People are 'ghosting' at work, and it's driving companies crazy

[Tebunker]

I had no clue there are laws dictating that you can't ask how an employee was at a pervious job. Seems like a terrible idea to me. Is this a state by state basis?

Dont think so. I work for a multi-national company with locations everywhere.

As someone who has hired several people and been a manager for years we were always coached on exactly what you can and cannot ask when calling work history references. Hell a lot of companies just stopped calling them.

Like how can you even trust the words of a previous employer? You have to be able to determine if they are just being petty or are bitter etc. Like nothing prevents someone lying to you when you call. Regardless of whether the employee was amazing or not, gave notice etc the previous employer could easily just be upset and jealous and bitter.

No point in riskig yourself or company for a civil lawsuit over that shit

 

[zulux21]

I had no clue there are laws dictating that you can't ask how an employee was at a pervious job. Seems like a terrible idea to me. Is this a state by state basis?

you can state absolute facts.

if the person was fired because they were caught stealing you can say that, but if you don't have hard proof of that, and it's instead money was going missing and we think it was person X so we fired them, you can't say that. Since it's a fine line most companies will only give the basic details, as doing something like talking about whether you thought an employee was good or bad can easily lead to a defamation lawsuit.

it also depends state by state
https://careertrend.com/can-exemployer-tell-were-terminated-job-7636.html

 

[hippopotamus]

A certain tech giant gets over 100,000 applications a day. How do you expect them to keep up? Hell, they devolved an AI to screen resumes but had to scrap it because it became misogynistic and racist

I'm busy too and there is only one of me.

 

[Minx]

you can state absolute facts.

if the person was fired because they were caught stealing you can say that, but if you don't have hard proof of that, and it's instead money was going missing and we think it was person X so we fired them, you can't say that. Since it's a fine line most companies will only give the basic details, as doing something like talking about whether you thought an employee was good or bad can easily lead to a defamation lawsuit.

it also depends state by state
https://careertrend.com/can-exemployer-tell-were-terminated-job-7636.html

Very interesting. Thanks!

 

[mrmoose]

Cover letters should just let HR know what position is being applied for. However there are too many cover letters that are novellas telling the potential employee why they are so great and should get the job. Got the experience they want on the resume you'll get shortlisted, they are not going to ponder over each resume and have long discussions over them. They just want someone in the role.

That's funny because we had a hiring manager on here in another thread saying he basically rejected resumes that didn't have a cover letter tailor made for the job.

 

[Aaron]

No it hasn't. When the unemployment rate was extremely high, almost nobody was ghosting job offers. I'm talking about the 60s, 70s, and 80's. You got extremely few job offers, you were happy if you got one job offer, so you sure as hell didn't snub the opportunity. If there were circumstances where you couldn't or didn't take the job, they at least had the common courtesy to let the employer know.

Well sure, I was more drawing a line between the recent recession and the current full employment situation. I haven't found any meaningful change in how companies have treated me as a job applicant/interviewee between those ten years.

Lol

"lazy"

So you're saying employees owe companies and it is laziness the why they ghost the job?

So companies can just fire you out of the blue, but you have to give them notice?

I've been fired because I gave a 2 weeks notice.

Happened to me too, worked at a Hardee's in college and put in my two week notice after a new manager came in and was a colossal asshole to everyone. After I put my notice in he blacked out every shift I had on the schedule, did not contact me about this (despite telling the other managers he would) and I came in to my next shift to discover it would be my last shift (he wasn't there so they let me work it).

Anyway he was let go a few months later after he had an affair with one of the other managers (leading to the cops being called when her husband found out and showed up to start shit), and then died in a one-car accident because he was drunk driving like a dumbass, so who's the real winner of this story

 

[hemo memo]

Millennials have a very difficult time with face to face interactions, much less if there may be conflict involved or if they are in any way to blame for the conflict. Anyone who works in the educational system will not surprised by this trend at all.

Sometimes you just want avoid face to face bullshit and not waste your time.

 

[Veliladon]

you can state absolute facts.

This is still really dangerous. Because when you state some facts but leave some out, the employer hiring could sue you for not making certain parts of the employee's history public despite you offering some parts. They'll accuse you of lying by omission or something.

Better to just state the employee worked at a business and between what dates and nothing more.

 

[Nerdyone]

Most companies don't check references any more. They just validate that you worked there

 

[Steiner_Zi]

Unless they have a justifiable reason to fire you, they owe you two weeks of employment or salary in most civilized countries. In many European countries it's actually more.

Notice period if you want to leave your job/employer letting you off actually ranges from 1-3 months in the UK.

 

[Urban Scholar]

Reading through this thread has just had me to begrudgingly accept any jew jobs/careers I apply for more than likely will not send me "you didn't get the job notices"....yay!

 

[Aaron]

Reading through this thread has just had me to begrudgingly accept any jew jobs/careers I apply for more than likely will not send me "you didn't get the job notices"....yay!

i beg your pardon

 

[mrmoose]

Most companies don't check references any more. They just validate that you worked there

Some companies still have it as a requirement, but it's probably legacy stuff. I mean, what prevents you from giving your best friend's number?

The one area where they absolutely demand references is recruiters, and I've found that's less to evaluate you and more to expand their network.

 

[HellforLeather]

If you know it's annoying to be ghosted, why not call back the people who interviewed but didn't get the job? Or at least send out a form email?

Volume and time. There is no way I could dedicate a day to calling everyone back on top of everything else I am responsible for.

 

[TitanicFall]

Volume and time. There is no way I could dedicate a day to calling everyone back on top of everything else I am responsible for.

If only we had some technology that can send a template email to all those interviewed but not hired.

 

[Lexad]

I know the company has no respect for me at all but if I up and left tomorrow I would be screwing people over in my department who would have to take over my job. It would take 2 months minimum to find a replacement. I would never be a dick to people like that. That is who you really hurt when you pull bullshit like this. At least give some notice.

 

[Jacknapes]

I partially feel sorry for companies, however when the shoe is on the other foot with them ghosting applicants then i don't feel sorry for them.

 

[Aurongel]

Interview candidates "ghosting" has been a major point of ire for the people I work with who help vet candidates and conduct interviews. I graduated college only 3 years ago so I am very, very familiar with how corporations and online job placement boards have made the lives of job seekers a living hell. The system is incredibly inefficient and rigged against the candidate, I've never once blamed one of our candidates for not calling us back. It's just how the game works now, corporations played shitty games and now they get to claim their shitty prizes. I love my employer and I think we genuinely come from a place of good faith when it comes to emailing candidates back but even still I can't blame our candidates for not giving us the same courtesies.

It's just interesting to me now that I've experienced both sides of this frustrating trend.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

If only we had some technology that can send a template email to all those interviewed but not hired.

Right? Like form emails and merging doesn't exist lol.

 

[entremet]

Reading through this thread has just had me to begrudgingly accept any jew jobs/careers I apply for more than likely will not send me "you didn't get the job notices"....yay!

Basically, the attitude you should have as a job seeker is keep looking and interviewing until you get an offer you want.

Too many just sit and wait. That's not productive. Companies are not doing that either. They're interviewing multiple candidates. Take the same approach. Getting ghosted sucks. But I just find it funny seeing companies now complain when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[Cantaim]

i beg your pardon

Looking at my keyboard and where J and N are located. I'm assuming the poster mistyped. At least I hope they did.

 

[Kenstar]

If only we had some technology that can send a template email to all those interviewed but not hired.

woah woah woah we cant expect these masters degree in HR people to know about properly contacting mass amounts of people
every hr person is a 80yr old grandparent who starts crying and breaks down when they have 5 or more people to reject for a position
think about THEIR needs ffs

A certain tech giant gets over 100,000 applications a day. How do you expect them to keep up? Hell, they devolved an AI to screen resumes but had to scrap it because it became misogynistic and racist

I expect them to contact the .01% who actually get called into an interview and then didnt get it
i DONT expect them (and NO ONE does) to contact every application sent in if no prior communication was established
The people applying to those 100k applicant positions are also mass firing off resumes into the wind, and dont give a fuck if one didnt reply
but dont call someone in and have them go thru 2 rounds of interview and then treat them like some anonymous unsolicited email who shouldn't expect even a template rejection

 

[Gigglepoo]

Volume and time. There is no way I could dedicate a day to calling everyone back on top of everything else I am responsible for.

Form emails

The correct approach is to move on instead of harboring even an inch of negative emotion and question why doesn't the HR send a rejection notification.

This mentality is why the business/employee relations are in such a sorry state. Corporations don't have empathy but people should. If you are arguing against human decency because you can't send out form emails, that's on you.

 

[Parch]

After reading this thread, I have a much better understanding why companies prefer to hire older workers.

 

[entremet]

After reading this thread, I have a much better understanding why companies prefer to hire older workers.

This is not necessarily true. Age discrimination is a huge issue still.

 

[mrmoose]

After reading this thread, I have a much better understanding why companies prefer to hire older workers.

What companies are these? Older workers are usually more expensive workers and not as "moldable" so depending on the industry, being young is a definite advantage.

 

[Kenstar]

After reading this thread, I have a much better understanding why companies prefer to hire older workers.

tell that to my 60yr old mom with a masters trying to get work that pays more than 15/hour working with people half her age

 

[Tetrinski]

How about this? Use the free time that you get when someone ghosts you to call or email the applicants who interviewed but didn't make it.

 

[frankenstrat]

On the other side of the coin, I’ve been ghosted by many recruiters while trying to land my first dev job. Seattle freeze probably doesn’t help in that regard.

 

[TransEuropaExpress]

My wife just bought her boss' client list (hair stylist) and booth rental spot, materials and all that goes with it at a salon and was hiring for a personal assistant.

The antics that ensued in the past month based on this are...something else. We've had three people not show up to their paid "try out" day without a word and two actually hired people just not show up. One had the decency to write us with a reason and it was that she decided that she wants to pursue an acting career instead.

We finally found someone and every day she actually shows up feels like a relief right now. Bizarre stuff I wasn't really aware of nor expecting.

 

[TylersProphecy]

As someone who currently works in a restaurant, this happens. A LOT. Sooo, it's not just corporate jobs.

That said, all the people saying good or thinking this is good, all this does is put more work and pressure on the backs of those who DO their jobs. It fucking sucks to have to do 2-3 peoples worth of work because the new guy fucked you on their second day.

 

[Oatmeal-san]

It's hard for me to feel sympathy when so many companies think it's cool to leave people waiting on an answer that isn't coming.

I agree with this (even though I'd never "ghost" a potential employer, myself). I just got my current job this past September, but before that I spent nearly 2 years being "ghosted" by potential employers. So many of them never responded after I interviewed with them - not even an auto generated email telling me they decided to go in another direction. It's frustrating as hell.

 

[mrmoose]

How about this? Use the free time that you get when someone ghosts you to call or email the applicants who interviewed but didn't make it.

I know what you're saying, but I would think if someone ghosts a job, the HR guy has less free time than before.

 

[Cat Party]

I partially feel sorry for companies, however when the shoe is on the other foot with them ghosting applicants then i don't feel sorry for them.

I mean, fuck companies. The workers don't owe them shit unless there's a contract. The only reason to give notice or whatnot is out of respect for the people you work with. Companies have dumped untold millions of dollars into efforts to make sure they can fire anyone at any time for any reason. This is the flipside.

 

[TransEuropaExpress]

How about this? Use the free time that you get when someone ghosts you to call or email the applicants who interviewed but didn't make it.

In our particular case, there were glaringly huge experience/quality of work gaps here. I can't afford to hire someone who half-bullshitted their way through their resume based on their trial performance because the person who was five times more qualified was a flake.

 

[SugarNoodles]

Form emails



This mentality is why the business/employee relations are in such a sorry state. Corporations don't have empathy but people should. If you are arguing against human decency because you can't send out form emails, that's on you.

Let’s not forget that this isn’t just about sending rejection letters. Often times employers will fill a position and then leave job postings up for weeks.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I wonder how many HR people are in this thread complaining that they don't have time to send out a form rejection email.

 

[Tetrinski]

In our particular case, there were glaringly huge experience/quality of work gaps here. I can't afford to hire someone who half-bullshitted their way through their resume based on their trial performance because the person who was five times more qualified was a flake.

I think that you're replying to the wrong person, your post doesn't have much correlation with mine.

 

[TransEuropaExpress]

I think that you're replying to the wrong person, your post doesn't have much correlation with mine.

I read that the wrong way. I read it as in call the applicants that didn't make it and offer them the job if need be kind of thing, hence the confusion.

 

[Tetrinski]

Let’s not forget that this isn’t just about sending rejection letters. Often times employers will fill a position and then leave job postings up for weeks.

Good point, someone's laziness to not spend 20 seconds taking down the post from Indeed means lots of people will waste a lot of time, energy and anxiety applying.

Something that seems often forgotten on this thread is how much job hunting affects your mental health. For the recruiter, it's just a Tuesday.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Something that seems often forgotten on this thread is how much job hunting affects your mental health. For the recruiter, it's just a Tuesday.

Yeah, a poster mentioned this earlier. Depression, anxiety, etc are common problems for people who are unemployed. It's why it's so frustrating to read other posters laugh at the idea of a company showing empathy. Some HR departments really don't understand that there is a real person waiting for news for a job they spent hours auditioning for. It would take 30 seconds to send out a form email but there are people who can't even be bothered to do that much for another person. Really gross, if you ask me.

 

[TransEuropaExpress]

Yeah, a poster mentioned this earlier. Depression, anxiety, etc are common problems for people who are unemployed. It's why it's so frustrating to read other posters laugh at the idea of a company showing empathy. Some HR departments really don't understand that there is a real person waiting for news for a job they spent hours auditioning for. It would take 30 seconds to send out a form email but there are people who can't even be bothered to do that much for another person. Really gross, if you ask me.

I'm in charge of a department at my company and I gladly have enough pull these days to make our HR person send these out. It's fucked up to not even inform people if the position has been filled as far as I'm concerned. One of the first things I remembered having been on the receiving end of that hyper-anxiety many times in the past.

 

[HellforLeather]

Form emails

We dont require an email address when someone applies because most people in the industry have emails through their work....nobody wants application info going through their current companies emails. So they either dont have one, or dont list one because they are afraid to have it sent to them.

 

[adamsappel]

What companies are these? Older workers are usually more expensive workers and not as "moldable" so depending on the industry, being young is a definite advantage.

They might mean older as in, 30, not 60.

 

[mrmoose]

Yeah, a poster mentioned this earlier. Depression, anxiety, etc are common problems for people who are unemployed. It's why it's so frustrating to read other posters laugh at the idea of a company showing empathy. Some HR departments really don't understand that there is a real person waiting for news for a job they spent hours auditioning for. It would take 30 seconds to send out a form email but there are people who can't even be bothered to do that much for another person. Really gross, if you ask me.

I agree that at the very least, they should send out emails (though sometimes they only do that once the position is filled... I've gotten rejection notices like months and months later). But I'm not sure how much it helps with the depression/anxiety. A rejection is still a rejection, and oftentimes even if they had the time to personalize each one, they're not allowed to tell you why you didn't make the cut.

Still better to know than not to know, I guess.

 

[Deception]

My wife just bought her boss' client list (hair stylist) and booth rental spot, materials and all that goes with it at a salon and was hiring for a personal assistant.

The antics that ensued in the past month based on this are...something else. We've had three people not show up to their paid "try out" day without a word and two actually hired people just not show up. One had the decency to write us with a reason and it was that she decided that she wants to pursue an acting career instead.

We finally found someone and every day she actually shows up feels like a relief right now. Bizarre stuff I wasn't really aware of nor expecting.

My girlfriend also works as a Manager at an upscale Hair Salon and the stories she tells me about interviewing for stylists match up with exactly what you are saying. I'm not sure if it anecdotal or if it's just common practice amongst that field of work. She had one person cancel 10 minutes before she was supposed to be there because she "was extremely ill" yet when she checked the person's Instagram, they were out and about in the city perfectly fine. Like why not just say you are not interested in the position anymore? Needless to say, my gf did not call her back.

 

[TransEuropaExpress]

My girlfriend also works as a Manager at an upscale Hair Salon and the stories she tells me about interviewing for stylists match up with exactly what you are saying. I'm not sure if it anecdotal or if it's just common practice amongst that field of work. She had one person cancel 10 minutes before she was supposed to be there because she "was extremely ill" yet when she checked the person's Instagram, they were out and about in the city perfectly fine. Like why not just say you are not interested in the position anymore? Needless to say, my gf did not call her back.

It's been very taxing in every aspect if even just simply because my wife had to get someone hired within a specific time frame and each trial day meant having to commute back in NYC and spend that day off teaching them the ropes and paying for it. It all added up to several hundred dollars down the toilet along with the mental aspects.

My wife's been in this industry for ages but never having been on the employer's side of the fence, she can't tell if it's rather common in her field.

Give your girlfriend a fist bump in solidarity from me.

 

[TitanicFall]

We dont require an email address when someone applies because most people in the industry have emails through their work....nobody wants application info going through their current companies emails. So they either dont have one, or dont list one because they are afraid to have it sent to them.

Most people have personal email addresses. A Gmail account is free. What industry do you work in?

 

[Nerdyone]

Some companies still have it as a requirement, but it's probably legacy stuff. I mean, what prevents you from giving your best friend's number?

The one area where they absolutely demand references is recruiters, and I've found that's less to evaluate you and more to expand their network.

Yes about the recruiters. I run a global recruiting team and we ask for referrals all the time

 

[subpar spatula]

Yes about the recruiters. I run a global recruiting team and we ask for referrals all the time

Referrals are meaningless. Like, I am on at least 5 people's referral list. I just make shit up to make them look good. I am waiting for the company to throw a trick question in there to catch the lies but they never do.