"PlayStation 5 Will Be Dead on Arrival with Sony's 'Hardcore Gamer' Strategy"

Astronut325

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,896
Los Angeles, CA
What the hell is it lately with all those op-eds that are super positive about Microsoft's future and super negative about Sony's future? I swear it's like Microsoft has put forth some sort of major media bribery campaign in place to swerve the public opinion in their favor. It can't just be coincidence.
This same thing happened prior to the release of the PS4 and even the first full year after release. This seems to be a recurring narrative at console gen transitions. From a very cursory glance, the hardcore crowd hasn’t really grown the past few generations. So to analysts and tech bloggers, it looks like the growth needs to come from elsewhere. With Cloud and other tech that looks to broaden the horizon, they feel that a major tech company like MS is best positioned to dominate. And to analysts, the resources available to MS are far greater than anything Sony and Nintendo have.

This, however, ignores key drivers of game sales and console sales, especially at the early part of the generation. People are not warming up to more subscriptions, and the casuals want to game on their phone. And the games they want to play don’t require any upfront money and likewise for subscriptions.

They’re simply looking at it from a financial and technological standpoint, not the business and overall strategy standpoint.
 

Dance Inferno

Member
Oct 29, 2017
669
I know a lot of people in this thread are all "CCN ololol", but I think it's actually an interesting thought experiment to think about whether Sony can continue its momentum. Just because Sony is in the lead right now, doesn't mean they're going to maintain that lead next gen; the leader has flipped in every gen so far. Sony was the leader in the PS2 era, then it was the Xbox 360, then the PS4, and honestly now the Switch is taking off like a rocket. Most customers don't have huge brand loyalty to one box over another, especially when most of the market is playing multiplatform games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed.

A big reason why the PS4 succeeded at the beginning of the gen was because the alternative (Microsoft) was completely tone deaf and not focused on gamers. Microsoft today is very different from Microsoft 7 years ago, and I'm convinced they're going to bring the heat next gen. They proved they can make a fantastic console with the Xbox One X, they've been ahead of the curve on backwards compatibility and cross-play and subscription gaming, and they're definitely going to be better than Sony at streaming given their cloud infrastructure. I think it would be silly to write off Xbox just because Sony is currently in the lead.

Another thing to mention is that while Sony has a lock on epic, narrative-driven exclusives (God of War, The Last of Us, etc.), Microsoft is much stronger in the multiplayer arena (Halo, Gears of War, Forza). If they can build out their stable with a handful of truly compelling multiplayer offerings (Sea of Thieves, Bleeding Edge, etc.) then the massive chunk of the market that plays multiplayer games could be swayed towards the Xbox.
 

Ogodei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,115
North Jackson High
You'd think it's impossible given Sony's current position, but there are at least superficial resemblances to the PS3 strategy (though with Cerny rather than Kutaragi at the helm you're not going to get the relentlessly bad design decisions that hampered the PS3).
 

N.Domixis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,149
What the hell is it lately with all those op-eds that are super positive about Microsoft's future and super negative about Sony's future? I swear it's like Microsoft has put forth some sort of major media bribery campaign in place to swerve the public opinion in their favor. It can't just be coincidence.
Going to keep my eyes open for any shenanigans as we enter next gen.
 

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
2,212
It could price out a big chunk of gamers? No shit sherlock. Out of 7BN, only 100M people bought a PS4. They're already pricing out a shit ton of people.
 

tutomos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
560
I know a lot of people in this thread are all "CCN ololol", but I think it's actually an interesting thought experiment to think about whether Sony can continue its momentum. Just because Sony is in the lead right now, doesn't mean they're going to maintain that lead next gen; the leader has flipped in every gen so far. Sony was the leader in the PS2 era, then it was the Xbox 360, then the PS4, and honestly now the Switch is taking off like a rocket. Most customers don't have huge brand loyalty to one box over another, especially when most of the market is playing multiplatform games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed.

A big reason why the PS4 succeeded at the beginning of the gen was because the alternative (Microsoft) was completely tone deaf and not focused on gamers. Microsoft today is very different from Microsoft 7 years ago, and I'm convinced they're going to bring the heat next gen. They proved they can make a fantastic console with the Xbox One X, they've been ahead of the curve on backwards compatibility and cross-play and subscription gaming, and they're definitely going to be better than Sony at streaming given their cloud infrastructure. I think it would be silly to write off Xbox just because Sony is currently in the lead.

Another thing to mention is that while Sony has a lock on epic, narrative-driven exclusives (God of War, The Last of Us, etc.), Microsoft is much stronger in the multiplayer arena (Halo, Gears of War, Forza). If they can build out their stable with a handful of truly compelling multiplayer offerings (Sea of Thieves, Bleeding Edge, etc.) then the massive chunk of the market that plays multiplayer games could be swayed towards the Xbox.
Those are some valid points but MS already bought the heat a year ago, and the result is not too different.
 

DeuceGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,464
Sony will start the generation off in significantly better position than Microsoft. Nintendo is a different story, but I think most view Microsoft as Sony’s biggest competitor.

Sony has a much better presence in regions outside of North America. This is important when looking at the how each console will perform worldwide.

Sony is far more popular in Japan, which will make it easier to get Japanese Developers and Publishers on board. The big Publishers will probably continue a multi platform strategy but there will definitely be some Japanese Developers who end up Developing Exclusives, or some combination of Sony, Nintendo, and PC multiplats.

Sony’s 1st Party output is miles ahead of Microsoft currently. MS has started to work to close the gap, but Sony has reached a point with their 1st Party where they are consistently putting out top tier releases and MS isn’t likely to match that at the start of the generation.

Sony also has the benefit of being the market leader this gen. With Digital Distribution being a big part of this gen, its a benefit for Sony as consumers will be more likely to stick with the ecosystem they have bought into, barring a good reason to leave.

It’s not impossible for Microsoft to win the gen as anything can happen, but nothing I see points to the PS5 being “dead on arrival”.
 

N.Domixis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,149
its embarrassing how the western gaming press want sony to fail and xbox to win so much. Happened last gen, happened start of this gen and looks like it will happen again.

Is there some nationality bias going on or what?
Those who grew up on 360 are now grown up and decision makers. Trying to push a narrative.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,105
Austin, TX
Sony will start the generation off in significantly better position than Microsoft. Nintendo is a different story, but I think most view Microsoft as Sony’s biggest competitor.

Sony has a much better presence in regions outside of North America. This is important when looking at the how each console will perform worldwide.

Sony is far more popular in Japan, which will make it easier to get Japanese Developers and Publishers on board. The big Publishers will probably continue a multi platform strategy but there will definitely be some Japanese Developers who end up Developing Exclusives, or some combination of Sony, Nintendo, and PC multiplats.

Sony’s 1st Party output is miles ahead of Microsoft currently. MS has started to work to close the gap, but Sony has reached a point with their 1st Party where they are consistently putting out top tier releases and MS isn’t likely to match that at the start of the generation.

Sony also has the benefit of being the market leader this gen. With Digital Distribution being a big part of this gen, its a benefit for Sony as consumers will be more likely to stick with the ecosystem they have bought into, barring a good reason to leave.

It’s not impossible for Microsoft to win the gen as anything can happen, but nothing I see points to the PS5 being “dead on arrival”.
Yep. Good post.
 

Dance Inferno

Member
Oct 29, 2017
669
Well they won gen 5 with PS1 and gen 6 with PS2, so a winning streak can be continued.
Sure, I'm not saying it's impossible. Just that it shouldn't be the default expectation.

Those are some valid points but MS already bought the heat a year ago, and the result is not too different.
Yeah but that new console was a continuation of the Xbox One, which was already losing the market share war. The X was never going to turn the ship around this gen. However, it does show that MS can still make a damn good console, which will help it as we wipe the slate clean and move on to next gen.
 

Jtwo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
607
Pretty insane headline.
Sony is in a position to miss out on a potential “blue ocean” of gamers that would never buy a console in the first place.. but all of that seems extremely up in the air still. This seems like a headline from the end of the next gen, not this one.

There’s a small breeze blowing in the direction of cloud gaming, I’m not certain the storm will really hit and cause damage to the status quo. With the timeframe I’m imagining it will take, I could easily see Sony being in a position to compete.

It’s interesting to think about.
I’ll certainly never buy another Xbox but that’s because I’m PC gamer.. but that I means I already have an Xbox? I’m using gamepass on PC and it’s super chill. That’s a win for Microsoft but it means I’ll be buying Sony hardware as the generation turns over.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,487
You'd think it's impossible given Sony's current position, but there are at least superficial resemblances to the PS3 strategy (though with Cerny rather than Kutaragi at the helm you're not going to get the relentlessly bad design decisions that hampered the PS3).
Is the superficial resemblance that the PS5 is an odd number like the PS3?
 

Paragraf

Member
May 31, 2019
97
Russia
I could've somehow understand his point, but this "harcore" games for "niche" audiences are outselling big multiplatform games.
 
Feb 8, 2018
1,415
The writer thinks that someone who doesn't play daily,weekly, even monthly can't be viewed as a Hardcore gamer. In certain periods I only use my PS4 rarely and I consider myself HC. I want to get to the end of stories, I don't like A.I that is too easy and I want to win in competitive MP games even if the frequency of my play time can be different depending on my life situation.

Dead on arrival? There would be 100 other reasons they'd have a bad launch lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,353
I know a lot of people in this thread are all "CCN ololol", but I think it's actually an interesting thought experiment to think about whether Sony can continue its momentum. Just because Sony is in the lead right now, doesn't mean they're going to maintain that lead next gen; the leader has flipped in every gen so far. Sony was the leader in the PS2 era, then it was the Xbox 360, then the PS4, and honestly now the Switch is taking off like a rocket. Most customers don't have huge brand loyalty to one box over another, especially when most of the market is playing multiplatform games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed.

A big reason why the PS4 succeeded at the beginning of the gen was because the alternative (Microsoft) was completely tone deaf and not focused on gamers. Microsoft today is very different from Microsoft 7 years ago, and I'm convinced they're going to bring the heat next gen. They proved they can make a fantastic console with the Xbox One X, they've been ahead of the curve on backwards compatibility and cross-play and subscription gaming, and they're definitely going to be better than Sony at streaming given their cloud infrastructure. I think it would be silly to write off Xbox just because Sony is currently in the lead.

Another thing to mention is that while Sony has a lock on epic, narrative-driven exclusives (God of War, The Last of Us, etc.), Microsoft is much stronger in the multiplayer arena (Halo, Gears of War, Forza). If they can build out their stable with a handful of truly compelling multiplayer offerings (Sea of Thieves, Bleeding Edge, etc.) then the massive chunk of the market that plays multiplayer games could be swayed towards the Xbox.
MS can certainly improve their position in the market and I think they will. I just think the idea that MS will take from Sony isn't well thought out. If Sony launches without any problems (or at least mostly minor issues), it is almost guaranteed for Sony to do very well. They are the only one that covers the high power (not Nintendo) worldwide (not MS) console market.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
5,877

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
340
I know a lot of people in this thread are all "CCN ololol", but I think it's actually an interesting thought experiment to think about whether Sony can continue its momentum. Just because Sony is in the lead right now, doesn't mean they're going to maintain that lead next gen; the leader has flipped in every gen so far. Sony was the leader in the PS2 era, then it was the Xbox 360, then the PS4, and honestly now the Switch is taking off like a rocket. Most customers don't have huge brand loyalty to one box over another, especially when most of the market is playing multiplatform games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed.

A big reason why the PS4 succeeded at the beginning of the gen was because the alternative (Microsoft) was completely tone deaf and not focused on gamers. Microsoft today is very different from Microsoft 7 years ago, and I'm convinced they're going to bring the heat next gen. They proved they can make a fantastic console with the Xbox One X, they've been ahead of the curve on backwards compatibility and cross-play and subscription gaming, and they're definitely going to be better than Sony at streaming given their cloud infrastructure. I think it would be silly to write off Xbox just because Sony is currently in the lead.

Another thing to mention is that while Sony has a lock on epic, narrative-driven exclusives (God of War, The Last of Us, etc.), Microsoft is much stronger in the multiplayer arena (Halo, Gears of War, Forza). If they can build out their stable with a handful of truly compelling multiplayer offerings (Sea of Thieves, Bleeding Edge, etc.) then the massive chunk of the market that plays multiplayer games could be swayed towards the Xbox.
All your points in the First make sense....if the whole World was the USA.
 
Oct 27, 2017
622
I can't wait to see these threads bumped in a few years like we do with the threads on gaf about how playstation is a dead brand before the PS4 was announced
 
Dec 4, 2017
4,269
Brazil
It is always the same talk smh
"Company that is in the last place will take over because reasons since the strategy taken by the number one will for some reason not work anymore"
 

Mass Effect

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,837
Going back through the thread, I am completely unsurprised that there are a few drive-by troll posts by from some usual suspects.
 
Dec 4, 2017
4,269
Brazil
Sony was the leader in the PS2 era, then it was the Xbox 360, then the PS4, and honestly now the Switch is taking off like a rocket. Most customers don't have huge brand loyalty to one box over another, especially when most of the market is playing multiplatform games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed.
Sony won with Ps1, Ps2
Nintendo won with Wii
Microsoft never took the lead, ever
 

fossi8

Member
Apr 22, 2018
216
Not even at $500 introduction price will stop Sony selling the PS5 like hotcakes.

I see at its only threat MS Gamepass and the development of streaming services in the next 2-3 years.
 

yxba

Member
Oct 29, 2017
99
Steinbach, Manitoba
The gaming hardcore is niche compared with the several billion people on earth who play video games. But what the writer of this article aptly named "Harsh" fails to realize is that the small number of hardcore gamers spend a lot of money on games and they encourage their friends to buy the system that they have deemed to be most acceptable. It starts at the hardcore and then spreads out from there.
 

mr teaspoon

Member
Feb 22, 2018
100
Fine if you think Sony will maintain the lead, but so tired of all these 'They do it on purpose for the clicks!' takes.

There are intelligent, reasonable arguments that can be made for why Microsoft's focus and infrastructure could more line up with where gaming is going than the PlayStation.
 

domthybomb

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,599
Sure, I'm not saying it's impossible. Just that it shouldn't be the default expectation.



Yeah but that new console was a continuation of the Xbox One, which was already losing the market share war. The X was never going to turn the ship around this gen. However, it does show that MS can still make a damn good console, which will help it as we wipe the slate clean and move on to next gen.
It absolutely should be the default expectation though. They've been dominate in 3/4 gens while even at their worst, still sold a bunch with PS3.
 

Euler.L.

Member
Mar 29, 2019
714
Congratulations Microsoft, you are market leader without selling a meaningful amount of consoles or subscriptions right now.
 

Euler.L.

Member
Mar 29, 2019
714
Fine if you think Sony will maintain the lead, but so tired of all these 'They do it on purpose for the clicks!' takes.

There are intelligent, reasonable arguments that can be made for why Microsoft's focus and infrastructure could more line up with where gaming is going than the PlayStation.
Microsoft is badly outsold by two companies which don't get it "right". If that isn't telling.
 

Sol Mori

Member
Jun 10, 2018
105
I know a lot of people in this thread are all "CCN ololol", but I think it's actually an interesting thought experiment to think about whether Sony can continue its momentum. Just because Sony is in the lead right now, doesn't mean they're going to maintain that lead next gen; the leader has flipped in every gen so far. Sony was the leader in the PS2 era, then it was the Xbox 360, then the PS4, and honestly now the Switch is taking off like a rocket. Most customers don't have huge brand loyalty to one box over another, especially when most of the market is playing multiplatform games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed.

A big reason why the PS4 succeeded at the beginning of the gen was because the alternative (Microsoft) was completely tone deaf and not focused on gamers. Microsoft today is very different from Microsoft 7 years ago, and I'm convinced they're going to bring the heat next gen. They proved they can make a fantastic console with the Xbox One X, they've been ahead of the curve on backwards compatibility and cross-play and subscription gaming, and they're definitely going to be better than Sony at streaming given their cloud infrastructure. I think it would be silly to write off Xbox just because Sony is currently in the lead.

Another thing to mention is that while Sony has a lock on epic, narrative-driven exclusives (God of War, The Last of Us, etc.), Microsoft is much stronger in the multiplayer arena (Halo, Gears of War, Forza). If they can build out their stable with a handful of truly compelling multiplayer offerings (Sea of Thieves, Bleeding Edge, etc.) then the massive chunk of the market that plays multiplayer games could be swayed towards the Xbox.
Are we just going to ignore the Wii? The 360 was not the leader of its generation and English speaking games media is entirely too full of people that don’t understand that the world contains more than the US and the UK.

No, the next Xbox isn’t going to do better than the PS5. If Microsoft wants to sell more systems they’re still not choosing a strategy to do so. Game pass and xcloud aren’t going to do shit if Microsoft still refuses to put any effort whatsoever in more than just the English speaking markets.

Too many people love to go on about market resets with each generation and completely undersell what Sony has actually accomplished with the PlayStation brand. Yet once again clearly the company that was the market leader in 3 out of 4 of its home consoles and virtually tying for 2nd the one time it wasn’t is somehow doomed to irrelevance.

Also, I still firmly believe that the Xbox one release was not a disaster for Microsoft like everyone makes it out to be. Did they repeat the success of the 360? No, but Sony also didn’t release the PS4 a year later and for hundreds of dollars more. The XB1 isn’t the anomaly in the Xbox brand, the 360 was. What we saw with the XB1 vs the PS4 is what happens when Sony doesn’t allow hubris to take full control.
 

Dance Inferno

Member
Oct 29, 2017
669
It absolutely should be the default expectation though. They've been dominate in 3/4 gens while even at their worst, still sold a bunch with PS3.
They were the leader in 2/3 gens with MS, and arguably the reason they won this gen was because MS was cocky and tone deaf. I think next gen is going to be a different story.

Listen, if I had to put money on it I would bet on PS5. What I'm saying though is that Sony will really have to bring its A game to win. All this talk about "look at all the current PS4" users doesn't mean much when you have to get everyone to buy a new box. MS could very realistically release an amazing system, build up word of mouth, and eventually emerge as the dominant platform.
 
Dec 4, 2017
4,269
Brazil
It absolutely should be the default expectation though. They've been dominate in 3/4 gens while even at their worst, still sold a bunch with PS3.
yeah

I don't get how people always say this
Sony's lowest is Microsoft highest regarding console sales. This isn't about the quality or services, it's just numbers. There is a strong market for Sony's consoles and we have no sign of change.
I do believe MS has potential but we have 0 evidence that they will take the lead, going above Nintendo and Sony.
Which doesn't mean they won't have a successful generation, there is money from different sources nowadays. They have my gamepass sub o/
 

CryptiK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,707
Remember when the Xbox One decided not to focus on Hardcore Gaming? I do and look where it got it.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,487
Fine if you think Sony will maintain the lead, but so tired of all these 'They do it on purpose for the clicks!' takes.

There are intelligent, reasonable arguments that can be made for why Microsoft's focus and infrastructure could more line up with where gaming is going than the PlayStation.
The title of the article is 100% written like that to bring in clicks. 100%.
 

LakLak

Member
Jul 4, 2019
153
I know a lot of people in this thread are all "CCN ololol", but I think it's actually an interesting thought experiment to think about whether Sony can continue its momentum. Just because Sony is in the lead right now, doesn't mean they're going to maintain that lead next gen; the leader has flipped in every gen so far. Sony was the leader in the PS2 era, then it was the Xbox 360, then the PS4, and honestly now the Switch is taking off like a rocket. Most customers don't have huge brand loyalty to one box over another, especially when most of the market is playing multiplatform games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed.

A big reason why the PS4 succeeded at the beginning of the gen was because the alternative (Microsoft) was completely tone deaf and not focused on gamers. Microsoft today is very different from Microsoft 7 years ago, and I'm convinced they're going to bring the heat next gen. They proved they can make a fantastic console with the Xbox One X, they've been ahead of the curve on backwards compatibility and cross-play and subscription gaming, and they're definitely going to be better than Sony at streaming given their cloud infrastructure. I think it would be silly to write off Xbox just because Sony is currently in the lead.

Another thing to mention is that while Sony has a lock on epic, narrative-driven exclusives (God of War, The Last of Us, etc.), Microsoft is much stronger in the multiplayer arena (Halo, Gears of War, Forza). If they can build out their stable with a handful of truly compelling multiplayer offerings (Sea of Thieves, Bleeding Edge, etc.) then the massive chunk of the market that plays multiplayer games could be swayed towards the Xbox.
- The Switch's success won't hinder PS5 success. If anything it's the Switch I'm worried about. What will happen when all the attention of dev and players shift to the "next-generation" ? What will happen when the technical gap between this next-generation and the Switch become even greater than it is now ? What will happen if the Switch Lite completely overtake the OG model and people start to consider the Switch as a pure handheld ? Don't forget the PS4 still sold the best of all the consoles in 2018, despite people wrongly thinking the Switch would take over. Sony would need a big fuck up to lose their momentum.

- The Xbox brand must recover from an uphill situation. The 360 didn't sold twice as much as the PS3. The Xbox One must recover from a shit situation and the power of the Xbox brand clearly didn't help that much, like it did for the PS3. I doubt streaming and backward compability will make it up for it. Speaking real about their bad situation isn't writing them off, it's just being realistic.

- The brand loyalty for Playstation is strong. I'd even argue it's the brand loyalty that saved the PS3 from the flop. It could have been much worse. Playstation is one of the most powerful brand and one of the most well known name in the tech-industry.

It's the third most well-known brand in the UK for example. https://www.prophet.com/relevantbrands-2018/united-kingdom/top-10/#PlayStation

Sony, as a whole, is the second company japanese are the most proud of. Nintendo being seventh, as a comparison. https://japantoday.com/category/national/companies-japanese-people-are-most-proud-of

- Multiplayer from first-party doesn't matter that much anymore. Third party multiplayers are where it's at in terms of sales, impact and number of players. (Rocket League, Fortnite, Fifa, Overwatch, COD...).

- It's foolish to consider games like Sea of Thieves and Bleeding Edge to have a real impact on the market. Games like those aren't king makers.

I'm not that interested in the PS5 that much, I'm more a Switch Lite kind of guy (won't lie), but let's be honest and tell it how it is : unless something BIG happen, the PS5 is on the path to be a massive success, probably even bigger than the PS4.