I just got this mail from sony in dutch, could it be ps5 related?
It says something exciting is happening 6th august #listenwithsony
Which sounds like a speaker instead of a PlayStation so i didnt want to make a thread
just an audio event
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just an audio event
I just got this mail from sony in dutch, could it be ps5 related?
It says something exciting is happening 6th august #listenwithsony
Which sounds like a speaker instead of a PlayStation so i didnt want to make a thread
Maybe they will finally announce the ANC headphone wh-1000XM4
Sony WH-1000XM4 Wireless Headphones review
Are the Sony WH-1000XM4 the best headphones ever made?
www.techradar.com
Even in Metro exodus the solution was not brute force GI, it had plenty of amazing tricks to make it faster.
Ie.
First tracing in screen space and if there is no hit, it would trace polygons.
RT world was basically flat shaded with color of albedo and so on.
If it would have been done with full materials and full shading, it would have been ridiculously expensive.
Ok, here's my wild theory. Remember the dual-sided heatsink patent?
Put the two GPUs on opposite sides of the package to split the heat. If you can make the signal integrity work, they can ever share the memory bus lines. Instead of clamshell RAM, you have clamshell GPUs.
Put the two GPUs on opposite sides of the package to split the heat. If you can make the signal integrity work, they can ever share the memory bus lines. Instead of clamshell RAM, you have clamshell GPUs.
Aug 6th tho?I just got this mail from sony in dutch, could it be ps5 related?
It says something exciting is happening 6th august #listenwithsony
Which sounds like a speaker instead of a PlayStation so i didnt want to make a thread
Aug 6th rumor?
Can it be....
Ah, I wasn't aware of this. I think the only trade off I remembered was that RTX High basically traced rays at half resolution then checkerboarded to native resolution while RTX Ultra just traces at full resolution. In this case, full ray traced GI almost sounds like path tracing already.
It is a sony announcement for music lovers.
If it confirms something, then it confirms that there will be no PlayStation event on august 6th.
I can't see a sony music announcment and PlayStation showcase during the same time...
A bit off-topic, but if I read this correctly, this will be the second product (rumors say they are using AI to reconstruct audio lost because of compression) where Sony has dedicated HW for AI functions (the first being the IMX501 image sensor). I wonder if they're using some kind of outside solution or they're making it themselves.Maybe they will finally announce the ANC headphone wh-1000XM4
Sony WH-1000XM4 Wireless Headphones review
Are the Sony WH-1000XM4 the best headphones ever made?
Anyway, albeit in other areas, but at least it seems the company as a whole is embracing AI-based reconstruction which I think is good news for future games.
Disappointing! Looks like we'll have to hope for the 13th then...
Leaked footage of this occurring
That's one way to sell 170 million consoles, let users link 2 together to form the "Pro" model 😁
I hope this means they've done away with having to push the PS button to back out of apps and you can do this using any TV remote. That would be a very nice quality of life improvement for me.
sounds like it hopefully the back or home button on the tv remote does it.
That's already possible with the PS4 as I use it all the time. Take a look at this IR adapter (it's officially licensed by Sony). It allows me to control the PS4 with my Harmony 700 remote and it's awesome. I am only forced to use the DS4 within an actual game. My remote can turn my PS4 on and off, navigate menus, type up instant messages and select apps.
I can also use FF, rewind, chapter advance, play, stop, pause, etc. on Blurays or streaming and local media apps flawlessly. My "exit" button on the remote acts as my DS4 home button. It turns on the PS4 and exits out of games/apps just as the real button does. Check it out!
My Bravia TV can do this, somewhat through through the Device Control menu. It would be nice to not have to do that with those extra steps though.
Haha imagine if they actually did this. Another good reason for the digital only model, it's also the extender model (you obvs don't need two disc drives). Why has no one photoshopped this yet?!
What's did I miss?
Is the PS5 going to have a secret dGPU?
But this time instead of the powerbrick, it'll be a co-processor chip? :P
PS5 FW 1.20: "Unlocks 10 Teraflops of extra power"
lol
Imagine if the BD drive is plug and play, you can just pull off the bottom plate of the digital edition, put in the BD drive, put on the standard version bottom plate and voila standard PS5. Although the DE is missing the eject button so probably not lol :p
Kraken benchmarks
cbloomrants.blogspot.com
TL;DR
Dataset 1 (Texture data BC1,3,4,5, and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc.)
Kraken ratio: 1.76:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.76 = 9.68GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.13:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 3.13 = 17.2GB/sec)
Dataset 2 (Texture data BC6 and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc. Very much what MSFT expects of BCpack data)
Kraken ratio: 1.78:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.85 = 10.1GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.99:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.99 = 21.9GB/sec)
Performance of various compressors on Oodle Texture RDO data
Oodle Texture RDO can be used with any lossless back-end compressor. RDO does not itself make data smaller, it makes the data more compres...
cbloomrants.blogspot.com
TL;DR
Dataset 1 (Texture data BC1,3,4,5, and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc.)
Kraken ratio: 1.76:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.76 = 9.68GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.13:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 3.13 = 17.2GB/sec)
Dataset 2 (Texture data BC6 and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc. Very much what MSFT expects of BCpack data)
Kraken ratio: 1.78:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.85 = 10.1GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.99:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.99 = 21.9GB/sec)
Kraken benchmarks
Performance of various compressors on Oodle Texture RDO data
Oodle Texture RDO can be used with any lossless back-end compressor. RDO does not itself make data smaller, it makes the data more compres...
TL;DR
Dataset 1 (Texture data BC1,3,4,5, and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc.)
Kraken ratio: 1.76:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.76 = 9.68GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.13:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 3.13 = 17.2GB/sec)
Dataset 2 (Texture data BC6 and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc. Very much what MSFT expects of BCpack data)
Kraken ratio: 1.78:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.85 = 10.1GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.99:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.99 = 21.9GB/sec)
Nice
That means loading shouldn't surpass 2-2.5s?Kraken benchmarks
Performance of various compressors on Oodle Texture RDO data
Oodle Texture RDO can be used with any lossless back-end compressor. RDO does not itself make data smaller, it makes the data more compres...
TL;DR
Dataset 1 (Texture data BC1,3,4,5, and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc.)
Kraken ratio: 1.76:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.76 = 9.68GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.13:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 3.13 = 17.2GB/sec)
Dataset 2 (Texture data BC6 and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc. Very much what MSFT expects of BCpack data)
Kraken ratio: 1.78:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.85 = 10.1GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.99:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.99 = 21.9GB/sec)
There was a patent that showed the possibility of a console with multiple GPUs via chiplets for a client or cloud device. Back in 2018, there was a patent for a heatsink which had sinking elements on both sides of the PCB. If you had a package with GPU chiplets on both sides, you could make it easier to cool both.
Kraken benchmarks
Performance of various compressors on Oodle Texture RDO data
Oodle Texture RDO can be used with any lossless back-end compressor. RDO does not itself make data smaller, it makes the data more compres...
TL;DR
Dataset 1 (Texture data BC1,3,4,5, and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc.)
Kraken ratio: 1.76:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.76 = 9.68GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.13:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 3.13 = 17.2GB/sec)
Dataset 2 (Texture data BC6 and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc. Very much what MSFT expects of BCpack data)
Kraken ratio: 1.78:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.85 = 10.1GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.99:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.99 = 21.9GB/sec)
Very Interesting. I always thought it was strange MS was claiming 2:1 compression for Series X where Sony was claiming ~1.5:1 for PS5. SX being 2x better at compression read like a generational difference in compression tech, which seemed odd given how much effort Sony has put into I/O with he PS5.
That 120 million consoles in five years makes sense now. It's 60 million users buying two each and duct taping them together 🤣
Looks like the question of bigger SE vs SA has been answered for potential half-step consoles.
Later events showed that wasn't actually being claimed (though it sure appears like it). When the Series X technical details came out in March, news outlets received the stats shown in this Xbox Wire post: that the new Xbox had a transfer rate of 2.4GB/s raw, and 4.8GB/s compressed. The Digital Foundry report added a quote from the Xbox architect that their decompression block could theoretically hit over 6GB/s. Everyone in this thread, including myself, assumed these three numbers were directly comparable to the three values revealed by Sony in the Road to PS5. That is, minimum, typical, and maximum transfer speeds of 5.5, 8-9, and 22GB/s respectively for their new console. Immediately, this prompted the question you ask: why is the Microsoft "typical with compression" number a higher ratio? A tentative conclusion was that perhaps it was due to BCPack.
But with the release earlier this month of the Xbox Wire post on Velocity Architecture, we found out the real answer. Which is that the 4.8GB/s number is not a claimed typical result of compression, or an average, or a measurement of any kind. As Microsoft puts it, it's merely "assuming a 2:1 compression ratio". I'd already pointed out that the ratio being exactly 2:1 strongly suggested it was imprecise or rounded rather than measured. Now we have Microsoft directly stating that it was simply arbitrarily chosen as an example, and doesn't come from profiling data at all. So we actually don't know what the typical transfer rate is on Series X.
so is the only real comparison we can make at the moment the raw numbers of 5.5 vs 2.4 GB/s ? Then from there assuming a 1.5x compression for both, it's around 8.25 vs 3.6 GB/s with compressed?
Yes, with two caveats. First, we also know the maximum rate possible for both decompression hardware blocks: 22.1 GB/s for PS5, and "over 6GB/s" for XSX (presumably under 6.9, or they'd describe it as "about 7"). Neither decompressor will spend very much time at this max rate, but the differing ceilings--4:1 ratio for Sony, 2.5 to 2.8:1 for Microsoft--suggest that the former would handle outlier events more gracefully. Which brings us to the second caveat:
I don't know if we can assume compression ration will be about the same. The two platforms do seem to have taken different technical approaches. So while the maturity of compression algorithms works against the end results being radically different, I don't think there's anything stopping them from being notably distinct. Is Sony's higher ratio ceiling an actual advantage, or will real-world scenarios never use that headroom? Is Microsoft's BCPack even more effective than Oodle BCPrep/Kraken, or just a different name for the same sort of thing?
It's also worth noting that things like the API and the ease of using the software tools can be as important or more so than what the hardware can theoretically handle. Generally speaking I'd give the advantage to the PS5 on all of these as one of their main goals was to make games easier to develop. Bear in mind though that all of this is on the development side so it can affect how games are made, but it might not translated to extra pixels or more frames. On the other hand, I expect that, as long as developers are willing to dump older consoles and PCs, these new features should see use much earlier in the generation.
do we know anything about 'landed' throughput? Your numbers sound reasonable for the decompression unit output, but is it safe to assume that is also sustainable through to memory? Or potentially some of the additional hardware in PS5 May mean fewer issues with contention with eg GPU, and/or less overhead needed from the system as the output increases?
Sony has certainly talked in more detail about this aspect of streamlining end-to-end. Microsoft has made reference to improving overall workflow with their talk of a whole "Velocity Architecture", but their descriptions have been much less granular. However, we can't really take what are both just public-facing summaries and conclude any decisive statement about comparative technical advantages. We don't have complete information about either system.
Interestingly, smaller SAs and fewer RBs per SE. Also, fewer waves per SIMD. Probably not much to gain there when going chonky boi.
Man, Ghost of Tsushima foliage continues to amaze me while playing it.
I was looking forward to PS5 to get Horizon-levels of foliage but even further out in the distance than that game, AND all interactive, but then Ghost of Tsushima goes ahead and gives us PS5-levels of foliage in a 1.8tf GCN console with a mobile-class 2013 CPU, lol.
I was looking forward to PS5 to get Horizon-levels of foliage but even further out in the distance than that game, AND all interactive, but then Ghost of Tsushima goes ahead and gives us PS5-levels of foliage in a 1.8tf GCN console with a mobile-class 2013 CPU, lol.
Man, Ghost of Tsushima foliage continues to amaze me while playing it.
I was looking forward to PS5 to get Horizon-levels of foliage but even further out in the distance than that game, AND all interactive, but then Ghost of Tsushima goes ahead and gives us PS5-levels of foliage in a 1.8tf GCN console with a mobile-class 2013 CPU, lol.
I don't regret holding off on GoT or LoU:P2 in order to play them on PS5. I can't wait to be even more blown away by these titles. Avoiding spoilers is going to be tough though lol.
Anyway, does anyone think there's anymore hardware wise that Sony has been keeping under wraps besides the cooler? During the initial PS4 and PS4 Pro events, I thought Sony was pretty open about special customizations they've made to the GPU. This doesn't appear to be the case with the PS5, though they were very open about their custom I/O and storage solution. Could it be the case that Sony just didn't make many bespoke customizations to RDNA2 (besides the what they did to allow for better backwards compatibility)?
There have been a few things from previous pages relating to machine learning assisted reconstruction I think. If this is agnostic unlike the Pro hardware, that would be beneficial to cb and the various temporal reconstruction techniques.
Man, Ghost of Tsushima foliage continues to amaze me while playing it.
I was looking forward to PS5 to get Horizon-levels of foliage but even further out in the distance than that game, AND all interactive, but then Ghost of Tsushima goes ahead and gives us PS5-levels of foliage in a 1.8tf GCN console with a mobile-class 2013 CPU, lol.
I looked closer at the screen shot before reading your post, and was like woooo what's this! A new Next gen game leak? Legit screen of AC Next Gen?
Yeah I'm still on media black out for Ghost and haven't seen day time footage of it. Looks Amazing!
As I have 100% decided to purchase a PS5 as my only nextgen console, I still have these "mixed feelings", and I hope they prove me wrong.
I honestly believe that this past gen would have been mediocre to me, but it was amazing thanks to these incredible Sony exclusives. So there is no question, I'm going for the PS5.
But at the same time I can't help but think, is the custom IO throughput that awesome?
Wouldn't have been better to include a standard IO with a regular nvme drive, and invest that money in more GPU cores to make the GPU more future proof?
It is what it is, and It's ok. But I wish Sony will explain further than that Ratchet & Clank showcase, or some developers saying that it's great.
I honestly believe that this past gen would have been mediocre to me, but it was amazing thanks to these incredible Sony exclusives. So there is no question, I'm going for the PS5.
But at the same time I can't help but think, is the custom IO throughput that awesome?
Wouldn't have been better to include a standard IO with a regular nvme drive, and invest that money in more GPU cores to make the GPU more future proof?
It is what it is, and It's ok. But I wish Sony will explain further than that Ratchet & Clank showcase, or some developers saying that it's great.
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It'll be amazing. I've just finished platinuming TLOU2 and GoT and both were fantastic experiences - targetting a relatively low powered machine with a slow HDD. What those teams will produce on PS5 I can't comprehend right now.
the biggest difference to me is the target market. Sony first party will be developing focused titles for PS5. MS first party has to develop their titles to cover XSX, Lockhart, XB1 and PC now - and XSX, Lockhart and PC once XB1 support is dropped in a year or two. That will surely require a level of scalability/flexibility in the engines which may mean the technical baseline is PC (at a lower power level than lockhart) and high end PC/XSX scaling is detail/resolution/framerate. Effectively XSX becomes a PC sitting under your living room TV. Thats fine for many situations and use cases, but IMO is not optimal for your specific example of first party studios maxing out what is possible on a single platform
Alternative viewpoint - go back and look at the E3 2013 showing - aside from Killzone there wasn't much that looked amazing, let alone hint at the kinds of things we'd get
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What would you have them do? Fast forward time and put the games in your hand? All we can do is wait and see, it's going to be a long gen and we haven't played a single title yet.
I guess I just don't see the logic in questioning the decisions of engineers and architects (to armchair analysts nonetheless)....months before a single person outside the company has touched a PS5. How can anyone here know "what would have been better" when there are 0 real world examples or frames of comparison/reference?
Tech demos, talk, a proper hardware introduction? I've seen those in previous generations.
Mark Cerny's Road to PS5 speech was a developers conference.
This time it smells like they will show a few more third party games, set the price and sell preorders.
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