PlayStation 5 Specs Revealed by EuroGamer (See Threadmarks)

Manmademan · Mar 19, 2020

bonesawisready5 said:
Well that's just my point. In a scenario where only XSX and PS5 exist, games don't perform as well on PS5.

but with LH, games will be designed around its limitations, and will perform the worst on it, right? Even if it's 1080p focused, if it has less RAM or even a slower SSD than XSX, then I think that would have an impact on all 3rd party games.

I know you weren't discussing LH specifically but I just think the discussion of whether PS5 versions will perform worse than XSX can't really be determined yet since we don't know about LH officially.

Not a tech expert by any means, but historically games are designed around the platform with the greatest marketshare, with all others getting ports with various compromises.

Lockhart isnt likely to grab enough marketshare to hold the other platforms back if Sony maintains a userbase anywhere near what the PS4 has now.

LebGuns · Mar 19, 2020

ImaginaShawn said:
XSX has advantages in CPU, GPU, and Mem Bandwidth.
PS4 had advantages in GPU and Mem Bandwidth.

Mem bandwidth in XSX is split, and only 10GB/s is faster..

lucionm · Mar 19, 2020

DrKeo said:
Avatar buddies?

You have good taste :)

blastprocessor · Mar 19, 2020

saintjules said:
wow

Holy crap that's funny.

TheAmazingSpiderMan · Mar 19, 2020

mario_O said:
nope. it's most of the time: watch again:

I feel like I can only hear the melodic voice of Cerny but not hear the actual words he's saying :|

mf.luder · Mar 19, 2020

What are the chances that there port on the back for video other than HDMI? Hi res gaming monitors all seem to require DisplayPort or something else (i might be wrong here) because HDMI can't drive hi res.

Or am I way off?

ILikeFeet · Mar 19, 2020

mf.luder said:
What are the chances that there port on the back for video other than HDMI? Hi res gaming monitors all seem to require DisplayPort or something else (i might be wrong here) because HDMI can't drive hi res.

Or am I way off?

HDMI 2.1 will be suffice for the majority of monitors out there. I don't think display port is widespread enough for Sony to throw support behind it

alstrike · Mar 19, 2020

AegonSnake said:
EDIT: Ignore this. Cerny said it will spend most of its time close to 2.23 ghz.

12.15/9.21 = 31.9%.

Dont fall for the 10.2 tflops number. it will almost never happen. Zen 2 CPU consumes far less power than the gpu. the smaller cut down version of the cpu here consumes as low as 20w. even if by some miracle devs are able to shutdown the entire cpu (Which will never ever happen) the 20w increase will not allow them to hit the 2.23 ghz clockspeed anyway.

its one of those theoretical tflops numbers that the gpu CAN hit but lets face it, it will never hit.

36 CU at 2.0 ghz is what you are getting and thats 9.2 tflops. Expect 30% resolution less than xbox series x games. and then there is RT which according to AMD patents sits in the CUs. i think RT games might have a 50% resolution difference at the end of the day. similar to the 900p vs 1080p resolution this gen.

AegonSnake · Mar 19, 2020

alstrike said:

yeah, the one im quoting right now. I actually went back and edited my post to admit i was wrong. you on the other hand didnt even bother to read the very first line of my post.

Atilac · Mar 19, 2020

Theorry said:
Hope Albert Penello can give more info

What's the frequency range on the ps5 cpu?

III-V · Mar 19, 2020

Atilac said:
What's the frequency range on the ps5 cpu?

Not given. Clock frequency varies on the computation efficiency of the work load.

BradGrenz · Mar 19, 2020

Dictator said:
Devs will prioritise modes like high clocked GPU and lower clockd CPU, or the other way around. That is basically what the presentation says, they will have trouble hitting full speeds on both parts simultaneously due to utilisation (which is a bit duh), so one Part being higherclocked requires an under utilisation of the other. So a game that is mostly gpu limited will use a gpu Mode, a very intense open world game or... Some other Design requiring more CPU will use a CPU Mode. So underclocking the GPU there.

I don't think that is true at all. Cerny specifically mentions the kind of workloads that could trigger throttling. You are not constantly choosing one over the other. But if you need to make heavy use of AVX256 the CPU may throttle. If you add a Furmark level to your game, the GPU will throttle. In either case it will probably be rare.

Adum said:
Cerny did say that high clocked GPUs have certain advantages. How far do you think that ridiculously high GPU frequency in the PS5 will help to mitigate any performance gaps between the two consoles when it comes to third party titles?

So the XSX has a 17% advantage in shading/RT, but the PS5 may have a 22% advantage in geometry rate, fillrate, and cache bandwidth across the GPU, plus general better utilization from scheduling fewer units. I think there's a decent chance that in many cases the performance difference will basically be a wash. I don't know that we should even expect resolution differences to be the norm.

gremlinz1982 said:
What is so different this generation that Sony will see more benefits coming through from weaker GPU's clocked higher, dealing with slower bandwidth?

Well, for on the Xbox One had half as many ROPs so the fillrate of the PS4 remained much higher even despite the clock speed difference. Beyond that, the clock speed difference was comparatively tiny, and the Xbox One memory architecture was so much worse that a small upclock couldn't come anywhere near overcoming the deficit.

gremlinz1982 · Mar 19, 2020

BradGrenz said:
Well, for on the Xbox One had half as many ROPs so the fillrate of the PS4 remained much higher even despite the clock speed difference. Beyond that, the clock speed difference was comparatively tiny, and the Xbox One memory architecture was so much worse that a small upclock couldn't come anywhere near overcoming the deficit.

And why did the fillrate not help the PS4 Pro?

BradGrenz · Mar 19, 2020

gremlinz1982 said:
And why did the fillrate not help the PS4 Pro?

In certain cases it may have, but was largely limited by the large memory bandwidth difference.

Mecha Meister · Mar 19, 2020

Fargoth's Ring said:
I know! 62% larger transistor count per CU in the PS5 vs PS4 was just one of the many things from the deep dive video that has me stoked for next-gen!

Hehe! Both of these consoles look to be fantastic machines, I'm excited to hear more about them and see some games!

Firefly · Mar 19, 2020

nib95 said:
I think the biggest thing Sony First Party games will push that really blow people away, is in open world traversal and world density thanks to the SSD streaming speed. I'm guessing HZD2 has flight this time around, and Spider-Man 2 offers far more traversal velocity or speed without losing any graphical or asset detail.

We're not talking HDD to SSD differences here. Both of those use case scenarios can work equally well on the Xbox SSD.

nib95 · Mar 19, 2020

Firefly said:
We're not talking HDD to SSD differences here. Both of those use case scenarios can work equally well on the Xbox SSD.

I think you mean they can work really well on both storage systems, not equally well, because there's nothing equal about a 100%+ difference in storage speed. In reality the IO throughput advantage means if designed around it, the PS5 game could stream a greater density of assets and higher quality assets in any one scene or field of view, especially important if moving at a high velocity. Not to mention reduce pop in and loading times.

Firefly · Mar 19, 2020

nib95 said:
I think you mean they can work really well on both storage systems, not equally well, because there's nothing equal about a 100%+ difference in storage speed. In reality the IO throughput advantage means if designed around it, the PS5 game could stream a greater density of assets and higher quality assets in any one scene or field of view, especially important if moving at a high velocity. Not to mention reduce pop in and loading times.

I mean equally well to a point where the differences won't really mean much at all.

BreakAtmo · Mar 19, 2020

Just checking something - we don't yet know how much of the PS5's RAM is taken up by the OS, correct?

i like big butts · Mar 19, 2020

Since when are we taking Arthur "Secret Sauce" Gies seriously when discussing hardware in this day and age.

zombiejames · Mar 19, 2020

BreakAtmo said:
Just checking something - we don't yet know how much of the PS5's RAM is taken up by the OS, correct?

Nope.

BreakAtmo · Mar 19, 2020

zombiejames said:
Nope.

Shame. I hope they can cut it down somewhat.

Muppet of a Man · Mar 19, 2020

BradGrenz said:
I don't think that is true at all. Cerny specifically mentions the kind of workloads that could trigger throttling. You are not constantly choosing one over the other. But if you need to make heavy use of AVX256 the CPU may throttle. If you add a Furmark level to your game, the GPU will throttle. In either case it will probably be rare.

So the XSX has a 17% advantage in shading/RT, but the PS5 may have a 22% advantage in geometry rate, fillrate, and cache bandwidth across the GPU, plus general better utilization from scheduling fewer units. I think there's a decent chance that in many cases the performance difference will basically be a wash. I don't know that we should even expect resolution differences to be the norm.

Well, for on the Xbox One had half as many ROPs so the fillrate of the PS4 remained much higher even despite the clock speed difference. Beyond that, the clock speed difference was comparatively tiny, and the Xbox One memory architecture was so much worse that a small upclock couldn't come anywhere near overcoming the deficit.

Good post. This is why things are not the same but inverse this time around.

zombiejames · Mar 19, 2020

BreakAtmo said:
Shame. I hope they can cut it down somewhat.

I was actually hoping the rumour of there being a completely separate pool of DDR4 dedicated just for the OS was true. Oh well. Saves money this way but it would be nice to give developers that entire pool, especially since the RAM upgrade is only 2x this time.

Muppet of a Man · Mar 19, 2020

nib95 said:
I think you mean they can work really well on both storage systems, not equally well, because there's nothing equal about a 100%+ difference in storage speed. In reality the IO throughput advantage means if designed around it, the PS5 game could stream a greater density of assets and higher quality assets in any one scene or field of view, especially important if moving at a high velocity. Not to mention reduce pop in and loading times.

It's not just twice the throughput but also better mitigation of bottlenecks up the whole pipeline.

Fargoth's Ring · Mar 19, 2020

,

Mecha Meister said:
Hehe! Both of these consoles look to be fantastic machines, I'm excited to hear more about them and see some games!

I agree and I think Sony will assuage people's skepticism when they show instead of tell, I really believe that the specs on paper don't belie how much of a leap the consoles will actually be.

BreakAtmo · Mar 19, 2020

zombiejames said:
I was actually hoping the rumour of there being a completely separate pool of DDR4 dedicated just for the OS was true. Oh well. Saves money this way but it would be nice to give developers that entire pool, especially since the RAM upgrade is only 2x this time.

Agreed, that would've been excellent.

NippleViking · Mar 19, 2020

SG-17 said:
Series X is the Power Weighted Super Saiyan form (what Trunks and Vegeta use to fight Cell).

PS5 is the Full Power Super Saiyan form (the state Goku and Gohan achieve in the Time Chamber where they stay in it all of the time).

So the Series X has power, a lot of it, but is slow (comparatively). The PS5 doesn't have that same raw power but it has speed.

This is horrendously inaccurate, holy shit

Stixitnu · Mar 19, 2020

SG-17 said:
Series X is the Power Weighted Super Saiyan form (what Trunks and Vegeta use to fight Cell).

PS5 is the Full Power Super Saiyan form (the state Goku and Gohan achieve in the Time Chamber where they stay in it all of the time).

So the Series X has power, a lot of it, but is slow (comparatively). The PS5 doesn't have that same raw power but it has speed.

Everything from here on out should be equated in DBZ power levels.

Trice · Mar 20, 2020

Looks good. The start of a new console gen is always exciting for PC gaming. Less downgrades and less holding back. Welcome to the SSD era.

Brrandon · Mar 20, 2020

NippleViking said:
This is horrendously inaccurate, holy shit

no its fairly accurate. probably the best dragon ball comparison you can do

NippleViking · Mar 20, 2020

Brandon456076 said:
no its fairly accurate.

The system with a variable clock and lower statistics in effectively 5/6 major categories is superior? Right..... These attempts to paint the XSX as an 'unbalanced system' are peak concern-trolling.

Brrandon · Mar 20, 2020

NippleViking said:
The system with a variable clock and lower statistics in effectively 5/6 major categories is better? Right..... Painting the XSX as an 'unbalanced system' is peak concern-trolling.

Im... im not painting it as unbalanced??? I have an xbox preference. The bulky saiyan form has its upsides and downsides, just like regular saiyan form.

NippleViking · Mar 20, 2020

Brandon456076 said:
Im... im not painting it as unbalanced??? I have an xbox preference. The bulky saiyan form has its upsides and downsides, just like regular saiyan form.

There are no downsides to the XSX approach though - potentially other than price? It's extremely conventional in design, without any unorthodox parts.

Deleted member 224 · Mar 20, 2020

NippleViking said:
The system with a variable clock and lower statistics in effectively 5/6 major categories is better? Right..... Painting the XSX as an 'unbalanced system' is peak concern-trolling.

It's the same kind of concern trolling that was occurring back in 2013. The XB1 was touted as the more "balanced" system and had "a ton of tricks" to close whatever performance gaps existed. Plus, the PS4 has a great gpu, but was "bottlenecked" in other areas like the cpu; so Sony was never going to be able to fully use it.

These sorts of rationalizations were always going to happen with whatever console ended up weaker. Luckily, the gap isn't huge this time, but games will look and perform better on the XSX. Doesn't sound like an "unbalanced" or "strong but slow" system to me.

Brrandon · Mar 20, 2020

NippleViking said:
There are no downsides to the XSX approach though - potentially other than price? It's extremely conventional in design, without any unorthodox parts.

the main comparison i was agreeing with was the speed(SSD) being slower, much like the speed in bulkyboi form being slower. Its still really fast relatively, but not as much as regular ssj

Soliloquy of a Dogge · Mar 20, 2020

Brandon456076 said:
no its fairly accurate. probably the best dragon ball comparison you can do

Series X - SSJ2 Gohan

PS5 - Perfect Cell

Much better. That was easy.

NippleViking · Mar 20, 2020

JDSpades said:
It's the same kind of concern trolling that was occurring back in 2013. The XB1 was touted as the more "balanced" system and had "a ton of tricks" to close whatever performance gaps existed. Plus, the PS4 has a great gpu, but was "bottlenecked" in other areas like the cpu; so Sony was never going to be able to fully use it.

These sorts of rationalizations were always going to happen with whatever console ended up weaker. Luckily, the gap isn't huge this time, but games will look and perform better on the XSX. Doesn't sound like an "unbalanced" or "strong but slow" system to me.

Yeah, I mean it's a DBZ power levels comparison, so not supposed to be too serious, but still

Dictator · Mar 20, 2020

nib95 said:
I think you mean they can work really well on both storage systems, not equally well, because there's nothing equal about a 100%+ difference in storage speed. In reality the IO throughput advantage means if designed around it, the PS5 game could stream a greater density of assets and higher quality assets in any one scene or field of view, especially important if moving at a high velocity. Not to mention reduce pop in and loading times.

I typed this else where, but people saying things about the ssd enabling entirely different looking open world games does not make much sense based upon what we know about open world dev really. All data pulled from ssd would be static data, completely unmutable. That would mean perfectly predesigned Level data and arrangements, which is the exact opposite methodolgy of how modern open world games increase their detail and variety - which is infact through prcedural method not living on the disk (hdd/ssd).
Procedural methods exist to increase the efficiency of artists and diversity of the game World and even increase detail beyond static draws. If you are pulling things from an ssd to do that kind of detail, that means artists spent their time making it.. Which seems pretty antithetical to efficient dev.

I would think the ssd would not help open world games like you imagine, rather corridor games where a dev spend the time to Design every nut and bolt in a static fashion that is drawn from disc into memory. But not even geo as I have never recently Heard of a dev running out of memory for Model data. I guess completely unique textures (if the dev is not using sharable/procesural/Tiling textures for some reason) or rather static light maps that are very dense (so static and completely unique textures). That is, if that dev for some reason wants to forsake more modern Procedural Design or dynamic scene elements).

Basically, if a dev is designing around an ssd in the manner like you describe, that means that all their detail must already exist In a big Form on disc, which sounds like a lot of wasted dev time and disc space to me when modern Procedural solutions save time, disc space, and probably increase the dynamism and accuracy. A good example is massively detail ed GI light map textures vs actually prcedural dynamic RT GI.

sncvsrtoip · Mar 20, 2020

Dictator said:
I typed this else where, but people saying things about the ssd enabling entirely different looking open world games does not make much sense based upon what we know about open world dev really. All data pulled from ssd would be static data, completely unmutable. That would mean perfectly predesigned Level data and arrangements, which is the exact opposite methodolgy of how modern open world games increase their detail and variety - which is infact through prcedural method not living on the disk (hdd/ssd).
Procedural methods exist to increase the efficiency of artists and diversity of the game World and even increase detail beyond static draws. If you are pulling things from an ssd to do that kind of detail, that means artists spent their time making it.. Which seems pretty antithetical to efficient dev.

I would think the ssd would not help open world games like you imagine, rather corridor games where a dev spend the time to Design every nut and bolt in a static fashion that is drawn from disc into memory. But not even geo as I have never recently Heard of a dev running out of memory for Model data. I guess completely unique textures (if the dev is not using sharable/procesural/Tiling textures for some reason) or rather static light maps that are very dense (so static and completely unique textures). That is, if that dev for some reason wants to forsake more modern Procedural Design or dynamic scene elements).

Basically, if a dev is designing around an ssd in the manner like you describe, that means that all their detail must already exist In a big Form on disc, which sounds like a lot of wasted dev time and disc space to me when modern Procedural solutions save time, disc space, and probably increase the dynamism and accuracy. A good example is massively detail ed GI light map textures vs actually prcedural dynamic RT GI.

so why so many devs are excited about this super fast ps5 ssd ?

Matt Phillips on Twitter

“That custom SSD transfer chip is cartridge-to-RAM DMA all over again and I'm excited. I hope Xbox does something similar, though, or we can't architect an engine around it and it'll be a moot point unless you're Naughty Dog.”

twitter.com

Andrea Pessino on Twitter

“Dollar bet: within a year from its launch gamers will fully appreciate that the PlayStation 5 is one of the most revolutionary, inspired home consoles ever designed, and will feel silly for having spent energy arguing about "teraflops" and other similarly misunderstood specs. 😘”

twitter.com

Superking · Mar 20, 2020

hmm, anyone else think those specs look disappointing for both? the RAM for example is only double the amount in the current gen consoles.

sncvsrtoip · Mar 20, 2020

Oblivion said:
hmm, anyone else think those specs look disappointing for both? the RAM for example is only double the amount in the current gen consoles.

only ram and bandwidth are little underwhelming, all other specs are very impressive

Deleted member 51539 · Mar 20, 2020

Oblivion said:
hmm, anyone else think those specs look disappointing for both? the RAM for example is only double the amount in the current gen consoles.

The beefiest AMD Desktop GPU on the market right now has 8GB of VRAM and the 2080 TI has 11. I think we're good.

BKLorenzo · Mar 20, 2020

saintjules said:

Yasss

Superking · Mar 20, 2020

Zehzin said:
The beefiest AMD Desktop GPU on the market right now has 8GB of VRAM and the 2080 TI has 11. I think we're good.

i was talking about the RAM by itself, not the VRAM

DieH@rd · Mar 20, 2020

aevanhoe said:
No one should target 4k60 this generation, really. 1440p/checkerboard 4K @ 60 but with better graphical quality is what the focus should be this gen.

720p30 all the way. If Netflix and Youtube can reduce visual quality, so can game developers. :P

Deleted member 51539 · Mar 20, 2020

Oblivion said:
i was talking about the RAM by itself, not the VRAM

All of the RAM is GDDR6, there's no work ram to speak of.

Superking · Mar 20, 2020

Zehzin said:
All of the RAM is GDDR6, there's no work ram to speak of.

right, so why did you mention VRAM?

Deleted member 51539 · Mar 20, 2020

Oblivion said:
right, so why did you mention VRAM?

Cause that's what it is.

pswii60 · Mar 20, 2020

Oblivion said:
hmm, anyone else think those specs look disappointing for both? the RAM for example is only double the amount in the current gen consoles.

Both consoles' SSD solutions make up for that. Both Sony's custom block and Microsoft's Xbox Velocity Architecture.

This combination of custom hardware and deep software integration allows developers to radically improve asset streaming and effectively multiply available memory. It will enable richer and more dynamic living worlds unlike anything ever seen before. It also effectively eliminates loading times, and makes fast travel systems just that: fast.

PlayStation 5 Specs Revealed by EuroGamer (See Threadmarks)

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