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people who downplay the exclusion of minorities in media deny our existence despite us making up a large visible part of the population & it's BS

nsilvias

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,199
i see some here often throw out the idea that minorities being included in media are token but considering how much of the population we make up especially in major cities it's ridiculous to even believe this. we exist and we are clearly visible yet to some we are nothing more than token characters. this infers that our existence doesnt matter. i honestly dont understand how anyone can believe this if they live in any major american city. on any given day at any hour i will literally see people from multiple cultures. i dont know where im going with this but i saw someone say something like this on gaming side and it really bothered me.
 
Davidion

Davidion

Charitable King
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,651
Anyone who earnestly says that can be easily blown off as being uncultured. But I understand why it's frustrating.
 
Sweeney Swift

Sweeney Swift

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,743
#IStandWithTaylor
They ignore how we're treated in media almost as well as they ignore how we're treated in reality. They don't want to think about our existence in one because then they'll have to think about it in the other. It feels very intentional
 
FuturusX

FuturusX

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,665
nsilvias said:
i see some here often throw out the idea that minorities being included in media are token but considering how much of the population we make up especially in major cities it's ridiculous to even believe this. we exist and we are clearly visible yet to some we are nothing more than token characters. this infers that our existence doesnt matter. i honestly dont understand how anyone can believe this if they live in any major american city. on any given day at any hour i will literally see people from multiple cultures. i dont know where im going with this but i saw someone say something like this on gaming side and it really bothered me.
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The gatekeepers are reflecting a world they see, expect to see or want to see. I gave up waiting for them to tell our stories a long time ago. We need representation all along the chain. Support minority storytellers and producers as best you can...hopefully they can find their way into positions of influence. I am far from hopeful that things will change to a large degree...but at least you can use your energy elsewhere instead of waiting for Pixar to realize having a diverse story room matters.
 
Nishastra

Nishastra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
176
It's normalization. In our society, straight white male is the default, for everything, because that is always what everything centers around. If a main character is not a straight white male, their story needs to be about how they became capable of being there, because it's assumed they're not by default.

People put absolutely zero thought into this. Because it's what they've always seen, it is "the truth". It's normal. Even asking them to consider why they think this way will make a lot of people angry. To them it's just the way of the world, and to claim otherwise is a lie, is "political correctness" or "forced diversity".

So every minority, every woman who's not a demure damsel, needs to justify their existence constantly.
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,157
Now stop and consider that even futuristic works that focus on a more globalized world and tend to have more of a focus on ethnically diverse casts still tend to ignore that the ethnic diversity of the world is significantly different than that of the United States.
 
Vonnegut

Vonnegut

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,082
Tell me about it. There are somewhere between 800,000 to 1.5 million Armenian Americans, with a more conservative estimate of 461,000. And how many films and television shows feature Armenian American characters?

In the 2010 film Kick-Ass, an Armenian man with mental health problems is briefly shown trying to fly at the beginning of the film. He jumps from a roof-top and falls to his death. This is played for laughs.

And besides that, we have the goddamn Kardashians, who don't really count as Armenian if you ask me.
 
Pau

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,482
Unsurprisingly the same people have a hard time seeing women. You know, 50% of the population.

So the actual numbers don't matter. They will always find a reason to conveniently not see us or to rationalize our presence in "their" spaces as too rare, undeserved, or unrealistic to really matter.
 
lake

lake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,137
For all Star Trek Discovery's faults, when one late S2 episode had a shot that featured 3 characters, and all were black, named characters, I was really surprised and pleased. And then sad at how rare an occurrence that felt.

I think that show also beats most of the competition for female character importance and screentime.
 
OG YOLOwen

OG YOLOwen

Banned
Mar 24, 2019
814
Man I once saw a post on the other forum saying that the MCU having an Asian best friend and a black love interest is unrealistic

In New York fucking city

So lame
 
LordFish

LordFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
437
IMO, Representation means poc/woman making creative and executive decisions. Not the same ol' white people behind the scenes including them just to tick a box.
 
Chaos Legion

Chaos Legion

Member
Oct 30, 2017
9,060
I don't know what the answer is.

I had this conversation with a few friends and generally don't know what the right course of action is. Overrepresentation to encourage diversity at the hands of conflating reality (someone brought up demographics in the US and the percentage break down was nowhere close to what I expected)? It was too depressing to be honest.

Media has been making in roads though. Into the Spider-Verse showcasing Miles and the message that anyone can don the costume was beautiful IMO.
 
ishan

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
I’m assuming this is an America centric thread ? Cause obviously other countries have their representation (whether that’s is so flawed is a whole other discussion).


I would imagine it’s just a representation of power and image and the image of America was white . Now of course it’s changed over the last 25 years and is changing as more and more non whites will get in power it’ll change . Just takes time . Also I assume it depends on where are you talking to about . Central Alabama and nyc have very different demographics.

Edit : for example Silicon Valley portrayals have indian and Asian aspects also now . I’m sure that wasn’t the case years back on software . Basically it’s perception and that changes . Just takes time sometimes for perception to catch up to reality .
 
thediamondage

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,945
Why is what people say on random internet forums and on twitter important to you at all? If a bunch of people say "it doesn't matter that most of the seen cast so far in the Avengers game is white" it doesn't mean (a) its true (b) it doesn't matter to more people. Minority representation is massive in modern TV and movies for the most part, most of the new TV shows I watch feel fairly representative of what I see around me in every day life.

Movies lag a bit behind, especially I imagine behind the camera, but TV shows as far as I can tell are mostly pretty good. Sure, late night talk show hosts or other very specific niches are not perfect (but still way, way better than 20 years ago) but when I think about the TV shows I watch week to week and the ones that are ratings blockbusters - Walking Dead, Brooklyn 99, The Good Place, Black Mirror, True Detective, Orange is the New Black, What We Do in the Shadows, etc its not just a sea of white pretty faces.

Older TV shows lag a bit too, think about Game of Thrones vs the upcoming "prequel" which has a lot more black and asian actors or the new Witcher series which has a more diverse cast.
 
ishan

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
thediamondage said:
Why is what people say on random internet forums and on twitter important to you at all? If a bunch of people say "it doesn't matter that most of the seen cast so far in the Avengers game is white" it doesn't mean (a) its true (b) it doesn't matter to more people. Minority representation is massive in modern TV and movies for the most part, most of the new TV shows I watch feel fairly representative of what I see around me in every day life.

Movies lag a bit behind, especially I imagine behind the camera, but TV shows as far as I can tell are mostly pretty good. Sure, late night talk show hosts or other very specific niches are not perfect (but still way, way better than 20 years ago) but when I think about the TV shows I watch week to week and the ones that are ratings blockbusters - Walking Dead, Brooklyn 99, The Good Place, Black Mirror, True Detective, Orange is the New Black, What We Do in the Shadows, etc its not just a sea of white pretty faces.

Older TV shows lag a bit too, think about Game of Thrones vs the upcoming "prequel" which has a lot more black and asian actors or the new Witcher series which has a more diverse cast.
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Can agree with this post . As you point out there is a lag in these things.
 
AnansiThePersona

AnansiThePersona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,814
thediamondage said:
Why is what people say on random internet forums and on twitter important to you at all? If a bunch of people say "it doesn't matter that most of the seen cast so far in the Avengers game is white" it doesn't mean (a) its true (b) it doesn't matter to more people. Minority representation is massive in modern TV and movies for the most part, most of the new TV shows I watch feel fairly representative of what I see around me in every day life.

Movies lag a bit behind, especially I imagine behind the camera, but TV shows as far as I can tell are mostly pretty good. Sure, late night talk show hosts or other very specific niches are not perfect (but still way, way better than 20 years ago) but when I think about the TV shows I watch week to week and the ones that are ratings blockbusters - Walking Dead, Brooklyn 99, The Good Place, Black Mirror, True Detective, Orange is the New Black, What We Do in the Shadows, etc its not just a sea of white pretty faces.

Older TV shows lag a bit too, think about Game of Thrones vs the upcoming "prequel" which has a lot more black and asian actors or the new Witcher series which has a more diverse cast.
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I agree with you. Like people looking to find some people that are obviously "wrong" so they can get mad at them for being racist here. The majority of people are watching the diverse shows so who the fuck cares what some racist 4chan/Twitter/Reddit poster says about diversity. We need to stop giving them air time and acting like they are a group of people whose opinions matter.
 
SugarNoodles

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,627
Portland, OR
thediamondage said:
Why is what people say on random internet forums and on twitter important to you at all? If a bunch of people say "it doesn't matter that most of the seen cast so far in the Avengers game is white" it doesn't mean (a) its true (b) it doesn't matter to more people. Minority representation is massive in modern TV and movies for the most part, most of the new TV shows I watch feel fairly representative of what I see around me in every day life.

Movies lag a bit behind, especially I imagine behind the camera, but TV shows as far as I can tell are mostly pretty good. Sure, late night talk show hosts or other very specific niches are not perfect (but still way, way better than 20 years ago) but when I think about the TV shows I watch week to week and the ones that are ratings blockbusters - Walking Dead, Brooklyn 99, The Good Place, Black Mirror, True Detective, Orange is the New Black, What We Do in the Shadows, etc its not just a sea of white pretty faces.

Older TV shows lag a bit too, think about Game of Thrones vs the upcoming "prequel" which has a lot more black and asian actors or the new Witcher series which has a more diverse cast.
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How many minority demographics are you a part of?

AnansiThePersona said:
I agree with you. Like people looking to find some people that are obviously "wrong" so they can get mad at them for being racist here. The majority of people are watching the diverse shows so who the fuck cares what some racist 4chan/Twitter/Reddit poster says about diversity. We need to stop giving them air time and acting like they are a group of people whose opinions matter.
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Ignoring racist rhetoric does not solve the problem. Get it through your head. Refusing to address this got us here in the first place.
 
AnansiThePersona

AnansiThePersona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,814
SugarNoodles said:
How many minority demographics are you a part of?


Ignoring racist rhetoric does not solve the problem. Get it through your head. Refusing to address this got us here in the first place.
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Not ignoring it. Just shit like the "non-SJW" cut of Avengers Endgame (which I would've never heard of if it wasn't for y'all) or the same type of cut for The Last Jedi. Or how Captain Marvel threads when it was coming out were all about how shitty the misogynist trolls were being on Twitter. It's like...how much negativity do y'all need to be exposed to? They're obviously wrong and are doing this to get attention. They aren't coming here to debate anyone on women's rights or whatever. They're dumb people screaming into a bubble they will never be challenged in.
 
SugarNoodles

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,627
Portland, OR
AnansiThePersona said:
Not ignoring it. Just shit like the "non-SJW" cut of Avengers Endgame (which I would've never heard of if it wasn't for y'all) or the same type of cut for The Last Jedi. Or how Captain Marvel threads when it was coming out were all about how shitty the misogynist trolls were being on Twitter. It's like...how much negativity do y'all need to be exposed to? They're obviously wrong and are doing this to get attention. They aren't coming here to debate anyone on women's rights or whatever. They're dumb people screaming into a bubble they will never be challenged in.
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Yeah you dont seem to get it. First of all, if you think that people are intentionally exposing themselves to negativity, you're probably just too privileged to understand what being marginalized actually feels like. Furthermore, you dont understand that they're not screaming into a bubble. They're screaming into a majority of scared white men that feel attacked when their privilege is questioned. Just because ignoring it is the most convenient path for you doesnt mean it's the right one.
 
DFG

DFG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,229
I don't see enough Arab representation, and probably won't in my life time. Usually we're just the bad guys
Where is my Arab super hero. Don't care what gender
 
AnansiThePersona

AnansiThePersona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,814
SugarNoodles said:
Yeah you dont seem to get it. First of all, if you think that people are intentionally exposing themselves to negativity, you're probably just too privileged to understand what being marginalized actually feels like. Furthermore, you dont understand that they're not screaming into a bubble. They're screaming into a majority of scared white men that feel attacked when their privilege is questioned. Just because ignoring it is the most convenient path for you doesnt mean it's the right one.
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"you're probably just too privileged to understand what being marginalized actually feels like." LMAO

Anyways... I don't get looking for that kind of shit to get upset about online because it's just dumb to me. Like you want something to remind you how shitty the world is just so you can feel "right".
 
AnansiThePersona

AnansiThePersona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,814
SugarNoodles said:
How exactly do you think progress happens?
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Probably by voting on a local and statewide level. And donating or whatever. Like... how upset do you want me to be at some of this shit? Trolls are always gonna post racist shit about there being "too many minorities and womens" in shit. I literally cannot be upset about that anymore. I ran out of fucks to give for that particular sentiment.
 
Orwell

Orwell

Banned
Jun 6, 2019
345
AnansiThePersona said:
I agree with you. Like people looking to find some people that are obviously "wrong" so they can get mad at them for being racist here. The majority of people are watching the diverse shows so who the fuck cares what some racist 4chan/Twitter/Reddit poster says about diversity. We need to stop giving them air time and acting like they are a group of people whose opinions matter.
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“Diversity” is more than simply surface representation of minorities, which is largely what modern day diversity in popular entertainment amounts to. In its genuine and unaffected form, true diversity is the lived experiences of those minorities, with all of the social and historical context that comes with their place in our society. Right now, save for those whose characters are part of work that is written by actual minorities, these actors are no different than stage props whose presence serves to complement the scene and not much else.
 
SugarNoodles

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,627
Portland, OR
AnansiThePersona said:
Probably by voting on a local and statewide level. And donating or whatever. Like... how upset do you want me to be at some of this shit? Trolls are always gonna post racist shit about there being "too many minorities and womens" in shit. I literally cannot be upset about that anymore. I ran out of fucks to give for that particular sentiment.
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And how do you think public opinion changes enough to change voting trends? It's not by people saying "whatever, people are going to be racist I guess"
 
AnansiThePersona

AnansiThePersona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,814
SugarNoodles said:
And how do you think public opinion changes enough to change voting trends? It's not by people saying "whatever, people are going to be racist I guess"
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Where is public opinion being changed? On Resetera.com? I'd say more so in real life. It's not like we have people here going on r/The_Donald and changing someone's mind for the better. They just get downvoted to oblivion. If you live in one of those troll havens, your mind isn't being changed a faceless name on the internet. It makes sense to try here...but bringing up shit from some of those sites is pointless to me because they are not coming here to be debated by you.
 
SugarNoodles

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,627
Portland, OR
AnansiThePersona said:
Where is public opinion being changed? On Resetera.com? I'd say more so in real life. It's not like we have people here going on r/The_Donald and changing someone's mind for the better. They just get downvoted to oblivion. If you live in one of those troll havens, your mind isn't being changed a faceless name on the internet. It makes sense to try here...but bringing up shit from some of those sites is pointless to me because they are not coming here to be debated by you.
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What are you talking about? Public opinion changes more on the internet than "real life". One of the biggest political movements happening right now was started by a god damn hash tag.
 

maruchan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
1,605
N.Domixis said:
And please no stereotypical bald gang member who says aye Holmes and whose name is hector.
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The 80s has better repsentation in movies then now. For example la bamba, stand and deliver, born in east la, the Milagros beanfield war for example great positive films. Not til the 90s were you get garbage like American me and blood in and blood out..
 
AnansiThePersona

AnansiThePersona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,814
SugarNoodles said:
What are you talking about? Public opinion changes more on the internet than "real life". One of the biggest political movements happening right now was started by a god damn hash tag.
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I moreso meant the opinions of the people who are on "anti-SJW" bents of hating women and minorities in media and whatnot. When you go to where they thrive, you have less luck convincing them they are fucked up than if you are someone who know them in real life.
 
SugarNoodles

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,627
Portland, OR
AnansiThePersona said:
I moreso meant the opinions of the people who are on "anti-SJW" bents of hating women and minorities in media and whatnot. When you go to where they thrive, you have less luck convincing them they are fucked up than if you are someone who know them in real life.
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Have you just completely shifted the goalpost from talking about places like Era to Trump supporter reddit land?
 
AnansiThePersona

AnansiThePersona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,814
SugarNoodles said:
Have you just completely shifted the goalpost from talking about places like Era to Trump supporter reddit land?
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I'm not. Most of these types of comments come from there, right? Then we, the ResetEra collective, post on here how much these trolls hate diversity and how wrong they are and how oh so very bad they are. And then you say "then we just let racism thrive then???" then I said you can't change their minds from here when they have their own safe space bubble

...

and then you accused me of moving a goalpost.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
SugarNoodles said:
Yeah you dont seem to get it. First of all, if you think that people are intentionally exposing themselves to negativity, you're probably just too privileged to understand what being marginalized actually feels like. Furthermore, you dont understand that they're not screaming into a bubble. They're screaming into a majority of scared white men that feel attacked when their privilege is questioned. Just because ignoring it is the most convenient path for you doesnt mean it's the right one.
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If you were less needlessly aggressive to other posters you could avoid situations like this where you tell black posters that they "are too privileged to know what marginalization actually feels like".
 
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