Ghosting both ways is fine IMO.
A company doesn't owe it to you to tell you that you weren't hired. Neither do "future" employees.
A company doesn't owe it to you to tell you that you weren't hired. Neither do "future" employees.
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People are 'ghosting' at work, and it's driving companies crazy
- Thread starter olubode
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Oh hey, this thread. Just thought of a fun (semi-related) story of my sister's college internship when she went to school to become a social worker.
So she came in for her first meeting with her direct supervisor and when she went to her office door, her boss was on the phone. Looked at her, gave her the "one minute" finger and kept talking. So my sister sat down in a chair outside of the office. About 20 minutes later the boss comes out and yells at her asking where she's been, why she's late, all this stuff and my sister was like "You were on the phone, I was waiting for you to be done." The boss acted like she'd never seen her and berated her some more. Off to a great start.
So the next time she came in, she went to the office and all the lights were off. For the floor and inside the office itself. So she waited outside again. Ten minutes later the office door flings open, and boss lady is there again. She kept all her lights off to test my sister and see if she'd knock, and she failed and is fired from the internship (that she needs as part of her program).
She explains this to the people in charge of the program and naturally they take the intern place's side because golly gee, they've never had any problems with them before! But they manage to arrange it so she can have a second chance. My sister goes in for a meeting with all of the leadership at the intern place to make her case, and the head boss guy sends her out to grab something. As she's leaving he makes some comment like "And when you come back, you can practice knocking on the door!"
I try not to use this word that often to preserve the potency of it, but what cunts.
Anyway that's not totally related to ghosting but man, employers treat people like shit and expect not to get some in return?
It's worse during a recession because you know how many people are hanging onto every shitty job offer they can.
So she came in for her first meeting with her direct supervisor and when she went to her office door, her boss was on the phone. Looked at her, gave her the "one minute" finger and kept talking. So my sister sat down in a chair outside of the office. About 20 minutes later the boss comes out and yells at her asking where she's been, why she's late, all this stuff and my sister was like "You were on the phone, I was waiting for you to be done." The boss acted like she'd never seen her and berated her some more. Off to a great start.
So the next time she came in, she went to the office and all the lights were off. For the floor and inside the office itself. So she waited outside again. Ten minutes later the office door flings open, and boss lady is there again. She kept all her lights off to test my sister and see if she'd knock, and she failed and is fired from the internship (that she needs as part of her program).
She explains this to the people in charge of the program and naturally they take the intern place's side because golly gee, they've never had any problems with them before! But they manage to arrange it so she can have a second chance. My sister goes in for a meeting with all of the leadership at the intern place to make her case, and the head boss guy sends her out to grab something. As she's leaving he makes some comment like "And when you come back, you can practice knocking on the door!"
I try not to use this word that often to preserve the potency of it, but what cunts.
Anyway that's not totally related to ghosting but man, employers treat people like shit and expect not to get some in return?
Nope, doesn't matter how the economy's doing, this shit always happens.
It's worse during a recession because you know how many people are hanging onto every shitty job offer they can.
That's fucking awful. Interns are treated like shit, and it's basically slave labor.
This seems like career suicide in certain towns and industries. It's a small world and that "ghosting" behavior could cost someone a job later on down the road. You never know where the person you ghosted will be in 5 years in some niche fields.
Agree corporations are horrible and probably "deserve it" but that's no excuse for being a dick. Find the courage to have that awkward conversation and it will be easier the next time.
I mean right now I seriously regret jumping ship from my last company for a shitload more money but I'm not just going to up and leave once I find another gig and I'm not miserable so I'll just wait it out a year unless something too good to pass up opens up.
Agree corporations are horrible and probably "deserve it" but that's no excuse for being a dick. Find the courage to have that awkward conversation and it will be easier the next time.
I mean right now I seriously regret jumping ship from my last company for a shitload more money but I'm not just going to up and leave once I find another gig and I'm not miserable so I'll just wait it out a year unless something too good to pass up opens up.
This has happened to me a few times. One dude went poof and a couple months later he showed up at my house as an exterminator. Awkward
I've received no response so many times on positions I've interviewed for or been strung along thinking I was getting a job only to never hear back that honestly I think a lot of companies deserve it. Though I never would.
Happened to me twice in the last two months. I am beyond furious and am questioning what the hell is wrong with me to get this kind of treatment.
While I wouldn't do this, the same applies to companies. How difficult is it to send an auto-generated "Sorry, you were unsuccessful / you did not get an interview on this occasion" email?
I got one of those six months after I had interviewed for a position, along with a 20% off coupon for their online store. Companies are scum
I wonder if some of it is due to overbearing parents or strict parents. It can take years to recondition that facet of the professional world into confrontation. Some parents never teach kids to confront, some kids learn to not confront out of safety. Doesn't help the situation though if hiring committees.
I will say as someone in the theatre world it's an extremely bad idea to blow off auditions/callbacks/offers/etc. for exactly this reason.
Was in charge of casting a musical once and had this one guy who killed it at the audition and I wanted to offer him a part right away. I called him up and he said he wanted a day to think about it because he was waiting on some other offers. Fair enough, but when I tried reaching out to him again he totally blew us off. I want to say I ended up leaving two voicemails, sent a text and sent an email as well. On my second voicemail I told him we couldn't wait any longer and if we didn't hear back by the end of the night, we'd have to start reaching out to other people (which ultimately entailed offering private auditions to new actors, because we didn't really have anyone else who fit the part).
Three weeks later I auditioned for a show myself and saw him at the callback audition. We made eye contact and I could tell he felt extremely awkward by my being there, so I went out of my way to say hello in the perkiest way possible. He said hi back and immediately blurted out some excuse about how his email account hadn't been working. I just smiled and was like "Right, no big deal, good luck with the audition" and walked away.
And now every time his name comes up with my other theatre friends (we have a ton of mutual friends on Facebook) I make it clear that he's an unreliable flake. What goes around. Sucks because the guy we ended up going with wasn't as good, but at least he showed up.
Meh companies do this to people all the time so fuck'em. I was tempted to ghost my last employer when I got my position but decided not to just in case I wanted to use my supervisor as a reference. I also had an interview setup with a different campus before I accepted my current position and called to notify them that I was not going to show up. That was more to do with not wanting to leave a bad taste in their mouth seeing as it was with the same district just a different campus. I feel very lucky to be in the position I am in now and don't plan on leaving for a long time, love my job.
Why should we care enough to let them know we aren't interested when they could give zero fucks about us.
Some of this may be generational but some of it is almost certainly due to the heat of competition in the marketplace. If your hiring process takes weeks and requires interview after interview after interview, you can't act surprised when people take an in-hand offer from your competition down the street. I've seen that scenario play out multiple times in my career: I take the time to tell them why no further conversations will be necessary but that isn't a courtesy I feel places in general are owed.
If I do 3 interviews across two companies for a similar position with similar pay and Company B makes an offer while Company A asks for another interview, I know where I'm headed.
Employers need to understand that talented people have options again. The 2008 crash made employers fucking lazy.
If I do 3 interviews across two companies for a similar position with similar pay and Company B makes an offer while Company A asks for another interview, I know where I'm headed.
Employers need to understand that talented people have options again. The 2008 crash made employers fucking lazy.
Back in High School, my buddy really hated his job at Arby's so he just stopped going for like a month. During that month, they kept him on the schedule. And when he ran out of money, he showed back up at Arby's one day and no one said a word.
No it hasn't. When the unemployment rate was extremely high, almost nobody was ghosting job offers. I'm talking about the 60s, 70s, and 80's. You got extremely few job offers, you were happy if you got one job offer, so you sure as hell didn't snub the opportunity. If there were circumstances where you couldn't or didn't take the job, they at least had the common courtesy to let the employer know.
As someone who hires people, its happened a lot of times. The last position I had to fill I had 8 people just not show up for the interview that was discussed on the phone. Its not that big of a deal, more annoying than anything else. I guess I get it but I don't waste people's time; if I call you to schedule for an interview, then you are in the running for the job. I dont call back the dozens of people who applied but if someone calls to follow up, I will let them know if the position has been filled. (Sitting around waiting for a potential employer to call you back is dumb. Apply, interview, then keep looking.)
Ghosting the job after you've already gotten hired seems kinda dumb though; you cant use that place as a reference anymore, should you need one.
Ghosting the job after you've already gotten hired seems kinda dumb though; you cant use that place as a reference anymore, should you need one.
I don't post in here really, but I saw this thread and...this is nothing new, and have nothing to do with millennials and age.
Alot of people have options, especially in an employee's economy like we have now...because of the unemployment rate, all the chips are on our side. You might think you need a job until you see how crappy a place is...or sometimes, another opportunity comes along.
There is no burnt bridges...people don't put these jobs on their resumes. Alot of people have plenty of references, and alot of employers don't even ask for references anymore, they just do the employee verification thing on the internet to make sure you actually worked there. The one place I kinda ghosted, I sent an email telling them I wasn't come in, but mainly because I wanted to make sure I got my last paycheck. Another place, not ghosted but I was well liked and doing well, and almost won employee of the month one day...the next day I gave my two weeks notice (the company in general was a bad fit).
I've definitely ghosted a ton of interviews though, and I've rejected/ghosted jobs after being accepting the position (please always trust your gut!)...you have to be your own sports agent, I always say. You don't owe any business anything. A business can drop you in a second.
And finally...in my experience, it's the small businesses that are the worst, not large corporations. They often have no HR department and no oversight and have ego-manics that are ultra-nepotistic and anti-constructive criticism. All of the worst interviews and treatment during work I have received have come from small private businesses.
So in short, when managing your career and your income, check you emotions at the door. You don't owe anyone anything. That's how people get stepped on or stepped over..."OMG I feel bad my coworkers will be concerned and I want everyone to like me and Jane will just have my workload all of a sudden"...FUCK THAT...
These two people are my role models (hell, everyone in this movie is)...if you haven't done this trust me it is a great feeling:
Alot of people have options, especially in an employee's economy like we have now...because of the unemployment rate, all the chips are on our side. You might think you need a job until you see how crappy a place is...or sometimes, another opportunity comes along.
There is no burnt bridges...people don't put these jobs on their resumes. Alot of people have plenty of references, and alot of employers don't even ask for references anymore, they just do the employee verification thing on the internet to make sure you actually worked there. The one place I kinda ghosted, I sent an email telling them I wasn't come in, but mainly because I wanted to make sure I got my last paycheck. Another place, not ghosted but I was well liked and doing well, and almost won employee of the month one day...the next day I gave my two weeks notice (the company in general was a bad fit).
I've definitely ghosted a ton of interviews though, and I've rejected/ghosted jobs after being accepting the position (please always trust your gut!)...you have to be your own sports agent, I always say. You don't owe any business anything. A business can drop you in a second.
And finally...in my experience, it's the small businesses that are the worst, not large corporations. They often have no HR department and no oversight and have ego-manics that are ultra-nepotistic and anti-constructive criticism. All of the worst interviews and treatment during work I have received have come from small private businesses.
So in short, when managing your career and your income, check you emotions at the door. You don't owe anyone anything. That's how people get stepped on or stepped over..."OMG I feel bad my coworkers will be concerned and I want everyone to like me and Jane will just have my workload all of a sudden"...FUCK THAT...
These two people are my role models (hell, everyone in this movie is)...if you haven't done this trust me it is a great feeling:
We had a new guy do this a few weeks ago. Just up and disappeared about half way through the shift. Found his badge in the bathroom.
If you know it's annoying to be ghosted, why not call back the people who interviewed but didn't get the job? Or at least send out a form email?
It's true you don't owe anybody anything. But you can still have common decency. Why does that go out the door when dealing with an employer or potential employer? You're not sticking it to the corporation or the HR department, you're sticking it to the other poor employees who were, you know, counting on you showing up. If you feel like something is not for you, why not just explain it to them? Are people that afraid of confrontation that it's easier to just bail?
Common decency? These are total strangers that sit in a large box for income. Let them figure it out. Why do I need to explain anything to anyone for any reason, when making a personal decision? You aren't hurting anyone...it's no different in reality then having to go on sick leave, when they have to take up the work. It's their job.
An employer is a total stranger that gives you money to do stuff...that's it...I don't see a ring on this finger...I'm just a dollar amount on their spreadsheet.
It would be incredible if employers explained why they decided to hire a different person. Shame they prefer ghosting people rather than showing common decency.
I don't give a shit. They pay people to do HR, and those people tend to do the shittiest, laziest job imaginable. An automated message would be fine most of the time. And to ignore a resume is one thing, but if someone bothered to come in for an interview, let them know they didn't get it is the bare minimum. People looking for work suffer anxiety, depression and many other symptoms. An HR recruiter should know that and behave accordingly instead of doing the easy thing of just pretend you never existed.
Also, fuck those who say they only spend 5 second in each resume and avoid cover letters. It's your fucking job to review that shit, work in a different field if you don't want to do it. Anyone else would get fired if they worked like that.
What do you owe people you barely know????? It's laughable that people are offended by this when recruiters and interviewers have done this to prospects for decades. I feel like the only people who are upset about this are actual recruiters.
I mean, people are offended when recruiters do this to them, and they don't know you either.
I'm not upset. But presumably if someone lined you up with a job offer and you accepted, they did right by you, and yet we're applauding punishing them because we've had bad experiences with other companies?
Now if you're working for a company and you hate them because they are constantly screwing you over or something, that's a little more understandable.
Lined me up? As in a referral?? That's different. Otherwise, no. At will employment goes both ways. The company will chug right along. I do think it's a bit cowardly, but rude or disrespectful?? Fuck outta here
companies ghosting prospective employees is worse than the other way around because companies have more power, money, and leverage in every situation
Ive ghosted on shitty jobs
I feel no loyalty to people who underpay me and/or treat me like shit
At the end of the day its only an inconvenience to them so i dont really care
I feel no loyalty to people who underpay me and/or treat me like shit
At the end of the day its only an inconvenience to them so i dont really care
Plus, HR are the outward face of many companies. By acting like dicks to prospective employees, they are broadcasting loud and clear how little they care about people. You know the quote "If you want to see the true measure of a man, watch how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." Why would the best people ever want to work for a place that's so disrespectful?
You could say the same about terminations and layoffs. Employees are out leveraged there and most companies just fire people for any little thing. I've known of people getting fired just because their boss didn't like them. Yeah, at will employment!
Not talking about small towns really but small industries. Like game companies in say Los Angeles there are really only a dozen or so here and if you ghosted one chances are in you'll eventually probably work with the same person you ghosted over the course of your career.
It seemed like you were talking about both.
Also, that works both ways.
"Oh, we've met before. I interviewed at *. You made an offer and then you ghosted me."
Awkward.
The job search process is a fucking pain in the ass these days if you don't have a hookup. I don't empathize much with big corporations that treat people like shit.
That said, this sounds like the kind of behavior of someone afraid of any kind of confrontation. It can bite you in the ass while looking for a new job too.
That said, this sounds like the kind of behavior of someone afraid of any kind of confrontation. It can bite you in the ass while looking for a new job too.
Yeah I meant to say small places like Portland for example; it's tiny with only a few really good employers like Nike and Intel and a ton of small offices of big companies, startups and then your traditional business.
Somewhere like NYC or LA might be easier to hide in but the industries do have a lot of cross pollination.
Lol
"lazy"
So you're saying employees owe companies and it is laziness the why they ghost the job?
So companies can just fire you out of the blue, but you have to give them notice?
I've been fired because I gave a 2 weeks notice.
This. If you're not going to interview, at least have the curtesy to say you are pursuing another candidate. I know a lot of "openings" are fully intended for someone on staff already and the posting is just a formality. Doesn't mean you should ignore real human beings giving you some time out of their life.
Lol I did it a few years ago. I wanted to work a little bit in order to get money for my studies. I did my first day, it was fuckin horrible, like really. They treated me like shit, worst day of work I have ever had, so I didn't came the day after. I didn't called them, nothing.
A few days after I went there to get my money for the only day I did lol they were not happy I said nothing I was just waiting for my money, not saying sorry or anything.
I'm not really proud of it, I would not do it again (I was 18 years old), but I don't regret it, fuck them lol.
Right after that, two of my friends tried to get the job since they were kinda desesperate at the time, it was an hard time to find a job in France. (It still is, but it was really hard for them back in 2012/2013, now they do have a job)
The recruiter (that didn't knew at all that they were my friends) just didn't liked the face of one of them and just talked to him like shit during the interview and said in the end "we'll call you if we want you... but if I were you I would not expect to get that call".
And for the second one, his first name is Sofian but his last name is french. So the interviewer asked him "are you an Arab ?". Important to note that it was right after the terrorist attacks perpetuated by Mohammed Merah in 2012 in Toulouse... Like I said, fuck them. 0 regrets.
A few days after I went there to get my money for the only day I did lol they were not happy I said nothing I was just waiting for my money, not saying sorry or anything.
I'm not really proud of it, I would not do it again (I was 18 years old), but I don't regret it, fuck them lol.
Right after that, two of my friends tried to get the job since they were kinda desesperate at the time, it was an hard time to find a job in France. (It still is, but it was really hard for them back in 2012/2013, now they do have a job)
The recruiter (that didn't knew at all that they were my friends) just didn't liked the face of one of them and just talked to him like shit during the interview and said in the end "we'll call you if we want you... but if I were you I would not expect to get that call".
And for the second one, his first name is Sofian but his last name is french. So the interviewer asked him "are you an Arab ?". Important to note that it was right after the terrorist attacks perpetuated by Mohammed Merah in 2012 in Toulouse... Like I said, fuck them. 0 regrets.
Job related: Don't you think it sucks that you have to give your employer 2 weeks notice before quitting but don't get the same courtesy extended to you when they decide to fire you?
Some people are being a bit naive...this is America 2019, most people aren't hard-up for jobs. Obviously if you get hired to be a game designer at Bungie you shouldn't ghost that...that's not remotely what this is about. People are replaceable but so are companies and the jobs they have.
Most ghosting happens with non-management jobs or crappy jobs. A dime a dozen.
Most ghosting happens with non-management jobs or crappy jobs. A dime a dozen.