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Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
Update:

Video of the PAX demo (starts 1 hour in).



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I was surprised that Phantom Brigade didn't get much coverage from its presence at PAX East last month. It was one of the highlights of the show for me so I might as well gush (ramble) about it here. Unfortunately there isn't any gameplay footage of the demo for public display so bear with me here as I try to explain it with my notes and a whiteboard I have lying around. There's a lot to unpack here and I've got an hour to kill before I can take some cold medication and go to bed.

As a brief refresher on the game: Phantom Brigade was announced a couple years ago as a turn based strategy game that featured customizable mechs and a high level of destruction (for units and the environments you battled them in). The game got a good number of development updates over the years but went dark a little while ago as the company making the game, Tetragon Works merged with the Crypt of the Necrodancer developer, Brace Yourself Games. The team from Tetragon Works went on to help out on BYG's city builder, Industries of Titan so Phantom Brigade took a backseat for a bit.

Apparently during beta testing Phantom Brigade there was feedback about the overall speed of things so the team went on to tear it apart and rebuild it with real-time elements back in February. The PAX demo was focused on getting the essentials up and running so it didn't feature all the elements seen in earlier videos (things like fiery ashes raining down from the sky as battlefield conditions worsened) and the presentation might have been a bit spotty at times but it did a great job selling the new combat.

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Taken from a turn-based build of the game. The perspective and look is pretty much the same aside from UI differences.

The demo kicks off simply enough. You're on a training mission testing new predictive technology and moving around the map. Featuring a view that's similar to previous gameplay shown from the game, all you have to is select the tutorial waypoints and then the "end command". The predictive element is then introduced with a simple UI pop up that looks like a video timeline you'd see in a multimedia editor.

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Now when you select your move order a bar appears and stretches out as you move further and further from your character's position with the mouse. This reflects the time that it will take for the movement to occur (I think the window was 5 seconds) and now once you confirm the order the mech will move and as that happens the "5" next to the timeline will start counting down and the movement bar will start shifting off-screen to the left.

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You do another turn or two of that before a tank appears that you are told to destroy. This is where things start to come together. You select your movement order as before, but now as you scroll though the timeline (moving the mouse left and right) you see the tank roll across its own movement line along with showing a direction that it intends to fire towards. Now, with the attack command, you can drop a new item on the timeline. A couple second long "track" that represents your mech attacking. Once confirming the time you want the attack to happen, you select the direction/target and let it run.

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Now when the timer runs down your mech will start attacking when the attack "track" hits the left hand side of the timeline even if you are moving at the time. At the end of destroying the tank you're brought into a nice in-game cutscene that transitions you to a another part of the battlefield where the actual fight for the demo starts.

You're now thrown against a handful of tanks and a single enemy mech (think they're called Walkers) and it's a doozy of a fight. You have two Walkers of your own to fight them off and apparently it was rare for the demo to end in victory. So the odds are pretty stacked against you. It was in this bigger battle that you could now set your own commands in the timeline and not being directed by the tutorial.

This took me a bit to grasp but you aren't limited by actions in the game, it's really just time. Say you wanted a move a Walker to a close position (1 second or so) while immediately firing your shotgun at a close tank. That still leaves more time on the board so go ahead and make another short movement order and start firing off another set of rounds. Anything that doesn't complete in the 5 second window (starting an attack that doesn't have time to finish) will just carry over to the next "turn".

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So once things get going it's a lot to keep track of but it can lead to more creative actions occurring in a single turn. For example when one of my Walkers lost the ability to attack (mechs are modular and can have limbs blown off) the lead on the game suggested I ram into a tank (overtaking it from behind) while also ordering my pilot to eject. The idea being that the pilot would eject and the forward momentum of the walk would still carry the discarded mech into the tank,. In practice I misjudged the timing and ejected too early (not enough momentum to carry me forward) but the idea was tantalizing.

The fight went on from there with me trying to dart my other Walker between houses for cover (the maps still keep a lot of destructibility, your weapons can chew through those structures) but I ended up making my unit collide with a tank from the side which sent them tripping into some trees. I got lucky with the AI going after the ejected Walker but I ended up timing out and having the demo end before I could turn things around in my favor, if that was even possible.

Note: These things were talked about in dev videos for the game before the switch to the current battle system, so they may not exist in the same form (perhaps even changed entirely) but there's more to the game than just combat. Like I mentioned your mechs are all modular so limbs/weapons can be blown off which will play into the management/customization aspect of the game (recovering/repairing parts) that has a real great looking setup.




There was also talk in those dev updates about something more akin to a "Nemesis System" where enemy combatants, provided they eject and aren't killed in battle, would grow in strength as they fight you, but I didn't think to ask if that feature was still in the game during the demo so TBA on that. As for platforms Phantom Brigade was announced as a PC and console title and, while the UI seems especially suited to a mouse now, that still is the plan apparently but specific consoles are TBA.

All in all it was a riot of a demo. Being able to pack more than one set of instructions into a "turn" really opened my eyes to the depth this system could have. Mix that in with the existing gameplay structure shown in earlier videos and I'm more excited than ever to see more of the game. I really think this could be something special.


Old dev videos in a playlist.


 
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I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,546
I think I heard Austin Walker talking about it a bit and it sounds cool. Any reason why they haven't put gameplay out yet even though they're doing floor demos at PAX? Doesn't seem to be helping get the word out.
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
I think I heard Austin Walker talking about it a bit and it sounds cool. Any reason why they haven't put gameplay out yet even though they're doing floor demos at PAX? Doesn't seem to be helping get the word out.

The demo was coming in really hot so I imagine they want to polish the presentation more before putting out footage in an official capacity.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,426
Unfortunately that sounds closer to Frozen Synapse, which I'm not a fan of >.<
 

HellBlazer

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,031
Sounds like an interesting system, though I'd have to see it in motion to completely wrap my mind around it.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
This is eerily close to a tabletop system I made up, so this is very easy for me to grasp.
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
Unfortunately that sounds closer to Frozen Synapse, which I'm not a fan of >.<

It's been a long while since I played Frozen Synapse but, thanks to seeing where enemies are going to move in a turn, I found Phantom Brigade to be a lot more enjoyable. You don't have to run multiple simulations based on guesses on what other characters will do, you're shown where they are going and who they are shooting right out of the gate. The Walkers aren't nearly as fragile as humans in Frozen Synapse either so you're given a bit more leeway in your moves for experimentation.

It's also a lot more visually interesting: pieces of Walkers will be blown off, missed shots will tear up buildings, characters will pivot and slide to make shots as they move.
 
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Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,496
Wow, this looks really cool. I remember seeing it before and thinking it was a looker, but this whole timeline thing could be a real gamechanger.

Or a fiddly disaster. One of those two. But I've got my eye on it for sure now.
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,490
New York
Still really interested in this. The slowness of TB games has always bugged me, which is one of many reason I prefer RTwP, but if this works that's going to be awesome. I need more mech goodness in my life.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,406
i was hoping this would be like battletech, but it sounds more like frozen synapse which i just can't get into.

the world needs more turn-based mech games, in any case. ill keep my eye on it
 

Runner

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,722
I played the demo.. it's a damn good game.

But really it was rare to end in victory? I actually took out every enemy target and had to wait for the demo timer to count down since they didnt program in A different win condition. It wasnt that hard if you let shieldey take the hits for fast dude and zip in and out of cover.

I really liked how the enemy prediction system always told you exactly what was going to happen.. the ai didnt cheat and retarget if they weren't targeting that area already.

Out of the mech games I played at the show it was my favorite.. second was probably Panzer Paladin (blaster master meets castlevanis with mechs)
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
A lot is needed apparently. Woolie asked them when they expected it to be out and they said 2020 at the earliest.

That's about what I'm expecting. Talking to devs at the show the main reason the game was even at PAX in the first place was the booth space and materials were locked-in months in advance.

i was hoping this would be like battletech, but it sounds more like frozen synapse which i just can't get into.

the world needs more turn-based mech games, in any case. ill keep my eye on it

I mentioned this in another reply but there's a notable difference between Phantom Brigade and Frozen Synapse. The latter never clicked with me for the hour or so I played of it, but Phantom Brigade got me hooked with this ~20 minute demo.

But really it was rare to end in victory?

Maybe they were just taking pity on me by saying that!
 

Runner

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,722
[QUOTE="Dancrane212"
Maybe they were just taking pity on me by saying that![/QUOTE]
I think the person behind me did actually lose (heard the convo like "nothing to do now but wait for the end" and "I'm going to come back and try again")
Most people I saw ran out of time though.

Of course apparently mistover was hard but I got all three swag coupons dispite having a generated map and running out of food at the end. Maybe I'm just better at these games than I thought
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
Of course apparently mistover was hard but I got all three swag coupons dispite having a generated map and running out of food at the end. Maybe I'm just better at these games than I thought

I still need to write-up something for that. The demo for that game was an oddly surreal experience of balancing in-game decisions with real world rewards. I don't usually go all in for show swag but in that case I hunted down all the tickets just to "win".
 

Runner

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,722
I still need to write-up something for that. The demo for that game was an oddly surreal experience of balancing in-game decisions with real world rewards. I don't usually go all in for show swag but in that case I hunted down all the tickets just to "win".
For me the decision was made for me in that I found three chests right off the bat then the keys but no exit until I was half starved to death running away from mobs:]
 

Deleted member 2625

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Oct 25, 2017
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yeah this stuck out to me at Pax as well. I hadn't heard anything about it.

their city builder game looked pretty cool as well.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
It's been a long while since I played Frozen Synapse but, thanks to seeing where enemies are going to move in a turn, I found Phantom Brigade to be a lot more enjoyable. You don't have to run multiple simulations based on guesses on what other characters will do, you're shown where they are going and who they are shooting right out of the gate. The Walkers aren't nearly as fragile as humans in Frozen Synapse either so you're given a bit more leeway in your moves for experimentation.

It's also a lot more visually interesting: pieces of Walkers will be blown off, missed shots will tear up buildings, characters will pivot and slide to make shots as the move.

Reading your post, I'd love to see a more advanced movement system in a TBS game - think of a squad tactical game where your units can do slides(perhaps while firing) and wall jumps and that sort of thing. It's not something thats ever translated very well unfortunately.
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

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Oct 25, 2017
13,962
Reading your post, I'd love to see a more advanced movement system in a TBS game - think of a squad tactical game where your units can do slides(perhaps while firing) and wall jumps and that sort of thing. It's not something thats ever translated very well unfortunately.

I imagine it'd be pretty hard to pull off but that would be interesting, yeah. It does sound like there are some big plans for the contextual animations in Phantom Brigade though it's just a cosmetic effect. Just having the Walker do that pivot/slide to attack was great, so I'm looking forward to seeing what those animations will look like with more time and polish.
 
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Deleted member 8561

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Oct 26, 2017
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Phantom Brigade was one of the top things I saw at PAX. Talked to one of the guys, which I assume was a developer, asked him a bunch of questions and such, and basically gave me a breakdown similar to how the OP describes the system.

Can't wait to get my hands on the combat system, it's what sold me on the game.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,496
That demo was extremely impressive. I'm sold on this, 100%.

Industries of Titan looks too fiddly for me, though, which is a shame.
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
Game will be playable at Bitsummit on June 1st. Hopefully we'll get some footage from the show.

 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,406
Now I'm really curious how Phantom Brigade will compare to John Wick Hex, since the latter was revealed after this thread. They both have a (seemingly) similar pitch of 'cinematic action', with a Frozen Synapse-inspired combat system.
 

Shinjica

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
262
Honestly, i'm pretty disappointed, i expected being like Front Mission instead of Frozen Synapse