"PlayStation 5 Will Be Dead on Arrival with Sony's 'Hardcore Gamer' Strategy"

Phantom88

Member
Jan 7, 2018
449
Might be, but won’t matter much if they don’t deliver with the exclusives.
Exclusives matter extremely little. They're only overblown on places like this. Exclusives have extremely low percentage of adoption. Game like God of War sold to like 10% of ps4's install base and thats a rare blockbuster game. Most sell less.

Microsoft needs to deliver on gaming as a whole, not exclusives. People buy consoles to play games - all games, not cherry pick 2 exclusives per year
 

Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,944
Indonesia
Sony never got respect, don't have the backing of Ms money and windows, don't have the prestige of Nintendo developer and brand to succeed entirely on software even with less powerful hardware.

Sony succeed often come with qualifier like ms misstep, or reliance on 3rd party dev that may changed at any moment, etc.
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,368
This sounds pretty wrong. Of course the console will only be successful if it caters to hardcore and casuals alike, but Sony nabbed deals for games like COD and FIFA in the PS4 era for a reason.
 

Iztok Mravlja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,139
"Experts" have always misunderstood this industry, I feel like this comes up every gen.
Pretty sure Sony knows their customers better than some financial analysts.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,487
Microsoft needs to deliver on gaming as a whole, not exclusives. People buy consoles to play games - all games, not cherry pick 2 exclusives per year
But those exclusives help differentiate the consoles from one another, because as you say people buy consoles to play all the games (third party games). Which just so happens to usually be on both MS and Sony consoles.
 

bane833

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,272
Exclusives matter extremely little.
This is wrong and that has been shown time and time again. The Switch is pretty much selling on the back of exclusives alone.

And it doesn’t matter if a single exclusive game only sells to 10% of the userbase as there are several.

Gran Turismo appeals to a different audience than Ratchet and Clank or God of War or Bloodborne or Spider-Man or TLoU or Dreams or Persona 5. That’s why it’s important to have a broad variety of high quality exclusives. You want to appeal to as many people as possible.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
3,980
Exclusives matter, 3rd party support matters, and overall mindshare is very important,.

PS4 had all of these going for it this gen.
 

Phantom88

Member
Jan 7, 2018
449
This is wrong and that has been shown time and time again. The Switch is pretty much selling on the back of exclusives alone.
switch is different than xbox and playstation. Show me how it was "proven" that exclusives matter as whole? The very top tier titles sell to 10% or less of the install base and most of them to much less. They DO NOT matter in the way people on forums like this that have personal allegiances to manufacturers like to think they do. Of course they matter to some people. But they're not the ones that sell a hundred million consoles
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,665
This is wrong and that has been shown time and time again. The Switch is pretty much selling on the back of exclusives alone.

And it doesn’t matter if a single exclusive game only sells to 10% of the userbase as there are several.

Gran Turismo appeals to a different audience than Ratchet and Clank or God of War or Bloodborne or Spider-Man or TLoU or Dreams or Persona 5. That’s why it’s important to have a broad variety of high quality exclusives. You want to appeal to as many people as possible.
Not saying that this is the norm for everyone but power matters a lot as well.

I went from 360 to PS4 simply because I wanted the best version of multiplats, the big exclusives didn’t arrive until 2 years later. Perfectly happy with my purchase.

And I went with an Xbox One X instead of a PS4 Pro simply because I wanted the best version of multiplats, the big exclusives still haven’t arrived 2 years later. Perfectly happy with my purchase.
 

bane833

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,272
switch is different than xbox and playstation. Show me how it was "proven" that exclusives matter as whole? The very top tier titles sell to 10% or less of the install base and most of them to much less. They DO NOT matter in the way people on forums like this that have personal allegiances to manufacturers like to think they do. Of course they matter to some people. But they're not the ones that sell a hundred million consoles
Every single successful console ever blew up on the back of big exclusive games. Sales of the first PlayStation went through the roof after it started getting games like FF VII, Gran Turismo, Tekken 2 etc.
Same for PS2 with Gran Turismo 3, GTA 3, Devil May Cry and others. And none of them sold to much more than 10% of the entire userbase.
 

Phantom88

Member
Jan 7, 2018
449
Every single successful console ever blew up on the back of big exclusive games. Sales of the first PlayStation went through the roof after it started getting games like FF VII, Gran Turismo, Tekken 2 etc.
Same for PS2 with Gran Turismo 3, GTA 3, Devil May Cry and others. And none of them sold to much more than 10% of the entire userbase.

Thats not the case now. It was then. You get like one or two exclusives per year now, and sony's exclusives we have to admit target much of the same audience. They make story driven cinematic singleplayer games. The audience overlaps. Consoles now share nearly all of their games, its not like how it was in the 90's.

Every sale chart is filled 90 or 100% with third party games now. People buy a console to play Fifa, Madden, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed. Thats the bulk of the audience. Thats not to say exclusives are worthless, they're not. But i do not stand by the idea that they're the ones selling consoles and i dont agree with their overblown importance we give them on forums
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
615
Wow I thought this shit only happened to Nintendo with the doom. Can't just be called Nintendoomd anymore. Shame there's not a catchy name for Sony and Microsoft equivalents.
 

boi

Member
Nov 1, 2017
906
The last outlet that I would think is believable regarding this topic is any of the large American mainstream broadcast networks.

Unfortunately, although gaming is bigger than ever, they still don’t understand how the industry works.
 

Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
1,307
Thats not the case now. It was then. You get like one or two exclusives per year now, and sony's exclusives we have to admit target much of the same audience. They make story driven cinematic singleplayer games. The audience overlaps. Consoles now share nearly all of their games, its not like how it was in the 90's.

Every sale chart is filled 90 or 100% with third party games now. People buy a console to play Fifa, Madden, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed. Thats the bulk of the audience. Thats not to say exclusives are worthless, they're not. But i do not stand by the idea that they're the ones selling consoles and i dont agree with their overblown importance we give them on forums
Batlefield or madden sold less that 10%.....

Peopel by a console to play that game of choice, there is more to selling a console that just games:

Price, hardware, brand, games and what not.

Exckusives allows one to selll console and that is the truth, there is a reason why the sales of a console increase when it is bundle with a exclusive title.
 

Ruslnis

Member
Feb 26, 2018
1,956
Thats not the case now. It was then. You get like one or two exclusives per year now, and sony's exclusives we have to admit target much of the same audience. They make story driven cinematic singleplayer games. The audience overlaps. Consoles now share nearly all of their games, its not like how it was in the 90's.

Every sale chart is filled 90 or 100% with third party games now. People buy a console to play Fifa, Madden, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed. Thats the bulk of the audience. Thats not to say exclusives are worthless, they're not. But i do not stand by the idea that they're the ones selling consoles and i dont agree with their overblown importance we give them on forums
If exclusive software doesnt matter than why ps4 is so far away in sales? Xbox got the same 3rd party games you were talking about and its cheaper most of the time.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,809
An entire article based entirely on a guess at an expensive launch price, 'supported' by Pachter. Yeah, okay.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
481
Seattle
The last outlet that I would think is believable regarding this topic is any of the large American mainstream broadcast networks.

Unfortunately, although gaming is bigger than ever, they still don’t understand how the industry works.
It’s not in their interest to understand how the gaming industry works. They understand how modern media works: thinly veiled sponsored content and click-baiting to drive advertising revenue. After all, none of the readership actually pays for the content so you need to understand who does.
 

TsuWave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,675
Exclusives matter extremely little. They're only overblown on places like this. Exclusives have extremely low percentage of adoption. Game like God of War sold to like 10% of ps4's install base and thats a rare blockbuster game.
stating the percentage of install base to which an exclusive managed to sell to to argue exclusives matter very little is such a flawed argument
 

Miles Davis

Member
Jun 22, 2019
161
Exclusives matter extremely little. They're only overblown on places like this. Exclusives have extremely low percentage of adoption. Game like God of War sold to like 10% of ps4's install base and thats a rare blockbuster game. Most sell less.

Microsoft needs to deliver on gaming as a whole, not exclusives. People buy consoles to play games - all games, not cherry pick 2 exclusives per year
Sony built their entire brand on exclusive trust with their gamers lol.
 

RestEerie

Member
Aug 20, 2018
5,473
Sony never got respect, don't have the backing of Ms money and windows, don't have the prestige of Nintendo developer and brand to succeed entirely on software even with less powerful hardware.

Sony succeed often come with qualifier like ms misstep, or reliance on 3rd party dev that may changed at any moment, etc.
hey, speak for yourself. I respective Sony 1st party devs.
Naughty Dog is a brand name by itself at this stage.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,653
I will say I have a weird feeling about Sony going into the PS5 next gen.

And yes I'm aware they haven't even shown it off yet.

Just cuz PS4 was a massive success doesn't mean the PS5 will be. Every gen is different.
This is my feeling too.

Won’t be a bomb by any means, but I think lots of people here take it for granted. You see a common sentiment that they’re guaranteed to blow it out of the water but with most gens that’s not the case. We really need to see more before jumping to those conclusions
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
340
Sony never got respect, don't have the backing of Ms money and windows, don't have the prestige of Nintendo developer and brand to succeed entirely on software even with less powerful hardware.

Sony succeed often come with qualifier like ms misstep, or reliance on 3rd party dev that may changed at any moment, etc.
Is this a joke Post?

Playstation is a much bigger brand than Nintendo in Europe. They won 2 other generations by simply putting out better Games. To top that off, the PS4 is the First time a Sony console had better hardware than the competition.
 

nib95

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,389
Exclusives matter extremely little. They're only overblown on places like this. Exclusives have extremely low percentage of adoption. Game like God of War sold to like 10% of ps4's install base and thats a rare blockbuster game. Most sell less.

Microsoft needs to deliver on gaming as a whole, not exclusives. People buy consoles to play games - all games, not cherry pick 2 exclusives per year
This is such a silly take. Yes games matter, but exclusives are what differentiate platforms, and as evidenced by software sales, several of the PS4's exclusives have piqued the interest of the install base more than 99% of other games released on the platform. Spider-man, God of War, Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn and The Last of Us Remastered, are likely all in the top 20 best selling games on the system world wide (PS4 only), and the system has 2,102 games.

By your install base logic, 99.99% of games released and available for a system don't actually matter, and all a console needs is Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto. Hell, where do you even draw the line in terms of relevant software tie ratio for a game to matter? By the very same logic, Call of Duty arguably doesn't matter either, since it only sells to between roughly 8% to 14% of the PS4's install base.

The PS4's attach ratio is 9.6, meaning on average each PS4 user has purchased a minimum of 10 games. Think about how high that is for a console that has sold 100m systems. Exclusives matter a hell of a lot, as evidenced by the super high sales of several of Sony's exclusives (that have as mentioned, sold better than 99% of games available on the system), just as games in general do too.
 
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Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,944
Indonesia
Is this a joke Post?

Playstation is a much bigger brand than Nintendo in Europe. They won 2 other generations by simply putting out better Games. To top that off, the PS4 is the First time a Sony console had better hardware than the competition.
Obviously it's a joke, but people seem to often underestimate Sony. I don't know how many times I've seen people saying Sony only won because MS messed up at the beginning of this gen
 

Phantom88

Member
Jan 7, 2018
449
stating the percentage of install base to which an exclusive managed to sell to to argue exclusives matter very little is such a flawed argument
So the only factual metric we have if a flawed argument? And instead i should take peoples words on it that exclusives make or break a console just because they're very adamant about it?

This is such a silly take. By this logic, 99.99% of games released and available for a system don't actually matter, and all a console needs is Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto. Hell, where do you even draw the line in terms of relevant software tie ratio for a game to matter? By the very same logic, Call of Duty arguably doesn't matter either, since it only sells to between roughly 8% to 15% of the PS4's install base.

The PS4's attach ratio is 9.6. Meaning on average each PS4 user has purchased a minimum of 10 games. Think about how high that is for a console that has sold 100m systems. Exclusives matter a hell of a lot. Just as games in general do too.
Call of Duty sells 30 million units. Each year. Fifa probably the same. Battlefield maybe 20 million. Other than Spiderman, God of War and Uncharted theres no exclusive that sells in relevant manner.

If you look at all the games that came out so far in 2019. Devil May Cry, Division 2, Resident Evil, Sekiro, Far Cry, Anthem, and will come out, Wolfenstein, Control, and so on. Thats why people buy a console. To play the hundreds of games that come out for it, not less than 10 worthwhile games in a whole fucking generation. Thats some serious brand loyalty to actually think a handful of games from Sony weight so much that people flock in the hundred of millions to buy one.

PS4 had literally nothing for more than two years and was selling like crazy and outmatching xbox more than 2 to 1. Why? There were no exclusives worth playing. Because of this insane brand loyalty and corporate reverence Sony enjoys and because microsoft botched the reveal and was a console with poorer performance
 

Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
1,307
This is my feeling too.

Won’t be a bomb by any means, but I think lots of people here take it for granted. You see a common sentiment that they’re guaranteed to blow it out of the water but with most gens that’s not the case. We really need to see more before jumping to those conclusions
They sold 3 consoles above 100M and 1 close to 90M, yah, their sucess is 90%.
 

Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
1,307
So the only factual metric we have if a flawed argument? And instead i should take peoples words on it that exclusives make or break a console just because they're very adamant about it?



Call of Duty sells 30 million units. Each year. Fifa probably the same. Battlefield maybe 20 million. Other than Spiderman, God of War and Uncharted theres no exclusive that sells in relevant manner.

If you look at all the games that came out so far in 2019. Devil May Cry, Division 2, Resident Evil, Sekiro, Far Cry, Anthem, and will come out, Wolfenstein, Control, and so on. Thats why people buy a console. To play the hundreds of games that come out for it, not less than 10 worthwhile games in a whole fucking generation. Thats some serious brand loyalty to actually think a handful of games from Sony weight so much that people flock in the hundred of millions to buy one.

PS4 had literally nothing for more than two years and was selling like crazy and outmatching xbox more than 2 to 1. Why? There were no exclusives worth playing. Because of this insane brand loyalty and corporate reverence Sony enjoys and because microsoft botched the reveal and was a console with poorer performance
I advice you to go see the sales of battlefield and Cod does not sell 30M, more close to 20M and that is in all systems, on ps4 is more like 10M, that is 10%

3 party sell, but they are not the only reason and exclusives are important. There is no way to spin this out.
 

Marble

Member
Nov 27, 2017
2,242
[/QUOTE]
Exclusives matter extremely little. They're only overblown on places like this. Exclusives have extremely low percentage of adoption. Game like God of War sold to like 10% of ps4's install base and thats a rare blockbuster game. Most sell less.

Microsoft needs to deliver on gaming as a whole, not exclusives. People buy consoles to play games - all games, not cherry pick 2 exclusives per year
Do you work for Xbox by any chance? You clearly don't understand why Sony and Nintendo are absolutely hammering Microsoft.
 
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nib95

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,389
Call of Duty sells 30 million units. Each year. Fifa probably the same. Battlefield maybe 20 million. Other than Spiderman, God of War and Uncharted theres no exclusive that sells in relevant manner.

If you look at all the games that came out so far in 2019. Devil May Cry, Division 2, Resident Evil, Sekiro, Far Cry, Anthem, and will come out, Wolfenstein, Control, and so on. Thats why people buy a console. To play the hundreds of games that come out for it, not less than 10 worthwhile games in a whole fucking generation. Thats some serious brand loyalty to actually think a handful of games from Sony weight so much that people flock in the hundred of millions to buy one.

PS4 had literally nothing for more than two years and was selling like crazy and outmatching xbox more than 2 to 1. Why? There were no exclusives worth playing. Because of this insane brand loyalty and corporate reverence Sony enjoys and because microsoft botched the reveal and was a console with poorer performance
Call of Duty does not sell 30m units a year. The best selling Call of Duty game of all time has sold 31m units, but on average this generation each release has sold between 14m and 28m, on ALL platforms, meaning the PS4 likely only accounts for half of those sales, meaning the PS4 versions likely sold between 7m to 14m, maybe more, maybe less. Uncharted 4 as an example has sold 17m globally.

Also, see my edit, the reality is that speaking globally (not just US), several of the PS4's exclusives (Spider-Man, God of War, UC4, HZD, TLOUR) are likely in the top 20 best selling games on the system (PS4 only), out of over 2,100 games released. That clearly highlights how important exclusives are for the PS4. Some of them are essentially among the most sought after titles available on the system.

And enthusiasts can buy a console at launch with the promise or expectation of future exclusives, whilst in the mean time better versions of multiplatform games can tide them over or account for the bulk of play or purchases. Like many have said, exclusives are what differentiate a platform and are addititive in nature to the multiplatform stuff.
 
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plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
340
So the only factual metric we have if a flawed argument? And instead i should take peoples words on it that exclusives make or break a console just because they're very adamant about it?



Call of Duty sells 30 million units. Each year. Fifa probably the same. Battlefield maybe 20 million. Other than Spiderman, God of War and Uncharted theres no exclusive that sells in relevant manner.

If you look at all the games that came out so far in 2019. Devil May Cry, Division 2, Resident Evil, Sekiro, Far Cry, Anthem, and will come out, Wolfenstein, Control, and so on. Thats why people buy a console. To play the hundreds of games that come out for it, not less than 10 worthwhile games in a whole fucking generation. Thats some serious brand loyalty to actually think a handful of games from Sony weight so much that people flock in the hundred of millions to buy one.

PS4 had literally nothing for more than two years and was selling like crazy and outmatching xbox more than 2 to 1. Why? There were no exclusives worth playing. Because of this insane brand loyalty and corporate reverence Sony enjoys and because microsoft botched the reveal and was a console with poorer performance
Eh, becaause people played the First party game on the previous generation and knew what they will get ? I knew i will get a TLOU Part 2 down the line and 100% wanted to play it.

Also yeah, WW2 sells 30 Million across all platforms. It sold about 13 Million on PS4. Uncharted topped 15 Million, Spiderman, GOW and Horizon will get their eventually. TLOU2 will probably sell up to 20 Million.
Which game on any other Platform comes close?
 

Azerach

Member
Oct 29, 2017
716
Every generation these morons crawl out of the woodwork to try and make the american product a success. It's not working.
 

Serastros

Member
Mar 3, 2018
119
PlayStation is too big to lose. I can't see them making the kind of fuck up that would be needed for them to sink.
Well, so it was thought about Atari, Sega, Commodore, Nokia, Motorola, Netscape, PanAm... Just saying.
Any company can screw itself over and be dead by bad managment.
But I do not think this will happen with Sony at this point in time.
 

Aztorian

Member
Jan 3, 2018
694
Lol. Sony saying targeting hardcore gamers just means pushing the succes of PS4 era through PS5 with huge first party line-up. FIFA and COD will still release on the PS5 for casual players not wanting to invest time in sony ip's
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,665
To top that off, the PS4 is the First time a Sony console had better hardware than the competition.
I thought they've always been on top at the launches?
PS1 > Saturn. PS2 > Dreamcast. PS3 > 360, and PS4 > XB1.
It's the reason I think Scarlett will come out below PS5 unless they launch later. Sony always has some tricks up their sleeves. And they've just had some issues getting devs to understand their complex hardwares so the advantages hasn't shown until later, except with PS1 and PS4 which was pretty straight forward iirc.
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,425
It will be DOA because of 599 or even 499, not because of the hard-core first strategy.
399 in 2013 is 475 in 2020.so 499 in 2020 is basically same as 399 in 2013.there is a thing called inflation and present / future value of the money.

Every generation American media has to do this .don't know why.

I can't wait to Read their next article after 1 year ps5 has launched." Ps5 broke sale records but don't read too much into it" haha

Like clock work.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,490
It's called playstation it will sell
Even with all their anti consumer garbage it will sell
399 in 2013 is 475 in 2020.so 499 in 2020 is basically same as 399 in 2013.there is a thing called inflation and present / future value of the money.
Doesn't matter to people's psychological threshold.
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
340
I thought they've always been on top at the launches?
PS1 > Saturn. PS2 > Dreamcast. PS3 > 360, and PS4 > XB1.
It's the reason I think Scarlett will come out below PS5 unless they launch later. Sony always has some tricks up their sleeves. And they've just had some issues getting devs to understand their complex hardwares so the advantages hasn't shown until later, except with PS1 and PS4 which was pretty straight forward iirc.
In the PSX Generation the N64 was actually the stronger console by Hardware. But Sony had CDs which made FMVs possible.
Next Generation the PS2 had the "strongest" console title for about one year. The Xbox was a much much better console.

While the PS3 on paper was stronger, the Cell was so difficult to work with that basically only the Sony First Party knew how to get it done. Most 3rd Party games run worse on PS3.
 

HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,366
i mean i dont think any established console will be dead on arrival at this point. there are enough loyal fans for each of them, even xbox. (stadia and whatever amazons making are excluded, obviously)
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,665
In the PSX Generation the N64 was actually the stronger console by Hardware. But Sony had CDs which made FMVs possible.
Next Generation the PS2 had the "strongest" console title for about one year. The Xbox was a much much better console.

While the PS3 on paper was stronger, the Cell was so difficult to work with that basically only the Sony First Party knew how to get it done. Most 3rd Party games run worse on PS3.
Yeah but N64 and Xbox launched later. At launch I think Sony's boxes has always been the most powerful ones. And I think that will continue no matter what Phil Spencer dreams about... If Scarlett is launching later then it's another scenario, then we could see a PS4 Pro/Xbox One X difference since MS knows what they're up against. If they launch simultaneously then I simply trust Sony more to deliver on power.
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
340
Yeah but N64 and Xbox launched later. At launch I think Sony's boxes has always been the most powerful ones. And I think that will continue no matter what Phil Spencer dreams about... If Scarlett is launching later then it's another scenario, then we could see a PS4 Pro/Xbox One X difference since MS knows what they're up against. If they launch simultaneously then I simply trust Sony more to deliver on power.
Because they launched a year earlier. the PS4Pro was the strongest Console on release. Still nobody is talking about it.
 

DrDeckard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,569
How could someone even write an article like this when we don't really know anything about the product. When Sony unveils the PS5 the people will decide if they want it, simple as that. Price won't matter if they make it exciting enough. Lots of people will buy it, if it's good enough. Simples.
 

MetalBoi

Member
Dec 21, 2017
3,124
Sony feels like they can overcome the odds with PS4 selling so well, and can take a chance by catering to a minority group of gamers with a high price tag. I think the concerns are real, if that's what they're gonna try to do... especially with Stadia in the mix.

Only the dedicated enthusiasts who are big fans of the brand will be on board from the go, and there are big concerns about the new leadership of Sony with things like censorship etc. that might put off those on the fence, and casuals are not going to willingly fork over in excess of $500.