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Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
something about the way she uses mental illness rubs me the wrong way too.

Yeah, I mean what kind of person would use mental illness or a need for therapy as a excus.... oh, wait:

You know that for a fact?

He himself denies none of the claims made against him, he claims that he didn't understand power dynamics, he does nothing at all to discredit her statement so why are people in here doing their best to?
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
Are you the weirdo who was posting this thread to her? Because that's just odd. And she's not happy that its being discussed in some circles because GG is trying to use her as a way to attack Polygon as a whole which is not what she wants.

Did...you just call me a "weirdo"? That's really uncalled for.
 

meanspartan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
54
San Diego
Because her entire perception takes any responsibility away from her and she uses both age and mental illness as a means to do it. In regards to the mental illness, it'd be a bit weird if he knew and knowingly tried to exploit that, but now we're just guessing. I think the guy was a bit sleezy, but reading the chain of events doesn't make it come across as harassment.

Yep. Phil absolutely seems sleazy here and not a good look. But sleazyness isnt automatically harassment.

Her blaming being bipolar (as if phil could know that) is not great. "Blaming the victim" is horrific, but now we are heading to the opposite extreme where alleged victims are infantilized and have no agency for their actions.
 

Okii

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
I don't see how this is an issue with her, she said she flirted with him, he flirted back and then she decided not to flirt anymore and he continued to, via tweets and texts, instead of telling him to stop she commented on one of his posts with ❤️❤️❤️ and then ignored him? Maybe I missed something with how Twitter is hard to follow but nothing about this seems like a sexual harassment concern. Some care to explain what I'm missing if anything?
 

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,137
UK


She literally mentions it in this tweet right here.


I'm not sure if you're reading properly. He asked her to get a room if she drank too much, whilst she was sober. She wasn't drunk when he asked this, hence not "taking advantage of whilst drunk" is a complete misrepresentation of what happened.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
I don't see how this is an issue with her, she said she flirted with him, he flirted back and then she decided not to flirt anymore and he continued to, via tweets and texts, instead of telling him to stop she commented on one of his posts with ❤️❤️❤️ and then ignored him? Maybe I missed something with how Twitter is hard to follow but nothing about this seems like a sexual harassment concern. Some care to explain what I'm missing if anything?
This is honestly where I'm lost, as well.
 

Deleted member 4037

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,989
I dont have a horse in this race or anything because I dont know the polygon guy and I am sympathetic to the cause, nobody should be abuse their power to pressure people. That being said, is this one that bad? From reading through her tweets quick it seems like she was of age, fully engaging with him in instances and there wasnt any physical contact. Im not sure what the contents of his messages were, but at worst he just sounds creepy rather than a sexual predator like Weinstein. I dont know if this is a serial thing or something, but it seems kind of bad that twitter is now the judge on this one. Im not saying she is lying in anyway, I think she believes she was mistreated, but I think it kind of pales in comparison to a lot of the stories we are hearing. Some people are calling him to be fired and I dont think its fair to the dude that just because its posted on social media its a worse case scenario. If anything it seems like he got a hint and was staying away
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
Yeah, if you were the one posting that to her. Making a tweet with a link to this thread saying "Most people in this thread dont' believe you" is super weird.

Except that is NOT what I said AT ALL. You're misrepresenting all the things I said to her, and I said a LOT. And I DID say that I believed her, but that if she didn't want it being disseminated by public discussion she shouldn't have made it public. Jesus, what is wrong with you?
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
I dont have a horse in this race or anything because I dont know the polygon guy and I am sympathetic to the cause, nobody should be abuse their power to pressure people. That being said, is this one that bad? From reading through her tweets quick it seems like she was of age, fully engaging with him in instances and there wasnt any physical contact. Im not sure what the contents of his messages were, but at worst he just sounds creepy rather than a sexual predator like Weinstein. I dont know if this is a serial thing or something, but it seems kind of bad that twitter is now the judge on this one. Im not saying she is lying in anyway, I think she believes she was mistreated, but I think it kind of pales in comparison to a lot of the stories we are hearing. Some people are calling him to be fired and I dont think its fair to the dude that just because its posted on social media its a worse case scenario. If anything it seems like he got a hint and was staying away

Yes there are other unnamed women. And no one is saying he's on the level of Weinstein.

Except that is NOT what I said AT ALL. You're misrepresenting all the things I said to her, and I said a LOT. And I DID say that I believed her, but that if she didn't want it being disseminated by public discussion she shouldn't have made it public. Jesus, what is wrong with you?

When someone is reaching out for support, maybe don't shove in her face that some people don't believe her.
 

King Tubby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,521
It sounds like they mutually flirted for a while, she felt he was being creepy, and then they stopped communicating. I don't see how his behavior warrants being reprimanded?
 

Paradox House

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,115
I mean she wasnt a child and it doesnt sound like he ever used threats or tried to abuse his position to me?

Just a grown man acting like a dick and a fool at the same time. I mean she even says it went on for years and she clearly knew it was flirting.

It sounds like she was negatively impacted by all this but she also had some personal issues that I doubt be could have really known about (i know hypersexuality is a symptom of mania but its also nust being an 18/19 yo girl).

I dont know its weird. I almost feel like everything thats been going on have made her feel ashamed of this? I dont think this is something to overthink so hopefully she can find a way past it for her own sakes.

Hes right to apologise as clearly he was pushing at something enough for ber to block him. I dont know enough about his marriage to comment on that.
 

Masoyama

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,648
I feel like this situation demonstrates of all this sexual-harassment outing is a slippery slope. While I absolutely think shining a light on behavior that makes people feel uncomfortable/unsafe/etc. is important and ultimately good for society, I also believe transforming case of unwanted, yet routine flirting into harassment is also harmful.

I totally disagree on the slippery slope. This thread, if anything, is proof that most people approach this subject with respect, trying to see of from the victims perspective but not jumping feet first into calling everyone a sexual predator. Most people here agree that phill was sleazy, over played his hand by using his position of power and that he fucked up. Nevertheless it hasn't become a mass calling for his firing like the Nick Robinson case, that was a much more clear cut case of harassment and predation.
 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,564
I'm not seeing the sexual harassment here, at least not exactly as described in the tweet thread. That polygon didn't do anything at all about it is problematic - i mean at least look into it, even if the conclusion is 'it wasn't harassment' do something.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,946
She uses it to show that she was in a vulnerable state because she had just been diagnosed. I guess that can rub you the wrong way?

Saying "If you get too drunk, I'll get a hotel room and help you into it" is totally an innocent offer. Especially when she had to come up with MULTIPLE excuses to get him to drop the hotel

First, I assume the reason the other poster said her use of her mental illness "rubs him the wrong way" because it is unlikely Phil knew she was Bi-Polar. From her reply: "you took advantage of a mentally ill, vulnerable girl who wanted to go into games journalism." In order to take advantage of someone you have to have knowledge of whatever you are attempting to use to manipulate them. Thus, if she never mentioned her illness to Phil it is highly unlikely he "took advantage" of her mental illness.

Second, again, you are assuming a lot based on nothing but your own preconceptions. We do not know how many times he offered but based purely on her original thread it seems it was around twice. The initial offer, her response about staying with friends, and another offer to be sure. I haven't seen any "multiple excuses to get him to drop the hotel." So, again, you're injecting new facets into the narrative which do no exist presently. But, nothing about his initial offer can prove that there were sinister motives behind it. You may feel that, she may feel that, but your feelings are not fact. After all, predatory men acting upon "assumptions" are what leads to trouble in the first place.
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
When someone is reaching out for support, maybe don't shove in her face that some people don't believe her.

Again, a total misrepresentation of what I said. You're not in any position to assume my motivations, because you're not accurately portraying the exchange of dialogue AT ALL. Anyone here is free to read the lengthy exchange on Twitter to see for themselves just how baseless your insinuations are. Your agenda is starting to show here. Move on, please.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,979
Yeah, I mean what kind of person would use mental illness or a need for therapy as a excus.... oh, wait:



He himself denies none of the claims made against him, he claims that he didn't understand power dynamics, he does nothing at all to discredit her statement so why are people in here doing their best to?


I think you don't understand how internet works. If he would have denied any of her claims it would have become his word against her word and everything would have burned out in flames. He did right. He can't change the way she felt about the whole things. He apologised for making things awkward. That is not an admission of guilt, that's understanding how social relations work.

Also, he didn't use therapy as an excuse but as an example of "I learnt my lesson and I'm trying to avoid being a jerk now".
 

Beef Stallmer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
875
Wait what?

I've gone to drinks and shared hotels with friends (including those of the opposite sex) and never assumed someone going into the bathroom means i should get naked and go in there too.

That's because you are hopefully not a predator!
If there is alcohol involved hidden urges often take over consciousness and people interpret signals wrong. Like how some people always become overly aggressive when drunk. A person looking at them accidentally is interpreted as a person who wants to fight them, so they start a fight. in the same way I think, if a predator is drunk then they think the victim is inviting them or some sick shit like that.

Btw, a lot of people, gaming related, who showed predatory behavior, all seem to share a certain look. They appear like harmless regular nice guys. That is how they gain their victims trust. If it was a strong and good looking person, people soon to take more caution around them. They assume such a person can get with other people easily so they don't immediately share hotel rooms. Harmless regular nice guy? You can really trust those, they are probably too shy to do anything anyway... well, unless they are getting you drunk. But then it's probably already too late.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
First, I assume the reason the other poster said her use of her mental illness "rubs him the wrong way" because it is unlikely Phil knew she was Bi-Polar. From her reply: "you took advantage of a mentally ill, vulnerable girl who wanted to go into games journalism." In order to take advantage of someone you have to have knowledge of whatever you are attempting to use to manipulate them. Thus, if she never mentioned her illness to Phil it is highly unlikely he "took advantage" of her mental illness.

Second, again, you are assuming a lot based on nothing but your own preconceptions. We do not know how many times he offered but based purely on her original thread it seems it was around twice. The initial offer, her response about staying with friends, and another offer to be sure. I haven't seen any "multiple excuses to get him to drop the hotel." So, again, you're injecting new facets into the narrative which do no exist presently. But, nothing about his initial offer can prove that there were sinister motives behind it. You may feel that, she may feel that, but your feelings are not fact. After all, predatory men acting upon "assumptions" are what leads to trouble in the first place.

They don't exist? https://twitter.com/sdirtythugnasty/status/929821218852757505 This one and the one after it where she tells him how uncomfortable she was and how she had to come up with multiple obvious excuses. You should try actually reading the twitter thread before accusing me of making up facts.

And I don't know why you would assume that after knowing each for 3 years, that he wouldn't know she was bipolar.
 

replicantUK

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
838
United Kingdom
I would argue the same is true of the age differential bring tangential to the main issue. These are relevant only insofar as they furthered a power disparity between the two; for example, Kollar being married making Camino feel safe around him, or the age difference putting him in a position of social power.

Wait a minute.

This is the second time on this forum I have seen someone make disparaging remarks on the basis of an age difference. While, we are no longer together, my ex was 12 years my junior. It is perfectly normal and acceptable for people of varying ages to enter into a healthy and positive relationship. I find your attitude quite closed minded and offensive.
 

LossAversion

The Merchant of ERA
Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,659
First, I assume the reason the other poster said her use of her mental illness "rubs him the wrong way" because it is unlikely Phil knew she was Bi-Polar. From her reply: "you took advantage of a mentally ill, vulnerable girl who wanted to go into games journalism." In order to take advantage of someone you have to have knowledge of whatever you are attempting to use to manipulate them. Thus, if she never mentioned her illness to Phil it is highly unlikely he "took advantage" of her mental illness.

Second, again, you are assuming a lot based on nothing but your own preconceptions. We do not know how many times he offered but based purely on her original thread it seems it was around twice. The initial offer, her response about staying with friends, and another offer to be sure. I haven't seen any "multiple excuses to get him to drop the hotel." So, again, you're injecting new facets into the narrative which do no exist presently. But, nothing about his initial offer can prove that there were sinister motives behind it. You may feel that, she may feel that, but your feelings are not fact. After all, predatory men acting upon "assumptions" are what leads to trouble in the first place.
Stop with all the logic.
 

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,365
Boston
If we're agreeing that Evilore was a creep for thinking sharing a hotel room had romantic connotations then Kolar inviting her to a hotel room when she's drunk doesn't have romantic connotations either right?

One guy jumped in a shower naked uninvited, has posted he assaulted someone over a drink, and put revenge porn on the internet.

The other dude seems to have had a pretty normal friendship/relationship that didn't work out.

I don't see the issue here. Just sounds like any other messy, flawed relationship between two humans, unless there is more to the story.
 

Omar

Member
Oct 31, 2017
160
Friendly remainder that gender violence can take many forms is not exclusive to males

"I don't want to destroy your life" - beyond hypocrite given current context
 

Masoyama

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,648
Btw, a lot of people, gaming related, who showed predatory behavior, all seem to share a certain look. They appear like harmless regular nice guys. That is how they gain their victims trust. If it was a strong and good looking person, people soon to take more caution around them. They assume such a person can get with other people easily so they don't immediately share hotel rooms. Harmless regular nice guy? You can really trust those, they are probably too shy to do anything anyway... well, unless they are getting you drunk. But then it's probably already too late.

Right!? People like Brian Altan, Max Scoville, Sam Claiborn, Marty Sliva all have a very strong personality, very aggressive, in your face attitude but everyone around them has referenced them as some of the most helpful and respectfull people to work with. Marty walking out, Sam being called specifically by Kalli as helpful, eveyone thanking Brian for things we haven't even heard about behind the scenes, et c
 

Deleted member 11157

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,880
Reading that twitter thread, Phillip needs to stop tweeting apologies. You should tackle accusations head on, but he's not doing himself any favors.
 

Beef Stallmer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
875
Yep. People that age can go fight and die in wars but she has to be protected from flirting that she participated in?
Was she allowed to go in bars though? I thought 21 was the legal drinking age in USA?
Wikipedia says this:

Some U.S. states have legislation that make providing to and possession of alcohol by persons under twenty-one a gross misdemeanor with a potential penalty of a $5,000 fine or up to year in jail.
 

17 Seconds

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,589
seriously, the fact that she felt this his actions warranted going public with all this is so fucked up, especially considering the current climate. i'm not even interested in defending this guy. he's a dumbass that acted kind of sleezy, but i do not believe this woman was victimized in any way.
 

Deleted member 2652

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,434
So the she and Phil both agree that this was an issue, yet we're trying to decide whether it was actually an issue? Did anyone ever consider the circumstances were specifically left vague?
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
A few issues with that analogy:

1) Penguin trainers are in charge of penguins, she wasn't an employee or a coworker. The best she can come up with is that she was a fan
2) She invited him for drinks
3) Penguins are fucking non-sapient animals. She is a grown ass woman, presumably with free will

Hence me saying it was a better analogy than yours (given it included an abuse of power dynamics, sexual harassment which are the key factors here) and not a good analogy.

I think you don't understand how internet works. If he would have denied any of her claims it would have become his word against her word and everything would have burned out in flames. He did right. He can't change the way she felt about the whole things. He apologised for making things awkward. That is not an admission of guilt, that's understanding how social relations work.

Also, he didn't use therapy as an excuse but as an example of "I learnt my lesson and I'm trying to avoid being a jerk now".

Yeah, if any things clear when it comes to the harassment of women on the internet, it's the accused males that get the worst end of it. He can't change the way she felt about things, but if he had evidence that the way she perceived things was wrong he has no reason not to post it.
 

Deleted member 9486

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,867
I don't see how this is an issue with her, she said she flirted with him, he flirted back and then she decided not to flirt anymore and he continued to, via tweets and texts, instead of telling him to stop she commented on one of his posts with ❤️❤️❤️ and then ignored him? Maybe I missed something with how Twitter is hard to follow but nothing about this seems like a sexual harassment concern. Some care to explain what I'm missing if anything?

I mean I think he was creepy and pathetic for keeping after her for so long after her flirting back stopped. Some other details are potentially more creepy (the drive here and bar hop, you can crash in my room--no way to know if his intentions were date rape or just trying to get her to come hang out and not have to worry about driving drunk--creepy to offer someone you've not met in person to crash in your room in any case).

But from what's been shown, I don't see outright harassment either. Just someone who's at best creepy as they're socially awkward and at worst very creepy and aggressive in trying to get sex and potentially using alcohol to help (and awful if he was willing to go the full get her black out drunk date rape situation, but that's a hell of a leap from the little we know).

It seems more likely that she just didn't aggressively put a stop to his incessant flirting (and probably unintentionally kept it going for a while with the heart to his tweet, responding to him about going to Austin in 2016 etc.) and feels really bad about it as he was so persistent and it got creepier the longer he kept it up. I also think some of her shame/bad feeling is she knows she should have shut him down more aggressively but didn't for whatever reasons (wanting the industry contact or her bipolar and being younger than him as she argued.

It just seems like an all around unfortunate situations where both people should have known better, him MUCH more so than her given his status (and her as a fan) and being older etc. But definitely something that didn't need made public IMO. Unless there are worse details that haven't came to light yet.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,946
One guy jumped in a shower naked uninvited, has posted he assaulted someone over a drink, and put revenge porn on the internet.

The other dude seems to have had a pretty normal friendship/relationship that didn't work out.

I don't see the issue here. Just sounds like any other messy, flawed relationship between two humans, unless there is more to the story.

I believe that's what the poster was getting at. I don't want to bring up Evilore here but since it's already been discussed, I think what SaltyGeneralTso was saying is that Evilore had no right to believe that sharing a hotel room with a friend of the opposite sex was some sort of invitation with romantic connotations. Therefore, it's weird to then attack Phil because he invited a woman over to his hotel room because now people are attaching a romantic connotation to the offer.
 

replicantUK

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
838
United Kingdom
Yeah, because I don't like people downplaying sexual harassment just because they can't imagine what its like. You're spending plenty of time in this thread as well.

Why do you think you are able to imagine what it SH like, but others can't. Seems an odd stance to take.

Are you some sort of expert the prosecutor wheels out in court?
 

inpHilltr8r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,241
Wait a minute.

This is the second time on this forum I have seen someone make disparaging remarks on the basis of an age difference. While, we are no longer together, my ex was 12 years my junior. It is perfectly normal and acceptable for people of varying ages to enter into a healthy and positive relationship. I find your attitude quite closed minded and offensive.
If you were 40+ sure. If you were <30 then pretty much no.
 

meanspartan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
54
San Diego
As a 28 year old who has faithfully been with the same great woman for nearly a decade, I dont envy modern dating lol.

I guess draft up release agreements and consent forms before flirting.
 
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