PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny

Mr_Green · Mar 20, 2020

Like many people who believed in leaks (I won't get caught anymore), I was very disappointed with the 36CUS of the PS5. But since I know that crazy Mark Cerny is not stupid, I wanted to understand why he wanted to put much more into the SSD and not into what is the most important thing for a PC gamer (of which I am a part), the GPU.

Through the videos, articles and reactions of some devs, this is what I understood. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

First of all, it's not because it has less CUS than Serie X that it will do less photorealistic graphics (which is what I expect with the next gen). Better, in big open world, the SSD will make the world much more detailed, thanks to his crazy data rates.

As the PC doesn't have all this hardware that helps PS5 (the 6 instruction channels that the future ssd pcie 4 will not have, etc...), this will make it very difficult to port PS5 games to it. Because Sony's future graphics engine will be built (updated) around the SSD. So, giving one of their best games, which is not historically attached to the PS brand, to a PC audiance is quite clever. As the hardwares are different, you have to buy a PS5 to play the next gen sequel.

The Ray Tracing. We can see with the Nvidia RTX that it takes a lot of GPU resources even if there are RT cores. Mark Cerny said that he saw a PS5 title "that's successfully used Ray Tracing based reflections in complex animated scenes with only modest cost".
Would it be possible for Ps5 to use an algorithm like ADSHIR's LocalRay for the heaviest Ray Tracing and leave the AMD solution for the audio Ray Tracing, which has to be lighter than global illumination, reflections, shadows ?

Anyway, thanks to Mr. Mark Cerny who made me understand that it's not only Tflops that allow you to make beautiful graphics.

AegonSnake · Mar 20, 2020

Sekiro said:
I still haven't and refuse to play BB until its 60fps, something about from games in 30fps makes it uncomfortable to play for me, although ill concede and play it if its not the case.

Although even if not at launch, based on what Cerny was saying wasn't the goal to eventually have All PS4 games enhanced to the PS5, starting with the top 100? Could be hope. 👀

just play BB with pro boost mode on, its fine. it was always pretty much locked on even base consoles, it just had some frame pacing issues which the boost mode pretty much takes care of.

BB is still the only FROM game i have played at 30 fps. i played the rest either on pc or the remasters, and i still rank BB at the very top. Sekiro, DS3, DS1 all do certain things better than BB, but BB has the atmosphere and combat no other From game can match even at 60 fps.

Sekiro · Mar 20, 2020

AegonSnake said:
just play BB with pro boost mode on, its fine. it was always pretty much locked on even base consoles, it just had some frame pacing issues which the boost mode pretty much takes care of.

BB is still the only FROM game i have played at 30 fps. i played the rest either on pc or the remasters, and i still rank BB at the very top. Sekiro, DS3, DS1 all do certain things better than BB, but BB has the atmosphere and combat no other From game can match even at 60 fps.

I probably will if its not support at 60fps on launch, though ill keep the faith for just a little bit more.

Bazz Bazz · Mar 20, 2020

MrDeveus said:
PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X: Console Face-Off

We reviewed both systems. Here is how they compare.

www.tomshardware.com

WTF?
Better games for XSX? Let's be serious.

DIEHARD · Mar 20, 2020

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Deleted member 45414 · Mar 20, 2020

DangerMouse said:
Yes. The overwhelming majority of the PS4's 4000+ games will be playable on PS5.

PS4 BC on the PS5 to work on “overwhelming majority” of the library, games to benefit from improved frame rates and resolutions

A quick update on backward compatibility – With all of the amazing games in PS4’s catalog, we’ve devoted significant efforts to enable our fans to play their favorites on PS5. We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5. We’re expecting backward...

www.resetera.com

Miniature Kaiju said:
Yup, they updated their article. They're just testing stuff and expect the vast majority of the 4k+ games to be playable through enhanced BC day one.

Cool, figured as much :) anything else would seem silly.

hanshotfirst · Mar 20, 2020

I apologize if this was addressed by Sony and I missed it or if its been asked already, but is the 825gb number for the hard drive already subtracting the amount that will be dedicated to the OS or is there no info on that yet? Thanks!

bcatwilly · Mar 20, 2020

hanshotfirst said:
I apologize if this was addressed by Sony and I missed it or if its been asked already, but is the 825gb number for the hard drive already subtracting the amount that will be dedicated to the OS or is there no info on that yet? Thanks!

That 825 GB is the full size, which means that there is definitely less space for multiple games to be installed on it than a 1 TB SSD.

褲蓋Calo · Mar 20, 2020

hanshotfirst said:
I apologize if this was addressed by Sony and I missed it or if its been asked already, but is the 825gb number for the hard drive already subtracting the amount that will be dedicated to the OS or is there no info on that yet? Thanks!

Per Lady Gaia 825GB is the physical size, I.e. without subtracting reserved space. See Lady Gaia 's previous post!

hanshotfirst · Mar 20, 2020

bcatwilly said:
That 825 GB is the full size, which means that there is definitely less space for multiple games to be installed on it than a 1 TB SSD.

That's unfortunate. I know install times will be insanely fast but its still an inconvenience.

Calo☆ said:
Per Lady Gaia 825GB is the physical size, I.e. without subtracting reserved space. See Lady Gaia 's previous post!

Thanks for pointing this out! I appreciate it!

Thanks to both of you!

Maple · Mar 20, 2020

So are NVME SSDs with speeds of 7+ GB/s an absolute requirement for expansion drives? Or will specific ~5 GB/s NVME drives work as well?

bitcloudrzr · Mar 20, 2020

Maple said:
So are NVME SSDs with speeds of 7+ GB/s an absolute requirement for expansion drives? Or will specific ~5 GB/s NVME drives work as well?

Drives with 6GB/s+ and low latency will probably get certified, there will be exceptions.

anexanhume · Mar 20, 2020

Maple said:
So are NVME SSDs with speeds of 7+ GB/s an absolute requirement for expansion drives? Or will specific ~5 GB/s NVME drives work as well?

bitcloudrzr said:
Drives with 6GB/s+ and low latency will probably get certified, there will be exceptions.

Yup. Cerny said there will be some controller overhead because the controller has to arbitrate priority levels.

Axel Stone · Mar 20, 2020

gundamkyoukai said:
Truth is you can from the narrative from both ways but it really does look like Sony was going for $399
You have matt saying what they doing was the plan for a while with there set up and albert saying he was expect 8TF at $399 .
Then look at how the system is made and can see the cost cutting and where it was done .
Of course there is the rumour that there BOM gone up because of a ram but they might just eat that cost for short while since it also effect MS.

Utter speculation based on what may well be faulty info, so feel free to disregard, but what if it isn't the RAM cost that's causing the BoM issues, what if it's actually APU yields owing to overclocking the chips as per that Chinese forum leak? It would seem to make some amount of sense.

Bazz Bazz said:
WTF?
Better games for XSX? Let's be serious.

Because they can play XSX games on their PCs.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 20, 2020

Axel Stone said:
Utter speculation based on what may well be faulty info, so feel free to disregard, but what if it isn't the RAM cost that's causing the BoM issues, what if it's actually APU yields owing to overclocking the chips as per that Chinese forum leak? It would seem to make some amount of sense.

Well time will tell as we get closer to launch .

Pheonix · Mar 20, 2020

DIEHARD said:
MOD EDIT: We do not give a platform to this person or their content

Unfortunately, he has a really good point.

sncvsrtoip · Mar 20, 2020

Tupac_Senpai said:
This has got to be a joke right? They released one tweet the day before and the livestream garnered over 600k concurrent viewers. You telling me they can't do the same or better when they are actually ready to make a Consumer-focused show with all the press and hoopla that comes with that marketing? The delusion of some people on this site is unbelievable....

I just checked, almosst 13 milion now ;)

Sid · Mar 20, 2020

Why would the GPU run at a variable frequency?

Tupac_Senpai · Mar 20, 2020

sncvsrtoip said:
I just checked, almosst 13 milion now ;)

Are you saying the official consumer-focused reveal from Sony wont't garner more views?

III-V · Mar 20, 2020

Sid said:
Why would the GPU run at a variable frequency?

They were able to get higher performance of course.

Jraphics Horse · Mar 20, 2020

Pheonix said:
Unfortunately, he has a really good point.

I think SSD requirement for PC will come in more and more over time from the next year or two, but no multiplats will be able to require PS5 exclusive speeds for a long time obviously.
However PCs games do have a second direction to go for future required specs that consoles can't do, which is by having 64GB+ minimum RAM.

Miniature Kaiju · Mar 20, 2020

Sid said:
Why would the GPU run at a variable frequency?

Variable Frequency with a fixed power budget is basically what allows them to clock so high. If they went with a fixed clock, it would be lower, because specific loads could result in unexpected spikes in power draw.

AegonSnake · Mar 20, 2020

Pheonix said:
Unfortunately, he has a really good point.

yep. Cerny should've made the gpu the priority, not the ssd.

$25 savings is a slightly smaller apu is going to end up costing them billions in lost digital revenue every year. Baffling design choice.

sncvsrtoip · Mar 20, 2020

Tupac_Senpai said:
Are you saying the official consumer-focused reveal from Sony wont't garner more views?

wouldn't be surprised, many thought this was official reveal with some gameplay

gundamkyoukai · Mar 20, 2020

Pheonix said:
Unfortunately, he has a really good point.

People will get left back like it happen with so many different tech things in the past even more so if we talking AAA games.
In the next 2 years don't be surprise if a mid level SSD in on the min specs for certain games.
Truth is he is looking at thing wrong not every game get made for 99% of the hardware to begin with even with scaling .

AegonSnake said:
yep. Cerny should've made the gpu the priority, not the ssd.

$25 savings is a slightly smaller apu is going to end up costing them billions in lost digital revenue every year. Baffling design choice.

How is it going to cost them billion of digital revenue ?
You think so many people going to jump ship even more so if we talking WW without knowing the price.
Then there fact that Sony first party can really show it off which can sell systems.

dgrdsv · Mar 20, 2020

AegonSnake said:
yep. Cerny should've made the gpu the priority, not the ssd.

$25 savings is a slightly smaller apu is going to end up costing them billions in lost digital revenue every year. Baffling design choice.

I think that this would actually be a mistake. They could've done with a wider GPU, yes (like maybe 44 CUs instead of 36), but the SSD is what may actually set PS5 apart from the competition. The GPU being sourced from the same tech provider wouldn't, and I think that this will be illustrated by XSX when most multiplatform games will have so minor visual gains on it when compared to PS5 that most people won't even notice them until DF or someone will point them out in their videos / posts.

Axel Stone · Mar 20, 2020

gundamkyoukai said:
People will get left back like it happen with so many different tech things in the past even more so if we talking AAA games.
In the next 2 years don't be surprise if a mid level SSD in on the min specs for certain games.
Truth is he is looking at thing wrong not every game get made for 99% of the hardware to begin with even with scaling .

His point isn't that SSDs won't become the baseline, he's arguing that the PS5's SSD will never become the baseline, so nobody will take advantage of it (although he seems to be discounting first parties because some PS4 games came out on PC, which is a bit of a reach, IMO).

gundamkyoukai · Mar 20, 2020

Axel Stone said:
His point isn't that SSDs won't become the baseline, he's arguing that the PS5's SSD will never become the baseline, so nobody will take advantage of it (although he seems to be discounting first parties because some PS4 games came out on PC, which is a bit of a reach, IMO).

I don't expect PS5 to be the base line i don't think anyone is just when we move to SSD it will have some advantages .
But SSD will change how games are made even if we go by XSX one or even a version that lower ( which he also think won't happen since he mention it)
Him thinking that big AAA games will build around HDD after a year or 2 is crazy talk.
Every gen min specs go up for games when new consoles come out it will be the same again .

nelsonroyale · Mar 20, 2020

DIEHARD said:
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While I agree some of his main thrust, I don't agree that there won't be PS5 exclusives that don't take advantage of the SSD in terms of fundamental game design. I also think at least for this generation, considerations of pontntial PC versions will not limit what devs do with with their games. PC sales are likely to account for a pretty small percentage of sales of Sony software, and they will be released at least a couple of years after. It is far more important for them to produce games that differentiate them from MS.

Afrikan · Mar 20, 2020

Pheonix said:
Unfortunately, he has a really good point.

have you checked his Twitter page?

MOD EDIT: We do not give a platform to this person or their content

Compare some of his tweets and videos to tweets from DF or videos from NX Gamer.

Tupac_Senpai · Mar 20, 2020

sncvsrtoip said:
wouldn't be surprised, many thought this was official reveal with some gameplay

I am willing to bet one PS5 exclusive gameplay trailer will garner more views...I am willing to bet, an official PS5 trailer will get more views. It amazes when games on the internet think the world is ending just because Sony released a boring Tech Talk of the P55. Yall are that bored? lol

Brohan · Mar 20, 2020

Afrikan said:
have you checked his Twitter page?

MOD EDIT: We do not give a platform to this person or their content

Not only that but he pulls alot of numbers from his ass in that video and says that even Sony's first party wont make full use of the SSD. I mean what? Ofcourse they are!

While it remains to be seen what kind of advantages the SSD will have in third party games remains to be seen but I'm fairly certain that's it's going to be more than just a second less loadtimes.

Also another one of his main points seems very very silly. He says that Pc's with HDD's are the lowest common denominator and that's why the SSD will be useless. That's just stupid. Eventually games will simply drop support for HDD's and require PC players to have an SSD. Just like how certain games require GPU's that support a higher version of Direct X to run.

I think it's safe to say that most of the gaming industry is going to leave HDD's behind. Thankfully!

mordecaii83 · Mar 20, 2020

Brohan said:
Not only that but he pulls alot of numbers from his ass in that video and says that even Sony's first party wont make full use of the SSD. I mean what? Ofcourse they are!

While it remains to be seen what kind of advantages the SSD will have in third party games remains to be seen but I'm fairly certain that's it's going to be more than just a second less loadtimes.

The biggest thing is the SSD should provide benefits without needing large amounts of extra work, so it's hard to believe that there will be zero benefits from third party games.

Pheonix · Mar 20, 2020

Jraphics Horse said:
I think SSD requirement for PC will come in more and more over time from the next year or two, but no multiplats will be able to require PS5 exclusive speeds for a long time obviously.
However PCs games do have a second direction to go for future required specs that consoles can't do, which is by having 64GB+ minimum RAM.

The issue isn't that SSDs wouldn't be required in the PC space eventually. Probably even as early as this year or next year. It's that not a single multiplat dev would build their game around the specific benefits that the PS5 has. That's because the PS5 would b the only platform in the world that would have it. The XSX SSD would be used as he base for any SSD based targets or engies, while the PS5 would easily be abe to handle whatever they accomplish there and even do it better, it would still not be designed for the PS5.

AegonSnake said:
yep. Cerny should've made the gpu the priority, not the ssd.

$25 savings is a slightly smaller apu is going to end up costing them billions in lost digital revenue every year. Baffling design choice.

Its not that bad, nowhere that bad actually. Especially if the PS5 is $399, which is beginning to look more and more likely. Sony and PlayStation would be fine, better than ever even... as long as they are around $100 cheaper than XSX.

I don' think they should've made the GPU the priority though, and I think that would become apparent once the game start to rollout. When people stat o see how hard it is to tell them apart then Cerny's choices would make more sense then.

I think you reattaching too much relevance o that 15% TF difference. just look at the Switch. Like seriously, all sony has to do is come in at $399 toMS $499. At that point, people would be saying why py $100 more for 15% more power that you wouldn't even be able to see.

sncvsrtoip · Mar 20, 2020

Tupac_Senpai said:
I am willing to bet one PS5 exclusive gameplay trailer will garner more views...I am willing to bet, an official PS5 trailer will get more views. It amazes when games on the internet think the world is ending just because Sony released a boring Tech Talk of the P55. Yall are that bored? lol

where did you get this world is ending ? as classic said "it's a toy" ;) btw I think ps5 hardware is good, xsx is just a little better
btw infamous xbox one tv conference watched only 600k (7 years so different times)

Brohan · Mar 20, 2020

mordecaii83 said:
The biggest thing is the SSD should provide benefits without needing large amounts of extra work, so it's hard to believe that there will be zero benefits from third party games.

Yeah, there might be less benefits. Especially when compared to first party games. But it's not like third party devs are going to ignore that extra speed. It's going to amount to more than just a second faster loading.

It's already tiring to see that one second loading line get repeated to death.

Sekiro · Mar 20, 2020

Afrikan said:
have you checked his Twitter page?

MOD EDIT: We do not give a platform to this person or their content

Compare some of his tweets and videos to tweets from DF or videos from NX Gamer.

Xbox Centric YouTuber

Not even hiding his biasism lol.

AegonSnake · Mar 20, 2020

dgrdsv said:
I think that this would actually be a mistake. They could've done with a wider GPU, yes (like maybe 44 CUs instead of 36), but the SSD is what may actually set PS5 apart from the competition. The GPU being sourced from the same tech provider wouldn't, and I think that this will be illustrated by XSX when most multiplatform games will have so minor visual gains on it when compared to PS5 that most people won't even notice them until DF or someone will point them out in their videos / posts.

Sony with ps4 and MS with the x1x have trained people to understand the difference between native 1080p and 900p and native 4k and not native 4k. people cant notice difference on youtube videos today and yet people have no problems telling which one is more powerful. sony will have to fight this mentality that they helped create last gen.

gundamkyoukai said:
How is it going to cost them billion of digital revenue ?
You think so many people going to jump ship even more so if we talking WW without knowing the price.
Then there fact that Sony first party can really show it off which can sell systems.

i brought this up earlier today. i dont think they go on to sell 110 million units next gen with a less powerful console even if it is at $399 because ms will have something for $299. they have effectively allowed themselves to get boxed in between a more powerful and a more affordable console. they are a jack of all trades, master of none.

i dont think they will bomb but i suspect MS goes up from 45 million to 75-80 million and sony drops from 110 million to 80 million. thats 30 million fewer users buying digital every year. thats billions in lost revenue from digital sales every year.

sony first party has had three duds in a row. days gone, death stranding and dreams. all absolutely fantastic games that for some reason bombed in sales and aside from dreams, got trashed by the critics for the most bizarre reasons. if people were so into these exclusives by sony, they wouldve sold gangbusters without the critical acclaim.

i dont think people would be willing to sacrifice their experience with 90% of the games just to get a taste of a few exclusives. but we will see i guess. i think we will see a repeat of the ps3 gen.

Manmademan · Mar 20, 2020

Pheonix said:
Its not that bad, nowhere that bad actually. Especially if the PS5 is $399, which is beginning to look more and more likely.

There is absolutely no way the PS5 launches at $399.

The PS4 launched at $399 in 2013, would be nearly $450 in current dollars, and that thing was nowhere close to being as advanced as the PS5 is compared to what is on the market.

sncvsrtoip · Mar 20, 2020

AegonSnake said:
i dont think people would be willing to sacrifice their experience with 90% of the games just to get a taste of a few exclusives. but we will see i guess. i think we will see a repeat of the ps3 gen.

I will. Don't have pc gaming setup, and my next console will be ps5. It don't bother me that will have 1800p or higher vs 4k, few more better exclusives is more important and I think many people think this way.

Axel Stone · Mar 20, 2020

Afrikan said:
have you checked his Twitter page?

MOD EDIT: We do not give a platform to this person or their content

Compare some of his tweets and videos to tweets from DF or videos from NX Gamer.

Regardless of that, his point is valid. He is talking crap about first parties, but he is right about the rest, there will be very few games that will really take advantage of that SSD to provide experiences that couldn't be had elsewhere.

Brohan · Mar 20, 2020

AegonSnake I think you need to take a break for a bit dude. Nobody is sacrificing their experience by buying a ps5. That 15% compute difference is not going to amount to any significant differences in the looks of the games nor will it impact the "experience" in any meaningful way.

I don't even know how to react to "it's going to be repeat of the PS3 generation."

Sony and the PS5 will be just fine and so will MS and the XsX. A possible upcoming recession might make things a bit more difficult for both and might require them to be more competitive in regards to their pricing but I don't see that as a bad thing perse.

CrispyGamer · Mar 20, 2020

Pheonix said:
Unfortunately, he has a really good point.

He lost me when he implied that Sony first party wouldn't take advantage of the SSD because of future titles going to PC but other than that he has a good point....the onus is on Sony to create API's that 3rd party devs can use without them having to completely change their own development pipeline so we'll see, but either way 1st party will set the standards that others will eventually follow.

Brohan · Mar 20, 2020

Axel Stone said:
Regardless of that, his point is valid. He is talking crap about first parties, but he is right about the rest, there will be very few games that will really take advantage of that SSD to provide experiences that couldn't be had elsewhere.

It's just a strange point to make isn't it? I don't think anyone is expecting every developer to design their game around Sony's SSD (only first party devs will design around it and maybe some third party exclusives) but that does not mean that developers won't make use of that speed at all.

They might not design their game around it but they will definitely use that speed where possible. Better loadtimes, faster streaming of assets, more assets, less pop in and who knows what else they can use it for without having to design their game around it.

He's also claiming that HDD's will be the lowest common denominator which is stupid. Support for HDD's will be dropped at some point. I expect any Next-gen only game that also releases on PC to require an SSD. People with an HDD will get left behind.

Mahonay · Mar 20, 2020

Brohan said:
AegonSnake I think you need to take a break for a bit dude. Nobody is sacrificing their experience by buying a ps5. That 15% compute difference is not going to amount to any significant differences in the looks of the games nor will it impact the "experience" in any meaningful way.

I don't even know how to react to "it's going to be repeat of the PS3 generation."

Sony and the PS5 will be just fine and so will MS and the XsX. A possible upcoming recession might make things a bit more difficult for both and might require them to be more competitive in regards to their pricing but I don't see that as a bad thing perse.

Yup.

Both consoles look great. And there's obviously way bigger concerns on what kind of shape the world will be in by the time they try to ship and release these consoles.

Sekiro · Mar 20, 2020

AegonSnake said:
Sony with ps4 and MS with the x1x have trained people to understand the difference between native 1080p and 900p and native 4k and not native 4k. people cant notice difference on youtube videos today and yet people have no problems telling which one is more powerful. sony will have to fight this mentality that they helped create last gen.

i brought this up earlier today. i dont think they go on to sell 110 million units next gen with a less powerful console even if it is at $399 because ms will have something for $299. they have effectively allowed themselves to get boxed in between a more powerful and a more affordable console. they are a jack of all trades, master of none.

i dont think they will bomb but i suspect MS goes up from 45 million to 75-80 million and sony drops from 110 million to 80 million. thats 30 million fewer users buying digital every year. thats billions in lost revenue from digital sales every year.

sony first party has had three duds in a row. days gone, death stranding and dreams. all absolutely fantastic games that for some reason bombed in sales and aside from dreams, got trashed by the critics for the most bizarre reasons. if people were so into these exclusives by sony, they wouldve sold gangbusters without the critical acclaim.

i dont think people would be willing to sacrifice their experience with 90% of the games just to get a taste of a few exclusives. but we will see i guess. i think we will see a repeat of the ps3 gen.

don't think the PS5 will only have a lifetime sales of just 80 million if they sell at $399, if it's the same price as the PS4 at launch and supports PS4 BC, many current PS4 owners will gradually switch top a PS5 playing their PS4 backlog while also playing the newer games, think that's what Sony meant by a "faster transition" this generation.

I mean imagine an alternate reality where the PS3 was cheaper than the X360 at launch by a little, it would've definetly hit the 100M mark before the PS4 comes out, price is what made the PS3 their worst selling console at the end of the day and yet they still caught up to their cheaper rival, same with the PS5, as long as they dont fuck up and sell at the same price or higher then the XSX the sales will be there year per year.

And about the lockhart, it may sound like a damn good fortnite, fifa, cod dudebro console for the next few years but what about halfway of the console cycle? by the time the next gen consoles starts showing their age and 4K adoption rates reach near 100% across the world that lockhart is kinda screwed.

Long story short the PS5 is a really high chance of also reaching the 100M near the end of their cycle (i predict around holiday 2025) as the previous generations have shown, as long as the next playstation console isn't crazy expensive, it'll sell hard, the Instagram post likes (highest gaming insta post ever) and the boring ass Road to PS5 (12m in 2 days compared to XSX reveal at 10m in 4 months) the hype is real for the console despite hoe many times they fuck up.

$399 = a winner to me.

Brohan · Mar 20, 2020

Mahonay said:
Yup.

Both consoles look great. And there's obviously way bigger concerns on what kind of shape the world will be in by the time they try to ship and release these consoles.

Yeah.. These are troubled times and I hope things get better soon.

gundamkyoukai · Mar 20, 2020

AegonSnake said:
i brought this up earlier today. i dont think they go on to sell 110 million units next gen with a less powerful console even if it is at $399 because ms will have something for $299. they have effectively allowed themselves to get boxed in between a more powerful and a more affordable console. they are a jack of all trades, master of none.

i dont think they will bomb but i suspect MS goes up from 45 million to 75-80 million and sony drops from 110 million to 80 million. thats 30 million fewer users buying digital every year. thats billions in lost revenue from digital sales every year.

sony first party has had three duds in a row. days gone, death stranding and dreams. all absolutely fantastic games that for some reason bombed in sales and aside from dreams, got trashed by the critics for the most bizarre reasons. if people were so into these exclusives by sony, they wouldve sold gangbusters without the critical acclaim.

i dont think people would be willing to sacrifice their experience with 90% of the games just to get a taste of a few exclusives. but we will see i guess. i think we will see a repeat of the ps3 gen.

For the PS3 gen to happen again MS would have to out sell Sony by 20 million is the USA .
You say people not willing to sacrifice their experience with 90% of the games but then talking about the $300 console.
Also it has been show that when it comes to value a lot of the middle ground products sell the most so $399 will be attractive price if they get to it.
There tons of market research on that stuff should give it a read which things like brand etc etc come into play.
Then there other factors like the money people spend on DD games over the gen etc etc .

Side note DG did not bomb lol

Marble · Mar 20, 2020

AegonSnake said:
Sony with ps4 and MS with the x1x have trained people to understand the difference between native 1080p and 900p and native 4k and not native 4k. people cant notice difference on youtube videos today and yet people have no problems telling which one is more powerful. sony will have to fight this mentality that they helped create last gen.

i brought this up earlier today. i dont think they go on to sell 110 million units next gen with a less powerful console even if it is at $399 because ms will have something for $299. they have effectively allowed themselves to get boxed in between a more powerful and a more affordable console. they are a jack of all trades, master of none.

i dont think they will bomb but i suspect MS goes up from 45 million to 75-80 million and sony drops from 110 million to 80 million. thats 30 million fewer users buying digital every year. thats billions in lost revenue from digital sales every year.

sony first party has had three duds in a row. days gone, death stranding and dreams. all absolutely fantastic games that for some reason bombed in sales and aside from dreams, got trashed by the critics for the most bizarre reasons. if people were so into these exclusives by sony, they wouldve sold gangbusters without the critical acclaim.

i dont think people would be willing to sacrifice their experience with 90% of the games just to get a taste of a few exclusives. but we will see i guess. i think we will see a repeat of the ps3 gen.

PS5 will easily sell 100 million. Especially with proper BC. If Sony continues it's exclusive streak, it will be a piece of cake. Just look at the social media traction. Even the announcement of the deep dive announcement surpassed the Series X thread (which was already active for days) Within hours. People are really underestimating Sony.

Brohan · Mar 20, 2020

I'm having a hard time imagining the PS5 to sell for $399, the specs just seem way to good for that. If they do manage to sell it for $399 though then it's going to be an easy repeat of their current success I feel.

That would be a steal.

PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny

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