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PewDiePie attempts to distance himself from Christchurch Mosque shooter who pledged support (READ THREADMARKS)
- Thread starter Sinder
- Start date
In this case stupid memes.The guy had mental problems no doubt.
Memes are cancer, they "joke" with everything even this type of situations, maybe he wanted to be a meme? I don't know, but there's something here about wanting fame, and the fucking subscribe is one of them
No. You don't get to pin this on "mental problems". Society has an incredibly real issue in regards to white supremacy and Islamophobia and what the shooter did is a natural extension of that. We don't get to bury our heads in the sand and pretend otherwise.
As he lives in the UK, report him to the police for hate crimes. Our police tend to arrest people for doing that on social media such as this:
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-16...omments-supporting-new-zealand-mosque-attack/
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I like how very serious mental illnesses are used to sweep under the rug problematic aspect of our society, I by like I mean I hate it with a burning passion.
Yeah. He isn't responsible for the shooting. He is responsible for creating a popular platform that makes it socially acceptable to hate and find more virulent hatemongers who don't speak with the same filter he does once you've been indoctrinated enough.
I am sure that, deep down, every murderer has some kind of mental issues, i believe that every nazi does, but that will never be a sufficient excuse of any violent crime and certainly not for the killer mentioning PDP while he was on his act.
It will not be a sufficient excuse for PDP too , a person that irresponsibly fosters people with that sort of "mental issues" as a part of his audience and occasionally caters to them. And this is where the line should have been drawn.
Thus he became a senseless murderer's hero.
Well you are not a top tier memer, are you?! It's just memes bro. Who cares about the repercussions /s
For those who try the old 'they just had mental health issues' excuse, why doesn't everyone with mental health issues go on killing sprees against specific groups?
The reason is, these killers found people and platforms that fed into their delusions and hate and gave them the confidence to embrace it.
That's why people blame PDP et al, because they foster an environment where people feel comfortable in those beliefs and some eventually act on them.
If you genuinely can't understand this very simple example of cause and effect then you need to do some serious research and start thinking critically otherwise you are being willfully ignorant and are basically a piece of shit for trying to argue otherwise.
The reason is, these killers found people and platforms that fed into their delusions and hate and gave them the confidence to embrace it.
That's why people blame PDP et al, because they foster an environment where people feel comfortable in those beliefs and some eventually act on them.
If you genuinely can't understand this very simple example of cause and effect then you need to do some serious research and start thinking critically otherwise you are being willfully ignorant and are basically a piece of shit for trying to argue otherwise.
So you are agreeing PDP should clearly rethink what he's posting to his millions of followers because he's radicalizing such people?
The guy was a normal dude until was radicalized by the alt-right online culture machinary, which PDP belongs to.
Oh yes, I have seen some twitters here and are disgusting. He is part of the problem but I think it should be done more in a global scale, radicalization should be something everyone needs to address right now.
Gaming, politics, memes... etc.
Edit: Can't quote everything, but yeah, anyway, what should be done about this is the question.
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Are you calling on people from the UK en masse to report PDP for hate crime?
I find PDP ideologically repulsive. Getting less privileged people to hold up placards with anti-Semitic messages just beggars belief. The man is gross.
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wollywinka Do you have something to add or are you just going to quote someone who literally ate a ban for what they wrote?
Edit: I'm now even more confused by your actual post.
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What I find most depressing about the PDP is that his brand is nowhere near as toxic as it rightfully should be. It's a sad indictment of the the world we live in.
Hahah. If AIs were able to tell sarcasm from genuine statements, I'd also be in favor of autobanning users who posted "I'm not racist, but...". Or, in this case, "I don't follow / really like PewDiePie, but...".
He lives here? What the heck? I don't think we can exactly call the police on him unless there's actual proof he encouraged acts like the shooting or defacing memorials, but we can certainly do something. I could certainly back a hefty fine if he doesn't post a video not only denouncing but also discouraging this sort of thing. He has a responsibility as a public figure with millions of impressionable fans the world over to draw a line between what is and what isn't acceptable.
The "It's just memes" was and always will be just a nice front for actual nazis to hide behind. ANd it clearly works. They get to preted they aren't really serious and still spread their hatred and bigotry unchallenged. The nazis learned from decades of being straight up direct with the messaging, that it did not work. They now found a nice way to do it and reach a much bigger willing audience. ANd yes, I think PDP is one too.
That was a mistake. User malfunction. Lol. I didn't wish to reiterate what I quoted, quite the opposite :)
My understanding of UK law is limited, despite living here almost all my life, but I'm really not sure you can get fined for refusing to denounce something, even if you're a public figure.
I'm sure they could think of something. Governments can be awfully clever when it comes to making up ways to fine people.
I really, really don't think I want the government to try and invent new ways to punish people for NOT saying things. That's absolutely not a government that I want to live under. Hate speech is hate speech, and should be dealt with accordingly, but you've kind of lost me at "we need to see if we can get the UK government to find any way, even if its not currently doable, to fine PDP for NOT doing certain things."
You're right. It would have to be 'active' hate speech, like calling someone a fucking n***** while playing PUBG, for instance. I think the relevant statute is The Race Relations Act 1976. That said, the location of the relevant servers would probably come into play.
If you want to argue that he's not a racist, read the threadmarks first, acknowledge the facts and behaviours there, and then argue accordingly, which means providing valid justifications for how a person can engage in all of that behaviour (all of it, not just making vague sweeping statements like "he didn't know any better"), and still not actually be a racist. Otherwise you're willingly ignoring and downplaying racist behaviour, which is against the rules. It's not exactly rocket science.
But they're not asking the government to fine him for not saying things? They're asking the government to fine him for doing stuff like, I don't know, paying people to hold a sign saying "Kill all Jews" and then broadcasting it to millions of people while he laughs.
Might want to re-read the part where they said "I could certainly back a hefty fine if he doesn't post a video not only denouncing but also discouraging this sort of thing.", which is also what i was responding to. Hefty fine. If he doesn't.
When you're talking about NOT denouncing and discouraging mass shootings, I think some exceptions have to be considered. It's not just about punishing hate speech but punishing those who are an accessory to it or an enabler of it, especially high profile individuals who consider themselves to be "influencers". That's what we call them these days, right?
Yeah, let's ignore the part where he's engaged in hate speech or where he was directly endorsed by the terrorist. I'm sure they were suggesting everyone with over 1m subscribers should be fined if they don't condemn the shooting, entirely unconnected to these two tiny unrelated facts.
Again, I just don't think the law in the UK is set up for this kind of thing, and arguably, with good reason. At this point you'd kind of end up "punishing" anyone who, it could be argued, feeds into this toxic culture. If you're of the opinion that anyone who is right-of-center feeds into this culture, then calling upon the UK's Conservative government is, well, you can see why it wouldn't work. As much as I hate little twats like Tommy Robinson, I'm not sure we can fine him or arrest him for not denouncing the shit he spews.
I think it was clear they were suggesting exactly what the said, which is that PewDiePie could be fined by the UK government for NOT making a video denouncing the attack (Edit: or rather denouncing the online culture he plays into, more accurately). Sorry, I just don't think that's possible in the law.
Wait, you seriously want the UK government - the current sorry, broken, pathetic, austerity-worshipping stain of a government - to implement laws that punish people for not saying something?
Please think that through, because it is a stunningly awful idea even for the best of governments, never mind for a government as malevolently incompetent as the current one.
Pewdiepie should feel ethically and morally obliged to repudiate not just the shooter but the entire alt-right network that Pewdiepie has enabled and has made accessible to far too many people. However, the idea of legally forcing him to do this is a terrible idea without the slightest of thought put into it.
You say he should, but he doesn't. He never will. Why should he? Nobody is forcing him to. Fifty people were murdered by his fans, remember. Fifty. Not just men or women but children too. Innocent people who were just attending a religious service. All because of a movement he is quite literally a ringleader of.
Yet you don't want him to denounce that publicly? He isn't going to do it out of the goodness of his heart. So you make him do it by threatening the thing he cares about most, his bank balance. You make him take a stance on this rather than allow him to wash his hands of it and pretend it has nothing to do with him. If there's even an ounce of compassion inside him, he wouldn't even need to be fined.
It's all well and good saying what he should do, but if someone is unwilling to do something they should and people's lives are at stake? That's when you force their hand.
We're getting OT so this will be my last response to this particular conversation (as theres a hell of a lot of conversation to be had here, specifically), but I really don't think you want this long term. I don't think you truly want a government that has a legal right to do this. In your head right now it may seem like its a legal responsibility to prevent more lives from being lost, but that's not really it in the grand scheme of things. Probably a very good topic for a proper discussion on an etcetera thread.
That's correct.
His failure as a human being is another stain on his already filthy reputation.
However, you cannot fix that with legal instrumentation.
I really would prefer if there were some subtle, elegant way of saying this, but there isn't: fuck off with this shit. Do you think I'm unaware that fifty people are dead? Do you think I need bolded, italicised text to remind me of the biggest news story in the world today? Do you think I'm not outraged? Do you think I don't want action?
Seriously. Fuck right the whole fucking way off with this.
I do. I said I do. You read me saying that. It's in my post.
What I don't want is the UK government being able to legally force people to do or say things that they don't believe in, because firstly any action taken under that kind of legal duress means nothing at all, and secondly, even if it started with Pewdiepie, it wouldn't end there. It would end with people being forced to apologise for left-wing progressive beliefs and denounce their friends under pain of imprisonment.
OK, so you want the UK government to be able to force people to do anything. What's your plan for five seconds after Pewdiepie fake-apologises because he legally has to, and goes back to acting in exactly the same way as before and literally nobody in the world thinks he was sincere?
What have you achieved, other than given a right-wing government the most powerful thought-control law in Europe?
So you don't think he's a bigot, he's just profiting from bigotry. That's a distinction without a difference.
Society will suicide itself by allowing hate and the promotion of destructive and negative ideas under the guise of free speech as determined by algorithms created by idiotic libertarians that don't understand the responsibility of the choices they make.
Deleting this jackface and all his peers from the internet should take priority of a global initiative instead of worrying about IP, copyright and other bullshit. Google, Facebook, Twitter, et al are complicit in this garbage. If the guns manufacturer can be sued maybe these platforms holders should be extended the same treatment.
Deleting this jackface and all his peers from the internet should take priority of a global initiative instead of worrying about IP, copyright and other bullshit. Google, Facebook, Twitter, et al are complicit in this garbage. If the guns manufacturer can be sued maybe these platforms holders should be extended the same treatment.
So then we do nothing? We just let it continue? We don't hold him accountable and because neither he nor his fans will hold him accountable, that's the end of it? He never openly denounces these behaviours because he doesn't need to and doesn't want to either, because that would imply some degree of responsibility or influence he doesn't want to admit he has. So then nothing changes. Folks will just continue to rally around him, become influenced by him and his fans, and it'll continue to get worse.
How is it people are crying out for something to be done about 8chan for being a breeding ground for this stuff, yet the minute you point at a young white man for doing the exact same thing suddenly they become sheepish?
I'm not saying we do nothing. I'm saying we don't follow your ridiculous idea of handing power to right wing governments to dictate how people should feel and act.
I suggest that you take a few moments to critically examine your reaction here. Your first instinct is to do something, which is understandable, but the thing you're proposing is a massive handover of legal power - easily the biggest in Western Europe for a generation - and not only would it not achieve anything in this specific case (would you believe a forced apology? I assume no?), it'd also be turned against the left within months or weeks or days. After getting told that, your subsequent reaction was to act like I needed to be informed of basic facts.
Being angry is understandable. Proposing laws in that state isn't, and acting like an asshole to people pointing out the flaws in your thinking doesn't get us anywhere.
I'm not acting like an arsehole to anyone. The only aggressive tone here is yours and I'm sorry if your distrust of the government extends so far that you're opposed even to them having the power to fine influential people for misusing that influence, but it also sounds like you have no ideas of your own to combat this and are just sliding down a slippery slope so... there's nothing more to discuss.
Just a few posts ago you were so disrespectful that you thought I needed to be reminded, in bold and italics, that people had died.
If you genuinely can't see how that makes you look to me, what message it sent to me, then I'm lost for words.
I've literally just said that proposing ideas while angry is not going to result in good ideas. It results in nonsense like your idea to let governments dictate your feelings to you. That's not a good idea and the absence of other ideas doesn't make it a better idea.
What we need is a strong enforcement of comprehensive hate speech laws starting with fines and going all the way up to prison time for repeat serious offenders, and also a very strong beatdown on social media platform holders making them criminally and finantially accountable for what they allow and promote on their platforms. The latter is paramount, these corporations have been abusing and profiting from this legal wild west for far too long.
Sorry, you're right, I did have my timeline confused. It's just baffling because Disney dropping him is like the clearest possible repudiation of what he was supposed to be after, by your account. If that didn't prompt him to reconsider what he's doing, then he's shown himself to be essentially incapable of holding himself accountable for anything, which should make him unfit to have his platform. At best he's pre-ethical, or basically a child, and I don't know what to do to straighten out a child but to continue to scold and punish them when they continue to show a pattern of problematic behaviour.
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