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Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
Agreed, but it is hard to not be seen as pro when passing bills that support said camps.
I think the most infuriating thing about the moderates voting for that bill is not even that they were putting forward an argument based on their convictions that this bill was the right way to go forward, but that it was their quickest way out of DC in time for Fourth of July recess. I mean really, fuck right off with that.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
This needed to be said. You don't get to blast other people in public like this and expect them not get pissed off or ignore it and vote with your. That isn't just how politics work. That's not how fucking life works. If someone I worked with blasted me on twitter or facebook I damn well wouldn't be smiling in their face the next day at work or even want to work with them. There is a level of fucking common decency that needs to be at play here and some freshman have no sense of it. That shit would not fly in any job!!



She's asking progressive house members not to call out or blast fell democratic members in public over topics. Which is what some are doing. Blast conseratives all the want. You don't attack the very people that will be your allies. That is a big problem many of the left have. I've said so in the past. It is beyond stupid to be protesting house members, leadership or even those running for President when they actually support your topics.

Given that Pelosi threw Ilhan Omar under the bus to the point where she created a bill that was to silence her, she has no weight to stand on the "decorum" front.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
"Pelosi told Democrats not to make the Blue Dog Coalition their targets and instead criticize her publicly if they need to go after someone."

Well, people are certainly doing that, Nance. I guess she's really concerned about the Blue Dogs keeping their seats.

Because the "blue dogs" are the reason we have a majority and the reason we won 40 seats in 2018
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
"So, again, you got a complaint? You come and talk to me about it," Pelosi told Democrats, according to a source in the room. "But do not tweet about our members and expect us to think that that is just ok."

Well I hope someone pointed out that the tweets aren't sent to make the recipient think everything is OK.

If noone did this well this party is going to screw themselves in the long run because they can't discuss basic conflicts like this.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
Hey don't blast them on twitter, but doing it in articles is totally ok.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Is Pelosi suddenly going out and calling Pressley or AOC "anti-American communists" or something? Sniping/venting frustrations from the left end of the caucus towards the middle, middle towards the left, members towards leadership, leadership towards members, etc. - that's all going to happen and is normal. We just had Tilab and Pelosi's staff sourced in a NYT article on that topic regarding the recent funding bill and the breakdown of the House's negotiating position. Per the article, there was a specific issue Pelosi was subtweeting.
Dude, we all know what this is about. If you want to act dumb about it be my guest but you're insulting my intelligence when you try your act on me.

I swear if a test asked you what 2+2 equal you would argue that it doesn't equal 4 because the test never specifically said that it did.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
While that is how they felt (and might be the case), there is also this from the article:

So we are all sort of guessing.
Any time an issue emerges with an individual house rep, Pelosi's response has been to go wide and generic with her response even when people know who/what is triggering It and causing the response. It's been a pattern for the entirety of her current speakership so far where she avoids individual callouts on serious issues unless its absolutely necessary.
Pelosi pulled a bill out of her ass to put down Ilhan Omar and threw her under a bus (which I guess is better than Schumer who openly mocked her). So yeah I'd still put that on a higher level than "mean tweets".
This is an example of what I'm talking about above, yes. When Pelosi's responding to an intra-caucus dustup, going wide is her playbook.
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,176
Toronto
the inference was made by the Dems who attended the meeting and spoke to Politico, not by people who read the article.
Again, you're mismatching the article's quote from Kirblar's adamant claim.

Kirblar claims that it is definitely a response to x and y and *ONLY* to x and y because some dems took it to mean a response to x and y. The article more accurately describes that yes some dems took Pelosi's comment as a response to x and y, but definitively Pelosi's staff says this is not the case and that it is a general statement that may also apply to w and z.

Adamantly saying the statement is ONLY about x and y and insulting others for suggesting it also applies to w and z flies entirely against the article which says just that and it's disingenuous.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Any time an issue emerges with an individual house rep, Pelosi's response has been to go wide and generic with her response even when people know who/what is triggering It and causing the response. It's been a pattern for the entirety of her current speakership so far where she avoids individual callouts on serious issues unless its absolutely necessary.

This is an example of what I'm talking about above, yes. When Pelosi's responding to an intra-caucus dustup, going wide is her playbook.

How is that "going wide"? It was a direct attack against Omar, and the most aggresive she's ever been, something she doesn't show compared to her actual opposition party.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
I take it you're not American, because this is a horrible idea that suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of how the system works. Running as a third party would guarantee her failure.
I almost hope they are American because I would hate to think any Brit or European would be extolling the virtues of a multi-party system in 2019 while their countries are being taken over by nationalist far-right fringe parties exploiting the fracturing of the left/center-left wings.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,071
"Pelosi told Democrats not to make the Blue Dog Coalition their targets and instead criticize her publicly if they need to go after someone."

Well, people are certainly doing that, Nance. I guess she's really concerned about the Blue Dogs keeping their seats.

She's concerned about *everyone* keeping their fucking seats.

It's popular (and warranted, to a degree) to be critical of how Pelosi is handling her speakership, but you guys have to remember who the enemy here is: The GOP. Not the centrists, not the far left.

It's not the AOCs that are going to be in danger of losing their seats, is it? If we want to see any meaningful change at the federal level you better take the POTUS and Senate at the bear minimum... And that might not even be enough!
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
This "think about the children" angle does not work man. I'm sorry but it doesn't. I think it's an atrocity as well. However, they will see it as you trying to manipulate them and their vote more so than you actually altruistically caring for these children. This political guilt tripping is what sends some people off to the other end. Some people are worth swaying some aren't. This is the truth.
That mindset is no one else's fault but their own. Whether people like it or not that is the reality and there is no sugar coating it to make it seem less manipulative. It sounds like a guilt trip because we as a country through apathy and enabling are guilty of breeding this humanitarian crisis. People should be fucking ashamed that this is happening in our country. There is no way to actually talk about the fact of this internment of children in a way that is more palatable and if someone chooses to shrink when being confronted on that then there isn't a magical way to sway or convince them in the first place.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Ah yes those incredible losses of *checks notes* Stealing two supreme court seats and holding majorities in the houses for years and winning the presidency.
They lost Eric Cantor's seat because they replaced him with a Tea Party goon in the Tea Party heyday, who then got beaten by a moderate D in this past election cycle. It's the exact same issue the Dems faced this past year with Eastman/McGrath likely losing the party elections by being too far to the left for their district, except it's on a much larger scale. It didn't stop them from being overall winners, but it did hurt them at the margins in ways that made them more vulnerable in 2018 than they should have been.
How is that "going wide"? It was a direct attack against Omar, and the most aggresive she's ever been, something she doesn't show compared to her actual opposition party.
Because the response never called out Omar specifically even though people knew what it was about, similar to how Reps believe this is specifically about Pocam even though his name was never mentioned.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Dude, we all know what this is about. If you want to act dumb about it be my guest but you're insulting my intelligence when you try your act on me.

I swear if a test asked you what 2+2 equal you would argue that it doesn't equal 4 because the test never specifically said that it did.
This is literally every kirblar post in politics on this forum.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
ERA: "We need a 50 state strategy in order to get progressive policy done!"

2018 election where candidates of various states and districts are elected and represent a wide array of views of their constituents which doesn't perfectly meld with their own personal liberal / leftist stances

images
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the left needs to take the party hostage the way the right took over the NRA
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
ERA: "We need a 50 state strategy in order to get progressive policy done!"

2018 election where candidates of various states and districts are elected and represent a wide array of views of their constituents which doesn't perfectly meld with their own personal liberal / leftist stances

images
This post looks comically stupid when the underlying issue of disagreement is literal child concentration camps.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
How is that "going wide"? It was a direct attack against Omar, and the most aggresive she's ever been, something she doesn't show compared to her actual opposition party.

Kirblar has previously argued that Omar brought it on herself by hiring One of Those Awful Leftists as a comms person and engaging Lowey and Engel on Twitter, ignoring the fact that these are two of the highest-ranking Democrats in Congress, that both had already swiftly responded to the "allegiance to a foreign country" controversy by condemning Omar and falsely accusing her of invoking the "dual loyalties" trope, and that there was no chance at that point that Pelosi and Hoyer would let her off the hook, regardless of what she did or didn't say on Twitter.

dude is always desperate to find a way to deflect blame away from the Democratic establishment and onto the leftists he hates, it's so transparent
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
The liberal side of the party has the luxury of spouting off on Twitter. The Democrats who have to represent districts that are 50/50 split don't. The liberal side continues to alienate themselves into irrelevancy.

The most important vote a member of Congress makes each session is the one for Speaker. Which is why keeping a majority is so important. The liberals would rather lose the majority than actually come to the table and negotiate. I don't understand how their tactics benefits anyone other than the republicans who are salivating at the thought of taking back those swing districts.


Why do you think torture camps is a partisan issue in these swing states? The people who voted in the centrist democrats don't give a damn about the border.

Why does anyone need to be less proactive in fixing this specific issue while carefully managing the ones these voters do care about (healthcare, taxes and job security)
 

BackLogJoe

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,214
Ahhhhh yes.

We very likely have one more election to try to deal with the environment in a manner that could actually be beneficial to our kids.


Perfect timing for the Democrats to implode and hand the election to Trump.
 

killdatninja

Member
Oct 26, 2017
623
She's concerned about *everyone* keeping their fucking seats.

It's popular (and warranted, to a degree) to be critical of how Pelosi is handling her speakership, but you guys have to remember who the enemy here is: The GOP. Not the centrists, not the far left.

It's not the AOCs that are going to be in danger of losing their seats, is it? If we want to see any meaningful change at the federal level you better take the POTUS and Senate at the bear minimum... And that might not even be enough!

Is this the patented Pelosi Master plan? Wait every 4 years and hope they have won enough seats to maybe do something? Because if it is, it's a fucking joke of a plan.

She's not trying to change shit, she just wants everything to revert back to how things worked pre-Trump. But guess what? There is no going back, so either do something or get the fuck out the way and let someone else who's willing to do the work.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,495
Miami
The GOP keeps taking Ls due to not being willing to compromise. The Tea Party proved to be a disaster for the GOP in the last decade, as they repeatedly throw away winnable seats in exchange for ideological purity.
Sure they do. Many moderate republicans ran on a a silent trump platform. Most of them lost which left behind mainly far right crazy assholes to toe the republican line.
It's clear that they chose the wrong strategy, they could have just run on a platform of bucking Trump and done absolutely nothing like this group of miscreants have.

Willingness to compromise appears to have gotten us a lot of Dems in name only if they don't intend to uphold time honored Democratic principles like not funding concentration camps.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,071
Is this the patented Pelosi Master plan? Wait every 4 years and hope they have won enough seats to maybe do something? Because if it is, it's a fucking joke of a plan.

She's not trying to change shit, she just wants everything to revert back to how things worked pre-Trump. But guess what? There is no going back, so either do something or get the fuck out the way and let someone else who's willing to do the work.

She's following the same blueprint that led to the blue wave... Condemn Trump, but don't only condemn Trump, and focus on healthcare and wealth inequality.

Kinda stupid to criticize this strategy as it helped win the House and almost 10 governerships.

Infighting is not what the party needs right now.
 

Dartastic

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,779
Is this the patented Pelosi Master plan? Wait every 4 years and hope they have won enough seats to maybe do something? Because if it is, it's a fucking joke of a plan.

She's not trying to change shit, she just wants everything to revert back to how things worked pre-Trump. But guess what? There is no going back, so either do something or get the fuck out the way and let someone else who's willing to do the work.
Ding ding. She had a telling quote the other day about how she's been "fighting for health care for 30 years" or something like that. If she's been fighting for thirty years and she hasn't succeeded, she's failed. It's time for new leadership.
 

Uncle at Nintendo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Jan 3, 2018
8,598
Liberals: How is it that conservatives are able to rally around candidates, no matter who or how shit they are, to great success at all levels of government?!

Also liberals: Destroy centrists! Don't tell me not to eat my own, you aren't my mom!

This shit just isn't true. Conservatives shit on republicans all the time for not being "conservative enough". GOP primaries are often way more dirtier than Dem primaries as well.
 

Jexhius

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
965
Failing Nancy Pelosi tells the future to shut up and stop complaining about what a shit job centrist Dems are doing.

Shouldn't she busy cutting more deals with Republicans to keep the kid camps open and running?
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,071
Ding ding. She had a telling quote the other day about how she's been "fighting for health care for 30 years" or something like that. If she's been fighting for thirty years and she hasn't succeeded, she's failed. It's time for new leadership.

That's... Not how this works?

She won the fight. Do you not recall that her version of the healthcare bill included universal healthcare? The one that the House passed? Do some reading.

It's not her fault that the GOP is hell-bent on destroying the ACA and everything it could do. You're aiming your vitriol at the wrong goddamn target.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Is this the patented Pelosi Master plan? Wait every 4 years and hope they have won enough seats to maybe do something? Because if it is, it's a fucking joke of a plan.

She's not trying to change shit, she just wants everything to revert back to how things worked pre-Trump. But guess what? There is no going back, so either do something or get the fuck out the way and let someone else who's willing to do the work.
Feel the exact same. Just like her "Twitter world" bullshit, whining about what people are doing on Twitter seems to be paramount in her mind instead of the actual work needing to be done to protect people.
 

Socivol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,674
Honestly fuck Nancy Pelosi. I get that moderates need to be a thing for Dems to win but that shouldn't shield them from public criticism on any platform.
 

RoninZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,752
This needed to be said. You don't get to blast other people in public like this and expect them not get pissed off or ignore it and vote with your. That isn't just how politics work. That's not how fucking life works. If someone I worked with blasted me on twitter or facebook I damn well wouldn't be smiling in their face the next day at work or even want to work with them. There is a level of fucking common decency that needs to be at play here and some freshman have no sense of it. That shit would not fly in any job!!



She's asking progressive house members not to call out or blast fell democratic members in public over topics. Which is what some are doing. Blast conseratives all the want. You don't attack the very people that will be your allies. That is a big problem many of the left have. I've said so in the past. It is beyond stupid to be protesting house members, leadership or even those running for President when they actually support your topics.

Then the Speaker should practice what she preaches, she doesn't get to call out freshman reps in a interview and not expect a response. She should have voiced her criticisms privately.
 

Maolfunction

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,871
the concentration camp angle is a rather irrelevant appeal to emotion in criticizing Pelosi. She doesn't have the power to close them down or get rid of them. Even if she was right there with the Squad, she gets nothing accomplished about the existence of the camps, and all she would get out of such a position is not standing with the majority of the Democratic Party.

the Senate bill had bipartisan support. She even tried to fight it by getting an amended bill with guaranteed protections passed in the House which McConnell immediately rejected.

She has no power there, and as a leader, she doesn't have the ability to take a stance that the majority of her party disagrees with. Thems the bites of belonging to a party. And she would have never gotten to be Speaker if she was the type of person that disagreed with her party all the time.

The Democratic party as a whole dropped the ball on this issue. Primarily in the Senate where there wasn't even an attempt to twist McConnell's arm on it. There's little point in zeroing in on Pelosi over it.
 

UF_C

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,352
It's clear that they chose the wrong strategy, they could have just run on a platform of bucking Trump and done absolutely nothing like this group of miscreants have.

Willingness to compromise appears to have gotten us a lot of Dems in name only if they don't intend to uphold time honored Democratic principles like not funding concentration camps.
Our government was formed based on compromise. Compromise isn't the problem. It's the complete lack of compromise from both sides that is the problem.

None of the liberal policies are going anywhere with Trump in power. Pelosi knows this. However, there is a chance that more liberal policies can be embolden should a Democrat best trump. But what good is beating Trump if Democrats lose the House? Pelosi is telling her caucus to stop infighting and stop alienating the very folks that will allow for a more liberal agenda to succeed come next year. With a Dem President, many of the moderate Dems will get run over, but for now you need them to survive until them.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Kirblar has previously argued that Omar brought it on herself by hiring One of Those Awful Leftists as a comms person and engaging Lowey and Engel on Twitter, ignoring the fact that these are two of the highest-ranking Democrats in Congress, that both had already swiftly responded to the "allegiance to a foreign country" controversy by condemning Omar and falsely accusing her of invoking the "dual loyalties" trope, and that there was no chance at that point that Pelosi and Hoyer would let her off the hook, regardless of what she did or didn't say on Twitter.

dude is always desperate to find a way to deflect blame away from the Democratic establishment and onto the leftists he hates, it's so transparent
Omar makes remarks that are disingenuously interpreted by Chait and another writer by framing them out of context.
Other House respond angrily to the article taking it at face value.
Omar's public response tacitly accepts the disingenuous framing instead of pushing back on it and clarifying the remarks.
Situation explodes.

Criticism of the response is not saying "Omar brought It on herself"- the blowup was clearly initiated by people who weren't acting in good faith, it's saying that Omar's comms team did her a massive disservice in how they handled the issue and failed to adequately handle the issue for her.
It's clear that they chose the wrong strategy, they could have just run on a platform of bucking Trump and done absolutely nothing like this group of miscreants have.

Willingness to compromise appears to have gotten us a lot of Dems in name only if they don't intend to uphold time honored Democratic principles like not funding concentration camps.
Spoiler: The House progressive version of the bill would have "funded the camps" too. Because "not funding the camps" would wind up in a even worse humanitarian place than passing either of the bills.