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catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
The right-leaning agenda is something I saw and caused me to stop watching. I just don't conflate that with literally being a nazi.
I feel like this reflexive need to defend nazis is really common in debates like this, and I don't really understand it. Who are you to say he's not a nazi when he clearly engages in the practices of one, by your own admission?

if you practice and spread the beliefs of a nazi, you're a nazi, regardless of what secret morality is or isnt present in your heart.

The only thing some inner, private moral character might provide u is the ability to atone for your beliefs in the future, something so far pdp has shown no predilection for.

Every apologist in this thread needs to start holding people accountable for their behavior.
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
7,611
Texas
It still blows my mind that at some point this dude was just a guy sitting at his PC with his bubbly girlfriend screaming to slenderman on twitch and now he's promoting hate and contributing to mass shootings.
 

Wolfgunblood

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,748
The Land
I'm sure it's been said here in this thread at this point, but PewDiePie (god that fucking name) is a hero to hate groups because he achieved fame while utilizing modern hate group tactics, which is to hide it in plain sight using internet humor and trolling. He is using their playbook and showing the world that it can be used to great effect while avoiding accountability.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
He's part of the highly embarrassing meme culture, where a lot of the alt-right nonsense is tolerated. Not sure what you can ask of this guy though. He seems very shallow, uneducated and naive to say the least. No wonder a lot of bigoted people flock to his channel.
 

Annoying Old Party Man

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
966
I agree, but I also don't think he is capable of the self reflection necessary to show and affect actual change, if he was, we would never have reached this point. At that juncture my primary and overriding concern is to minimize any further damage this man might cause.

Sadly, I think you are right. This should be the priority right now.

He tweeted this also, though:



He is also right, for better or worse.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
Regarding this whole "it's all just memes" stuff, don't people consider for even one moment that that's nonsense these people want spread all over the Internet to give them cover, so they can hide in plain sight, that they can say this stuff completely in the open without a care in the world, and then when something like the Christchurch mosque shootings happen people can be all shocked because they thought all that stuff was "just memes" and jokes when that was all just cover? Don't you think they want that cover so they can hide in plain sight?

To link this to other contemporary events, if people have seen the Leaving Neverland documentary on Michael Jackson and all that, don't you realize that Michael Jackson was using his own version of memes and just joking back then to groom and then molest and abuse children, and just hide in plain sight in much the same way? Except in his case, it was pretending to be a child-in-an-adult's-body and all innocent and pure and childlike, even adopting a very childlike voice when he spoke in public when he could speak normally perfectly fine and every single bit of that was just an act. It was all just an act so he could hide in plain sight, and so when people saw him hanging out with children all the time and even talking openly about sharing the same bedroom with children, and all that, they'd see literally nothing wrong with that, because as MJ had fooled everyone into believing, he was "just a child in a man's body" and suffered from a fictional Peter-Pan syndrome in all that. Hiding in plain sight, doing it right in front of people's eyes, the safest place he could possibly be.

Same thing. The entire point of the "it's all just memes and jokes" is to give people like this cover. So they can hide in plain sight, so everyone does indeed think it's just jokes and there's nothing wrong, until tragedies like this happen and inevitably happen again. That's exactly what they want, to hide in plain sight, the safest place they could possibly be hiding, so that people are shocked and all surprised and have no idea what happened and are all caught off caught. Don't let them. Do not let them have that cover, don't let them hide behind memes and jokes in the light of day, when that's exactly what they want, to be able to hide behind them so that people don't see anything wrong and don't suspect a thing until it's too late. Saying it's "just memes" gives them the cover to do this stuff in broad daylight, to get people to think nothing other than they are joking until it's too late and they were dangerous and a threat the whole time. Do not let them have that cover, because it's exactly what they want, as it allows them to hide in the safest place they possibly could, in plain sight where they can post whatever they want all over social media and people don't suspect a thing because "it's just memes and jokes and stuff"... until it turns out it was anything but joking around he entire time.

Like, everytime a mass shooting like this happens, people inevitably end up finding the shooters' social media pages and all that, and very often they do end up containing all kinds of fucked up stuff and warning signs and everything, and when that scenario plays out people tend to be like "why was nothing done sooner? The warning signs were all there!" Part of that is due to exactly this: that before tragedies like that happen, all that stuff is just treated as memes and jokes... until it turns out they were never joking at all and all the jokes were just cover and what you were seeing weren't memes and jokes, but red flags galore. And that's what they want: to hide in plain sight, to be dismissed as just kidding, until it turns out they were deadly serious. Don't give them the cover.

It's always a joke... 'til it's not.
 
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Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
I liked Skillups channel too.

Why does this forum trigger so many people. Jeez.
Actually speaking out against bigotry and hatred or discussing how things actually work with regards to influencing and pushing horrible ideas triggers those who want to do that or don't have the ability to think of things critically and take it as a personal attack (probably because they are shitty people who get caught up in the discussions).
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
It's absolutely incredible that Fuckhead YouTubers can joke about White Supremacy and Antisemitism, AltRight talk heads can virtually spout hate speech about non white demo groups.....

And all this rhetoric and actions can never be tied to inciting and inspiring the violence of the people who follow and listen to them.....

For some magically reason, they have to be separated with no connection whatsoever....


But Jussie Smollett lies about a hate crime and somehow his personal actions have to "blanket and stain the entire black and gay community".....


Whiteness will do a 720 backflip to never hold itself accountable. White People can never do anything wrong. It's everyone else who is causing so much hatred and division. Clearly.


If it's any consolation this is one of those days when as a white person I get to feel like shit because of someone else's actions but I don't get to feel like this makes me a victim. If people try to pin something on your for your skin colour, at least you know it's bullshit. And this is not a plea for sympathy, because that would be ridicolous, but I promise you it still sucks.

I feel like I'm living groundhog day sometimes, every week asking people not to use the N word, seeing some guy say stuff like "the f****** muslim scored" to comment a Salah goal in a football chat, and you can't really push those away or walk away because it's people you've known for 20 years, and you don't get to decide who's in and who's out. Heck, you're the odd one. You fight, you argue, it seems like it's better, two weeks later it's the same shit, and you're the annoying asshole with a broom stuck up his ass. Then a day like this comes and you have to ask yourself if you did enough, and it's haunting. Again, don't take this as "we're the real victims here" bullshit - but really, it sucks.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
I mean, if he isn't a nazi, then at the very least he is a nazi sympathizer.
I just don't see that, I'm sorry. He's an irresponsible adult kid who hasn't realized how mindless stuff you say for fun, especially outright offensive things, are going to influence the people who think you are cool. But I will never not see the Fivrr incident that spawned the "PDP is a nazi" news as anything but irresponsible tomfoolery, where "anti-semitism is too sick of a meme!"

I think PDP is a guy who himself spent a lot of time browsing on 4chan and loves anti-PC humor.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
He's part of the highly embarrassing meme culture, where a lot of the alt-right nonsense is tolerated. Not sure what you can ask of this guy though. He seems very shallow, uneducated and naive to say the least. No wonder a lot of bigoted people flock to his channel.
That's the thing. The shit is dead simple. Listen to marginalized people when they say that something is harmful and work to change your behavior. That's the only thing the disenfranchised have ever really wanted from anyone let alone the people with influence and power. It's not a big ask. It's not a giant hurdle. It's not a challenge or effort that requires any strain and it will do wonders in keeping their names out of the mouth of people like these recent shooters. It's dead simple for all people who find themselves being called or lumped in alongside bigots but they aren't interested in listening and aren't interested in growing. The rules are the same as they've always been. PDP is uneducated and naive and chooses to stay that way. He literally had an in with Disney and fucked it up because he thought it was more worthwhile to laugh at the expense of Jews.

I just don't see that, I'm sorry. He's an irresponsible adult kid who hasn't realized how mindless stuff you say for fun, especially outright offensive things, are going to influence the people who think you are cool. But I will never not see the Fivrr incident that spawned the "PDP is a nazi" news as anything but irresponsible tomfoolery, where "anti-semitism is too sick of a meme!"

I think PDP is a guy who himself spent a lot of time browsing on 4chan and loves anti-PC humor.
There is no excuse. He's irresponsible. He's dumb. He loves anti-PC "humor". So what? At some point he is consciously making a choice to participate in a way that sides him with nazis and their ilk. He is a damn millionaire for crying out loud. He can handle his channel and all that money but suddenly in regards to his language "he doesn't really know what he's doing and thinks it's all fun and games and lolmemes? 1-800-Come the fuck on now.

There is nothing to hide behind. So he finds it fun. And? That really doesn't make him different from lifetime Klan members or neo-nazis. Just because he finds it fun and jokey doesn't mean he's suddenly separated from the culture he feeds into. He trades in their language and associates with their venerated celebrities. Making a distinction has no merit. What exactly do you think is the fall out of calling it what it is and please don't say "we rob being a nazi of all its meaning" or some such because that just as pathetically naive as PDP believing he doesn't have any sway over thousands of people.
 
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catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
I just don't see that, I'm sorry. He's an irresponsible adult kid who hasn't realized how mindless stuff you say for fun, especially outright offensive things, are going to influence the people who think you are cool.

What's the significant difference between somebody who presents and materially supports nazi ideology sympathetically as a joke because he lacks the morality/responsibility to denounce it,
and somebody who presents and materially supports nazi ideology sympathetically because he lacks the morality/responsibility to denounce it?
 

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710
Of all the news I was expecting to read this morning, I never thought that a horrible terrorist attack would be linked somehow with PewDiePie. But that's the unchecked meme culture for you.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,549
I know I'm just one more voice in the chorus here, but this whole "we shouldn't argue about this, it's what the shooter wanted! Didn't you see his manifesto!?" is so obnoxiously frustrating.

I haven't seen the document, but assuming he did say his goal was to divide people, etc. These ideas didn't come from nowhere. In the age of Putin/Trump/Fox having "divide and conquer" as their mission statement, this dude didn't pull that out of his ass. He also didn't shoot up a Christian Church, had to be a mosque. It's almost as if *gasp* he's yet another right wing terrorist with very easily traceable roots to his ideas.

But no, we shouldn't have those conversations because "it's what he wanted". F off with that noise.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
PDP has bred a fanatically defensive fanbase on a ginormous scale. He can do no wrong. Anyone who attempts to call him out is viewed as persecuting him. One can draw parallels to the cult around someone like Michael Jackson. But worse than this is that his inappropriate remarks and behavior paired with his unwillingness to upset those fanatically defensive fans have resulted in him breeding a very unpleasant racist, sexist, generally nasty group of vocal fans. This unfortunately happens to a lot of gaming personalities. They feed the metaphorical crocodile hoping it will eat them last. People like PDP are less afraid of the repercussions of uttering a terrible ethnic slur than they are of rocking the boat, of splashing water on their audience. Their fanbase will rush to their defense in the former case. But if they step on the wrong landmine, take the "wrong" side of any issue, they risk a mass-revolt. They have spent years immersed in an internet culture where acts of cruelty are "just a joke", a culture that whiplashes like crazy, that lashes out against game developers in a way that is unprecedented in other artistic mediums except maybe country music, and has grown more and more violent and hateful in recent years.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
I don't even know how to process this still. It's just so fucked up that we reached this seemingly tragically inevitable point - not by nature, but by a lack of nothing being done - that it feels surreal. And so maybe I've missed some news and reactions to this.

But even this, even fucking this, just feels like it's apparently not enough to make it clear that this a problem to people? I can't help but feel we're still gonna be going back to business as usual, one random dude who just lucked into having direct access to millions and millions of people is helping to influence them right into white supremacy, and nothing will be done about it because everybody with power over this refuses to be responsible in any way that actually accomplishes anything instead of fucking prolonged fumbling in the dark.

Google/YouTube won't do anything, Twitter won't do shit because they're too busy worrying about people having good conversations or some shit instead of outright banning people pushing abhorrent things, and people will still post "oh, it's the internet, you can't just remove them" as if these are not fucking businesses with control over their platforms, that they profit off of. It's a thing I've felt increasingly hopeless about over the past few months and it just keeps escalating.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
I just don't see that, I'm sorry. He's an irresponsible adult kid who hasn't realized how mindless stuff you say for fun, especially outright offensive things, are going to influence the people who think you are cool. But I will never not see the Fivrr incident that spawned the "PDP is a nazi" news as anything but irresponsible tomfoolery, where "anti-semitism is too sick of a meme!"

I think PDP is a guy who himself spent a lot of time browsing on 4chan and loves anti-PC humor.
There is more than that one incident, you're just choosing to ignore everything else. Pewdiepie is trying to show you who he is and you're just looking the other way
 
Nov 20, 2017
3,613
I just don't see that, I'm sorry. He's an irresponsible adult kid who hasn't realized how mindless stuff you say for fun, especially outright offensive things, are going to influence the people who think you are cool. But I will never not see the Fivrr incident that spawned the "PDP is a nazi" news as anything but irresponsible tomfoolery, where "anti-semitism is too sick of a meme!"

I think PDP is a guy who himself spent a lot of time browsing on 4chan and loves anti-PC humor.

This is like the Michael Jackson Adult Baby defense, but repurposed.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
What's the significant difference between somebody who presents and materially supports nazi ideology sympathetically as a joke because he lacks the morality/responsibility to denounce it,
and somebody who presents and materially supports nazi ideology sympathetically because he lacks the morality/responsibility to denounce it?
Difference is that the individual doesn't intend harm on other people; example 1 is someone with an actual agenda because they hate jews or other forms of minorities and want to see the world burn, and example 2 is someone who doesn't realize it's going to create more hate but their agenda was not that.
 

Red Arremer

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
12,259
I just don't see that, I'm sorry. He's an irresponsible adult kid who hasn't realized how mindless stuff you say for fun, especially outright offensive things, are going to influence the people who think you are cool. But I will never not see the Fivrr incident that spawned the "PDP is a nazi" news as anything but irresponsible tomfoolery, where "anti-semitism is too sick of a meme!"

I think PDP is a guy who himself spent a lot of time browsing on 4chan and loves anti-PC humor.

Then why is he following Paul Watson, Lauren Southern, Steven Crowder, Ben Shapiro and other alt-right figureheads on Twitter, and shared their ideas and content with his own followers? Fully consciously? With full knowledge of whom these people are, what kind of content they produce, and what ideas they stand for?
You can't tell me that he accidentally clicked the follow button or is ironically following them for the memes.
 

Cake Boss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,068
I just don't see that, I'm sorry. He's an irresponsible adult kid who hasn't realized how mindless stuff you say for fun, especially outright offensive things, are going to influence the people who think you are cool. But I will never not see the Fivrr incident that spawned the "PDP is a nazi" news as anything but irresponsible tomfoolery, where "anti-semitism is too sick of a meme!"

I think PDP is a guy who himself spent a lot of time browsing on 4chan and loves anti-PC humor.

Lmao what spin is this.
 

DoubleTake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,529
What's the significant difference between somebody who presents and materially supports nazi ideology sympathetically as a joke because he lacks the morality/responsibility to denounce it,
and somebody who presents and materially supports nazi ideology sympathetically because he lacks the morality/responsibility to denounce it?

His answer will be the "its a joke" part. Which is wrong and also precisely what Pewdiepie and all others like him want you to believe.
 

catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
Difference is that the individual doesn't intend harm on other people, but example 1 is someone with an actual agenda because they hate jews or other forms of minorities and want to see the world burn, and example 2 is someone who doesn't realize it's going to create more hate but their agenda was not that.

imo that's a significant detail for historians and sociologists to talk about in the future when they analyze how this all went down (like it was with the many nazi collaborators of different ideologies in the 30s and 40s.) -- because just like every white supremecist movement, the spread of this one is actually based on a complicated and non-uniform coalition of different levels of engagement and ideology.

but in this moment, when we're deciding how to actually behave about a man who has spent his career joking about white supremecy and endorsing actual white supremecists who do real politics and have real effects:

an adult man (with a great deal of wealth and power, no less) is responsible for how he behaves. Attempting to dig into what he really believed and paint him as some kind of am innocent naive is distracting apologism.

(edited to expand my arguments)
 

Akileese

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,698
Convenient though isn't it, that when the shooter has been clearly radicalized by these people that they ask everyone to stop looking at any potential motives behind their actions, anything that they said or did that led them to this?

Full disclosure: I think Ethan is a complete and total shithead. He propagates the same bullshit that the rest of them do.

I understand where you and others are coming from and the more I think about it, I was probably wrong and there were probably ulterior motives to their comments, but I agree with that basic message of not giving press to shooters. It's a long standing belief I've had and I was a bit blinded by it. There's definitely a challenge between discussing motive with a shooter while not giving them the press and coverage that they 1) Desire, 2) Might influence someone else to perform a similar violent act.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
User Banned (2 weeks): Downplaying hate speech
Then why is he following Paul Watson, Lauren Southern, Steven Crowder, Ben Shapiro and other alt-right figureheads on Twitter, and shared their ideas and content with his own followers? Fully consciously? With full knowledge of whom these people are, what kind of content they produce, and what ideas they stand for?
You can't tell me that he accidentally clicked the follow button or is ironically following them for the memes.
It's worth pointing out that a lot of the time (and let's especially roll back at least 5 years) while all of those people are controversial and ultimately trolls, none of them had particularly rallying viewpoints about causing violence or spreading the hate. People will always believe they are the morally justified party, and while the slippery slopes lead to hatred and bigotry, I believe a lot of people who followed them are as simple as "I don't care for all this caring in the world" which is shitty but not as shitty as "I want to spread some hate and promote violence!". I know it's shitty to even make that distinction but when people keep conflating lesser evils as being equally bad you have to set the record straight. We're human and we all err, and no one individual is worse than the people who actually take weapons in their hands and murder someone else.
 

ParmeSean

Member
May 14, 2018
856
People are getting shot and killed but some of you are still going on "its just memes guys." Deplatform the nazis and erase them out of system kthx
 

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710
Fuck the replies to that tweet. Shit heels feeling bad for PewDiePie. Like fuck off he doesn't know or care about you, and you defend him likes he's your friend. Sick of these idiots that can't discern the difference between reality and online or even the difference between an actual person you know and a "celebrity"

Sadly this is what the current internet culture allows. If a journalist/media say something you don't like, he's obviusly lying, he's not close to your or is a faceless corporation, ergo we shouldn't believe him. But if this beloved youtuber who I watch every single day says something, I'll forgive him, cause he didn't mean it, "he's my friend". This is a terrifying thing to see on our current generation of kids, who believe this youtuber you always watch is actually your confident and close to you.

Just to clarify, I point to this but, as always, the ones who should be checking and talking that out are the parents, because nobody should be doing the parenting for them.
 

Jecht

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,650
It's worth pointing out that a lot of the time (and let's especially roll back at least 5 years) while all of those people are controversial and ultimately trolls, none of them had particularly rallying viewpoints about causing violence or spreading the hate. People will always believe they are the morally justified party, and while the slippery slopes lead to hatred and bigotry, I believe a lot of people who followed them are as simple as "I don't care for all this caring in the world" which is shitty but not as shitty as "I want to spread some hate and promote violence!".

You have absolutely no idea what the fuck you're talking about. And that fact that you are here caping for LITERAL Nazis is disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,276
If it's any consolation this is one of those days when as a white person I get to feel like shit because of someone else's actions but I don't get to feel like this makes me a victim. If people try to pin something on your for your skin colour, at least you know it's bullshit. And this is not a plea for sympathy, because that would be ridicolous, but I promise you it still sucks.

I feel like I'm living groundhog day sometimes, every week asking people not to use the N word, seeing some guy say stuff like "the f****** muslim scored" to comment a Salah goal in a football chat, and you can't really push those away or walk away because it's people you've known for 20 years, and you don't get to decide who's in and who's out. Heck, you're the odd one. You fight, you argue, it seems like it's better, two weeks later it's the same shit, and you're the annoying asshole with a broom stuck up his ass. Then a day like this comes and you have to ask yourself if you did enough, and it's haunting. Again, don't take this as "we're the real victims here" bullshit - but really, it sucks.

What we really have to internalize is that frankly some White People simply don't care. They don't empathize, they don't sympathize. It's easier to dehumanize and look at people as an other.

And with this being the sobering fact, it's simply time for people to realize that we need to move past fake ass "integration and tolerance".

It doesn't exist. These people do not want anything to do with others. So I'd much rather we stop pretending to like each other and just keep it moving. We're pretty much at that point in the modern era.
 

catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
It's worth pointing out that a lot of the time (and let's especially roll back at least 5 years) while all of those people are controversial and ultimately trolls, none of them had particularly rallying viewpoints about causing violence or spreading the hate. People will always believe they are the morally justified party, and while the slippery slopes lead to hatred and bigotry, I believe a lot of people who followed them are as simple as "I don't care for all this caring in the world" which is shitty but not as shitty as "I want to spread some hate and promote violence!".

Painting paul watson and ben shapiro as "trolls" when they're real people with real political impact and real policies is a startling level of naivety. You gotta start doing some research or bow out of talking about stuff like this dude.
 

GravaGravity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,223
I just don't see that, I'm sorry. He's an irresponsible adult kid who hasn't realized how mindless stuff you say for fun, especially outright offensive things, are going to influence the people who think you are cool. But I will never not see the Fivrr incident that spawned the "PDP is a nazi" news as anything but irresponsible tomfoolery, where "anti-semitism is too sick of a meme!"

I think PDP is a guy who himself spent a lot of time browsing on 4chan and loves anti-PC humor.
Why are you so obsessed with the labeling of the man instead of his actions and their repercussions?

"He didn't mean it!" doesn't work as a defense in situations which are contributing to getting people killed. If anything it condems him further as either a idiot or a sociopath.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Difference is that the individual doesn't intend harm on other people; example 1 is someone with an actual agenda because they hate jews or other forms of minorities and want to see the world burn, and example 2 is someone who doesn't realize it's going to create more hate but their agenda was not that.
And yet PDP CHOOSES NOT TO CHANGE! If his agenda is different and he is actually concerned about his image or being and doing better he should have long ago learned to not fucking continue to spread the shit that sides him with bigots. Growing isn't out of his hands. He's an adult and can choose to make better decisions but doesn't. What exactly do you think that says?
 

mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,879
PDP is a piece of shit and all those YT personalities that give him words of support are dipshits too. They can all go fuck themselves.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
And of course this is all anyone is talking about over here regarding the incident. Screw pewdiepie, screw Pachter, this isn't truly important. The shooter himself wanted as many people as possible to discuss the incident and himself, and what better way than to bring up names and phrases that you know will generate attention?

You want to look into the cesspool that makes things like this possible? Take a look at 4ch, or 8ch where you have 10s of people quite literally applauding this piece of trash. That's what feeds these people.

I do think PDP needs to take a deep hard look at who he features on his videos though. It's time (past time really) to curate this crap.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,942
Pewdiepie is an evil genius mastermind that has somehow tricked his followers into thinking he is a naive kidult who just doesn't know any better, yet he knows exactly what he's doing. Amazing