Times have changed and the dam has broken. I don't think I've said such a thing isn't happening for years now.
And consolidation will in fact lead to layoffs.
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- Thread starter digitalrelic
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And consolidation will in fact lead to layoffs.
Maybe not immediately, but I will be surprised if there aren't at least some layoffs in the medium to long term. Right now they aren't really touching Zenimax/Bethesda, because there's just too much there to try and absorb into XGS proper. But I'll be surprised if they retain Zenimax's publishing division long-term, for one.
For now at least. It would be naive to think there wont be some "redundancies" cleaned up in the future.
Still going on I see lol
Thats why I don't like the argument that anyone is having these games taken from them. When this deal was announced there where no PS5 gamers yet. And I'm guessing most people who have a PS5 so far are more likely to be enthusiasts which should mean they where aware of this; they should have known what they were getting into.
I mean we saw four Publisher acquisitions last year, between Zenimax/Bethesda, Codemasters, Gearbox and Leyou. Did any of them lead to any layoffs?
Admittedly, if/when the browser-based version of streaming launches, I think this will be a stronger point. The extra effort for setting up comfortably on a phone/tablet isn't negligible.
Google shut down their first party operation completely and it did not lead to layoffs. I am sure they will find these people other assignments if they need to.
They'll stream it through xcloud on their roku or LG TV or whatever.
His matters less than most people think because buying a console just to play a few games Is going away - you'll have access to all of Microsoft's exclusives on a toaster I'm a few years.
Codemasters closed less than a month ago, and Zeni days ago. Gearbox also just closed, and they had an incredibly modest publishing operation. This stuff takes time, like I said, years.
Tencent also operates a bit differently than other organizations, and they didn't have the kind of redundancy for this deal that other publishers would have.
Whether they retain the Zenimax brand long term is certainly in question, but I don't think there's going to be any layoffs stemming from the acquisition itself. I won't say there won't be any layoffs experienced by Zenimax ever, since that's a natural part of the industry, but I think in terms of staffing - Zenimax as a whole will grow under Microsoft as all acquisitions thus far have.
It makes total sense to maintain the Publishing workforce of Zenimax too, since 8 new studios and 2300+ new employees would naturally take a scaling in your Publishing arm to work around in the first place.
Hell, you could argue that Bethesda would have experienced layoffs had an acquisition not occurred due to the string of titles that were fiscally disappointing outside of Doom Eternal over the last few years. That's probably why they took an up front timed exclusivity deal with Sony for Deathloop and Ghostwire: Tokyo.
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No - Google issued the increasingly boilerplate statement about trying to "find other roles" for the developers affected. That doesn't mean no layoffs in the end, and it also doesn't mean that a bunch of game developers are even equipped to go work on Google Docs or something (or that they want to).
It's a convenient statement to make in the immediate wake when people are asking about job losses, because it could technically be true. But I'll bet you $5 a bunch of those devs are already no longer working for Google.
True. Still, Xbox is without a doubt offering the most venues for playing their games between consoles, PCs and streaming.
If I wanted to access Sony's library, I'd need to buy their console. Same with Nintendo. With Xbox, I can dip my toes in the water without any crazy commitments (streaming), give it a try if I have a somewhat decent PC, buy a very affordable next gen console (XSS), or get the real deal (XSX or a gaming rig).
They said they'd attempt to find the devs from Stadia positions elsewhere in the company. More recent reports have indicated they've struggled to make that happen, because game dev and web dev as it happens elsewhere at Google are very different skillsets and there's not a lot of crossover between them (which, as a dev myself, does not surprise me in the least).
I'd expect to see a lot of people laid off over the next few months when their skills prove to be a bad fit for some random opening in an unrelated field they got unceremoniously shoved into.
With Zennimax I'm sure there'll be some layoffs over time. There's little value in having parallel HR infrastructures and so on.
Unfortunately, the amount of people XGS publishing would need to support additional studios is not nearly equal the the amount of people needed to operate the publishing arm of an entirely different and independent company. Plus the roles you would need to fill are not one to one, you need more lower rank employees to support more studios, not more seasoned and expensive professionals.
At this point I'm expecting console war arguments to erupt in retirement homes when the Elder Scrolls XVI trailer is released.
I'll, say it again. If you're exceptionally sad or happy about this maybe go outside for a walk or something.
That's one aspect of this that I think is a little funny, in that people are reacting to the immediate news/confirmation, but I'm assuming 90% of these games are still years down the road.
Because they were desperate with brand loyalty
they cling to words like "some" and "legacy" for hope
Truth is they should just embrace competition. Nobody is hoping Microsoft puts Sony out of business. People who are invested in game pass are seeing their investment get better.
A world where XBOX and PS5 are viable choices to game is best. Hell I'd prefer it to be a situation where both are very good choices instead only one. Throw out the brand loyalty.
Not necessarily, and less likely than the course Zenimax was. MS is a large company, and is not in the business of laying off their developers and staff generally. Even when they restructure large portions of their business, like Skype, they end up retaining or refocusing staff. If anything, they should lay off more to keep a high bar instead of being riddled with lifers - but I don't think "it takes time" is a very convincing comment since it's unbounded.
I'd also say that companies like Capcom and Sammy are marginal right now and could benefit from a larger financial backing that companies like MS/Tencent/Sony could provide. I'd think in their cases it likely would be a net positive for the IPs they own and the certainty of employment.
How expansive is XGS publishing though? Until recently (mid to late 2018 onward), they went through quite a long period where the division as a whole was operating under a shoestring budget. They had a pretty small first party arm and Xbox Game Studios Publishing wasn't the most active entity in existence given the number of non-internally developed titles they released over the generation. It could be a situation where they fit together like puzzle pieces due to the timing. Purely theoretical, but if Microsoft was acquire someone like Capcom or Sega, I guarantee they keep that Publishing arm 100% intact as well - given that their presence within the region is pretty lackluster in its current form.
1 - 2 years probably, but that far out if rumors or to be believed.
Heading into 10 years as a developer for Lockheed. Anything can lead to layoffs, and I've seen this at my time in the company. It's an odd thing to single out consolidation. Experience talking here again since Lockheed's most recent acquisition was Sikorsky.
What would be the downside of Sony agreeing to let Gamepass on their system? It's obvious Phil Spencer wants this and is willing to make it work.
What are the cons for Sony?
What are the cons for Sony?
I know right? I don't think some people get how ridiculous they sound.
less games sold on their platform -> less money for Sony, fairly simple
So the concern is people spending most of their time on Gamepass and not buying anything else from the PlayStation store?
I hardly think that's likely - the library is so diverse. You're not getting direct competitors to Sony franchises on Gamepass, which is a service I imagine Sony would want a cut off anyway in terms of PlayStation userbase.
As a PS5 owner and soon to be SeriesX owner, as well as a current Gamepass ultimate user on PC, my little brother and I will save lots of money playing all these new Bethesda games on Gamepass with game sharing between us. I'm certainly glad I don't have to buy them on PS5 now for $60-$70 each.
Any game someone plays on Game Pass instead of buying from PSN means Sony doesn't get that 30% cut for that game. I'm only talking about 3rd party stuff that would be for sale outside of Game Pass.
sony franchises dont make their big money, 3rd party sales do
It's kind of a weird thing to gauge too. Even IF layoffs were to occur due to redundancies within the entity being acquired, is it still arguably a net positive for the industry? Thus far, every studio Microsoft has acquired recently has experienced considerable growth since the acquisition. Either in the form of bolstering the existing workforce of the studio, or outright creating new teams/divisions within them. I don't think Zenimax will be insulated from that phenomenon. Microsoft's acquisition of these studios are literally creating hundreds of positions that otherwise would not have existed had these studios staid independent and grown organically. That has to be a net positive on the industry. Can't say whether that'll be the case with other businesses acquisition targets, but I imagine that's not unique to Microsoft - at least in the short term?
Let's be real here, guys. People addicted to Cod/FIFA are not dropping these 3rd party games to play Gamepass. The publishers aren't threatened by it, and neither should Sony Studios.
Sony getting 30% of Gamepass subscriptions from their platforms is a new income stream, so the money explanation isn't convincing.
Yeah, I don't think MS see Nintendo as a competitor, in a sense they're going after different things and can easily co-exist. But it's most up to Nintendo, they seem to be more open then in the past, so who knows. It's certainly a strong possibility.
Would be cool to put Perfect Dark on Switch Next.
There might be layoffs, so what? All others studios bought by MS are expanding and hiring more people, Bethesda will be the same. Some people may lose their jobs in the short term, but in the long term more will get employed. It's almost like concern trolling at this stage, using layoffs to spin this acquisition.
I'd love to see a move where Rare (and Rare-adjacent) digital titles get frequent Switch releases.
The only people seeing this acquisition as a negative are..
1) People who have a personal gripe with MS.
2) People who don't know how corporate business works.
3) People who think the gaming industry should remain unchanged as the digital world continues to change around it.
4) People who don't know how corporate business works.
5) People who don't know how corporate business works.
If Zenimax was shopping itself around to be bought, then you've got to be led to believe that there were some financial issues going on. People fear consolidation, but what happens if Zenimax doesn't get bought? Could go both ways in terms of recovering from whatever troubles there might be, to include massive layoffs to keep the company afloat. Acquisitions can save companies, as well as the jobs that go with them. Can layoffs happen afterwards? Absolutely. You do what needs to be done in order to mold that acquired company into your vision, but that also creates new jobs as you say. This acquisition was bad for the fanboys, but great for the companies involved.
There absolutely will be lay offs on the administrtive side like HR and Finance. Marketing might take a hit too.
Yeah, if people want to be concerned about layoffs I'd focus my anger at the systems that fail to support the laid off, personally.
I've been laid off before. You acquire a company, there's layoffs. You don't acquire a company and as a result a competitor has a better quarter than you, there's layoffs. You turn a profit but the CEO needs to juice the quarterly to hit a performance milestone and get a bonus, there's layoffs.
The system is ridiculous but layoffs don't start or end with MS buying a company.
30% of a relatively cheap subscription fee that encompasses many games is much different than 30% for each individual game sale. Only way it would make sense for Sony is if the sub only included XGS/Bethedsa games, which wouldn't cut the legs out from Sony's platform fees. I'm not sure Microsoft would even want to do that. I could be wrong, but I just don't see Game Pass ever being on Playstation, it just seems too hard to make it work for everyone. More likely would be Sony being pushed to make their own Game Pass variant (like a much more competitive PS Now or something new).
Starefield and Wolf 3 are either this year or next. ES6 and Fallout 5 are probably late, if at all, this gen. For the next Doom and others I'm unsure.
Layoffs are not good. Overall, I think these acquisitions by Xbox will result in growth, rather than shrinkage.
Microsoft's plan with GamePass is to grow the AAA gaming industry from roughly ~350-400 million people to 3 billion gamers. We are talking about market growth of 10x. Subscriptions services make the risk of game development so much lower. I expect a ton of investment in the game development in the next decade. The publishers that we consider "big" today, could be 10x their size in the future. And I think Microsoft is just ahead of the game.
I am confused why posters don't seem to consider the fact that Microsoft has openly discussed their ambition to grow the market to 3 billion gamers. Maybe they don't need the production staff of Bethesda to launch games to the ~100 million gamers on Xbox today across console and PC, but their ambitions are to reach an audience 30x that.
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It's...not? One of the main economic arguments for consolidation is reducing total operating expenditures in redundant areas by workforce reduction.
You need less people to operate a marketing team that covers operations for 20 games a year than two marketing teams each covering 10 do.
Well at least you're honest.
I'm out, this is gross.