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Nov 11, 2017
2,744
I think this quote deserves it's on thread, as a consumer I agree it's not my job to worry about how much money ms is making or losing from gamepass or consoles due to pc. All I care about is the products at the end of the day .

www.eurogamer.net

The big XO19 interview: Xbox boss Phil Spencer on Game Pass, streaming and Project Scarlett

At Microsoft's big XO19 event in London yesterday, Xbox boss Phil Spencer told the gathered press all about Game Pass, …

Gamers in general, there is sometimes a tendency that the more walls we put up around things, the more valuable it is. But if we're focused on growing the games industry, we should not be less accessible. We should be more accessible. We had this argument for years over cross-play. Should we allow people to play across different platforms? Or does that somehow diminish the value of an individual platform?

The thing at the highest level, which will probably get me in trouble, is as gamers you should focus on what you want, not focus on, like, my P&L [profit and loss statement], or the P&L of the console you chose to invest in. I see this dialogue about somebody worried that somehow Xbox is gonna make less money, or their console is gonna make less money if they tell me a game is going to be on a different platform before it actually comes out, or it's gonna be in a subscription, which is really what I want, but somehow that's gonna mean less money for them so I don't want them to do that because I'd rather pay more money so...

You should focus on you as a gamer and the things that matter to you. We as the people running the business - I am incented to run a good business inside of Microsoft and in the long term. I've been here for 31 years. I don't know that I'll make 31 more, but I'm not going anywhere tomorrow. We're building an Xbox business for the long run. I'll tell you, Game Pass today is a strong part of that, and it continues to get stronger, and it supports the building of great IP.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,482
Austin
He basically said stop shopping with his wallet. Ok baller.

For real though these guys and their competitors usually know what they're doing, or least should if they hire the right teams of people to plan this stuff out. The same people who say things like games are being devalued are the ones who wont buy a game on day 1 at full price or will take advantage of deals all of the time.

Just buy games your way, have fun playing them, and let the trillion and billion dollar companies worry about making money.
 

KoolAid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,675
Yeah, specially considering Gamepass pays developers in bulk for their games. Xbox belongs to a multimillionaire company, does it matter that much if they lose money?
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,888
He also mentions that gamepass is already making money and they are using it to invest more in their first party
 

Deleted member 4552

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,570
I care about the product.

Gamepass might influence development in ways don't like.

Tacked on multiplayer, "live services", superfluous seasons.
The decline of certain genres.

It's happened many times in the past.

It could alternatively lead to positives, revive genres etc.

I'm not a consumer, I'm a hobbyist.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
Yeah I think that about sums up my opinion on GP. MS will be putting Ori 2 on there day 1 and Sega will be putting Yakuza 0 on there as well and that's where I'll play those games. If that a bad thing for MS/Sega's finances then that's their... self-inflicted problem, not mine. I'll keep on getting great value for money in the meantime.
 

Detail

Member
Dec 30, 2018
2,946
I have seen a lot of this over recent years, not sure if it's brand loyalty or corporate apologists for bad business practices but I completely agree with Phil, worry about yourself as a consumer and what's best for you, that's what will drive the market forward and make things better for everyone, businesses included.

I am really loving MS and their pro consumer approach at the moment.
 

Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
19,883
latest
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,888
I care about the product.

Gamepass might influence development in ways don't like.

Tacked on multiplayer, "live services", superfluous seasons.
The decline of certain genres.

It's happened many times in the past.

It could alternatively lead to positives, revive genres etc.

I'm not a consumer, I'm a hobbyist.
He mentions in the article about why he thinks single player games that aren't being made anymore are perfect for the service. Very good read
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,733
I'm more interested to hear what he'd say to those developers who are worried about how these models might impact their business. (And I think that's what 'gamers' who voice these concerns are worried about - not about Xbox's P+L).

I mean, I'm not necessarily one of those people - but it's a bit wrong to say those who have voiced concerns are simply worrying about Xbox's bottom line, and therefore shouldn't.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,482
Austin
I care about the product.

Gamepass might influence development in ways don't like.

Tacked on multiplayer, "live services", superfluous seasons.
The decline of certain genres.

It's happened many times in the past.

It could alternatively lead to positives, revive genres etc.

I'm not a consumer, I'm a hobbyist.
Yeah but might is the key word here, there's no proof of anything changing yet. Not to mention those tacked on multiplayer modes, live services, and seasonal crap that I also don't like was there before gamepass or any other sub service.
 

Letters

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,442
Portugal
I refuse to enjoy gamepass because it's too good to be true and they are operating it at a heavy loss. I can't enjoy myself playing a game if I don't know if my favorite gaming corporation is raking in the money.
 

Strike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,320
Good answer. They wouldn't be doing this if they didn't think it was worth it. Besides MS is a big company with a lot of money.
 

CaptNink

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,113
B.C, Canada
I care about the product.

Gamepass might influence development in ways don't like.

Tacked on multiplayer, "live services", superfluous seasons.
The decline of certain genres.

It's happened many times in the past.

It could alternatively lead to positives, revive genres etc.

I'm not a consumer, I'm a hobbyist.

Then don't invest in it. Invest in the products that influence development in ways you do like.

That's what Phill is saying here.
 
Nov 2, 2017
363
I'm not sure about this specific example with gamepass, but in general I agree. Odd to finally hear it from Phil of all people.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,670
But gamers know better than any ceo ever!
Yep, the internet tells me this is true!

On a more serious note, I love this service as a gamer/customer, but I also see it as a very smart way on their part to get people into the Xbox ecosystem and have them stay put there. I like that I have the option to buy the games on that service for a discount, and no streaming required... just bandwidth to download everything. Which is a lot. LOL
 
Jun 23, 2019
6,446
I'm more interested to hear what he'd say to those developers who are worried about how these models might impact their business. (And I think that's what 'gamers' who voice these concerns are worried about - not about Xbox's P+L).

I mean, I'm not necessarily one of those people - but it's a bit wrong to say those who have voiced concerns are simply worrying about Xbox's bottom line, and therefore shouldn't.

Agreed. This comes across as not arrogant, but sorta tone deaf. Of course consumers are going to worry about what affects them, but acting like your service isn't devaluating titles and affecting how devs and studios do business is a little disingenuous.
 

Deleted member 32563

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,336
He's literally talking to y'all. Translation: A majority of you are not investors and have idea what your talking about. Shut up and enjoy the games. Stop pocket watching and play your position.....consumer.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,270
I'm more interested to hear what he'd say to those developers who are worried about how these models might impact their business. (And I think that's what 'gamers' who voice these concerns are worried about - not about Xbox's P+L).

I mean, I'm not necessarily one of those people - but it's a bit wrong to say those who have voiced concerns are simply worrying about Xbox's bottom line, and therefore shouldn't.

What does he need to say to them? They don't have to go on gamepass if they don't like a subscription model.

There are two other companies and a PC market whom these devs can make games for if they don't like Microsoft's approach.

And for the life of me i can't understand why companies like ubi and ea are purposely devaluing their games by also having subs.
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,888
Yep, the internet tells me this is true!

On a more serious note, I love this service as a gamer/customer, but I also see it as a very smart way on their part to get people into the Xbox ecosystem and have them stay put there. I like that I have the option to buy the games on that service for a discount, and no streaming required... just bandwidth to download everything. Which is a lot. LOL
People sleep on the discount but if but a couple of the games you would have gotten anyway with the discount gamepass would probably end up paying for itself
 

ImaLawy3r

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 6, 2019
619
Microsoft takes all the money the make upfront, reinvests it, profits later while breaking even now or taking loss. ( I don't know what I am talking about. I am just a tinfoil hat CEO). Their stock has climbed significantly in the past few years.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,745
Sorry Phil, but it does matter to us because we fear subscription services dramatically affecting development cost and development as we know it and having an impact on how creators make money like with music, film, TV the past 10 years
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
So basically he's saying for new long term business plans the short term and old model may seem less profitable.

Yep, MS playing the long game folks, which I actually like they are moving foward, unlike Sony who are bit one foot in one foot out on there business model.

It's good to be leader in new business, being a copier and not fully committing can have negative consequences in the future.

It's a bit like car companies not investing in self driving and electric will no doubt be at a disadvantage in the future and may even die.
 

Shpeshal Nick

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,856
Melbourne, Australia
I'm more interested to hear what he'd say to those developers who are worried about how these models might impact their business. (And I think that's what 'gamers' who voice these concerns are worried about - not about Xbox's P+L).

I mean, I'm not necessarily one of those people - but it's a bit wrong to say those who have voiced concerns are simply worrying about Xbox's bottom line, and therefore shouldn't.

No one forced a developer to put their game on Game Pass. Many third party devs have already said in interviews that their game has benefitted from being on there.

Plenty of posters on Game Pass threads concern troll "how is Microsoft making money from this?"

Who cares? I just know that I basically never have to buy games when I own an Xbox. Good enough for me.
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,888
They have proven time and time again that they don't. And when I observe the current situation, all I see is Microsoft throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks.
You say that as if Microsoft is a single person not a group of people driven by a hierarchy of employees. The xbox of yesterday isn't the same as the xbox of today
 

Jaypah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,866
What does he need to say to them? They don't have to go on gamepass if they don't like a subscription model.

There are two other companies and a PC market whom these devs can make games for if they don't like Microsoft's approach.

And for the life of me i can't understand why companies like ubi and ea are purposely devaluing their games by also having subs.

Not to mention the only times I've seen devs unhappy about the idea and business of sub services they specifically said they weren't talking about Gamepass. But it's not going to stop the concern.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,343
I think this is a good way to say "don't worry on our behalf, we have good bean counters." Some enthusiasts lose perspective based on what amounts to corporate fan-fiction, without any particular insight.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,829
Sorry Phil, but it does matter to us because we fear subscription services dramatically affecting development cost and development as we know it and having an impact on how creators make money like with music, film, TV the past 10 years

Are you saying it effected creators negativity in Film and TV? It's been a boom for them.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,355
I mean yea. I'm not gonna focus on what a big corporation is getting out of it. I'm going to focus on myself, the consumer.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Well Fucking Said.

We had that corporate fan thread a week ago, quite embarrassing to see how many members are invested in maximising company profits.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
That's one of the most professional ways to tell your biggest fans to shut the hell up about things you know nothing about. I'm 110% for it.


It is partially the industry's fault for they blurred this line to increase engagement and produce hyper fans. So now you have a bunch of people really invested in something on an emotional level but really have a below 0 understanding of the subject despite what they think.

He's literally talking to y'all. Translation: A majority of you are not investors and have idea what your talking about. Shut up and enjoy the games. Stop pocket watching and play your position.....consumer.

Yup, 100%. Take a step back. Game Pass is a great value right now. I'm gonna ride it until it's bad then bail for something else. Being loyal to companies is for suckers.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,390
Really don't think that's the question being asked...people are wondering what it means for developers on game pass and the cause and effect of Xbox heavily pushing a subscription service and what that means for the value of games and digital and physical game sales.

I haven't seen anyone concerned with Microsoft. They are going this route because they've determined it will be the most profitable / far reaching. Anything else is PR.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,745
Then don't invest in it. Invest in the products that influence development in ways you do like.

That's what Phill is saying here.
Well yeah but look how not investing in Spotify, or iTunes in the 2000s worked out for musicians, film makers in Netflix, etc.

You can not invest yourself but you will affected of the industry changes
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,733
No one forced a developer to put their game on Game Pass. Many third party devs have already said in interviews that their game has benefitted from being on there.

I'm thinking of e.g. devolver's comments here - I don't think it's that they feel forced to put games on gamepass, but feel it might become unavoidable, or might disrupt the economics of development in a way that nobody can ignore, even those who don't partake or don't want to partake in sub services. I mean the worry expressed in that dev's comments related to things that could affect any dev if a lot of gamers start relying on sub services for the majority of their gaming, not just those who are or aren't on the services.

But I mean, those devs can speak for themselves. I think that conversation is the more interesting one, not 'oh how will MS make money'. I mean, you're right, in that nobody should care about Microsoft's bottom line in this.
 

Ceileachair

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
189
I care about the product.

Gamepass might influence development in ways don't like.

Tacked on multiplayer, "live services", superfluous seasons.
The decline of certain genres.

It's happened many times in the past.

It could alternatively lead to positives, revive genres etc.

I'm not a consumer, I'm a hobbyist.
You are a consumer. You can't have a hobby in video games without consuming the product there selling you.
Now if you were a hobbyist in mountain climbing, running, bird watching, watching sunsets ext.. then yes, you are not a consumer but just a hobbyist of those activities.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,205
Absolutely right. Go to what's offering you, the consumer and player, the best service and value instead of tripping over yourself to justify paying more or even the same price for a game on a platform that offers less to you compared to its competition. Hint, hint. Wink, wink.