User Banned (1 week): dismissive drive-by
Bit of "look at that bitch eating crackers" going on here.
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Pete Buttigieg says being gay helps him relate to the struggles that black people face in America, statement has angered some black people
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User Banned (1 week): dismissive drive-by
Was about to say the same thing.
No one is, except in the factual sense that both groups face oppression for simply existing.
The relating of LGBT issues to the plight of African Americans has to stop. I don't think white people understand that the moment you do that you turn black people, for the most part, all the way off. No matter hour smartly you try to frame the relationship it just doesn't fly. You think you are gaining an ally but you are really driving a wedge between us.
The message isn't going to relate the way you think it will and it never has so please just stop.
The message isn't going to relate the way you think it will and it never has so please just stop.
Anyone that finds his statement to be "fine" is either white af or truly just ignorant. The comparison is completely off-base and the discrimination between black people and the LGBT community are not related.
What the fuck does Pete know about that shit anyways? He constantly praises fighting in a war that affected (or ended) the lives of millions of Middle Eastern citizens, and his constant catch-up attempts to gain ground with black voters just keeps proving why he has so little black support in the first place. He couldn't even handle race relations in his own town, why does anyone think he will suddenly cause a mass pivot for support? The guy has two debates left in him tops, and this entire process has been between Biden, Warren and Sanders basically since day one.
What the fuck does Pete know about that shit anyways? He constantly praises fighting in a war that affected (or ended) the lives of millions of Middle Eastern citizens, and his constant catch-up attempts to gain ground with black voters just keeps proving why he has so little black support in the first place. He couldn't even handle race relations in his own town, why does anyone think he will suddenly cause a mass pivot for support? The guy has two debates left in him tops, and this entire process has been between Biden, Warren and Sanders basically since day one.
User Banned (2 weeks): Whataboutism and inflammatory comments surrounding race
Not a good thing to say even if it's meant with good intentions. Everybody thinks their plight is worse than others after all.
I've never understood why gay white people get attacked and singled out by the black community/people in general, but the LGBTQ community doesn't do the same for the straight black community?? (I mean I'm glad we don't, it's gross and messy).
He's saying this as a gay man not a white man, you don't get to throw all of us gay white men in the same field as general 'white' people and then not call out homophobia within the black community (which pretty much hardly ever gets mentioned).
The hypocrisy winds me up and rears its head around here too much ....
I've never understood why gay white people get attacked and singled out by the black community/people in general, but the LGBTQ community doesn't do the same for the straight black community?? (I mean I'm glad we don't, it's gross and messy).
He's saying this as a gay man not a white man, you don't get to throw all of us gay white men in the same field as general 'white' people and then not call out homophobia within the black community (which pretty much hardly ever gets mentioned).
The hypocrisy winds me up and rears its head around here too much ....
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Us Blacks have had a different type of experience when it comes to systemic oppression. The history and the struggle is different. Buttigieg is just a weirdo, the amount of pandering and trying to gain Black support is cringe at best. It's clear from these links he doesn't even care about Black issues, just wants the vote:
Sounds fine at first glance but it demonstrates to me he doesn't really understand the ills plaguing either the black nor lgbt communities.
Same thing as everyone else, reading just the article headline and not what Buttigieg actually said.
Not that I think Pete deserves to be heard out or whatever. His record sucks. But no one in this thread actually seems interested in what he said, which absolutely was not "I'm gay so I get black people."
No ,the person I quotedid basically saying black people have no right to criticize a white gay man because we're all essentially homophobic
EDIT: it's just as bad as saying "why do black people criticize the police when an unarmed black person gets murdered by them but never the gun violence in their communities?"
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I'm not really a fan of Pete but that quote seems fine to me.
Very different pasts but a similar struggle for global acceptance. I don't see much wrong in his statement and I don't mean this in a way to downplay one's plight or another. One oppressed minority can relate to another, even though their stories are different. At least in a better way than a fully priviledged individual.
A lot of groups face discrimination. Women for instance. Pete trying to say his male, white, ass can empathize with the plight of the type of racial discrimination black people face on the daily just because he's gay is about as misguided as a white woman trying to make the same argument by bringing up the discrimination and inequalities they face. It's not a competition, but really you're playing up the wrong thing if you're trying to convince anyone of your sincerity.
His campaign has tried to erase the black experience since it began, so pretending like this is some isolated statement is ignoring everything else they've done.
If he's nominated I think he's hoping a black VP and Trump vitriol will drown out the criticism.
If he's nominated I think he's hoping a black VP and Trump vitriol will drown out the criticism.
He's the Gina Rodriguez of politicians.
Keeps throwing black people under the bus, and in this case, says something that wouldn't have been as controversial if it was said by another person, but because it's him he's lost the benefit of the doubt
Keeps throwing black people under the bus, and in this case, says something that wouldn't have been as controversial if it was said by another person, but because it's him he's lost the benefit of the doubt
You really want to go down this path in this thread, huh? Because there are plenty of stories of racism from the white gay community we could get into if you want.
Imagine typing this shit out thinking you made some good point.
1) It doesn't work like that. He can't relate to me, a black man, about discrimination because we aren't discriminated the same way anymore than I can relate to Asian women discrimination. A blind person and a deaf person are both handicapped, but their hindrances to daily life aren't the same.
2) Considering how he threw black people under the bus in his town, I don't know how anybody thinks he's being sincere. "My discrimination due to being gay totally makes me relate to racial discrimination. Let me still side with the racist cops because..... LOL"
I'm more surprised by people in this thread dismissing those that find Pete's phrasing concerning (especially when taken in the context of his actions). I see talk about Pete coming off as empathetic here. Maybe a little self reflection is due.
And another phrase I keep seeing in this thread is "people don't understand nuance/empathy in 2019". When exactly did people understand those things and when did you become the gatekeeper? Because that rote language sure shows a lack of both those things.
And another phrase I keep seeing in this thread is "people don't understand nuance/empathy in 2019". When exactly did people understand those things and when did you become the gatekeeper? Because that rote language sure shows a lack of both those things.
I can see how one group of oppressed people can learn from perspective wise another group of oppressed people. I don't think that diminishes either groups struggles. And this happens already on a regular basis with LGBT, who in theory are different oppressed groups rallying together.
Turning oppression into a competition (I think I saw people refer to this as "Oppression Olympics") is really sad. Everyone is better together.
Turning oppression into a competition (I think I saw people refer to this as "Oppression Olympics") is really sad. Everyone is better together.
What board do you think you're on? Plenty of people have rightly given him shit for that. Stuff like this though, a completely uncontroversial comment? Look at Pete eating crackers like he owns the place
I'm usually the first to criticize Pete when he deserves it (and that's very frequently) but it's pretty clear what he's saying here - being part of an often maligned minority helps him relate to the struggles of another. It's not a contest of which group is the most opressed.
The guy is empathising. Maybe he was clumsy and misguided doing it, yeah. We all know he will never attain your perfect standards.
I think this argument would work better if the main criticisms in the article didn't actively downplay the suffering and oppression of closeted LGBT+ peoples around the world:
You can't have it both ways, and a straight person no matter the colour does not have the right to criticise people adopting their own struggles when they themselves decide to make wide-reaching statements about the struggles of people who are not them. Say what you want about Buttigieg (and, yeah, he does really look like a typical older white politician who cares little for anyone who isn't him) but at least he didn't say argue that black people had it "easier" than him in the way the person criticising him did.
Unless you're black, no matter how much you empathize, no matter how much you can 'relate', no matter how sympathetic you are, you just won't understand the experience. I'm all for listening to people's views and having a discussion but... I guess I'll say this:
One thing that always rubs me the wrong way is how people separate being black and being LGBT+. It might not be intentional, but I've seen it happen in a lot of cases, from white and black people, where its as if that very specific experience is completely unheard of. It's either the 'LGBT+' experience or the 'black' experience. But maybe that's a good thing as the black LGBT+ experience is very, very, and I mean VERY different than the white LGBT+ experience, no matter the parallels or similarities.
With that being said, that is where I take issue with the statement. Good intentions I'm sure, but that's not really the point. I'm always one to say that it shouldn't really be too much of a contest between minorities about who is more 'oppressed', but quite frankly, at some point, the facts are the facts. That doesn't mean one can't fight for multiple causes though and break that entire system.
But being a white gay still offers you a vast amount of privilege that living as a black gay does not. Not only do we have to take shit for simply existing as black people in the country, but also take shit from not only 'a lot' of our community, and the very same community that oppresses us.
Just my two cents.
One thing that always rubs me the wrong way is how people separate being black and being LGBT+. It might not be intentional, but I've seen it happen in a lot of cases, from white and black people, where its as if that very specific experience is completely unheard of. It's either the 'LGBT+' experience or the 'black' experience. But maybe that's a good thing as the black LGBT+ experience is very, very, and I mean VERY different than the white LGBT+ experience, no matter the parallels or similarities.
With that being said, that is where I take issue with the statement. Good intentions I'm sure, but that's not really the point. I'm always one to say that it shouldn't really be too much of a contest between minorities about who is more 'oppressed', but quite frankly, at some point, the facts are the facts. That doesn't mean one can't fight for multiple causes though and break that entire system.
But being a white gay still offers you a vast amount of privilege that living as a black gay does not. Not only do we have to take shit for simply existing as black people in the country, but also take shit from not only 'a lot' of our community, and the very same community that oppresses us.
Just my two cents.
I find it odd that so many are talking about nuance while ignoring the context of the person who is being discussed.
The reason some people are upset with what was being said, even though the exact quote would be fine coming from someone without the baggage, is because his actions directly go against it.
If there were a black man who said that being black helped him understand the plight of gay people and then you realized that the black man who said it is Kevin Hart you would be annoyed just the same.
The reason some people are upset with what was being said, even though the exact quote would be fine coming from someone without the baggage, is because his actions directly go against it.
If there were a black man who said that being black helped him understand the plight of gay people and then you realized that the black man who said it is Kevin Hart you would be annoyed just the same.
Pretty much, people can be cool with it and feel how they like, but personally, I hate that shit. You want to describe your challenges, cool. You don't need to start drawing parallels with black folk in an poor effort to relate because your other strategies aren't working.
Wait what's wrong with his comments here?
They are 100% true.
For me personally as a black man who has been around alot of black people often reactions like this are caused by the often terrible homophobic culture we black people live in.
The main argument against it is that "gay people can be closeted their oppression is different, and lesser, than ours" and not that his actions show the comment to be hypocritical (which is true, and would be a much better way to call him out). Yes the context is there but from my perspective they criticisms are primarily coming from a straight person doing the exact same thing he's criticising Buttigieg for but in a much more explicit manner.
You can hide being gay, you can't hide being black. Thats why some people feel a way about it. and I understand it. There are cross-sections and commentary like this should be coming from a totally intersectional approach rather than an approach based on comparing struggles.
