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SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
You can't convince me that they've really been committed for the last few years with the store in the condition it's in today. You're lying to yourself and everyone else. Maybe they'll finally start giving a shit, I don't know. I'm not going to take their word for it. I want results.

If putting your biggest games on PC isn't commitment, then I don't know what is. You are just looking for more commitment (especially on the storefront side of things). If they didn't give a shit they wouldn't announce their next Halo game coming to Windows 10.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,989
Texas
If putting your biggest games on PC isn't commitment, then I don't know what is. You are just looking for more commitment (especially on the storefront side of things). If they didn't give a shit they wouldn't announce their next Halo game coming to Windows 10.
Releasing their games shows the bare minimum of commitment. It's not enough. They're forcing us to use a store that in many cases is literally broken and won't let us play those games. They're removing the control and freedom we have to do what we want with the games we download.

If this is all the commitment they can muster, they can keep it. I'd rather they did nothing. Just like GFWL, this type of commitment is harmful to my experience.

You're arguing that literally anything above 0 commitment is something we should celebrate.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
How does saying I'd rather they didn't do something mean I wish it didn't exist?

We get this lip service off them year after year, and year after year they do something shitty like GWFL, or UWP and the Windows 10 store, which is the worst storefront on PC.

And PC is an open platform, something Microsoft forgets.

This again, huh?

Poor competition is not competition.

This is like saying Nintendo should not exist because Sony and Microsof have better hardware and better online services. yes we can all agree Windows Store can be a lot better but again it's about options now. 1st party games now exist on both, that to me is already much better than before. If the restrictions are too much for you then don't play the games or buy an Xbox, it really is that simple. It's the same mentality some take with Switch hardware, fair enough, but some of you are acting like Windows Store is somehow limiting your ability to play other games.

I would be far more worried about companies like Google and Amazon who have the capital to make exclusive deals and poach developers, then make streaming only as an option to play them. Or console hardware makers like Nintendo and Sony who do not even give you the option to play on the PC and who also poach third party developers and deals.

Depends on what you call getting this right.
if it means shoving their UWP plans and releasing their games on every services on PC, then yes, we have a deal.
Otherwise, no, not everybody wins.

I can see their point. Sometimes a passive attitude is better than one that actively ruins a platform.

Ruins a platform? How far are you really willing to go with this? In the past we had basically zero games on the PC, all were on Xbox. Now we have both, so right there I already win. Second of all this blanket statement of ruining a platform? Does Steam not work for you? Can you still not buy games on GoG?
 

Kaako

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,736
Definitely reads like the same song & dance. I'll look forward to seeing them results.
 

ToadPacShakur

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,449
No thanks. After GFWL, it should never happen and they should never be entrusted with a backend and library management on PC.
Heck, they can do both you know ? Allow people to choose and have their launcher if people want "Gamepass".




A few people naively don't want to get screwed a 2nd time.

Considering every other major publisher is moving their titles to their own launcher, I think it's silly to expect Microsoft to not do the same. I'm not the biggest fan of having 5-6 different launchers on my taskbar but they didn't start this trend either. Let's just see what happens at E3🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ They gotta have SOMETHING major planned if they are trying to get those GamePas and Xcloud subscriptions out of us 😉😉.

GFWL sucked, yes..but that was made under a different leadership group. The way Satya and Phil have turned everything else around gives me some hope
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
This is like saying Nintendo should not exist because Sony and Microsof have better hardware and better online services. yes we can all agree Windows Store can be a lot better but again it's about options now. 1st party games now exist on both, that to me is already much better than before. If the restrictions are too much for you then don't play the games or buy an Xbox, it really is that simple. It's the same mentality some take with Switch hardware, fair enough, but some of you are acting like Windows Store is somehow limiting your ability to play other games.

I would be far more worried about companies like Google and Amazon who have the capital to make exclusive deals and poach developers, then make streaming only as an option to play them. Or console hardware makers like Nintendo and Sony who do not even give you the option to play on the PC and who also poach third party developers and deals.



Ruins a platform? How far are you really willing to go with this? In the past we had basically zero games on the PC, all were on Xbox. Now we have both, so right there I already win. Second of all this blanket statement of ruining a platform? Does Steam not work for you? Can you still not buy games on GoG?


Ruining a platform yes if they stick to plans for pushing UWP.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
Releasing their games shows the bare minimum of commitment. It's not enough. They're forcing us to use a store that in many cases is literally broken and won't let us play those games. They're removing the control and freedom we have to do what we want with the games we download.

If this is all the commitment they can muster, they can keep it. I'd rather they did nothing. Just like GFWL, this type of commitment is harmful to my experience.

You're arguing that literally anything above 0 commitment is something we should celebrate.

No, but people are saying their commitment means nothing. Which is just blatantly false. We've seen game announcements and new services every year since they've launched Windows 10. You don't need to celebrate it. I don't.

I'm just fighting this narrative of Phil saying they are trying to improve pc gaming and having commitment to it being false.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
I mean sure, but this is a weird bar to set. Everyone here who's like, "they should shut up about PC blah rah rah rah". Like.. ok. They could say nothing and refuse the interview from PC Gamer. And then what? This isn't Phil going on stage, releasing news, and announcing anything. This is literally just someone asking him a question about PC. This is on the level of one of you guys tweeting Phil and expecting him to lay out the entire roadmap with carefully curated dates and milestones. What the heck do you all expect?

(That said, yes, I don't see any reason to be overly hyped until it happens. I do expect better results and some interesting surprises, but I will wait for when they actually come through.)

They have had years to properly implement a store. Im not just talking about this time. im talking about every time.

A store shouldn't require fanfare to work. This talk about Games when for many people they literally cannot download things because the store is that bad.

Microsoft have talked more about fixing the store then fixing it. This is like if a developer talked endlessly about fixing bugs in their game without ever actually fixing it.
 

More Butter

Banned
Jun 12, 2018
1,890
I bet Phil gives the greatest hugs. Not his, "I'm the face of Xbox side hug" that you might get at an event. I'm talking about the "I'm your father and even though you make mistakes, you mean the world to me and I'm proud of you" hug. Since he has a somewhat medium build he probably goes low around the rib cage with his hugs. It's hard to imagine one of his arms over shoulder. I really wish I could experience that embrace.
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
I'm just fighting this narrative of Phil saying they are trying to improve pc gaming and having commitment to it being false.
It is pretty false though because he plays lip service to it every year doesn't mean it is accurate. The store is still terrible and it's all talk until they fix it.
Microsoft have talked more about fixing the store then fixing it. This is like if a developer talked endlessly about fixing bugs in their game without ever actually fixing it.
You are right on with that.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Ruining a platform yes if they stick to plans for pushing UWP.
Obviously you have your own agenda and will be in every Windows topic every day pushing the same narrative. Time to put you on ignore.

Anyways it's good people are talking about and more importantly the people at Microsoft are not only talking about it but know it needs revamping.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
Obviously you have your own agenda and will be in every Windows topic every day pushing the same narrative. Time to put you on ignore.

Anyways it's good people are talking about and more importantly the people at Microsoft are not only talking about it but know it needs revamping.

Truth is hurting ?
Or maybe arguing is difficult ? Go on with the ignore list, it just shows your ignorance on the subject.
 

FlintSpace

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,817
Will believe when I see it. Or better when I see it working in real life.
MS has been blowing smoke up when it comes to PC gaming since...I don't know..2007 ??
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
It is pretty false though because he plays lip service to it every year doesn't mean it is accurate. The store is still terrible and it's all talk until they fix it.

Guess what, they've done quite some changes to the Microsoft Store since 2015. And I'm talking commitment to PC gaming as a whole, not just the store. It's absolutely justified to call them out on that. The Microsoft Store is a piece of shit and an embarrassment for the largest software company in the world. Just outright scandalous.

But they have been supportive of pc gaming in these past 3-4 years.
 

Swenhir

Member
Oct 28, 2017
521
Drop UWP-as-DRM encryption, give users back control of their own machine on standard versions of Windows 10 and then we're talking.

I can't take Microsoft's initiative as anything but an attempt to turn Windows into a walled garden otherwise. And it's a shame because I get the feeling they are making an honest attempt here. But those are deal-breakers for me. I suspect it's not on Spencer but rather Nadella.
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,147
They give you a date basically when it's being unveiled.....yup it's a typical Microsoft thread here.
I'm not holding my breath until they announce whatever they're working on at E3, they hopefully have a roadmap for once, they actually deliver on everything they bring up in their conference, and everything they do is a genuine leap forward in their effort on the platform that doesn't quickly lose it's momentum. Microsoft has squandered their benefit of the doubt enough times that they've racked up a debt.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
My biggest concern is all of these promises solidifying into tangible compelling videogames. I've just heard this sort of line from Phil so many times without seeing any major improvement other than from a services perspective that it's started to ring a little hollow. But I will be glad if this year really does assuage those fears.
 
Nov 11, 2017
2,744
I'm confused why era hates Phil spencer so much, he tells you his plans and 9/10 times he completes them not sure what the anger is about. Is he perfect ? No of course not no ones perfect, ms has moved away from windows as a archaic platform and I'm sure we will see that soon. Development especially software dev takes time
 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,567
When I can get my hands on these pc focused games, that would alleviate some of skepticism
 

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,644
"PC is super important to us" - Microsoft 5 years ago

Ok, whatever. Call me when you're actually here and also when it's not the Windows Store.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
If putting your biggest games on PC isn't commitment, then I don't know what is. You are just looking for more commitment (especially on the storefront side of things). If they didn't give a shit they wouldn't announce their next Halo game coming to Windows 10.
How about a way to play those games without occasional OS reformat or not redownloading games/patches a dozen times? How many articles do we need to list to show that Windows Store is shit and that the fact that say Forza 4 is on Windows Store is irrelevant to a fair number of people because they simply can't get it to play without doing major troubleshooting of the goddamn OS.

This is what's needed first, decoupling of their freaking store. Everything else can come and go later. I appreciate MS putting Gears (interestingly enough Gears Ultimate has been fairly broken on Windows Store since 1809 build), Forza, Halo, etc... but the fact that its all tied to terrible UWP implementation with its encryption and inherent anti-modding design as well as horrible structure of the store application itself makes all their efforts pointless.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
How about a way to play those games without occasional OS reformat or not redownloading games/patches a dozen times? How many articles do we need to list to show that Windows Store is shit and that the fact that say Forza 4 is on Windows Store is irrelevant to a fair number of people because they simply can't get it to play without doing major troubleshooting of the goddamn OS.

This is what's needed first, decoupling of their freaking store. Everything else can come and go later. I appreciate MS putting Gears (interestingly enough Gears Ultimate has been fairly broken on Windows Store since 1809 build), Forza, Halo, etc... but the fact that its all tied to terrible UWP implementation with its encryption and inherent anti-modding design as well as horrible structure of the store application itself makes all their efforts pointless.

It's still commitment. Not sure why you are fighting me on that.
 

JD3Nine

The Fallen
Nov 6, 2017
1,866
Texas, United States
I'm confused why era hates Phil spencer so much, he tells you his plans and 9/10 times he completes them not sure what the anger is about. Is he perfect ? No of course not no ones perfect, ms has moved away from windows as a archaic platform and I'm sure we will see that soon. Development especially software dev takes time
Can you see how a PC only player would have a different opinion of MS? These discussions would be a lot better if people could. No one is denying that he has done some good stuff for Xbox. None of that has translated over to PC yet. He has been telling us his plans for a few years now. The same way everyone else from MS has done over the years.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
I'm confused why era hates Phil spencer so much, he tells you his plans and 9/10 times he completes them not sure what the anger is about. Is he perfect ? No of course not no ones perfect, ms has moved away from windows as a archaic platform and I'm sure we will see that soon. Development especially software dev takes time
Nobody hates Phil Spencer. He has been pretty good at the Xbox side. What people dislike is continuous pointless lip effort on MS side about PC gaming when they can't get something as basic as a storefront to freaking work. There have been numerous threads, posts, discussions on that causing OS reinstalls, version rollbacks, incessant redownloads of patches and games, and so on. It's still broken and been broken for years.

Then throw UWP implementation which DRMs the already DRM'd versions of games, introducing troubleshooting issues, performance impact and more. Sprinkle on issues with modding.

Much as with stupidity around defending anti-consumer Epic policies funded by Fortnite and VC cash (and Tencent) and how majority of people defend Steam not because it's their only launcher (I personally have GoG Galaxy, Origin, Uplay and Battlenet in addition to Steam) and fixate on the "cut" and exclusivity, the Windows store issue is not as much about games but rather about broken infrastructure that's been that way since pretty much Windows 8 released.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
None of that has translated over to PC yet.

But I've been playing Microsoft games like Sea of Thieves, Halo Wars 2 and Forza Horizon 4 past year. His vision has translated over to PC in a very big way. It's just that A) the store is a piece of shit and B) UWP applications are not what most PC gamers want.

Their strategy has allowed me to play Microsoft games for the first time since.. Age of Empires 3? That's impact.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
I'm not sure why you think rebutting people decrying MS's efforts with the literal bare minimum of effort is necessary.

Because I disagree with people that say they have a no commitment on PC gaming. You don't do the things MS has done if you have no commitment. Shitting on that ill excuse of a store is all justified and should be happening a lot more. But I'm getting Age of Empires 4. And I'm not sure that would've ever happened without their current Windows 10 gaming strategy. That's commitment.
 

JD3Nine

The Fallen
Nov 6, 2017
1,866
Texas, United States
But I've been playing Microsoft games like Sea of Thieves, Halo Wars 2 and Forza Horizon 4 past year. His vision has translated over to PC in a very big way. It's just that A) the store is a piece of shit and B) UWP applications are not what most PC gamers want.

Their strategy has allowed me to play Microsoft games for the first time since.. Age of Empires 3? That's impact.
Yeah. You got me there. If Play Anywhere was his idea then he deserves credit for that. Still, I would prefer it if they got everything else in line. I know you do, too.
 

arts&crafts

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,123
Toronto
The Windows Store is awful on PC but game pass is pretty good (although it is still hard to find, install and then find the games you installed on your PC). They just need to completely re haul the store from the ground up.
 
Nov 11, 2017
2,744
Can you see how a PC only player would have a different opinion of MS? These discussions would be a lot better if people could. No one is denying that he has done some good stuff for Xbox. None of that has translated over to PC yet. He has been telling us his plans for a few years now. The same way everyone else from MS has done over the years.
He wasn't in charge of windows or PC though, blaming him for a division that he wasn't in apart of the last 2 decades is dumb
Nobody hates Phil Spencer. He has been pretty good at the Xbox side. What people dislike is continuous pointless lip effort on MS side about PC gaming when they can't get something as basic as a storefront to freaking work. There have been numerous threads, posts, discussions on that causing OS reinstalls, version rollbacks, incessant redownloads of patches and games, and so on. It's still broken and been broken for years.

Then throw UWP implementation which DRMs the already DRM'd versions of games, introducing troubleshooting issues, performance impact and more. Sprinkle on issues with modding.

Much as with stupidity around defending anti-consumer Epic policies funded by Fortnite and VC cash (and Tencent) and how majority of people defend Steam not because it's their only launcher (I personally have GoG Galaxy, Origin, Uplay and Battlenet in addition to Steam) and fixate on the "cut" and exclusivity, the Windows store issue is not as much about games but rather about broken infrastructure that's been that way since pretty much Windows 8 released.
like i said above prior to last year he had zero control on anything windows, before the restructuring windows was actually above xbox in the organization. Xbox and windows have always been two totally separate competing teams. I think eventually ms will cave in and release uwp free games, that whole uwp intiative was a terry myerson led phase. I'm sure these things will change it'll obviously take time.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
I am hoping that API is hinting that we will be getting both. I don't see why else Steam would build in native XBL crossplay

I hope you're right. But this API doesn't have to mean that Microsoft will bring their 1st party games to Steam. Microsoft is pushing Xbox Live as a cross-platform solution for 3rd party games as well.
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
Nobody hates Phil Spencer. He has been pretty good at the Xbox side. What people dislike is continuous pointless lip effort on MS side about PC gaming when they can't get something as basic as a storefront to freaking work. There have been numerous threads, posts, discussions on that causing OS reinstalls, version rollbacks, incessant redownloads of patches and games, and so on. It's still broken and been broken for years.

Then throw UWP implementation which DRMs the already DRM'd versions of games, introducing troubleshooting issues, performance impact and more. Sprinkle on issues with modding.

Much as with stupidity around defending anti-consumer Epic policies funded by Fortnite and VC cash (and Tencent) and how majority of people defend Steam not because it's their only launcher (I personally have GoG Galaxy, Origin, Uplay and Battlenet in addition to Steam) and fixate on the "cut" and exclusivity, the Windows store issue is not as much about games but rather about broken infrastructure that's been that way since pretty much Windows 8 released.
I agree, Nobody that i see dislikes Phil Spencer and he seems geniune but I take the wait and see approach on a bunch of the things microsoft is doing including how the first party will turn out and their constant promising and failing to do anything with pc gaming.
 

zon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,425
At least once or twice a year ever since becoming the head of Xbox, in 2014.

2015: Here and here.
2016: Here and here.
2017: Here.
2018: Here.

Basically, every time they tried to launch a major game in the MS Store and it crashed and burned, with no improvements for subsequent releases.

I'll believe it when we start seeing some actual changes, instead of more annual empty promises.

I was about to ask which # this was in his long line of promises about focusing on PC. Good research.
 

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,495
It is pretty false though because he plays lip service to it every year doesn't mean it is accurate. The store is still terrible and it's all talk until they fix it.
You are right on with that.

I just saved this post for E3 reference.

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