Plant workers told to attend Trump rally or not get overtime pay.

[danm999]

So if you don't want to go to the rally you lose out on a day's work, and also another day's work is devalued because you aren't hitting overtime hours. All in a country where the vast majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

And you don't get lunch. Absolutely fucked.

 

[Jakenbakin]

That little difference you mention of that piece of shit being the "trainer" is a huge difference. That they justify it by calling it a work training session doesn't make it the truth. They are being forced to attend a Trump rally or lose a day's pay, end of story. Your position is youre fine with an employer forcing you to politically support a candidate. Cool.

Click to shrink...

No you know damn well that isn't my position, and that my position is that no, in fact, nobody was forced, coerced, threatened, reprimanded, terminated, written up, had their pay docked, blackmailed, bribed or any combination of any of these things. And they absolutely have the authority to deem this a work session, it was effectively no different than a conference that hosted a lecture from someone that is LITERALLY the highest authority on the matter.

I've been disingenuously represented by almost everyone in this thread for posting a viewpoint that challenged the overwhelming rage over a story that in my opinion has objectionable content in the way the narrative is being framed, so you guys go ahead and enjoy the rest of this thread. I tried to say what I wanted, but I'm going to drop it because this is personally a frustrating experience for me and the tone of some posts has become somewhat hostile ✌️

 

[Dali]

No you know damn well that isn't my position, and that my position is that no, in fact, nobody was forced, coerced, threatened, reprimanded, terminated, written up, had their pay docked, blackmailed, bribed or any combination of any of these things. And they absolutely have the authority to deem this a work session, it was effectively no different than a conference that hosted a lecture from someone that is LITERALLY the highest authority on the matter.

I've been disingenuously represented by almost everyone in this thread for posting a viewpoint that challenged the overwhelming rage over a story that in my opinion has objectionable content in the way the narrative is being framed, so you guys go ahead and enjoy the rest of this thread. I tried to say what I wanted, but I'm going to drop it because this is personally a frustrating experience for me and the tone of some posts has become somewhat hostile ✌

Click to shrink...

You've been disengenuously representing your position yourself. On what planet is a day suspension without pay unless you attend a Trump rally not coercion? You're either playing dense or are actually dense. A Trump rally is 100% a political event and in no way shape or form should be categorized as training. In what way is he training petroleum factory workers? He hits on his political talking points and if you are forced to be there, lest you lose a valuable day's pay, then you are being forced into supporting him.

 

[Icemonk191]

No you know damn well that isn't my position, and that my position is that no, in fact, nobody was forced, coerced, threatened, reprimanded, terminated, written up, had their pay docked, blackmailed, bribed or any combination of any of these things. And they absolutely have the authority to deem this a work session, it was effectively no different than a conference that hosted a lecture from someone that is LITERALLY the highest authority on the matter.

I've been disingenuously represented by almost everyone in this thread for posting a viewpoint that challenged the overwhelming rage over a story that in my opinion has objectionable content in the way the narrative is being framed, so you guys go ahead and enjoy the rest of this thread. I tried to say what I wanted, but I'm going to drop it because this is personally a frustrating experience for me and the tone of some posts has become somewhat hostile ✌

Click to shrink...

Your posts were stupid and you made everyone else stupider by posting them.

 

[danm999]

No you know damn well that isn't my position, and that my position is that no, in fact, nobody was forced, coerced, threatened, reprimanded, terminated, written up, had their pay docked, blackmailed, bribed or any combination of any of these things. And they absolutely have the authority to deem this a work session, it was effectively no different than a conference that hosted a lecture from someone that is LITERALLY the highest authority on the matter.

Click to shrink...

Telling someone they'll have their effective pay cut is textbook coercion. This is a dreadful post.

 

[Jakenbakin]

You know what some of you guys can seriously reflect on your own behavior in discourse. I see a lot of people complain about aggressive politics and the state it's come to, but despite being dogpiled for a dissenting point of view I respectfully maintained my position, and did not deviate from a neutral tone (even though I could respond in mind to many attacks on eg my intelligence, when people clearly use words they do not know the meaning of, or the rights businesses or people are afforded).

I even calmly summed up by point of view, politely pointed out that I now would like to leave the discussion because it's personally becoming overwhelming to be repeatedly attacked and blatantly misrepresented, and offered a respectful goodbye.

Immediately followed by two posters personally attacking me.

So let me be clear, because this is supposedly one of those issues people act like they care about around here. I made a statement, and perhaps I should not have because it's obviously not just a dissenting one, but one that I have been incapable of expressing judging by the fact that not one person has responded in a manner that shows they understood what I said. But I would kindly like to ask if it is in your powers, please stop quoting me

 

[Link]

No you know damn well that isn't my position, and that my position is that no, in fact, nobody was forced, coerced, threatened, reprimanded, terminated, written up, had their pay docked, blackmailed, bribed or any combination of any of these things. And they absolutely have the authority to deem this a work session, it was effectively no different than a conference that hosted a lecture from someone that is LITERALLY the highest authority on the matter.

I've been disingenuously represented by almost everyone in this thread for posting a viewpoint that challenged the overwhelming rage over a story that in my opinion has objectionable content in the way the narrative is being framed, so you guys go ahead and enjoy the rest of this thread. I tried to say what I wanted, but I'm going to drop it because this is personally a frustrating experience for me and the tone of some posts has become somewhat hostile ✌

Click to shrink...

This is a whole load of disingenuous bullshit. You don't deserve anything besides frustrated hostility.

 

[Username1198]

Lmao trump is such a loser.

Day after day, tweet after tweet, he shows his bare ass and his followers bury their faces in his fat orange crack and smile.

If you are defending trump and his absolute shit policies and actions, you are a fuckin loser as well. Fuck off aready and leave everyone else alone.

LOSERS

 

[danm999]

I dunno, maybe politics seem bad now because for the longest time tone has been prioritised over content, and finally that's changing.

Like the nastiest most awful shit is papered over because people use nice words. Maybe that's why terrible things repeatedly happen and nothing ever gets better.

 

[Byakuya769]

So if you don't want to go to the rally you lose out on a day's work, and also another day's work is devalued because you aren't hitting overtime hours. All in a country where the vast majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

And you don't get lunch. Absolutely fucked.

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That's my read of it. Not sure why the title got changed.

 

[Deleted member 8257]

No you know damn well that isn't my position, and that my position is that no, in fact, nobody was forced, coerced, threatened, reprimanded, terminated, written up, had their pay docked, blackmailed, bribed or any combination of any of these things. And they absolutely have the authority to deem this a work session, it was effectively no different than a conference that hosted a lecture from someone that is LITERALLY the highest authority on the matter.

I've been disingenuously represented by almost everyone in this thread for posting a viewpoint that challenged the overwhelming rage over a story that in my opinion has objectionable content in the way the narrative is being framed, so you guys go ahead and enjoy the rest of this thread. I tried to say what I wanted, but I'm going to drop it because this is personally a frustrating experience for me and the tone of some posts has become somewhat hostile ✌

Click to shrink...

If you're told you better attend this meeting or rally or whatever you wanna call it, or otherwise use your PTO or pay, that is coercion. If I skip a conference with my CEO, I can't be forced to take PTO. That is a violation.

 

[jay]

The case against polite discourse: absurd positions that people argue deserve equal consideration because anything else would be uncivil.

 

[Strike]

Man, that's shitty.

 

[Dant21]

The most interesting part about this whole thing is that it was agreed to by union leaders, which should be having the workers rights in mind.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, this gets me just as much as the coercion through pay. What's the point of having a union if they care no more for your wellbeing and fair treatment than your bosses do?

 

[Grifter]

Imagine your social studies textbook having a paragraph on an axis country withholding income from blue collar workers for missing their PM's rally.

 

[Billfisto]

No you know damn well that isn't my position, and that my position is that no, in fact, nobody was forced, coerced, threatened, reprimanded, terminated, written up, had their pay docked, blackmailed, bribed or any combination of any of these things. And they absolutely have the authority to deem this a work session, it was effectively no different than a conference that hosted a lecture from someone that is LITERALLY the highest authority on the matter.

Click to shrink...

This is stupid.

I've been disingenuously represented by almost everyone in this thread for posting a viewpoint that challenged the overwhelming rage over a story that in my opinion has objectionable content in the way the narrative is being framed, so you guys go ahead and enjoy the rest of this thread. I tried to say what I wanted, but I'm going to drop it because this is personally a frustrating experience for me and the tone of some posts has become somewhat hostile ✌

Click to shrink...

This is also stupid.

You know what some of you guys can seriously reflect on your own behavior in discourse. I see a lot of people complain about aggressive politics and the state it's come to, but despite being dogpiled for a dissenting point of view I respectfully maintained my position, and did not deviate from a neutral tone (even though I could respond in mind to many attacks on eg my intelligence, when people clearly use words they do not know the meaning of, or the rights businesses or people are afforded).

I even calmly summed up by point of view, politely pointed out that I now would like to leave the discussion because it's personally becoming overwhelming to be repeatedly attacked and blatantly misrepresented, and offered a respectful goodbye.

Immediately followed by two posters personally attacking me.

So let me be clear, because this is supposedly one of those issues people act like they care about around here. I made a statement, and perhaps I should not have because it's obviously not just a dissenting one, but one that I have been incapable of expressing judging by the fact that not one person has responded in a manner that shows they understood what I said. But I would kindly like to ask if it is in your powers, please stop quoting me

Click to shrink...

Good lord this is stupid.

People aren't dragging you because you have a dissenting opinion. People are dragging you because your opinion is weird and malformed and you're not basing it on reality, and you keep insisting it's great and valid, and when people point out the flaws in it you resort to whining about "polite discourse".

 

[RedVejigante]

Oh, so now Trump is also a trainer on the finer points of the petrochemical industry? Real Renaissance man, that one.

 

[Baccus]

The US is officially a banana republic.

 

[Deleted member 8257]

You know what some of you guys can seriously reflect on your own behavior in discourse. I see a lot of people complain about aggressive politics and the state it's come to, but despite being dogpiled for a dissenting point of view I respectfully maintained my position, and did not deviate from a neutral tone (even though I could respond in mind to many attacks on eg my intelligence, when people clearly use words they do not know the meaning of, or the rights businesses or people are afforded).

I even calmly summed up by point of view, politely pointed out that I now would like to leave the discussion because it's personally becoming overwhelming to be repeatedly attacked and blatantly misrepresented, and offered a respectful goodbye.

Immediately followed by two posters personally attacking me.

So let me be clear, because this is supposedly one of those issues people act like they care about around here. I made a statement, and perhaps I should not have because it's obviously not just a dissenting one, but one that I have been incapable of expressing judging by the fact that not one person has responded in a manner that shows they understood what I said. But I would kindly like to ask if it is in your powers, please stop quoting me

Click to shrink...

I'll be gentle. You need to understand that we are frustrated with the ideas and reasoning you presented, not with you personally. The answer is clear as day to us, but to us it looks like you are still calling it a giraffe when it walks and quacks like a duck. You need to divorce the reactions from your self. They are reactions to your questionable reasoning.

 

[Baji Boxer]

No you know damn well that isn't my position, and that my position is that no, in fact, nobody was forced, coerced, threatened, reprimanded, terminated, written up, had their pay docked, blackmailed, bribed or any combination of any of these things. And they absolutely have the authority to deem this a work session, it was effectively no different than a conference that hosted a lecture from someone that is LITERALLY the highest authority on the matter.

I've been disingenuously represented by almost everyone in this thread for posting a viewpoint that challenged the overwhelming rage over a story that in my opinion has objectionable content in the way the narrative is being framed, so you guys go ahead and enjoy the rest of this thread. I tried to say what I wanted, but I'm going to drop it because this is personally a frustrating experience for me and the tone of some posts has become somewhat hostile ✌

Click to shrink...

The US is officially a banana republic.

Click to shrink...

I disagree with Jakenbakin's reasoning on why it's ok (this is absolutely coercion) , but do agree in part in that this is allowed for buisinesses to do. This isn't the first time this has come up either. Citizens United really fucked up rules concerning these things. It's a gray area where even if it could be interpreted as a violation, no complaint will ever be ruled against the company due to the FEC's strictly bipartisan make up, and the much greater 1st ammendment protections the CU ruling gave to buisinesses to the detriment of employees.

Many point to high-profile decisions by the FEC to close two complaints involving Murray Energy. The complaints alleged the Ohio-based coal mining company mandated that workers attend a Mitt Romney rally during 2012 - images of miners standing behind the shirt-sleeved GOP nominee were later used in Romney advertisements -- as well as that the company pressured workers to make donations to the company's political action committee, reimbursing them with bonuses.

In both cases, the commissioners deadlocked along party lines, closing the complaints without taking any action. (In a company statement emailed by a spokesperson, Murray Energy said it was pleased the FEC ruled there were "no issues;" the company and its CEO "consider these matters closed, and will continue to vigorously exercise their rights to participate in the political process as the law allows.")

Some think the FEC's deadlocked response could prompt some companies to push the envelope. "When you have ... the compliance people and the outside lawyers saying, 'Look, be careful here, stay well within the line,' and then they see a case like the Murray case," says Noble, "they'll be like, 'Why are we being so conservative about this? Why don't we get more aggressive?"

Click to shrink...

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-boss-politics-at-work-20161021-story.html

 

[Poltergust]

Even disregarding the ethical concerns of coercing your workforce to attend a political rally that they may not align with at the risk of losing out on pay, this sort of thing can create internal divisions within the company if some people did indeed decide to not attend it. Politics is typically not discussed at work for a reason. Can you imagine the discord this can sow between employees of different ideologies?

"Hey, what did you think of the rally? Pretty great, huh?"
"Oh, I didn't go. I can't stand that guy. It just wasn't worth it to me."
"So you think you're better than the rest of us, huh?"

There is absolutely no benefit to foisting this onto your workforce.

 

[Deleted member 198]

You know what some of you guys can seriously reflect on your own behavior in discourse. I see a lot of people complain about aggressive politics and the state it's come to, but despite being dogpiled for a dissenting point of view I respectfully maintained my position, and did not deviate from a neutral tone (even though I could respond in mind to many attacks on eg my intelligence, when people clearly use words they do not know the meaning of, or the rights businesses or people are afforded).

I even calmly summed up by point of view, politely pointed out that I now would like to leave the discussion because it's personally becoming overwhelming to be repeatedly attacked and blatantly misrepresented, and offered a respectful goodbye.

Immediately followed by two posters personally attacking me.

So let me be clear, because this is supposedly one of those issues people act like they care about around here. I made a statement, and perhaps I should not have because it's obviously not just a dissenting one, but one that I have been incapable of expressing judging by the fact that not one person has responded in a manner that shows they understood what I said. But I would kindly like to ask if it is in your powers, please stop quoting me

Click to shrink...

 

[Baccus]

I disagree with @Jakenbakin's reasoning on why it's ok (this is absolutely coercion) , but do agree in part in that this is allowed for buisinesses to do

Click to shrink...

And that's awful and banana republic tier. That it's permitted AND done is just disgraceful.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

This doesn't seem like a problem to me? Higher up want to show a sign of their support, they're entitled to that. The show of support means regular work is postponed for that day, so if you don't wish to partake it's a compulsory day off. If you go, since it is a work function, you will be paid for it.

Click to shrink...

Found the trump supporter

 

[CopperPuppy]

This doesn't seem like a problem to me? Higher up want to show a sign of their support, they're entitled to that. The show of support means regular work is postponed for that day, so if you don't wish to partake it's a compulsory day off. If you go, since it is a work function, you will be paid for it.

Click to shrink...

Stooge alert

Yuck

 

[VorpalNonsense]

-Do not bring lunchboxes or packs
-You will be standing through your lunch period
-Lunch is not provided
-Resistance will not be tolerated

Damn, even if you do go you get fucked.

 

[Indy in the Fridge]

You know what some of you guys can seriously reflect on your own behavior in discourse. I see a lot of people complain about aggressive politics and the state it's come to, but despite being dogpiled for a dissenting point of view I respectfully maintained my position, and did not deviate from a neutral tone (even though I could respond in mind to many attacks on eg my intelligence, when people clearly use words they do not know the meaning of, or the rights businesses or people are afforded).

I even calmly summed up by point of view, politely pointed out that I now would like to leave the discussion because it's personally becoming overwhelming to be repeatedly attacked and blatantly misrepresented, and offered a respectful goodbye.

Immediately followed by two posters personally attacking me.

So let me be clear, because this is supposedly one of those issues people act like they care about around here. I made a statement, and perhaps I should not have because it's obviously not just a dissenting one, but one that I have been incapable of expressing judging by the fact that not one person has responded in a manner that shows they understood what I said. But I would kindly like to ask if it is in your powers, please stop quoting me

Click to shrink...

Guess what guy? People can object to a dissenting opinion, regardless of how well argued it is. You're playing victim because your opinions were criticized and you deflect to cries of genuine discourse and politeness in an effort to shield your thin skin.

There is no neutral tone in this. Many of us are not fence-sitters when it comes to issues involving Trump and so you should expect a reasonable amount of pushback when you come in to the thread and argue that this is: a) not coercion and b) attending a Trump rally can be argued to be work related.

a) yes it is
b) no it cannot be

 

[Shiloh]

If this isn't illegal, it should be

 

[hoserx]

Never heard of "The Washington Press". Some of the titles of the articles they have published sound more like editorials than news.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I work in a union. I'm sure its different in Canada but they are very political. They will phone your personal phone number and send you mail to your house trying to get you to vote for a certain candidate. But no they would never in a million years try and dock pay for not attending a rally. They might try and sway you one way or another towards a certain political party but it would never come down to getting paid or not.

And isnt Trump like really anti union? Why would they want to support him?