Can't wait for AMD to finally announce the full specs and improvements of their RDNA2 architecture, really want to know what 10.2TF RDNA2 translates to in PS4 flops.
16TF? 18TF? lol 20TF?
16TF? 18TF? lol 20TF?
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PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny
- Thread starter vestan
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Apples and oranges. It's better, yes, but you can't just compare different architectures that way.
SSD is a game changer that's for sure and as what Cerny have said with how fast devs can be up and running with PS5.
I tried to find an explanation but couldn't. This was awfully managed by Sony. Show PS4 demos of what can be done with PS5. Console features. Something.
If not at least let it part of GDC virtual event so people have the expectation that it's going to be very technical.
In my mind they haven't, and that makes his presentation frustrating.
People were getting restless anyway, so it's time for Sony to just be a bit more open about their plans, you can't keep talking and not showing.
GCN suffocates at high TF counts so in theory PS5 is more powerful than any GCN TF number you can think of :)
Maybe they had two choices: 1.) Put out SOMETHING minus games and console reveal or 2.) Stay silent for another 2-3 months. They chose the former. This stream was meant primarily for developers. Maybe we should feel fortunate that we got to see this info at all?
I know you're not saying that is going to happen, but if it is their plan then they need to just say it, it would really help them at this stage.
That is definitely a dream. Doubling the storage alone would easily account for that $100.
Or the third and most obvious option.
You have Cerny sit down with the marketing team and create a 10 minute consumer focused tech breakdown video, where you explain it like you would to a non developer. This is not a hard thing to do.
Primary for developers in a video named road to PS5. How hard is it to have demos of PS4 running on PS5 to show the power of the console? They are already testing the games.
Again put it as part of virtual GDC. You know, the Game DEVELOPERS Conference?
And feel fortunate about a company giving information about a product they're going to sell? Are you serious? This isn't charity. They're not handing these for free.
Yes, we should be fortunate that a billion dollar company is giving us info on a $400+ product they want us to buy.
Jesus the delusion lol.
But they did invite DF and who knows else to come and learn about the architecture from Cerny, but they chose to embargo that information until the GDC talk went live, which put the focus on that talk.
If they'd let publications put their articles out first, then that would have made a huge difference, IMO.
No, it wouldn't. NAND flash chips are not as expensive as you would think (I've been told that despite consumer SSD prices, an internal 1TB SSD would actually only cost Sony or MS about $50), and simply going from chips of one capacity to chips of twice the capacity is even cheaper, because you're only paying the extra costs associated with higher yields rather than any additional physical hardware. I seriously doubt doubling the storage would cost any more than $30 or so.
They have not revealed the console yet. This was not a reveal. Are you saying because they haven't revealed the console yet they're not trying to sell it? It's 8 months before launch. Sony really hasn't done anything out of the ordinary. It's MS that has been radical with their aggressive marketing approach. I think there's lots of credibility about the argument Sony doesn't wanna get fans TOO excited about next gen quite yet with all the games coming out this year.
The way Sony are handling the build up is much worse than their stellar PS4 campaign.
At the moment all the momentum is with Xbox.
Confusion abounds regarding how robust their BC is.
The competition is more powerful and Sony haven't showcased anything to dispel that narrative, not even a tech demo.
They're coming off as complacent newcomers when they are supposed to be the current industry leader.
It's just a talk for a cancelled conference, it isn't a sales pitch to the customer, it could have just been shelved, so he feels fortunate to have heard Cerny give his talk. i don't think the buying bit comes into it.
Yes, the TF delta is ~18% and the BW delta is ~25%, but that doesn't necessary translate to 20% higher performance. The XSX likely has 4 SAs with 14 CUs/SA, compared to 4 SAs and 10CUs/SA for the PS5. The geometry engine is most likely identical. That means the PS5 will have ~22% higher geometry/rasterizer/ZROP performance. We don't yet know the ROP situation but it wouldn't surprise me if the PS5 will have a 22% higher ROP fillrate as well. A GCN SE is similar to a RDNA SA and GCN lost a lot of efficiency when the amount of CUs/SE increased beyond the sweetspot of 8-9 CUs/SE (I.E. compare Polaris (10/SE) vs Vega (16/SE)). I suspect the same will apply for RDNA. It's too early to predict the performance delta between XSX and PS5, but IMO it's more likely to be less than what the TF delta implies. I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually around 10%, in the favour of XSX.
I agree except for the last sentence. This is not a newcomer thing, this is.. specifically an industry leader thing to start a new generation with their fingers in their ass feeling like they have nothing to do. That's almost a tradition in videogame.
But yeah i agree with them being on wrong side of things, not building a momentum, but maybe it won't matter in the end. Microsoft is leading the match for now cause they take the lead with announcements and Sony is always late, compared and blurry in what they say about the PS5, but maybe in 6 month it wont matter.
I don't see how, SSD could be a game changer, neither the sound engine. OK you could load data fast, but that doesn't change the game, unless your game have more then 400GB of data. But that is 50% of the total SSD size. So, it's not gonna happen. And developers will loose compatibility with PC and Xbox and switch? I doubt.
And yet all these mainstream gamers following all this now care about is TF's and games. If games aren't ready to show, does it really matter?
I'd do some reading - there have been some good responses from the dev community (there is a PS5 dev response thread i believe). There are a whole host of advantages i am not smart enough to explain that the PS5 I/O throughput and SSD can foster. The audio engine as well; it's about immersion. A lot of smart people have said this audio tech is a massive leap forward in game immersion, something gamers aren't acutely aware of but do definitely experience.
You are thinking due to stick sensitivity?
To be fair to Sony, they chose a timeline which has been thoroughly disrupted by the current health crisis. Not that Microsoft isn't also affected, but by shaping their message sooner and not planning it around a reveal event, theirs is a whole lot more coherent.
Sony have been quick to protect their workforce so anything that requires collaboration within the company is challenging when everyone is presumably working at a distance. This, I imagine, is the sole problem going forward.
Cerny is currently favoriting people sending pictures of their ears on twitter, FWIW.
There was only that simple tweet from Lisa Su like she did with Xbox, but there was definitely a full Xbox Series X AMD press release on 3/16 with further information on the partnership as linked by Phil below.
The next gen starts when mark neural nets your head-related transfer function.
Well the one thing no one can deny is Sony's quick action to safeguard their workforce, they took no chances and it makes them look great.
The actual console/games will be the litmus test for sure.
But MS won't sit by idle and let Sony turn the momentum back to them, so I'd expect some surprises in store.
Whether or not AAA publishers will be able to fully utilize Sony's proprietary technology remains to be seen. Maybe it really will be just faster loading times and better LOD transitions.
The only thing I am confident in saying is that the PS5 will be super easy to develop for. The extremely fast SSD will help the smaller developers spend less time optimizing their games.
The only thing I am confident in saying is that the PS5 will be super easy to develop for. The extremely fast SSD will help the smaller developers spend less time optimizing their games.
Microsoft are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
Reminds me of the next gen speculation thread where Microsoft had to get power, but if they would be pricing themselves out.
If they were less powerful, well, that was disaster too.
CPU's are a wash basically, and that is great, everything else will scale according to resolution and bandwidth provisions.
I'm not sure how your reply is relevant to what I wrote. There are advantages to scaling the clock frequency opposed to only scaling the amount of some resources of the GPU, since the former approach scales the performance of the entire GPU. We don't yet know exactly how MS have scaled the resources of XSX's GPU, but they most likely haven't scaled all the resources and it's unrealistic to believe that won't have a performance impact.
A part from that, I'm trying to stay out of the fanboy talk, but XSX seems to be a great console and I don't doubt it will have the performance lead for the next gen.
This article does a good job comparing the contrasting strategies of MS and Sony.
www.gamesindustry.biz
Sony and Microsoft are playing different card games | Opinion
We know a lot more about both PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X this week than we did last week. Both Sony and Microsoft …
www.gamesindustry.biz
No chance they do that. Looks like you simply won't be joining next-gen day 1. And that's ok.
There's probably going to be a lot of safety measures in place by then. We can't be walking around like before but It's not like the world is staying in quarantine and inside the house for a year.
AMD is making an 80 CU gpu. i highly doubt that the scaling of CUs is still awful after a complete redesign plus an extra year of R&D for RDNA 2.0.
ps5 will have a 22% higher fillrate compared to a 36 cu series x. a 56 cu 1.82 ghz gpu will be on par if not better in every single way.
Cerny did say that 36 fast cus are better than 48 slower CUs so maybe you are right, but that remains to be seen.
regardless, the point i was trying to make was that the damage is already done because even if it is 10% like you said, the conversation will revolve around that for the rest of the launch and then the rest of the gen. sony has conceded the power talk which worked so well for them, and will be playing catch up the rest of the gen just like MS did this gen. Pheonix asked whats more important? resolution/framerate/performance vs loading and based on the initial response to the cerny reveal, no one seems to care about the ssd at all. everyone wanted more tflops.
Cerny specifically talked about game design and why levels were created this way. I don't know about Microsoft and no exclusive 1st party games at launch but for 1st party PS5 games it'll absolutely change game design.
Why on earth are we getting bigger GPU's or ever increasing efficiency gains then?
Agreed about RDNA2 Scaling - everything we know so far sounds amazing.
If full and optimal utilization of all 52 CU is happening most of the time, PS5 will be behind. I imagine the difference is going to come down to a dynamic resolution delta (as in time that can be spent at highest res due to on screen dynamics) in most titles.
The power talk work well for them but it was also because they were cheaper .
We have to find out the price of these consoles cause if XsX more expensive it will effect things.
This is really interesting. I knew there was an argument, but I didn't know fully what it was. Hopefully DF can do some breakdowns for people like me.
It sounds like more CUs doesn't mean more everything. More TFs, yes. More RT, Yes. They will scale with CUs and Clocks. So the 17% increase.
TFs is one metric of performance, but TFs doesn't include all aspects of performance.
Who's saying MS is damed?
I think it's fair to to point out and understand the differences in system design and how they may be advantageous on both sides. TFs is not the only measure of theoretical performance, is that not okay to say?
Yeah, took me a while to realise that too. Seems Sony went all in with the Shakesperean lingo. I like it. PSVR2 will be called something like Project Midsummer (not to be confused with Midsommar, that's a wholly different nightmare).
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