• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Slackbladder

Member
Nov 24, 2017
1,145
Kent
So how do you deal with those alien artillery fuckers? Also research in this game is incredibly unfocused. Seems to be based on who you meet (in whatever order) and what you kill. No weapon research yet, or armour. No way to increase Manticore size or expand base. Also things seem to be moving along way too fast. Already the coast where my base is has become overun and yet to find another base. I'll start again but the game feels uncooked.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
I have weapons research via finding a weapon on a corpse and now I can "research" it to presumably make it manufacturable on a wider scale / actually have ammo for it.
 

Rean

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,329
i cant get over the feeling that its xcom 2 with mods.
like, visual representation is so similar that my brain refuses to think otherwise
 

Myradeer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,427
Canada
Nah, that's not true at all.
From gear, to movement, to factions, to base(s) management, everything is a bit more than XCOM 2, which is both a pro and a con, depending on how you feel about micromanaging.

Adding all that creates a very different game in the same genre. It's like saying Cities: Skylines is something something Sim City.

Where XCOM 2 blows this out of the water is general presentation, tho I prefer these designs to the kind of bland XCOM 2 flavors of soldiers.
XCOM 2 character customization, alongside with WotC posters, just spoiled us. That's bananas level of making your soldiers look exactly the kind of weird fantasy you have. This is acceptable, but it doesn't come close.
XCOM2 also happens to have turn- or number-limited skills system instead of silly repeatable WP spam system. It's not acceptable that I can simply trivialize the entire mission with dash & shotgun combo. Perhaps it's my fault for not playing on Legend, where things may be different, but the fact that there is a broken strategy only preventable in highest difficulty is NOT a good sign of game design. I see dash has been brought on PP reddit several times during the beta - how have the devs still not have addressed this?

I can get over poor presentation; Xenonauts is my personal favourite XCOM-like. Maybe I can get over the repetitive and boring missions and enemy variety by arguing the devs had insufficient resources, although in that case I'd wonder if they threw entire Epic moneybag away. However, there's clear design problems and their attempts to have "bit more" than UFO Defense by incorporating XCOM2 elements failed abysmally. Even day 1 Phantom Doctrine was more fun than this - they also had broken strategy back then, but at least the dev for that game knew to unify gameplay system around single theme instead of throwing bunch of half-baked stuff in together.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Nah brahs, it's ok (tho sad) that you are disliking the game, but this is definetly not XCOM 2. Like, I wish XCOM 2 had this geoscape and these faction dynamics on WotC and combat is just something else entirely: no pods by itself make it a different game since the pod system is what the entire combat of XCOM 2 revolved around.
I am really enjoying the game so far.
When I'm more ahead I'll do a full XCOM 2 vs Phoenix Point thing, but I feel they are similar only on a very shallow level, the game itself plays very differenly aside from being the same genre.
On XCOM 2, I'm thinking a lot more in terms of alpha striking, not activating pods, never getting shot or, if inevitable, making sure everyone is on cover.
Here, so far, I am thinking in terms of what can I kill versus what can I disable, you are often being attacked by multiple angles, so you'll be flanked by *something*.
And then the out of combat is just another game entirely. I mean, yeah, there's a globe and you're going around starting missions, that's it.
-
I get the internet is negative and all that, but saying the game "failed abysmally" and that it is a bunch of half-baked stuff, that's just crazy talk.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,389
FIN
I could have sworn that here would be a lot more hype for this title as XCOM 2 got a lots of attention.

Weird.
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,950
I'm very early in the game, but enjoying it so far. It feels very different from XCOM due to the "real shooting physics" and the locational/attritional damage. Soldiers seem tougher than in XCOM but get disabled easier. Most missions have ended with one guy being in good health but unable to shoot due to a broken arm or something.
Soldiers are also NOT expendable. Unless I've missed another recruitment option, new soldiers are extremely expensive.
Soldiers also have unique semi-random skills in addition to their class skills, so every guy feels unique.
There is more micromanagement than XCOM, but it's been easy to do and streamlined so far. I'm not endlessly fiddling about with action/time-points costs like the original XCOM games. It's a nice midway point between the new and old XCOM systems.

It's not as polished as XCOM but the presentation isn't as bad as some people are making out.

My only two concerns are game balance and overpowered skill "exploits" - which is my usual concern for indie games which don't have the resources for massive playtesting. It's been fine so far but could get difficult.
The grenade launcher enemies are nasty since the AI is brutal with indirect fire. I haven't met sirens yet, but they sound very nasty.
XCOM 2 was very careful to prevent "this skill makes everything else redundant" exploits by tailoring missions so you couldn't just abuse something like squadsight/stealth. I'm not sure if Phoenix Point will have that balance. The granular fighting system is great, but it must be harder to balance than XCOM's more chess-like 1-move/1-action system.
 

jtb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,065
Is this still coming to PC Game Pass this month? I imagine MS didn't want to step on Reach MCC's toes by dropping this, but looking forward to playing it.

XCOM 2 without pods is enough to reel me in. I fucking hate the pods.
 

unfashionable

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,072
Groups of enemies that get activated all at once when one of them spot you. On xcom also means that they get a free movement to find cover. None of this exists on Phoenix point.

ah ok thanks. yeah xcom 2 sounded a bit too difficult what with the time limits so I didnt bother with that game despite being a huge gollop fan since spectrum days
 

Deleted member 22585

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,519
EU
Getting pretty positive reviews so far, other than it's a bit too much like X-Com. Which is perfectly fine with me.

Will definitely try it, looks great.
 

Orgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
218
I'm enjoying this so far, looking forward to spending a bunch of time with it this weekend.
 

Tomasdk

Banned
Apr 18, 2018
910
Watching Cohhs stream and really liking the "music" during battles. Reminds me so much of original Xcom1 music. I'll definately get the MS game pass once it's there
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,950
ah ok thanks. yeah xcom 2 sounded a bit too difficult what with the time limits so I didnt bother with that game despite being a huge gollop fan since spectrum days
Xcom 2 isn't that hard. The mission limits are enough to stop overwatch creeping* and obsessively reloading but you usually have plenty of time (and there are some ways to increase the limits) and you can mod it out completely if you want.
I think I also used a mod that shortens the timer by a couple of turns, but makes it not start until you exit stealth mode. It allows you to plan some really cool ambushes and fits the theme of the missions, with Xcom operating as a guerilla force.

The pod system always felt too artificial in Xcom and is about the only thing I disliked about it. My biggest worry was always that I'd activate another pod while trying for a flanking shot, since the difference between fighting 3 and 6 aliens means it is more important than any other tactical consideration. The stealth system in Xcom 2 helps to mitigate this though, by allowing you to do some scouting (especially in the WotC expansion, which is way more than a DLC mission pack).

Phoenix Point seems good to me so far, but if you haven't played Xcom 2, I can't recommend paying full price for this new release (i.e probably a bit buggy) when you could get the fully patched, mod-supported and optimised Xcom 2 War of the Chosen + All DLC package for less money.

* where you do nothing each turn except move one guy and overwatch everyone, to ensure you maximise your available actions in case you discover an alien.
 

Uthred

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
Ran into a few annoying bugs and the lack of what feels like basic stuff is a bit off putting. I might leave it till a few updates hit before continuing.

Even day 1 Phantom Doctrine was more fun than this - they also had broken strategy back then, but at least the dev for that game knew to unify gameplay system around single theme instead of throwing bunch of half-baked stuff in together.

Sorry for the tangent, how is Phantom Doctrine these days do you know?
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,466
ah ok thanks. yeah xcom 2 sounded a bit too difficult what with the time limits so I didnt bother with that game despite being a huge gollop fan since spectrum days
Oh god, you did miss out on a masterpiece only for some ill conceived prejudice.

No one sucks at these kind of games, it's all RNG fault, you can repeat to yourself while rocking back and forth in fetal position.
You are so comically wrong. No one who's any good at these games relies on rolling dices and crossing fingers and his main strategy.
That's why you have people who can reliably curb-stomp these campaigns at the hardest settings and people who cry at the first miss and give up while playing on easy.
 

Uthred

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
Never heard of him. But its hard to take rhetoric like "It's a giant step backwards from XCOM" seriously.
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,466
Never heard of him. But its hard to take rhetoric like "It's a giant step backwards from XCOM" seriously.
Why? From what I've seen playing the alpha and watching a couple of streamers playing this release I'm incline to agree with him.

I already said in few months ago: I'd be surprised if PP would match the first Fireaxis XCOM in quality, let alone come anywhere near close to what they achieved with XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
when one of the biggest XCOM personalities hates your game there's not going to be a whole lot of hype.



Yep, the best kind of recommendation:
• It is not worth your HDD space
• Everything is bad
• Launch product is worse than Beta
• Step backwards from Xcom

How about we wait for the people putting some effort into playing the actual game and writing a critique/review material instead of listening to the demagogue.
 

catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
Why? From what I've seen playing the alpha and watching a couple of streamers playing this release I'm incline to agree with him.

I already said in few months ago: I'd be surprised if PP would match the first Fireaxis XCOM in quality, let alone come anywhere near close to what they achieved with XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen.

i'm not super excited about PP but its ok to have more than one tactics game out, which do different things, even if they have kinda similar presentation. Hard to see how an action point based strategy game can be called a "step back" (or step anywhere!) from a totally different kind of game.
 

Deleted member 28523

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,911
Yep, the best kind of recommendation:
• It is not worth your HDD space
• Everything is bad
• Launch product is worse than Beta
• Step backwards from Xcom

How about we wait for the people putting some effort into playing the actual game and writing a critique/review material instead of listening to the demagogue.

he's played the game multiple times on stream over the past year if you want his full impressions
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
he's played the game multiple times on stream over the past year if you want his full impressions

No thanks. I would rather listen to the people who have the mental capacity of evaluating the game on the full spectrum.

When reviews are around 80, and the twitter person is claiming it is not worth your HDD space, you should not have any difficulty parsing who is a sensationalist.
 

Deleted member 28523

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,911
No thanks. I would rather listen to the people who have the mental capacity of evaluating the game on the full spectrum.

When reviews are around 80, and the twitter person is claiming it is not worth your HDD space, you should not have any difficulty parsing who is a sensationalist.

ok bud. it's going to be fine. he can not like a game you like.
 

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,292
i'm not super excited about PP but its ok to have more than one tactics game out, which do different things, even if they have kinda similar presentation. Hard to see how an action point based strategy game can be called a "step back" (or step anywhere!) from a totally different kind of game.

But people are already open to different XCOM-likes.

Everyone seemed to love Mutant Year Zero and Mario + Rabbids.
 

Uthred

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
Why? From what I've seen playing the alpha and watching a couple of streamers playing this release I'm incline to agree with him.

I already said in few months ago: I'd be surprised if PP would match the first Fireaxis XCOM in quality, let alone come anywhere near close to what they achieved with XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen.

Because it presumes that XCOM is the pinnacle that all other games should emulate. I really like Firaxis' modern XCOM games but they are part of the genre, they aren't the ideal form of it. PP is clearly heavily inspired by them but it's doing its own thing and thats fine. It's not trying to be XCOM and XCOM isnt the only way the genre can evolve so saying its a step back from it is foolish.
 

Grimsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,259
No thanks. I would rather listen to the people who have the mental capacity of evaluating the game on the full spectrum.

When reviews are around 80, and the twitter person is claiming it is not worth your HDD space, you should not have any difficulty parsing who is a sensationalist.


You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Beagle's opinion on PP is a lot more valuable than 99% of reviewers who play these games once in a rush to meet deadlines.

If you plan on playing PP once casually, sure, go with the reviews.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Beagle's opinion on PP is a lot more valuable than 99% of reviewers who play these games once in a rush to meet deadlines.

If you plan on playing PP once casually, sure, go with the reviews.

Yeah, that is the plan.

And if you think there is value in this game for players like me, then you cannot agree with the conclusion that it is a waste of HDD space.

Not to mention, how do you write that the game is worse than Beta and expect others to take your opinion seriously? You watch this person's content, what were his arguments for it?
 

Ripcord

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,768
Wow, I'm having a way different experience with this game than a lot of people out there I guess.

I'm really loving it and the comparison between this and the XCOM reboots in my mind has only faded more and more as I've gotten deeper in. I love that the mobs have interchangeable parts that makes them different enough that I actually have to pay attention. Same with being able to disable specific abilities through targeted shots. I'm also having a lot more luck playing this like I played the original XCOM(s) as opposed to the reboots when it comes to creating firelines through cover/walls/obstructions. I'm still digging the vehicles but they're crazy. At first I thought they were ridiculously overpowered, until I started running into enemies that seem super overpowered without them. Heh.

XCOM is my favorite series of all time, full disclosure. Maybe I'm biased? I dunno. I've put hundreds of hours into each entry in the series and it looks like PP is gonna be the same thing for me, if not even more because of the amount of depth it's bringing to the table. Can't tell ya how hype I am that multiple bases are a thing again. Lol.
 

Uthred

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Beagle's opinion on PP is a lot more valuable than 99% of reviewers who play these games once in a rush to meet deadlines.

If you plan on playing PP once casually, sure, go with the reviews.

Maybe his expanded opinion might have some value. But there is zero value in, clearly sensationalist, tweets about how it isn't worth the HD space. He also has a clear, and in fairness to him an explicity, bias.
 

Exposure

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,653
Yep, the best kind of recommendation:
• It is not worth your HDD space
• Everything is bad
• Launch product is worse than Beta
• Step backwards from Xcom

How about we wait for the people putting some effort into playing the actual game and writing a critique/review material instead of listening to the demagogue.
I mean, he played it repeatedly over the backer builds and gave it another long stream shot with the release copy he had.

At the end of the day the devs never solved the issue he had with it, and what I'm having with it, which is that the game just kinda flat out sucks at actually informing you what your options are, or otherwise really felt like a very unique way of doing a thing was the Correct (tm) thing to do even when you step back and realize it creates a lot of issues.

I wasn't expecting a carbon copy of Firaxis's games, but a really neat thing about Firaxis's games is that there's a lot of slick design choices designed to make sure you actually understand what you can do with your given tools at a rapid pace.

Meanwhile Phoenix Point honestly just has a bunch of issues that seem to be the result of the only testers being people already experienced with the game:

1) The game doesn't tell you how much damage bashing with a particular item does, so the only way you're gonna find out that it is wildly different depending on item with your Strength only changing it up a bit is when you actually try it out for the first time and hear *DINK* of 0 damage. It was dumb when LW2 had a bunch of stuff that you could only find out via squad wipe, it's still dumb when Phoenix Point does it.

2) The LOS indicator lies incredibly badly at times.
  • I've come to the realization that it seems to assume the soldier is using a rifle even if they're a Heavy currently wielding their cannon. This is a bit of a problem when some types of cover can end up blocking a Heavy from using a cannon shot at their current position.
  • It also seems to be far more lenient with how it assumes a soldier will be able to step out from cover in order to take a shot. Again, bit of a problem when it turns out the cover you chose to move to does not allow a soldier to step out from cover in order to take a shot.
3) I'm still confused what the free aiming system as designed is supposed to bring to the table.
  • It's not great for demolishing cover enemies are using because you have to 100% eyeball it when you do so: better hope everybody's using unique cover and you're not the kind of person who can lose track of things if you're trying to look for one specific piece of scrap metal cover that's big enough to cover up even the heaviest enemies.
  • It still feels like something you have to do instead of something you can do because the fact that everybody aims at center mass by default kinda sucks when the game is in that zone where letting enemies live longer than they need to is a very bad idea.
  • And sometimes it doesn't even stop the situation that the whole system is supposed to solve in the first place.
4) The fact that your ability to recruit additional people is 100% dependent on RNG because it depends on havens is complete BS with how the battlescape is designed.
  • To be clear: the way the game works is that you need to be able to build up your relationship with havens so you can recruit people from them for soldier replacements.
  • You can only do this with havens you have a high enough relationship with, and if they actually have the facilities required to produce recruits.
  • It is 100% RNG on how many of those kind of havens will spawn. Now, this wouldn't be that bad of an game mechanic if it was like nuCOM where you have highly capable supersoldiers that you want to keep alive as much as possible.
  • By all accounts though, especially from looking at the relatively boring perk trees and how easy they level up, this is supposed to be a game ala oldCOM where the equipment you gave them matters a lot more than the meat inside, and the game's willing to throw sudden walls of difficulty at you to introduce new threats.
  • In oldCOM, this worked just fine because the Geoscape there was 100% setup to allow meat grinder situations if needed.
  • In Phoenix Point however, especially at higher difficulties, this will very well end at a squad wipe if you're not careful or if it's your first encounter with how return fire works in the game on enemies because return fire is a completely broken skill with how it interacts with the game's mechanics.
  • Because of this, it is quite possible, through no fault of your own, to be unable to actually recover from a squad wipe because the game will simply never give you the option to even attempt to do so.
5) Actually no I'm going make Return Fire it's own separate bullet point, because it is just completely not fun to fight against:
  • The way it works is that it gives reaction fire to enemies after someone takes a hostile action against a unit on your team. (or the AI's team if you're fighting them).
  • See, the thing is, it gives reaction fire that kicks in while the enemy is still in its firing animation. Which is basically a copy of how nuCOM's animations work, exposing their body a lot.
  • In nuCOM, this is fine, because XCOM's animations are just visual flair: everything damage wise is working on its own seperate system that doesn't care how the animations are trying to visualize what it's doing.
  • In Phoenix Point, however, this means that any reaction fire shots from Return Fire occurs while the person being shot at is most exposed. Meaning that once you're up against return fire enemies, the best thing to do is not take any offensive actions because you will just get your soldier lighted up if you don't have perfect cover to use.
  • This is compounded by the fact that return fire is a very silly implementation of the reaction fire rules of oldCOM, because it removes element sfrom what was required in oldCOM.
    • Specifically, in oldCOM, a unit's ability to use reaction fire was greatly influenced by how much Time Units they had remaining: if a unit expended all its time units, it could never reaction fire at all. This meant that you could get an intuitive idea of how likely your unit could get shot in the face if you knew how much a specific unit had acted during a turn, and be able to gauge whether you could risk it or not. In addition, it was also dependent on the reactions stat of a particular unit: so some units may have been ace crackshots, others were more bad surprises every once in a while.
    • This element is removed from Return Fire in Phoenix Point, and reduced to just the LOS check and the remaining ammo check. There's not even an element of "can only happen once per turn/per enemy/etc" to at least try mollifying how often it can happen, so instead we're left with "return fire enemies are basically automatic response turrets until they finally kick the bucket or lose their weapons".

Like I really wanted to like this game, and I'm willing to put up with a bunch of jank (shoot, I liked Phantom Doctrine for all its warts), but this game just has so many flaws that aren't just jank: like a good chunk of this needs serious work on it still or honestly just a rework entirely because I do not see how some of these things are supposed to be fun.

Shoot, I do like the non-combat parts of the game: I think they nail the aesthetic they're going for and the general XCOM-apocalypse inspired direction of the Geoscape in terms of having to deal with three factions that 100% actually despise each other instead of just not liking each other even as the actual alien apocalypse is approaching, but it's just not enough to keep this game fun for me in its current state.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Return fire left me a very bad taste when I pull out my pistol at someone, shot them 4 times and they returned fire me 4 times with a superior weapon killing me... as a reaction to me shooting at them. I'll agree it's not a fun mechanic right now.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,389
FIN
Release sounds pretty rough if basing view on opinions of those who have gone HC on XCOM 2 with hundreds of hours.

AdmiralBahroo put about 6h into Phoenix last night and came out with hard "Meh". Today he booted XCOM 2 back up. Apparently game has quite a lot bugs and rough edges leading to some weird behaviors.

Hopefully devs have some patches coming in hot.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Xcom 2 is one of the greatest games ever made. Comparisons to it would always hurt this game, but then, they use the xcom name a lot on their marketing campaign, I don't know.
I have over 2000 hours of xcom 2 and I am enjoying the game, I will agree with a lot of criticism here, but most of it is little stuff that here and there add up to a lot less of what this game could have been.
It is a very severe case of "it is not polished" to me.

That said, I can't possibly come close to saying is garbage or anything like that. That's still crazy talk to me.
 

Charsace

Chicken Chaser
Banned
Nov 22, 2017
2,845
Xcom 2 is one of the greatest games ever made. Comparisons to it would always hurt this game, but then, they use the xcom name a lot on their marketing campaign, I don't know.
I have over 2000 hours of xcom 2 and I am enjoying the game, I will agree with a lot of criticism here, but most of it is little stuff that here and there add up to a lot less of what this game could have been.
It is a very severe case of "it is not polished" to me.

That said, I can't possibly come close to saying is garbage or anything like that. That's still crazy talk to me.
The PP creator creates the original xcom that's why he uses the name a lot.
 

Soggoth

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,293
So, basically I should wait for Steam release in GOTY format with all the DLCs? Gotcha, thanks :)
 

Fishook

Member
Dec 20, 2017
808
I enjoyed what I played of it for a couple of hours yesterday, but it pretty rough in places. Since I am a backer I going to wait till all DLC,s are released before a full play through. Developers aren't encouraging me buy one anymore unless it's a fairly polished and unique experience.