Pelosi to Progressive Colleagues: Stop attacking centrists on Twitter

JesseEwiak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
928
The last paragraph shows you fundamentally misunderstand the program. Shilling for small donations from average constituents is OK. You become accountable to them. Shilling for large donations from rich donors is not OK. You become disproportionately accountable to them.

If your premise above is true, then why are many senators in blue states center left or worse? Feinstein accurately represents the average California Democrat? Please. It's the money lebowski
Nah, I'm in favor of complete public financing for elections, but until that happens, I think the idea that a rich person can't support a progressive agenda is completely against the history of the country.

No, actually, it's the incumbency and institutional support, Lewboski. Kevin DeLeon ran against Feinsteinn last cycle, was an ardent left winger, got tons of money, tons of Internet support, and at the end of the day, in the general, Feinsteinn rolled over him, with the strongest support for the leftist challenger to DeLeon coming from...Republicans.

This is a pretty good understanding of politics as they are, and the vast majority of Leftists do not deny any of this. Where it fails is that most Leftists wish to take the gamble of flaking off the loosely-attached center-right moderates and trying to activate the 50+% of the country that DOESN’T vote by making politics look less like a minor rearrangement of furniture and genuinely offering a transformative path forward.

The acceptance of non-voters as forever non-voting is, I think, one of the more frustrating and probably insuperable divides.
All actual polling of non-voters show they're only a tick to the left of the voting population, but also, the vast vast majority of them are either completely apathetic or completely turned off to politics for reasons far beyond a leftist campaign would be able to do. There is no secret cadre of socialists waiting for the revolution, but otherwise, not getting involved in politics/

Also, I'm going to note that the only candidate in 2016 to actually turn out large numbers of former non-voters wasn't Bernie, since ya' know, the 2016 Democratic Primary had lower turnout than the 2008 primary that involved neoliberal sellout corporate shill Barack Obama, but Donald Trump, who turned out new voters in the primary and general election, who were enthused about his open racism and sexism.

to people like Jesse, the primary role of minorities is to make them feel good about themselves, their own wokeness, and their partisan loyalty to the Democratic Party. When minorities fail to do these things, you can do whatever you like to them
Well, if by "minorities", you mean "leftist minorities who support the same things you do," not say, former civil rights heroes who were attacked as neoliberal shills for daring to endorse Hillary and in the most terrible crime of all, not remembering Saint Bernard of Vermont marching for civil rights, ya' know, before he went off to a commune in 99% white Vermont to not work til he was 40.
 

SuperL

Member
Nov 27, 2017
230
If you rail against Bernie Sanders for being too old for President, but are OK with Pelosi being older than Methuselah and Speaker, you are a hypocrite of the most despicable kind.
 

Apharmd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,885
AOC goes right at the core of the problem in the full quote:

“When these comments first started, I kind of thought that she was keeping the progressive flank at more of an arm’s distance in order to protect more moderate members, which I understood,” Ocasio-Cortez told The Washington Post. “But the persistent singling out . . . it got to a point where it was just outright disrespectful . . . the explicit singling out of newly elected women of color.”
WoC remain a prop for white libs when they want to do magazine covers, but actually have their own policy positions that aren't in lockstep with the establishment is a bridge too far.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,920
If you rail against Bernie Sanders for being too old for President, but are OK with Pelosi being older than Methuselah and Speaker, you are a hypocrite of the most despicable kind.
That one's easy. In the legislative branch, if a leader goes senile, gets sick, goes crazy, or dies, they can be replaced in the span of a day. Age is not as big of a concern.

A senile or sick president is a different matter because there's so much power invested in one person and the job is so much more stressful. I'm not supporting Biden and Sanders for president for many reasons, and age is definitely one of the smaller ones. (I'd be worried about Pelosi's age if she were president, too.)
 

JesseEwiak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
928
AOC goes right at the core of the problem in the full quote:



WoC remain a prop for white libs when they want to do magazine covers, but actually have their own policy positions that aren't in lockstep with the establishment is a bridge too far.
Representative John Lewis has something to say about what leftists respond to a Person of Color who has policy positions that isn't in lockstep with BernieWorld.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,209
Representative John Lewis has something to say about what leftists respond to a Person of Color who has policy positions that isn't in lockstep with BernieWorld.
And that is?

To be clear, I know what he said, but you could at least actually use his actual words when evoking him to shut down other PiCs
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,858
AOC goes right at the core of the problem in the full quote:



WoC remain a prop for white libs when they want to do magazine covers, but actually have their own policy positions that aren't in lockstep with the establishment is a bridge too far.
Yep. This isn't some new thing. Pelosi has been doing this for months.

They put us in photos when they want to show our party is diverse. However, when we ask to be at the table, or speak up about issues that impact who we are, what we fight for & why we ran in the first place, we are ignored. To truly honor our diversity is to never silence us.
So true. They're just props. And when they decide to speak out amidst this wave of fascism and evil, they're essentially told to know their place and stfu. While the more conservative members get to freely lob bombs at them and shit on basically all progressive ideals using the exact same language

Shameful shit.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,138
That Rashida tweet kept popping up in my head during this, because I think it's far worse, in terms of criticism, than anything AOC has said now but it didn't get a fraction of the coverage or play in the media.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,101
Brooklyn, NY
Well, if by "minorities", you mean "leftist minorities who support the same things you do," not say, former civil rights heroes who were attacked as neoliberal shills for daring to endorse Hillary and in the most terrible crime of all, not remembering Saint Bernard of Vermont marching for civil rights, ya' know, before he went off to a commune in 99% white Vermont to not work til he was 40.
I don't know how you thought that was supposed to rebut my point rather than confirm it, but thanks for doing the latter.

relatedly, I've noticed that the Venn diagram of "liberals who constantly accuse people to their left of being sexist/racist/only caring about cishet white men" and "liberals who stayed silent about and/or supported Democratic leadership's smear campaign against a black Muslim woman earlier this year" is a near-perfect circle. Huh, wonder why!

What did he say exactly? Make your counterpoint plainly, instead of trying to throw shade.
when you get called out on your obvious contempt for minorities who don't share your own love of the Democratic establishment and hatred of the left, invoke the ultimate trump card: John Lewis, King of All PoC, whose perspective instantly invalidates all other PoC's views. That's how it works, right?
 
Last edited:

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
860
When Biden was getting raked over the coals for his idiotic praise of working with segregationists, Biden defenders on social media would trot out John Lewis as a defense for Biden, as if he's some all encompassing shield. I deeply respect the man and am grateful to him for all the work he's done for us PoC, but John Lewis' opinion isn't the end all be all point of view for PoC. We aren't, and never has been, a monolith. Unironically name dropping John Lewis here reminds me of the tactic of quoting MLK by disingenuous fuckboys to use as a bat to beat PoC over the head with and as some "gotcha."
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,101
Brooklyn, NY
When Biden was getting raked over the coals for his idiotic praise of working with segregationists, Biden defenders on social media would trot out John Lewis as a defense for Biden, as if he's some all encompassing shield. I deeply respect the man and am grateful to him for all the work he's done for us PoC, but John Lewis' opinion isn't the end all be all point of view for PoC. We aren't, and never has been, a monolith. Unironically bringing up John Lewis here reminds me of the tactic of quoting MLK by disingenuous fuckboys to use as a bat to beat PoC over the head with and as some "gotcha."
yup. it's effectively the same cheap rhetorical gambit as invoking "but Bernie marched with MLK" to dismiss any criticism of Bernie's approach to race, and I somehow doubt Jesse here approves of that
 

Zelas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,801
When Biden was getting raked over the coals for his idiotic praise of working with segregationists, Biden defenders on social media would trot out John Lewis as a defense for Biden, as if he's some all encompassing shield. I deeply respect the man and am grateful to him for all the work he's done for us PoC, but John Lewis' opinion isn't the end all be all point of view for PoC. We aren't, and never has been, a monolith. Unironically name dropping John Lewis here reminds me of the tactic of quoting MLK by disingenuous fuckboys to use as a bat to beat PoC over the head with and as some "gotcha."
Which is why you and others should be addressing AOC’s baseless statements that Pelosi is singling out women of color. AOC doesnt represent us all either. People clinging to that statement should be reminded that there are several women of color under Pelosi who aren’t being singled out.

Bringing up race at all is just another lazy and reckless strategy to avoid accepting the reality that her tactics aren’t immune to failure.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,942
Which is why you and others should be addressing AOC’s baseless statements that Pelosi is singling out women of color. AOC doesnt represent us all either. People clinging to that statement should be reminded that there are several women of color under Pelosi who aren’t being singled out.

Bringing up race at all is just another lazy and reckless strategy to avoid accepting the reality that her tactics aren’t immune to failure.
But there's evidence of Pelosi singling out that very demographic.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,241
Which is why you and others should be addressing AOC’s baseless statements that Pelosi is singling out women of color. AOC doesnt represent us all either. People clinging to that statement should be reminded that there are several women of color under Pelosi who aren’t being singled out.

Bringing up race at all is just another lazy and reckless strategy to avoid accepting the reality that her tactics aren’t immune to failure.
What garbage is this statement? Why don't you tell us how you really feel about AOC rather than dance around it.

And FYI I don't know if Nancy is racist as I don't have a magic ball into her mind. But her repeatedly throwing these four under a bus and refusing to do anything even when there lives are threatened (and this isn't just AOC btw, lest we forget the horrid treatment the DNC treated Omar) makes it so I don't really care if she's racist or not since she seems to be acting like one in any case either actively or from inaction.
 

Apharmd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,885
when you get called out on your obvious contempt for minorities who don't share your own love of the Democratic establishment and hatred of the left, invoke the ultimate trump card: John Lewis, King of All PoC, whose perspective instantly invalidates all other PoC's views. That's how it works, right?
Yeah, that's some bullshit, you know? Liberals constantly play the Lewis card, or some out-of-context MLK quote, and expect other PoC to sit down and shut up and get back in line to obediently support the establishment Dem du jour. John Lewis did good work with civil rights, but that doesn't make him infallible or invalidate the different perspectives of other PoC.

We're not a monolith and John Lewish sure as fuck does not speak for all black America.
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
3,776
Pelosi more willing to take her own Democrats than Republicans....primary her ass out.
 

fick

Member
Nov 24, 2018
1,103
I guess we're back to "both sides" shit. Was a nice couple of years.

Fuck the establishment up and down
 

Middleman

Member
Jun 14, 2019
278
Why don't AOC and the skwad run as independents if their ideologies are so misaligned with Democrat leadership?
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,284
Sydney
Imagining the good normal reactions from the Democratic Party if AOC and Omar and Tlaib broke away from the party and made their own which split the left wing vote
 

Znazzy

Member
Aug 27, 2018
439
Which is why you and others should be addressing AOC’s baseless statements that Pelosi is singling out women of color. AOC doesnt represent us all either. People clinging to that statement should be reminded that there are several women of color under Pelosi who aren’t being singled out.

Bringing up race at all is just another lazy and reckless strategy to avoid accepting the reality that her tactics aren’t immune to failure.
PREACH!! I have to constantly remind myself that ERA and Twitter aren’t representative of the Democratic Party or else I’d go insane.
But there's evidence of Pelosi singling out that very demographic.
She’s calling out people who share the same views and continuously attack centrists on Twitter who happen to be WoC. But then other democratic members call out how that notion is ridiculous but their opinions don’t matter. So our opinions only matter when they align a certain way. Got it.
 

Chirotera

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
She's also not saying don't criticize. Shes saying dont blast your colleagues on twitter.... which is pretty standard protocol for professionals in pretty much every other line of work.
Maybe if they weren't so goddamned feckless they wouldn't have a target on their backs. They are complicit in Trump's bullshit, as far as I am concerned.