PlayStation 5 Confirmed To Sport 8 Cores / 16 Threads CPU; Full Reveal Coming Next Year

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,979
All you need to know about the IGN personality in question, is that near the beginning of this gen Shu Yoshida responded to a tweet made in the same way one respond to someone.....who is a particularly passionate fan of some things over others

McCaffery tweet: "If Kojima does sign w/Sony as rumoured, my first thought will be: 'did Microsoft even pick up the phone & call him?"

To which Shu responded

"Hi Ryan, why would that be your first thought? Do you love MS so much?".

Link so I'm not seen to speaking out my ass.


It didn't even occur to Shu that he worked for IGN, that's how bad the tweet was. He has a history of this
That is a really distorted take on that tweet to say the least.

If anything Shu looks completely out of line here to me and even apologized for his goof.

Either way, that has nothing to do with the tweet in this thread and just seems more like some passionate fans have a problem with a person that covers Xbox stuff more than anything to me.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
11,550
Not America
A Flash game would still be limited by how fast our brain can process information and react in a given time in the game world. I don't think technology is the main factor why we haven't seen a Flash game yet. Its not like racing games don't move fast enough.


  • Isn't that just a cut scene? What am I missing there?
  • I already pointed out engine level pop in that SSD cannot fix. Again, its a distraction which is noticeable variably across different games. It would be an iterative improvement. So you could move faster in God of War while the next area loads. Thats not revelatory in my opinion.
  • I did say its a massive improvement for consoles. How much would it improve over a top end SSD paired with a powerful i7? Not a huge amount.
  • That demo is meant to illustrate just how fast new levels can be loaded from storage to RAM. The expectation is that the next gen systems will allow for (near) instantaneous fast travel between locations as well as orders of magnitude faster traversal pace (dependent on the game design).
  • I understand what you are getting at with engine level pop ins. I do think it will still be there (because computing power is finite). However, I would hypothesize that having LoDs that can be allowed to sit outside the RAM pool would allow for greater number of them per object resulting in less LoD pops. Of course, I do not know how it would play with mesh shading (which is part of nVidia at present afaik).
  • Yes, I concur. In keeping with this topic, the point I was trying to make is that the CPU will go a long way to leverage SSD solution (which again is tied to LoD system due to 'draw calls'). Of course the nature of installation of the SSD as well as its own RAM setup and Controller are still unknown (for both Sony and MS).
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,926
A Flash game would still be limited by how fast our brain can process information and react in a given time in the game world. I don't think technology is the main factor why we haven't seen a Flash game yet. Its not like racing games don't move fast enough.
It is the main reason. You can't move that fast through a world with everything around him not being able to remotely keep up. Textures would be loading in several seconds after you've got to a new point. The immersion would break instantly (and this isn't even getting into the performance). You can't really compare closed off racing games with a Flash game that would most likely be set in a huge open world.

My other examples apply either way. The devs will have to see just how strong the SSD is and then see how far they can go with it. I can only come up with examples that apply to the basic advantages that come from using a SSD. I imagine dev teams with far, far more technical knowledge than us can come up with some cool stuff.
 

DrDeckard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,029
The SOC May be more expensive than it was at ps4 launch but nothing seems that expensive when you look at industry prices.

For GDDR6, the belief I’ve seen is each chip will be $7-$8 per chip, with each chip being 2GB, 24GB would be $96. So I’d say $100ish for 16-24GBs. PS4 ram in 2013 was $100-$110

Ultra HD Blu Ray costs the same to make as Blu-ray drives so it’s likely $30 or less. It was $30 estimated for Xbox One S in 2016 after all.

SSDs at 1TB are sold at huge profits, likely triple cost, at $100-$130. So they likely cost those manufacturers $40-$60 max, and console makers will get discounts because they can order 50-100M+. So I’d expect a 1TB SSD to add $40 to the total bill, a bit more than a 500GB HDD in 2013.

I can easily see PS5 having these specs, costing $430-$450 and being sold at $399.99

8 core Zen 2 @3.2Ghz
Navi GPU @10-11TFs
16-24GB total ram. Maybe be a mixture of types
1TB SSD

I think if anything goes up it’s Dual Shock 5, likely going from $18ish in 2013 to $25-$30 with haptics, etc, and sold for $69.99 like SwitchPro
I think you could be more or less on the money here. The only point I'm not sure about is a 1TB SSD. I think that's not going to happen, unless it's a cheap none nand or something.

I can see them going for a caching options? similar to optane. Like 128GB SSD with a 1tb HDD as standard? they cache the game into the SSD strategically?
 

Soprano

Member
Oct 28, 2017
790
The conversation wasn't about the Adaptive Triggers, it was about the Haptic Feedback motors.

Two completely different things and I definitely didn't confuse the two.

The I don't think anyone else has done a type of 'force feedback' with controller triggers before, so that should be pretty damn cool in itself.
I mentioned haptic feedback but not the way XBO does it. I know XBO has rumble triggers but there's no resistance to them. That's why i mentioned different types of resistance , and the way it feels, in my post.

So in a game with a bow and arrow, does it feel different? Do guns feel different on the trigger? Because if you're just saying there's different intensities of rumble (they are rumble triggers after all) it is not the same as having different levels of resistance. That is the key, trigger resistance and different levels of rumble are absolutely not the same thing. I'm sure the scarlet controller will have resistive triggers, MS always makes great controllers. But rumble triggers are not resistive triggers
Sony has their own patents for this, so it may not be licensed from Immersion.

We have enough detail to know how it differs from ‘rumble triggers’. Rumble (vibration in the trigger.but no change in its travel behaviour) and actual force feedback (a change in how the trigger travels, or doesn’t travel) are two different things. What the Wired article describes in terms of the triggers is more like the latter.

I do expect Microsoft to have the same in the next Xbox controller - they filed their own patent, iirc, around actual force feedback in triggers. Hopefully anyway, because it would likely help increase good application in multiplat games.
This is my understanding of how it works and what i was talking about. XBO controller doesn't do this.
 

TheModestGun

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,618
Does anyone think its weird sony is touting things for ps5 that were already done elsewhere?

3D audio = DolbyAtmos/WindowsSonic 2016 XBO

No? Also, this is them dripfeeding basic info about the console. I think you’d be mistaken if there aren’t any more big things to announce about the system that will be revealed at the actual reveal event.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,979
I mentioned haptic feedback but not the way XBO does it. I know XBO has rumble triggers but there's no resistance to them. That's why i mentioned different types of resistance , and the way it feels, in my post.
Okay, but you guys were responding to a tweet talking about Rumble Triggers/Haptic Feedback/Impulse Triggers and you said Xbox doesn't have that when it does; that is one of the features he was talking about that they're now adding to the PS5 controller.

Adaptive Resistance is what you are referring to with the force programmable feedback/tension trigger tech and that is something else entirely and not what that tweet was about. FWIW, they'll both likely end up with similar takes on this new controller feature; my hope is that since they'll both have similar things it becomes something of an industry standard and we see it picked up in multiplats and even make it's way to PC controller feature set (I think only on Forza and Tomb Raider used it there).
 

Soprano

Member
Oct 28, 2017
790
Okay, but you guys were responding to a tweet talking about Rumble Triggers/Haptic Feedback/Impulse Triggers and you said Xbox doesn't have that when it does; that is one of the features he was talking about that they're now adding to the PS5 controller.

Adaptive Resistance is what you are referring to with the force programmable feedback/tension trigger tech and that is something else entirely and not what that tweet was about. FWIW, they'll both likely end up with similar takes on this new controller feature; my hope is that since they'll both have similar things it becomes something of an industry standard and we see it picked up in multiplats and even make it's way to PC controller feature set (I think only on Forza and Tomb Raider used it there).

It's still strange he only mentioned haptic feedback and not rest of the controller's features. I take it he's confused, like everyone else is apparently, about those specific differences the PS5 controller has.
 

Tora

Member
Jun 17, 2018
1,060
What kind of bus speed does 8k need to have for the GPU/RAM? Anyone know?
For instance the gtx 1070 can play games at 4k but at 30 or lower FPS due to limitations on memory speeds.
Wtf is this going to use?
This ain't playing 8k games lol

Sony said 8k streaming, they did a really good job of being ambiguous and confusing enough to make people think of 8k gaming.

I am curious though at your question :P
 

KCsoLucky

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,158
That is a really distorted take on that tweet to say the least.

If anything Shu looks completely out of line here to me and even apologized for his goof.

Either way, that has nothing to do with the tweet in this thread and just seems more like some passionate fans have a problem with a person that covers Xbox stuff more than anything to me.
It has more to do with his coverage seeming to be more angled at getting himself a job at Microsoft(complete with almost begging for one on Twitter), similar to how Audrey Drake was(who got her job) and other notables such as Greg Miller/Colin Moriarty, Arthur Gies, etc. Some of it is certainly playing to their fanbases, but still ridiculous, so when people see his name they will assume the worst.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,926
Can someone help me understand the benefits of hardware based ray tracing for devs?
I'm sure someone with more knowledge on the topic can go into way more detail, but one of the basic benefits deals with lighting in games. Devs can end up spending a lot of time trying to get baked lighting correct, for example. With RT, they won't have to spend nearly as much time with it. That then means there is more time that can be spent on something else and so on.

While I do think we will get some games that have some really nice RT implementation for our visual pleasure, I think the biggest gain from RT is how it will help with game development all around by making hassles during development much less of a hassle. That reduces stuff like delays, cut content, etc...
 

Turrican3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
Italy
  • Significant reduction in load times
  • Notably bigger environments
  • Notably improved streaming system
  • Consequently significantly better Level of Detail (LoD) management systems i.e. less pop ins.
  • Smaller game sizes due to the lack of data duplication (except the overall size of big budget games would probably be bigger due to increased resolutions of texture assets)
  • Fixed HW means fixed specs (within margin of error tolerance) means devs do not ever have to worry about end user disrupting their optimized works
It is likely I'm 100% wrong on this but I still don't buy all of those Sony promises.

I mean, an SSD is obviously going to be faster than a 5400 rpm 2.5" mechanical HD but we aren't talking about a system upgrade, this is the default configuration of a far (?) more powerful specced hardware.

So I have to wonder by which extent the increased load (more RAM, higher detail textures, etc) is going to erode the new, improved baseline average data transfer speed.

If I had to guess, I would say we're likely going to see more significant improvements on smaller, less complex games (which in and by itself would be a little bit paradoxical IMHO considering Sony - and MS - would like us to believe this is a game changer for their average AAA-sized mega production)
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
11,550
Not America
It is likely I'm 100% wrong on this but I still don't buy all of those Sony promises.

I mean, an SSD is obviously going to be faster than a 5400 rpm 2.5" mechanical HD but we aren't talking about a system upgrade, this is the default configuration of a far (?) more powerful specced hardware.

So I have to wonder by which extent the increased load (more RAM, higher detail textures, etc) is going to erode the new, improved baseline average data transfer speed.

If I had to guess, I would say we're likely going to see more significant improvements on smaller, less complex games (which in and by itself would be a little bit paradoxical IMHO considering Sony - and MS - would like us to believe this is a game changer for their average AAA-sized mega production)
My post applies to both next gen system. Furthermore, it is a system level upgrade, albeit not good as and in place of an unrealistic GDDR6 RAM amount such as 128GB (16x current gen trend).

And yes, the proof is in the pudding.

As for the potential counterweight to the improvement, asset sizes are the key given many of the textures may end up having 4K resolution. However, given we have seen X deal relatively well with higher resolution textures for a fair few games in comparison to other system regarding loading times, the next systems should be able to do much better with orders of magnitude better SSD & CPUs.
 

Pottuvoi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,414
Can someone help me understand the benefits of hardware based ray tracing for devs?
A reasonably fast way to sample the polygonal world from any point in the world toward any direction.
You can sample just an occlusion, return location in polygon and shade it, shoot another rays from the hit location etc. (Actually, you can also sample volumes, solids, fractals etc.. some need custom compute shaders for intersection so not necessary hardware accelerated.)

In rasterization you sample world mainly from one location, the camera.
Any new location from which you sample you need to do lot of work before you can actually sample the surrounding and even then in limited way. (Basically smaller than 120 degree pyramid in ordered sample pattern.)

In RT you can sample in arbitrary fashion and depending on RT hardware you can change things like LoD models per pixel if needed. (Or time, source location, direction.. etc.)
Also there is no limit where to you store the information, textures, vertexes and so on.

Even if it is not very fast, there will be uses for it. (Could be nice for fitting lights to forward/deferred tiled lighting methods to get tight light lists and so on.)
Could also be possible to refine animations, collisions etc.
 
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Turrican3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
Italy
My post applies to both next gen system. Furthermore, it is a system level upgrade, albeit not good as and in place of an unrealistic GDDR6 RAM amount such as 128GB (16x current gen trend).

And yes, the proof is in the pudding.

As for the potential counterweight to the improvement, asset sizes are the key given many of the textures may end up having 4K resolution. However, given we have seen X deal relatively well with higher resolution textures for a fair few games in comparison to other system regarding loading times, the next systems should be able to do much better with orders of magnitude better SSD & CPUs.
I apologize for not being very clear in my post (both language and time issues) so I will try to do better now.

Regarding "system level upgrade" my point was (meant to be) that I do believe we're dealing, at least partly, with an apples to oranges comparison: since there's not going to be any non-SSD equipped PS5/XB2 and, at the same time, those systems have HW that is more powerful than their predecessors, how do we actually measure improvements?

Had we got, let's say, a base PS5 with a mechanical HDD it would have been an easy task: pick game XYZ, take a couple of measurements vs the SSD-equipped one and we're done.

I think the best case scenario is that we will be able to make such comparisons with the inevitable remasters. But other than that? *shrugs*

I also have to ask for clarification (honest question, as I do not follow that closely hardware-related news), you said we're having "orders of magnitude better", as in at least 100 times faster?! Is that really on the table, I mean not in theoretical but actual, real world performance?
 

Anomander

Member
Oct 27, 2017
312
My guess is that we're gonna have limited ray tracing implementations in the base consoles and then have full-blown ray tracing in the mid-gen upgrades (PS5 Pro), plus some res and framerate boosts.