some of the more veteran studios).
Oh, I also don't disagree with you. People just need be more careful/considerate when it comes to stuff like this.
Jesus Christ, devs, don't do this. I wouldn't wish that many weekly work hours on my worst enemy.
I understand how absolutely pie-in-the-sky such a reality would be, but I'd be perfectly happy being a gamer in an industry where every single developer and publisher was willing to take their time and make their products as good as possible. It's crazy to me that the smallest indie devs do this, and the biggest Blizzards and Rockstars do this, but if you're one of the many frontline devs in between those two worlds working on another Assassin's Creed or Battlefield game, then you just have to deal with whole chunks of your year being devoted to crunching for 50, 60, or 70+ hours a week. Imagine how relaxed release windows would be, and how crowded everything WOULDN'T be. I'd bet that by not having to pay out crazy overtime and bonuses to 100+ devs, and by simply not having a dozen publishers all try to release within the same two-week period, the money would even out. And if the products were better for it, sales would probably be even better.
I don't know. I'm not in business management, nor do I have any data to backup my assumptions about sales. It just seems like there's no real benefit to the way this industry treats its mid and low-level employees, and any perceived benefit would be easily matched or even beaten by raising the work-to-life standards a bit.
To the Inquisitor guys- I can't wait to your play game, but I'm perfectly happy to. Please don't kill yourselves and abandon your lives and families for a fucking product. Jesus titty fucking christ.
I don't know. I'm not in business management, nor do I have any data to backup my assumptions about sales. It just seems like there's no real benefit to the way this industry treats its mid and low-level employees, and any perceived benefit would be easily matched or even beaten by raising the work-to-life standards a bit.
To the Inquisitor guys- I can't wait to your play game, but I'm perfectly happy to. Please don't kill yourselves and abandon your lives and families for a fucking product. Jesus titty fucking christ.
You are right. It's just that people often forget to differentiate between the two situations you decribed. Or at least that's the impression I often get. So most of the time it's just people complaining since they're not getting their game when they want it and they don't really care what the actual reason is.
Er, Rockstar has a history of awful working conditions where they crunch alot - and Ubisoft and EA are actually known as some of the best places to work as a dev. And small indies definetly do crunch.
I really just don't understand what the hell is they're trying to achieve here. ANYONE who works in Software can tell you productivity drops like a rock during crunch. Hell, not even the 8 hours of a normal day are all productive. Some days, not even most of them. That's just not how this craft works, at all. The drop is exponential, too. After three days they'll barely be able to produce a half hour's work in an entire day.
And that's just the amount of work produced. When it comes to quality, the decline with tiredness happens earlier and is even steeper.
And that's just the amount of work produced. When it comes to quality, the decline with tiredness happens earlier and is even steeper.
well it's not like people don't go crazy when devs delay stuff (see the ridiculous reaction to dark souls switch being delayed) but yeah fuck that (and also fuck people that go crazy over delays), don't do 90+ hours weeks. Just don't.
Exactly. Lazy dev usually gets fired before long shit goes to the fan. But mismanagement from above usually can sort of get away with that mismanagement and distribute the punishment to every dev they need.
Source: I'm a software dev. I know the shit. But never experienced crunching before. Never will want to.
It's not the consumer's fault. Inability to meet deadlines is a management issue, not a developer, marketing or consumer issue.
Uh...how the fuck is that an apology?? Working yourselves to the bone?? Thats not healthy for the game nor is it healthy for the people who work on it.
uh being an asshole and creating theories and going 'the devs suck!!!' is definitely the consumer's fault.
i really hope you work 90+ hours week someday
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Jesus this is terrible. I can't imagine having to work a 90 hour week. Worked almost 70 once and said never again. I would most likely laugh in my bosses face if he even hinted about it.
Devs shouldn't have to do this. Take your time, work decent hours and release when your ready. Devs don't want to piss off their fan base, need to meet publisher demands and I understand they have to get paid but this is crazy.
Really puts things into perspective seeing stuff like this and causes me to look negatively at my hobby. I mean, we just had a thread with cats bitching and whining about the dark souls remaster delay, people feeling slighted and betrayed over that kind of shit need to fucking get over themselves. These are REAL people chewimg their lives away to get these games done. Give them some slack for the love of god.
Devs shouldn't have to do this. Take your time, work decent hours and release when your ready. Devs don't want to piss off their fan base, need to meet publisher demands and I understand they have to get paid but this is crazy.
Really puts things into perspective seeing stuff like this and causes me to look negatively at my hobby. I mean, we just had a thread with cats bitching and whining about the dark souls remaster delay, people feeling slighted and betrayed over that kind of shit need to fucking get over themselves. These are REAL people chewimg their lives away to get these games done. Give them some slack for the love of god.
I know that you are kidding but working overtime that much does not produce anything good for game (neither to dev). Dev might just be thinking in "when this will be over" all that time. There are some articles that prove that working like that for so many hours without rest does not produce anything of value.
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/288359
OP
OP
lol same here
Working 45 right now and it's already straining enough
