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Dec 9, 2018
20,924
New Jersey
I know this isn't really the right thread to discuss it but since it's brought up here, I think services like Game Pass, despite their incredible value, do have a natural ceiling based on how many subscribers such a service could acquire. I think PlayStation Plus's ceiling is somewhere around 50 million subs, which could be reached by the apex of the PS5's lifecycle. Plus is hovering in the 45-47 million range, so it's growth prospects aren't very attainable. Everyone who wants to be subbed to Plus is already subbed to Plus. Now, with Game Pass, there's no theoretical barrier of entry, so the ceiling could be much higher, but it's difficult to ascertain because the service is starting to really explode and we've already seen the service miss Microsoft's growth estimates. The service is growing and I predict it will grow a lot faster during the holiday season, but it's hard for me to see it hit the 100 million mark. Above 50 million? Sure.

Anyway, with that in mind, should Sony pursue a Game Pass-style service? Honestly, I think it's more likely they'll launch a new service that simply combines PS Now with Plus and throws in another benefit like the new anime streaming platform. Now isn't nearly as ubiquitous as either Plus or GP, so I think this service could be more niche than Plus. I think the more casual audience that Microsoft and Sony really wants to grab isn't interested in a subscription service for games when a lot of the games they're already playing is free to play and even more easily accessible. That's why I think Sony's PS Mobile division is going to be comprised of free-to-play service-style mobile games that has PlayStation IP attached to them. That could be Sony's way of reaching the "billions of gamers" they envision, instead of complete PlayStation games available on your phone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,262
A personal project from a senior concept artist at Naughty Dog.
romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-a-v04.jpg

romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-c-v05.jpg

romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-d-v06.jpg

romain-jouandeau-sketch-life-by-the-cliff-13-g-v11.jpg

www.artstation.com

Romain Jouandeau

I'm a French concept artist living in Los Angeles. I've been working in the movie and video game industry since 2008 for companies like Naughty Dog, Quantic Dream, Warner Brothers, Sony, Sucker Punch Productions etc...
 

Naicore

Member
Aug 30, 2021
286
That's why I think Sony's PS Mobile division is going to be comprised of free-to-play service-style mobile games that has PlayStation IP attached to them.

A Playstation styled Genshin Impact could be interesting. High production value, cross-play mobile and Playstation, lots of Playstation characters in a stylized visual art direction.
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,540
A personal project from a senior concept artist at Naughty Dog.
romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-a-v04.jpg

romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-c-v05.jpg

romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-d-v06.jpg

romain-jouandeau-sketch-life-by-the-cliff-13-g-v11.jpg

www.artstation.com

Romain Jouandeau

I'm a French concept artist living in Los Angeles. I've been working in the movie and video game industry since 2008 for companies like Naughty Dog, Quantic Dream, Warner Brothers, Sony, Sucker Punch Productions etc...

Just imagine if ND took some inspiration from this and Treasure Planet and makes a steampunk sci-fi pirate game. 🤤
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
Can't say I've enjoyed my PS5 that much so far. Meanwhile, FH5 and the new Halo look really good. Anyone else feeling some Xbox envy?
I'm being catered to as well as ever, so no. I may check out Forza next year when my Steam Deck arrives for that arcade racing fix, but I've had more than enough on my plate between PS5 and Switch to start worrying about new games in series I've not cared for too much in the past. Over the next few months, Horizon Forbidden West, God of War Ragnarök, GT7, Stray, Forspoken, FFXVI, Little Devil Inside, Sifu, the next ND game and everything surrounding the next-gen PSVR will be in focus or at peripheral.

Just imagine if ND took some inspiration from this and Treasure Planet and makes a steampunk sci-fi pirate game. 🤤
I really do think we're in need of another pulpy action game from ND after they're done with the current release phase of The Last of Us.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,744
Naughty Dog's next big IP will be a gritty action drama about the ex-leader of a car gang who goes around beating up the evil bastards who tore apart his gang with a large stick as he tries to rebuild said gang. It shall be called The DriveClubber.
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,682
I know this isn't really the right thread to discuss it but since it's brought up here, I think services like Game Pass, despite their incredible value, do have a natural ceiling based on how many subscribers such a service could acquire. I think PlayStation Plus's ceiling is somewhere around 50 million subs, which could be reached by the apex of the PS5's lifecycle. Plus is hovering in the 45-47 million range, so it's growth prospects aren't very attainable. Everyone who wants to be subbed to Plus is already subbed to Plus. Now, with Game Pass, there's no theoretical barrier of entry, so the ceiling could be much higher, but it's difficult to ascertain because the service is starting to really explode and we've already seen the service miss Microsoft's growth estimates. The service is growing and I predict it will grow a lot faster during the holiday season, but it's hard for me to see it hit the 100 million mark. Above 50 million? Sure.

Anyway, with that in mind, should Sony pursue a Game Pass-style service? Honestly, I think it's more likely they'll launch a new service that simply combines PS Now with Plus and throws in another benefit like the new anime streaming platform. Now isn't nearly as ubiquitous as either Plus or GP, so I think this service could be more niche than Plus. I think the more casual audience that Microsoft and Sony really wants to grab isn't interested in a subscription service for games when a lot of the games they're already playing is free to play and even more easily accessible. That's why I think Sony's PS Mobile division is going to be comprised of free-to-play service-style mobile games that has PlayStation IP attached to them. That could be Sony's way of reaching the "billions of gamers" they envision, instead of complete PlayStation games available on your phone.
Digital services like GP, PS+, etc., are pretty much limited by their target audience which pretty much comprises those fortunate enough to be connected to the internet 24/7. Consider more people are playing games every year, there's theortically no actual subscriber ceiling. But I'm sure there's an article somewhere that shows people who mostly play games aren't those who have constant internet access.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,149
I wonder if we gonna get games looking like that Arcane LoL show. Shit looks absolutely mind boggling.
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,580
United Kingdom
A personal project from a senior concept artist at Naughty Dog.
romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-a-v04.jpg

romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-c-v05.jpg

romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-d-v06.jpg

romain-jouandeau-sketch-life-by-the-cliff-13-g-v11.jpg

www.artstation.com

Romain Jouandeau

I'm a French concept artist living in Los Angeles. I've been working in the movie and video game industry since 2008 for companies like Naughty Dog, Quantic Dream, Warner Brothers, Sony, Sucker Punch Productions etc...
Yeah this is from his visual storytelling concept art course on Learn Squared that just recently became available... There's a lot of good stuff on there including in depth lessons from John Sweeney and Aaron Limonick(also ND). I'll probs dive in with all three and what they've put up as I've already started got an account there, each offers a lot of good stuff but the newest one above using blender for 3D, plus i can't really afford jumping into more expensive software like John. S uses, it'll be easier to follow.
 

MZZ

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,224
I knew guardians of the galaxy was good just from the initial showing. Just finished it and I want to get back into it immediately. The attention to detail and production values are unexpectedly very high, glad I eventually got around to buying it.

I'd say its up there with Spiderman and Miles Morales as great Marvel games. I hope Marvel takes note of the good parts of their partnerships so far and keep going in that direction, they might just have something here that can be an MCU like series of games that I am all in for.

I can't believe how great the voice acting and characterization is and how they never run out of unique things to say and have the dialogue enjoyable as it is for the whole runtime. Making many choices for the dialogue along the way was fun with small changes they make.

ymmv with combat but for me its engaging enough and feels very good for what it is. It feels like final fantasy XV with how many enemy and party interactions there are, weird enough. I think it works well and the dash/dodge really makes it fun to actually control and feel like playing as starlord.

Only think I would want more is to have more interesting skills to use. At least have more than 4 or make it a branching evolving skill. Perhaps they didn't want to complicate it too much for the wider audience.

Didn't mind the linearity but I want to see what this game would be in a more open nature. I bet this was supposed to have more branching paths in the concept stages but would take way too much effort lol

I'm definitely in if they do another one of this again. Incredible game.
 

starfoxxxy

Gravity Is Hard
Banned
Mar 13, 2021
6,488
Just imagine if ND took some inspiration from this and Treasure Planet and makes a steampunk sci-fi pirate game. 🤤

Didn't Neil or someone say when they are fishing for new IP's they reference all the concept artist's works and try and dream up something out of the bunch?

This gives me Nausicaa vibes
 
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Omnistalgic

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,973
NJ
Thing is that, despite all the chest beating, GamePass isn't a success yet. And it may never be.

Look at attach rates for consoles - the PS4 is considered to have an amazing attach rate. It's 10 games. Now do we think people don't have more than 10 games on average because they can't afford more than 10 games despite games being available second hand for next to nothing, or going on deep discount sales on PSN? Obviously cost isn't the reason most PS4 owners only have 10 games. It's far more likely that PS4 owners simply don't have the time to play more than that many.

Personally I think the reason the hardcore gaming market hasn't really expanded all that much over the past 30 years is simply that the market for those games is inelastic. They are more of a hobby than a media. They require time investment, they require input and even a degree of skill. And there are simply only so many people with so much time in the market for that kind of experience - and those people can happily pay the price of a console and a few games.

GamePass is Phil and MS assuming the gaming market is, for some reason, completely elastic and that the reason for the lack of growth is that games are too expensive and there are not enough of them. Which is highly, highly unlikely if you look at gaming demographics, console attach rates and the prices games regularly drop to.

So I find it highly unlikely gamepass is going to significantly expand the hardcore gaming market. There is going to be a hard limit on the number of people with the time and inclination to be interested in GamePass.
excellent posts. Will be an interesting gen, but I'm definitely a gamer that has more than an average time investment into the hobby. I think what Sony should be chasing is the next minecraft and continue to make PS studios stand for "best storytelling in gaming" or something. A sub service is not going to reach Netflix numbers, no service is I don't think, it's about unique content, but we'll see. It's a much more unpredictable gen. I knew PS4 would steamroll X1 like the first year of launch. Switch bounce back was unexpected, but that's about it for surprises. This gen, not sure what we'll look like in 2025.

I wonder if single player games would have higher sales if it weren't for all the service games releasing these days.

I have two friends that only play war zone, they both have over 3000 hours in it. One of them went out to get a ps5 and I think he played a combined hour of spider-man and Astro's playroom since. I can't even get him to download the free ps plus games. I have another friend that plays FIFA every year, but he will play some big sony games like spider-man, tsushima and naughty dog games. I assume he enjoys the theatrics more than the gameyness of it.

I could never get them to play Returnal, Deathloop or Demon's Souls,

There are a large group of gamers you will never convince to sign up for gamepass or ps now*, a majority of game releases are just irrelevant to them, its not money, its lack of interest and/or time
Yup, this is why any of Sony's games in their top 10 most played is impressive. Only Nintendo (who basically carries their own platforms) has better attach rates and arguably a stronger first party lineup.
 

starfoxxxy

Gravity Is Hard
Banned
Mar 13, 2021
6,488
I think Jade Raymonds game has the potential to be Sony's secret weapon. A big budget social game with UGC
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,755
A personal project from a senior concept artist at Naughty Dog.
romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-a-v04.jpg

romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-c-v05.jpg

romain-jouandeau-concept-life-by-the-cliff-13-d-v06.jpg

romain-jouandeau-sketch-life-by-the-cliff-13-g-v11.jpg

www.artstation.com

Romain Jouandeau

I'm a French concept artist living in Los Angeles. I've been working in the movie and video game industry since 2008 for companies like Naughty Dog, Quantic Dream, Warner Brothers, Sony, Sucker Punch Productions etc...

These look amazing. I wonder if either ND's, SSM Cory's, or Bend's game will be in a sci fi world. Reckon we will see the Cory game next year after GOW launch so fingers crossed.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,755
We need more sci fi/fantasy adventure games. As of right now Horizon is the only one

Absolutely! I think one of the main reasons I (amongst many others I'm sure) fell in love with horizon was because how absolutely batshit crazy that world/setting was. I want more! Sony first party is in such a healthy situation now that I think they can go for more ambitious and diverse settings. They have Robot dinos, they have historical Japan, they have Norse mythological setting, and a post-zombie apocalypses world. Need more sci fi and fantasy for sure. Heck, someone please make an action/action-adventure game with a steampunk setting!
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,402
Since the delay, it looks like Solar Ash (releasing on Dec 2, about 3 weeks out) has fallen from the surface of the Earth.
I guess not featuring it at all in the last SoP didn't help...

Still very much looking forward to it!

Solar_ash_preview_key_art.jpg
Yeah, can't wait for this, it looks awesome.

People would have complained if they showed it again too though, lol.
 

Josh5890

I'm Your Favorite Poster's Favorite Poster
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,136
I knew guardians of the galaxy was good just from the initial showing. Just finished it and I want to get back into it immediately. The attention to detail and production values are unexpectedly very high, glad I eventually got around to buying it.

I'd say its up there with Spiderman and Miles Morales as great Marvel games. I hope Marvel takes note of the good parts of their partnerships so far and keep going in that direction, they might just have something here that can be an MCU like series of games that I am all in for.

I can't believe how great the voice acting and characterization is and how they never run out of unique things to say and have the dialogue enjoyable as it is for the whole runtime. Making many choices for the dialogue along the way was fun with small changes they make.

ymmv with combat but for me its engaging enough and feels very good for what it is. It feels like final fantasy XV with how many enemy and party interactions there are, weird enough. I think it works well and the dash/dodge really makes it fun to actually control and feel like playing as starlord.

Only think I would want more is to have more interesting skills to use. At least have more than 4 or make it a branching evolving skill. Perhaps they didn't want to complicate it too much for the wider audience.

Didn't mind the linearity but I want to see what this game would be in a more open nature. I bet this was supposed to have more branching paths in the concept stages but would take way too much effort lol

I'm definitely in if they do another one of this again. Incredible game.

Nice write up. Now am I even more excited to get the game around Black Friday.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,402
Just imagine if ND took some inspiration from this and Treasure Planet and makes a steampunk sci-fi pirate game. 🤤
Give it to me now!

I really do think we're in need of another pulpy action game from ND after they're done with the current release phase of The Last of Us.
Yeah, I hope so.

Thing is that, despite all the chest beating, GamePass isn't a success yet. And it may never be.

Look at attach rates for consoles - the PS4 is considered to have an amazing attach rate. It's 10 games. Now do we think people don't have more than 10 games on average because they can't afford more than 10 games despite games being available second hand for next to nothing, or going on deep discount sales on PSN? Obviously cost isn't the reason most PS4 owners only have 10 games. It's far more likely that PS4 owners simply don't have the time to play more than that many.

Personally I think the reason the hardcore gaming market hasn't really expanded all that much over the past 30 years is simply that the market for those games is inelastic. They are more of a hobby than a media. They require time investment, they require input and even a degree of skill. And there are simply only so many people with so much time in the market for that kind of experience - and those people can happily pay the price of a console and a few games.

GamePass is Phil and MS assuming the gaming market is, for some reason, completely elastic and that the reason for the lack of growth is that games are too expensive and there are not enough of them. Which is highly, highly unlikely if you look at gaming demographics, console attach rates and the prices games regularly drop to.

So I find it highly unlikely gamepass is going to significantly expand the hardcore gaming market. There is going to be a hard limit on the number of people with the time and inclination to be interested in GamePass.
Well said.
 

the-pi-guy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,269
Thing is that, despite all the chest beating, GamePass isn't a success yet. And it may never be.

Look at attach rates for consoles - the PS4 is considered to have an amazing attach rate. It's 10 games. Now do we think people don't have more than 10 games on average because they can't afford more than 10 games despite games being available second hand for next to nothing, or going on deep discount sales on PSN? Obviously cost isn't the reason most PS4 owners only have 10 games. It's far more likely that PS4 owners simply don't have the time to play more than that many.

Personally I think the reason the hardcore gaming market hasn't really expanded all that much over the past 30 years is simply that the market for those games is inelastic. They are more of a hobby than a media. They require time investment, they require input and even a degree of skill. And there are simply only so many people with so much time in the market for that kind of experience - and those people can happily pay the price of a console and a few games.

GamePass is Phil and MS assuming the gaming market is, for some reason, completely elastic and that the reason for the lack of growth is that games are too expensive and there are not enough of them. Which is highly, highly unlikely if you look at gaming demographics, console attach rates and the prices games regularly drop to.

So I find it highly unlikely gamepass is going to significantly expand the hardcore gaming market. There is going to be a hard limit on the number of people with the time and inclination to be interested in GamePass.

The attach rate is generally calculated by games sold divided by hardware sold.
Attach rate doesn't include second hand sales. If I buy 15 games new, and sell 5 of them, and someone else buys 5 new and those 5 used, then the attach rate averages 10 games, but the average number of games played by each person is 12.5.

But still, Gamepass has an uphill battle to prove itself.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,861
the Netherlands
Thing is that, despite all the chest beating, GamePass isn't a success yet. And it may never be.

Look at attach rates for consoles - the PS4 is considered to have an amazing attach rate. It's 10 games. Now do we think people don't have more than 10 games on average because they can't afford more than 10 games despite games being available second hand for next to nothing, or going on deep discount sales on PSN? Obviously cost isn't the reason most PS4 owners only have 10 games. It's far more likely that PS4 owners simply don't have the time to play more than that many.

Personally I think the reason the hardcore gaming market hasn't really expanded all that much over the past 30 years is simply that the market for those games is inelastic. They are more of a hobby than a media. They require time investment, they require input and even a degree of skill. And there are simply only so many people with so much time in the market for that kind of experience - and those people can happily pay the price of a console and a few games.

GamePass is Phil and MS assuming the gaming market is, for some reason, completely elastic and that the reason for the lack of growth is that games are too expensive and there are not enough of them. Which is highly, highly unlikely if you look at gaming demographics, console attach rates and the prices games regularly drop to.

So I find it highly unlikely gamepass is going to significantly expand the hardcore gaming market. There is going to be a hard limit on the number of people with the time and inclination to be interested in GamePass.
On your point about the PS4's attach rate being considered amazing yet it only being about 10 games a console: I think A LOT of people really underestimate for how many people a console is nothing but a FIFA, Madden, NBA or CoD machine. Obviously anecdotal, but I have plenty of friends and family members who own a console or have owned them in the past and NEVER bought a game outside such series or have maybe bought 1 or 2 other games over the course of a generation. And with more and more successful f2p games such as Fortnite and Warzone that's probably only getting even worse.
 

starfoxxxy

Gravity Is Hard
Banned
Mar 13, 2021
6,488
On your point about the PS4's attach rate being considered amazing yet it only being about 10 games a console: I think A LOT of people really underestimate for how many people a console is nothing but a FIFA, Madden, NBA or CoD machine. Obviously anecdotal, but I have plenty of friends and family members who own a console or have owned them in the past and NEVER bought a game outside such series or have maybe bought 1 or 2 other games over the course of a generation. And with more and more successful f2p games such as Fortnite and Warzone that's probably only getting even worse.

Yep. People underestimate the casual markets want for actual games. Casual gamers play one or two games forever and when the new version of that game comes out, they play that game.

There's not a huge casual market that is in constant want for more and more games every two weeks. Games just aren't the same as tv and music, games cannot be consumed to the same extent.

Like i said, i can listen to my music in my car, at the gym, at a party, cleaning…i can really only play games at home in my leisure.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,402
Kingdoms of Amalur still got its hooks deep in me. Downloaded Hawken as well cuz a friend wants to try it out.
Gonna finally give Kingdoms of Amalur a little run to see if I want to play it thanks to Plus, after I get further into Guardians and Blue Reflection: Second Light.
Also likely going to check out Disciples: Liberation thanks to some of the videos of it, didn't realize it was a turn-based SRPG.

Just finished trying out the COGEN: Sword of Rewind demo. Died a lot but it was really cool lol.
 

KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,830
The reason I love PlayStation 1st party is because they build games to be completed and not to continually trap you into it spending more and more money on it. I can feel satisfied playing through a game and just putting it down and not feeling like a missed out on some big thing if I don't keep logging back into it

I honestly hate the influence mobile gaming has had on console gaming
100%, absolutely agreed. A contained, single player experience is my preference by far, and it's why Sony and Nintendo have been my favorite publishers.

What would you say is the worst studio closing Sony has done? Maybe it's just recency bias, but I'm still VERY salty that they got rid of Evolution. Gran Turismo is just not enough for the driving genre, and what used to be Evolution Studios at Codemasters is not remotely as good as they used to be (IMO).
Evolution for me. Pacific Rift is my all time favorite racing game and one of my most played PS3 games.
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,200
Anything ND touch turns into gold.. so I hope they let TLOU IP RIP after they made so many fans pissed off and just create a new IP for new generation, a clean start on PS5.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,744
Anything ND touch turns into gold.. so I hope they let TLOU IP RIP after they made so many fans pissed off and just create a new IP for new generation, a clean start on PS5.

1. All indications are that their next big project is a new IP

2. Those pissed off fans are meaningless, nevermind the loud mouthed morons with an agenda who shouldn't be factored into anything. The vast, vast majority loved it.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,744
Honestly, that Project Awakening footage looks more impressive to me than what we've seen of Elden Ring so far. If it still has combat similar to what we saw in the old clip I think this might be a must-have pickup.
 

Qvoth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,876
angie where'd you get that footage from

edit: nvm got it on the other thread
 
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starfoxxxy

Gravity Is Hard
Banned
Mar 13, 2021
6,488
I wonder how many actual studios have actively approached sony for a buyout or are trying to build their studios to eventually be bought out. I assume there are a lot that want ownership over their IP and want to expand into their own major third party publisher but i also think there has to be twice as many stressing over numbers and wouldnt mind being part of a big publisher especially sony
 

degauss

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,631
Can't say I've enjoyed my PS5 that much so far. Meanwhile, FH5 and the new Halo look really good. Anyone else feeling some Xbox envy?
I have both. No. And I don't mean "no, becuse I have both" Astrobot, miles morales, demons souls, returnal, ratchet and clank is a stronger year 1 exclusive lineup than Forza 5 and Flight Simulator. And after the playing the beta, I don't think Halo will change things much.
 
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