The Kraken HW decompressor caps out at 22 GB/s, but the typical is 8-9 GB/s.
I agree, I wish checkerboard someday makes it's way to PC. Temporal artifacts probably wouldn't be so bad at high frame rates!
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PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny
- Thread starter vestan
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is there any confirmation that either of those things is true?
Where does this info come from? Any details on the implementation?
I wouldn't be surprised if at least 1 example of this occurred at some point over the course of the gen, but yeah, this isn't going to be common.
Well that gpu pretty much guarantees 4kcb. Their is no way they can afford to waste any of those flops on rendering needless pixels.
4kcb and 60 fps is out of the question too because the cpu will never reach 3.5 ghz if the gpu is operating at max frequency. Just how low it gets is anyone's guess but let's suppose it's all the way down to 2 to save 10-15w watts. Can a 2.0 ghz cpu run horizon 2 or gow2 at 60 fps? Maybe at 1080p?
The second paragraph? There's a 52 minute and 45 seconds reason uploaded by Sony about 12 hours ago.
ms has machine learning stuff built into the apu. That's how they are doing hdr on all games going back to 2001.
There are some other customizations as well. It's detailed in the DF reveal video from Monday.
Please don't waste your ressources on native 4K/60fps
Gime 4Kcbr at 30fps and go crazy on physics and visual :D
Gime 4Kcbr at 30fps and go crazy on physics and visual :D
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Does a Faster SSD Matter for Gamers?? - $h!t Manufacturers Say
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Is Your SSD FAST Enough?
The first 200 people who head to https://brilliant.org/techquickie/ will get 20% off their annual premium subscription of Brilliant.How fast does your SSD ne...
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Does a Faster SSD Matter for Gamers?? - $h!t Manufacturers Say
Find a Micro Center near you: https://rebrand.ly/s9j16ctMaingear Vector Laptop: https://rebrand.ly/353vpgsMaingear Vector Laptop (Amazon): https://rebrand.ly...
Is Your SSD FAST Enough?
The first 200 people who head to https://brilliant.org/techquickie/ will get 20% off their annual premium subscription of Brilliant.How fast does your SSD ne...
These aren't relevant to next-gen games. They're talking about how SSDs play with games that were originally designed around HDDs. Apples and oranges.
lol come on man its not that bad. You've been talking like you could bun down sony hq if given the chance lol.
Technically they could just use dynamic rez and be fine hitting 4k at everything. Thy would only be coming down to 1800p about 15-20% of the time (assuming the XSX never drops from 4K ever. But I would really take reconstructed 4K over native any day. Even if it was a 13TF console I would be saying the am thing.
You're not really answering my question lol. How did you measure it? What about MS solution led you to think "not geared to developers as much as PS5" exactly? Have you spent time with each platform? Messed with the APIs? Or is your entire statement based on SSD speeds?
Sigh... I don't even know where to start.Does a Faster SSD Matter for Gamers?? - $h!t Manufacturers Say
Find a Micro Center near you: https://rebrand.ly/s9j16ctMaingear Vector Laptop: https://rebrand.ly/353vpgsMaingear Vector Laptop (Amazon): https://rebrand.ly...
Is Your SSD FAST Enough?
The first 200 people who head to https://brilliant.org/techquickie/ will get 20% off their annual premium subscription of Brilliant.How fast does your SSD ne...
lmao.
I need to see the receipts on this variable clockspeed stuff before i am convinced. You guys have me convinced that it will hit 2.23ghz 98% of the time but i need to know what happens to the cpu when it goes up that high.
I am fine with 10.2 tflops As long as there are no other compromises and the cpu stays at 3.2 ghz.
No, they have not. Only Star Citizen does this (and even then, you only need an SSD of some kind, any will work). Every single other game is designed so it can be played comfortably on a HDD, which drastically limits both the game design and the level of improvement an SSD can offer.
Cerny discussing how nearly every component in the PS5 was customized to meet the demands of developers compared to Microsoft's approach of raw power, the PS5 looks extremely customized to meet the developers needs while managing its cost efficiency while Microsoft chose power with limited customizations excluding it's own additions.
No. No they have not.
The only PC game that is designed with an SSD in mind is SC. Which is why an SSD is listed as part of its recommended hardware specifications. If you want t get an idea of how that differs from everything else, try running that game off a HDD.
Everything Nelson the PC is designed with a HDD in mind, because that's what the consoles from2013 shipped with. Lastly, even running a game off a 3GB/s SSD on PC doesn't offer anything better than what you would have gained running it off a 550MB/s SSD. Thats because they aren't designed to take advantage of that kinda throughput. This is also why Ms is adding stuff from their XSX APIs t windows now to allow games actually take advantage of an NVMe SSD throughput.
Uh, what? Microsoft didn't just go with raw power, there is a lot in there to make things easier for devs as well.
Okay, so it's not actually a specific actual implementation for supersampling, just they've expanded Rapid Packed Math to fit quadruple INT8 or octuple INT4 into an FP32 APU operation. That should help with machine learning tasks of all kinds, though it also will have to run on standard graphics cores. It doesn't come "free" by being run on separate tensor cores like Nvidia's Turing approach.
Andrew Goossen says "we added special hardware support", but it's not specified if this is unique to Microsoft, or one of many possible RDNA 2 technologies on the AMD "buffet". Without this "Super RPM" approach, PS5 would presumably be at 20.6/41.2 TOPS, compared to 48.6/97.2 TOPS for XSX.
From viewing the DF video, the HDR injection is not being done by ML on the Xbox Series X. It's instead a post-process kernel that looks at the final video output, and guesses what nit values should be applied to each pixel based on the image histogram. Machine learning will have been used to develop the kernel--with Gears 5 as the trainer--but the actual application to the game is like FXAA, a sharpen filter, or the like.(That would be why it has basically no performance cost.)
I just pictured the simpsons gif, with you leading the mob. 😋
The most likely scenario you're going to see is the same games, at higher resolution, and with better raytracing. Framerate will more than likely be the same if the ps5 is pushing less pixels.
I know, why I said " excluding it's own additions " do you think the XSX is more customized than the PS5?
From my understanding of this thing, and I am likely missing something here, its something like this.
Power is constant, lets call this S1. In its S1 state, CPU is clocked at 3.5Ghzand GPU at 2.23Ghz. Now in a situation where the CPU need more oomph, the GPU is downclocked, this downclock is as a result of feeding it less power, that power goes to the CPU to up clock it. Call this S2. And vice versa.
However, there is some sort of hard cap, that prevents the CPU from going higher than 3.5GHz or the GPU from going higher than 2.23Ghz, so what happens instead is that when dealing with CPU heavy tasks and where the GPU isn't really needed that much, total power is reduced to the APU, keeping power to the CPU constant but dropping power to the GPU. And vice versa.
Now by are they using their power profile to control the CPU/GPU frequencies? because this way they can build their cooling system around the theoretical maximum performance of their chip.
I'm in a ps5 thread and half of what I'm reading is fanboy BS from team green. Is no one using the report button?
"Excluding it's own additions" you mean...customization? Lol. MS literally added a chalk full of customizations from data they gathered from developers, and hardware telemetry on how various data in XBX were used by the hardware to create everything they're doing in XSX, but that doesn't count because?
I'm ignoring the "raw power/brute force" statement bc that's just mindless drivel
It would be nice to know how many hundred GFLOPS an 8 core Zen 2 CPU does at anywhere from 3.5 to 3.8 GHz (the range of CPU frequency in PS5 all the way up to XSX SMT disabled mode).
I'm guessing that shouldn't be too difficult since all Zen 2 CPUs inherently have double the floating point performance and double the FP load/store bandwidth (256-bit vs 128-bit) compared to Zen and Zen+
On another note, at least PS5 GPU is capable of touching double digit TFLOPS. It sucks that it is not sustained.
They really doubled down on narrow and insanely fast. - 2.23 GHz is absolutely fucking insane and IMO not a good thing.
And It's not as if Xbox Series X GPU is "wide and slow". It's more like wide and pretty damn fast (1.825 GHz).
I'm guessing that shouldn't be too difficult since all Zen 2 CPUs inherently have double the floating point performance and double the FP load/store bandwidth (256-bit vs 128-bit) compared to Zen and Zen+
On another note, at least PS5 GPU is capable of touching double digit TFLOPS. It sucks that it is not sustained.
They really doubled down on narrow and insanely fast. - 2.23 GHz is absolutely fucking insane and IMO not a good thing.
And It's not as if Xbox Series X GPU is "wide and slow". It's more like wide and pretty damn fast (1.825 GHz).
I imagine this gen developers will give us even more options, like different resolutions and performance modes.
Gonna make a quick edition to my original post, when said the PS5 was designed with developers in mind i meant they focused more on easing development for developers rather than focusing on specs that'll please gamers, XSX technically too.
I'm so tired i actually forgot what i was arguing with Angelus Errare about and just went with it lmao.
Still think PS5 is more customised then XSX tho.
I'm so tired i actually forgot what i was arguing with Angelus Errare about and just went with it lmao.
Still think PS5 is more customised then XSX tho.
It remains to be seen how much the variable clock speeds benefits devs.
Both systems are going to probably be equally easy to develop for and the end result in multiplatform games will likely be very, very similar.
I think its all because of their SSD.
Like the more I look at it, the more it's clear how much that SSD defined their design choices. They added like 4/5 components (including SRAM) to their APU just because of the SSD. If they also went for more than 36CUs, then they likely would have ended up with a chip that would be bigger than what's in the XSX.
And this could also be a price thing, cause now they likely have a smaller APU, which means its cheaper too. Also spending less on RAM. And less on physical SSD nand chips. This could really end up being a $399 console.
I hope not, i buy console because i wanna just play the game not mess with settings trying different resolution to gain more less fps. I would rather have 1440p with all bells and whistles than trying to push 4k
That SSD is really cutting edge, so I imagine its pricey.
Would really love if they could hit 399 tho.
Then... don't do it... that's something that more spec enthusiast gamers will tinker with lol.
Just press start and play.
I agree. I do think now that PS5 will end up at $399 USD in NA.
It's a fascinating deep technical dive. Really, I appreciate listening to that. Their focus on apparently allocating so much of their budget to the SSD, presumably at the expense of other areas, will be a key decision that will be fascinating to see play out. They really are doing cool things around bandwidth and audio.
But what an utterly atrocious bit of marketing for a console that makes me genuinely worry about their leadership. If you fail to read the room, is it the people in the rooms fault or yours? Of course it's yours. The entire world is on lock down at home, eager to hear anything else but bad news, and jumping at the first real news of a reveal for PS5 and they deliver a... hour long university lecture in front of a fake crowd. It's bad messaging full stop. It's not on fans to "figure out who the audience is." It's on Sony to manage the audience. Holy cow that was bad. Like, people should be fired bad.
They needed to pivot after GDC was canceled into showing something with a more consumer focus with the technical details filled in other mediums. And they flubbed the moment.
But what an utterly atrocious bit of marketing for a console that makes me genuinely worry about their leadership. If you fail to read the room, is it the people in the rooms fault or yours? Of course it's yours. The entire world is on lock down at home, eager to hear anything else but bad news, and jumping at the first real news of a reveal for PS5 and they deliver a... hour long university lecture in front of a fake crowd. It's bad messaging full stop. It's not on fans to "figure out who the audience is." It's on Sony to manage the audience. Holy cow that was bad. Like, people should be fired bad.
They needed to pivot after GDC was canceled into showing something with a more consumer focus with the technical details filled in other mediums. And they flubbed the moment.
Memory bandwidth plays a significant role in restricting fill rate, and this is definitely one of the One X's strong points. That 384 bit wide bus was expensive, but it does pay dividends. This time around it's more complicated given the Series X's sometimes 320 bit wide / sometimes 192 bit wide data bus. How much of a burden that is in practice remains to be seen.
They're likely listing what they think of as typical using a 2:1 compression ratio as what they think might be a representative workload. Just like Sony listed a typical 8-9GB/s as typical while the hardware is capable of a peak of 22GB/s. Note that Sony's numbers use a more conservative estimate of a typical compression ratio so they're not necessarily directly comparable. They're almost certainly using different reference workloads.
I personally think it will be a game changer. If we watch the GDC video break of Spider-man https://youtu.be/KDhKyIZd3O8?t=1127 you see that for the PS4 they only had a 20mb/s for assist streaming and worked around this limit. Spider-man is an open world game and with a universal SSD that is hitting 5.5gb/s compared to the PS4's 50/100mb/s there is just more you can do. From the GDC video for that 20mb/s stream also had to deal with audio and from the deep dive the PS5 has a separate SPU just for audio so that is taking away some of the workload.
My bold predictions:
HZD2, GoW2, Spider-man 2 will be immensely improved by the SSD alone considering what we got to what the developers are now able to achieve.
Even if the BOM is $450 because of the SSD and expensive cooling (think Bloomberg said that) Sony doesn't mind losing 50 bucks in order to sell at $399.
A $399 will most likely sell the same unit year-by-year as the PS4 did. It's the sweet spot for Sony.
Not to mention PS Plus/Now helps make the financial blow softer.
Where are you getting this 3.5 to 2.0 drop from? If I'm not mistaken, I remember hearing that it was going to stay close to that number(3.5) most of the time.
Microsoft talked about everything from constant clock speeds not changing dependent on workload, how they came up with the RAM config that they have, how their decompression works, how they have tailored everything to ensure that even less CPU workloads are seen so that there is more of it left for games. How they looked at GPU and how this is better optimized learning from the Xbox One X.
There is nothing stock about what Microsoft is doing, and all of it is to try and get the best possible performance.
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