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werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,357
That would be fine, but I'd still like to see perhaps some more variety. For example, I can't help but feel like P5 missed the opportunity to incorporate its themes into gameplay a little better with the whole "stealing the treasure" part of the game. You never really do much of that, it's basically fighting your way to the treasure and then beating the shit out of the dude in charge to take it by force. There could be some pretty cool setpieces about actually taking it stealthly and then running away. I don't know, just a few gimmicks to mix things up would be nice. Like the grappling hook they added to Royal.

If they're open to straight up making an Action RPG Persona sequel*, maybe we can expect some more experimentation with the game's structure, especially for the dungeon crawling part. I don't expect the daily life bits to change much, but it would also be interesting to see how they could make it different while not just ditching that aspect that I very much enjoy.

*I know Arena is technically a P4 sequel, but the game itself doesn't feel like it, it's only one in canon. Scramble is actually structured and paced like a mainline Persona title, apparently.

I think something that would really help the Persona & SMT games these days is if they totally revamped the movesets. Single physical attacks (maybe with an ailment attached), multi-target attacks, single & multi-target elemental moves, buffs, and debuffs - after countless games, the same set of moves grows old. TMS was mostly the same way, although at least they tried to spice it up with super moves & the occasional oddity (like a counter attack technique). Contrast that with the Etrian Odyssey series which has a new set of classes every game and manages to keep things interesting with different takes on similar concepts (for example, you know there's going to be a great ailment class & a great binder class, but what form those classes will be varies from game to game).
 
Sep 4, 2019
152
I meant the more on how will it be for someone who didn't play Persona 5
I think you'd be missing out on quite a bit. The story is perfectly followable without having played the original game, but I don't think you'd get the same enjoyment out of it. It definitely feels written around the idea that you know and care about these characters already, and without having played P5 it might be hard to get invested in them. There are also a lot of references to the original game, with only the bare minimum context ever being provided. I think you could still get enjoyment out of the game without having played P5, particularly the new characters, but I would recommend experiencing it in some way first if you can.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
I think something that would really help the Persona & SMT games these days is if they totally revamped the movesets. Single physical attacks (maybe with an ailment attached), multi-target attacks, single & multi-target elemental moves, buffs, and debuffs - after countless games, the same set of moves grows old. TMS was mostly the same way, although at least they tried to spice it up with super moves & the occasional oddity (like a counter attack technique). Contrast that with the Etrian Odyssey series which has a new set of classes every game and manages to keep things interesting with different takes on similar concepts (for example, you know there's going to be a great ailment class & a great binder class, but what form those classes will be varies from game to game).
Do you have any ideas, to give as an example? I'm having trouble imagining what it would be like instead. But yeah, playing Persona 5 for the first time was definitely more of a matter of seeing how the same combat elements and encounter types would look like with the new menus and presentation, instead of figuring the game out again.

Different elements don't make any difference at all if I'm doing the exact same thing with them.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,357
Do you have any ideas, to give as an example? I'm having trouble imagining what it would be like instead. But yeah, playing Persona 5 for the first time was definitely more of a matter of seeing how the same combat elements and encounter types would look like with the new menus and presentation, instead of figuring the game out again.

Different elements don't make any difference at all if I'm doing the exact same thing with them.

Well, like for example, take some of the Etrian Odyssey games.

EO5 had lots of cool classes like:

A class that was a back-row gunner AND a tank and somehow that worked.
Interesting summoning classes - how cool would it be if besides personas, the MC in Persona 6 could also summon temporary monster allies?
A dodge/counter-attack tank
EO Nexus has a class whose main gimmick is creating afterimage clones that repeat your last move.
EO Untold 2 has a character whose main thing is transforming.
Stances that unlock or change abilities.
Recurring abilities like the Arcanist's Circles (which try to inflict a different ailment or bind at the end of each turn & can be spent to use other abilities).

There are so many interesting things they can add to change things up besides buff/debuff, and pick the attack or spell that the enemy is weak against. Simply adding EO's ailment + bind system alone would add so many possibilities to the SMT & Persona games.
 
OP
OP
Gold Arsene

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Finished the game. Took just shy of 50 hours, doing every request I could.
I loved it, especially the story.
For the first few Jails everything is fairly by the numbers, but enjoyable. It was nice to see Yusuke and Haru take the spotlight since they're two characters I always felt were less fleshed out than the rest, and this was the most convincing Yusuke's passion for art has ever been to me. But the worthwhile story stuff definitely comes when the plot kicks into gear and switches focus to Zenkichi, Sophia and Ichinose, who are really good characters. I felt the themes of justice were handled with more nuance here during the Konoe arc than they had been in even the original P5. While it's not like the writers denounce the Phantom Thieves or anything, the pre and post-boss scenes with Konoe where they argue their righteousness I felt were a marked improvement over the original game where there's very little legitimate questioning of their methods and it's usually dispelled very quickly.

This game felt so much clearer than Royal and in some places the original P5 in terms of knowing its themes, what it wanted to say about them, and how to get there. I found the argument that "hearts can change" much more hopeful and convincing this time round, and the focus on decisions makes so much sense in hindsight - using AI to incorporate the Sefirot into the story in a simple and elegant way was a stroke of genius. I can already tell Sophia's speech to Ichinose is going to remain one of my favorite Persona moments, it's such a beautiful scene and has so much pay off to it. They really take the AI theme as far as they can and an AI breaking its own code to choose for itself is the perfect cap-off to a story about the importance of decision-making and change. I'm sure some will be disappointed with another god final boss but the idea of an AI that has advanced to the point where it achieves a god-like status is too good a good twist on the original game's "false god" to pass up. Despite it not having any references to Royal whatsoever, it ended up probably still worth being playing Royal first, since Scramble continues the theme of following "one's chosen path" and took it a lot further.

The CG cutscenes also deserve a lot of praise. I enjoyed P5's ones, but these are on a whole other level, and there's a lot more of them. I really hope that Atlus takes some lessons from KT and can do more cutscenes like these in their own games in future.

Jails 4 and 5 are weird. I feel like they should've just accepted that 7 Jails was too ambitious with the game's budget and downsized, rather than try to meet that number by making a couple of the Jails tiny. The game doesn't have a lack of content, but it makes it feel like it does by drawing attention to it like this. It also just makes the game's pacing feel kinda wack, having 3 large Jails, 2 small ones, 1 really large one, and then another small one. 5 similar sized ones with the last Jail remaining smaller as it is would've been a better way to do it, and the fourth Jail's plot can easily be covered in a few cutscenes instead. That niggle aside, I thought the Jails themselves were pretty great. The little conversations that play while you're exploring are charming and they don't get interrupted because you open a door or enter a battle (ahem, Mementos). Not to mention they're longer than two lines and relevant to the actual setting. That said, there needs to be some restraint - there's so much battle dialogue during Konoe's boss fight that I had to pause the game just to hear what his boss theme actually sounded like. Unfortunately, I'm not a huge fan of the soundtrack, barring the battle themes, which are all fantastic. The Jail and town music is extremely forgettable and safe, which is a big disappointment after P5's Palace themes, and the majority of the cutscene music is lifted straight from the original game. Sophia's theme, the extended Jail theme that plays in Osaka Jail, and the Okinawa town music were nice, but that's really all that has stuck out to me.

Combat was usually fun, and surprisingly difficult throughout even on normal. There were a few minibosses that I couldn't help but think would be more fun if they got rid of the smaller shadows and just had the boss as the sole enemy though. Those fights with a single strong opponent were typically the most enjoyable ones. I also really enjoyed the final boss, even if it's a little repetitive - I've been wanting a Persona final boss to make use of every party member instead of just the active 4 for a long time, and I think they did it really nicely here. I doubt it was intentional but having to choose which characters fight what and then immediately realizing I'd made all the wrong choices and picked all the wrong elements but soldiering on nonetheless was very thematically fitting. I do wonder if they initially intended for you to be destroying the spheres at the same time as fighting the boss itself and switching between characters, but couldn't implement it for whatever reason.

Anyway, I really enjoyed it. The game was a lot of fun, but it's the story that really impressed me. It really feels like the people writing this game know exactly how to write P5. It has left me with so much to actually think about in regards to its themes, which I haven't felt after beating a Persona game in a while. It's such a pleasant surprise after the main things Royal left me contemplating were whether I actually enjoyed it or not, or whether it was worth the price.

Scramble 2 please Atlus.
I'm glad you loved it. As someone who loves the new story stuff in Royal I'm curious how I'll feel as I do have a few issues from what I've seen of Scramble but otherwise it sounds nice enough.

And yes give me Scramble 2 with the everyone from here and Royal. Kasumi would have such a badass moveset.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
Well, like for example, take some of the Etrian Odyssey games.

EO5 had lots of cool classes like:

A class that was a back-row gunner AND a tank and somehow that worked.
Interesting summoning classes - how cool would it be if besides personas, the MC in Persona 6 could also summon temporary monster allies?
A dodge/counter-attack tank
EO Nexus has a class whose main gimmick is creating afterimage clones that repeat your last move.
EO Untold 2 has a character whose main thing is transforming.
Stances that unlock or change abilities.
Recurring abilities like the Arcanist's Circles (which try to inflict a different ailment or bind at the end of each turn & can be spent to use other abilities).

There are so many interesting things they can add to change things up besides buff/debuff, and pick the attack or spell that the enemy is weak against. Simply adding EO's ailment + bind system alone would add so many possibilities to the SMT & Persona games.
Ahh, I see. Basically not just revamp the movesets and then apply them universally like it is now, but make characters more unique, their own individual classes, right?

Yeah, that sounds really good. Some more strategy to encounters other than the little "puzzle" of figuring out the weakness and then every encounter with that enemy plays the exact same until the end of the game.
 
Sep 4, 2019
152
And yes give me Scramble 2 with the everyone from here and Royal. Kasumi would have such a badass moveset.
I can't believe she's not DLC. Or Akechi. Koei Tecmo + Atlus had me thinking this would have more DLC than any other game to date, but outside of the battle music there's been nothing. Going by past Atlus games, chances are if we haven't heard about DLC by now, there isn't going to be any. I'm not complaining though, Royal's DLC was just ridiculous.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,357
One thing I thought was interesting about TMS was that they gave you a lot more slots to work with for each character. At the start of the game, each character has 6 active ability slots, 6 session slots (automatic moves that you chain off of other players when they hit a weakness), 6 chosen passive slots, and an unlimited number of slots for special character passive abilities that are unlocked via your stage rank AND super moves (which either cost meter points to use or are randomly triggered when you use an ability of the same element). Contrast that with the SMT & Persona games where you get at most 8 slots to fit everything in.
 
OP
OP
Gold Arsene

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I can't believe she's not DLC. Or Akechi. Koei Tecmo + Atlus had me thinking this would have more DLC than any other game to date, but outside of the battle music there's been nothing. Going by past Atlus games, chances are if we haven't heard about DLC by now, there isn't going to be any. I'm not complaining though, Royal's DLC was just ridiculous.
I find it very odd given both companies records regarding DLC. My hope is they're being quite because they're doing a meaty expansion but with my luck we'll get Persona 5 Scramble Royal edition next year.
 

Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
The reason I didn't finish P5 was the slow dungeons and the calendar structure of the overall game. Seems like this game might at least fix the first one being action and all that, but the second might still be an issue.

But reading about elemental aspects being more important means it has more RPG components to it, which I like. I hope they release a demo for the English release as well.
 

cyappu

Member
Jun 4, 2019
620
I'm partway through the first jail and I'm already finding the combat a bit overwhelming... ARPGs were never my thing.

But I'll push through for the story (and music).

I feel since I'm bad at action combat, I would do better to just pick one character and stick to them and learn their playstyle thoroughly...but would that put me at a disadvantage? Does dynamic character switching become necessary going forward? (Keeping in mind that I'm bad at action games)
 
Sep 4, 2019
152
The reason I didn't finish P5 was the slow dungeons and the calendar structure of the overall game. Seems like this game might at least fix the first one being action and all that, but the second might still be an issue.
There isn't really a calendar system in P5S. There are no time management mechanics in the game whatsoever. It plays out more like a conventional game storyline where you'll have an objective, and once that's completed the story and the date will move forward, but until you decide to do that, you can do as you please. There's no waiting for deadlines.
 

Exentryk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
There isn't really a calendar system in P5S. There are no time management mechanics in the game whatsoever. It plays out more like a conventional game storyline where you'll have an objective, and once that's completed the story and the date will move forward, but until you decide to do that, you can do as you please. There's no waiting for deadlines.
That sounds better. Thanks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,476
Did I miss where I told me how to re-use my phone and get back into the options menu? I need to invert before I go on

Edit: got it
 
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Modest_Modsoul

Living the Dreams
Member
Oct 29, 2017
23,600
The CG cutscenes also deserve a lot of praise. I enjoyed P5's ones, but these are on a whole other level, and there's a lot more of them. I really hope that Atlus takes some lessons from KT and can do more cutscenes like these in their own games in future.
I agree with this.

Their own in-engine cut-scenes in P5 or Scramble looks great instead traditional anime cut-scenes.
 

Dragon1893

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,446
It's weird that Kasumi isn't in this. Gonna be strange going from Royal to this and have a missing character.
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,485
I've never understood why games do this.
Honestly, while i do think it's kinda dissapointing about the lack of hand-drawn cutscenes. The more i thought about this and this is a personal opinion but i was never too fond of the Hand-Drawn Cutscenes in Persona Games with 3 being the expection due to it's stylization compartively. The cutscenes in 5 look kinda generic and i think i may prefer the in engine cutscenes (though it all depends on how much budget goes into them - Scramble definetly has some budget skimping)
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
Finally had some time to sit down and play the demo. My japanese is rusty as all get out, but everything was simple (and tropey) enough that I followed without any real problem. Figured I'd just order the Japanese version instead of waiting but man... that 9900 yen price tag on the switch eshop....
 

GSR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,662
I wound up dropping this around the time the quarantine started, but I picked it back up a few weeks ago and I'm enjoying it a lot.

The combat is pretty overwhelming at first, but once it clicked with me more how much this really is close to a 1:1 conversion of the Persona battle system to ARPG musou style I was able to get the hang of it. There are the occasional fights that feel like more of a slog/question of how much SP restoration I've got stored because of the game's heavy emphasis on exploiting weak points, but overall I find the combat to be a good mix of Persona strategic thinking and raw musou button-mashing satisfaction. I'm enjoying it a lot more than I expected to.

Story-wise, I'm just up to the start of the fourth arc (just spent the night in Kyoto) and I'm not terribly impressed. I like Zenkichi as a character a lot and now that his story's picking up I'm curious to see where it'll go, but Sophie hasn't done much for me yet, and the main cast is very much in "if you liked them in P5, you'll like them here" mode without a lot of growth or change. And the first three targets were pretty darn dull, with the usual Persona bad design decisions rearing their heads on two of the bosses (are we gonna make the idol character's shadow a sexy rabbit lady? Of course. Are we going to have a thin character's shadow be absurdly obese, introduced devouring a feast by herself, and turning into a giant blob that tries to eat you for a boss fight? Why not! Nothing eye-rolling about that trope.)

I'll see it through to the end, but at the moment this feels like a very inessential sequel with pretty good gameplay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,395
I know it's a long bump but I figure this is the best place to ask

Does the game have any homophobic or transphobic content?
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,055
I know it's a long bump but I figure this is the best place to ask

Does the game have any homophobic or transphobic content?
I've not heard of any, but that doesn't mean there isn't.

I've heard of one thing that I don't think is malicious, but more tone deaf.


The Torah is either the final or near final bosses, and it's secretly controlling society. The Jewish book...secretly controlling society...is not a good look when in the real world, it's a common antisemitic conspiracy of "Jews run the world".

I think that one is incredibly tone deaf and not outright malicious, but still not great.

Edit: I'm wrong, see below post.

Edit: I'm wrong, see below post.
 
Last edited:
Sep 4, 2019
152
I know it's a long bump but I figure this is the best place to ask

Does the game have any homophobic or transphobic content?
No.

I've not heard of any, but that doesn't mean there isn't.

I've heard of one thing that I don't think is malicious, but more tone deaf.


The Torah is either the final or near final bosses, and it's secretly controlling society. The Jewish book...secretly controlling society...is not a good look when in the real world, it's a common antisemitic conspiracy of "Jews run the world".

I think that one is incredibly tone deaf and not outright malicious, but still not great.
Your info's a bit off there.
It's not the Torah; it's the Ark of the Covenant and it's depicted as a giant box, not a book. It doesn't control society, it aims to provide the ideal answers to society, hence being named after the vessel that houses the ten commandments. The info that it's the Torah Ark is a mistranslation because the Japanese term for a Torah Ark you'd find in a Jewish synagogue and the Ark of the Covenant is the same, but it's meant to be the latter. Unless Atlus West makes the same translation mistake, I don't think it should offend anyone in context.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,055
No.


Your info's a bit off there.
It's not the Torah; it's the Ark of the Covenant and it's depicted as a giant box, not a book. It doesn't control society, it aims to provide the ideal answers to society, hence being named after the vessel that houses the ten commandments. The info that it's the Torah Ark is a mistranslation because the Japanese term for a Torah Ark you'd find in a Jewish synagogue and the Ark of the Covenant is the same, but it's meant to be the latter. Unless Atlus West makes the same translation mistake, I don't think it should offend anyone in context.
Thank you for that clarification!