Those posters should read the OP properly then, haha.
Not aimed at you, but this isn't the most complex or controversial discussion we've had on here.
Please stop referring to women as "females" (READ OP)
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Not aimed at you, but this isn't the most complex or controversial discussion we've had on here.
User Banned (1 Week): Ignoring moderator instructions, dismissing concerns of others.
I understand that, but seriously, it's not the end of the world is it? I mean, of all things to complain about...
I'm ok with it as long as those words are used for men and women. It sounds stupid at best if one were to say men followed by females.
As for the group reference I just call everyone dudes. I don't think of it associated with a gender, nor do I intend for it to be. Its more like my dumb ice breaker.
As for the group reference I just call everyone dudes. I don't think of it associated with a gender, nor do I intend for it to be. Its more like my dumb ice breaker.
I am a woman. My social circle has been 90% women since the day i was born. Me and every woman save one in this thread thinks it's dehumanizing. Me and every woman i've known knows it's a low key sexist remark.Next time check the gender on my profile before you go on a misogynistic rant. It makes you look stupid.
I usually go with "What's up, folks?"
Works pretty well.
Gee I wonder what could possibly be the reason you've never experienced that :thinkingemoji:
no one said it's the end of the world. A poster made a thread about her and other women not liking it, and somehow is spawned into a massive thread.
Some of those are pretty gender neutral even though they’re more commonly used for men. Buddies, pals, mates, and gang don’t seem inherently gendered to me. Some of those are pretty specific about referring to a friend as well, not just a nonspecific term to refer to a person.
When I try to think of other words used to refer to women it’s something like broads, chicks, dolls, etc and they pretty much always have a sexist connotation, probably because they’re from an era where sexism was even more rampant than it is today.
One of the issues when it comes to referring to groups of people in English is that “guy” is widely accepted as an all encompassing, non-pejorative term for adult men, and the accepted counterpart ended up being “girl” which is the same word used to refer to children.
Hey, just gonna pop in here for a bit. I'm from one of the regions that uses y'all (it's so ubiquitous around here that it's on shirts) and I can guarantee you that no one would find it offensive in the least. As a matter of fact, we'd find it endearing as long as you weren't doing some kind of weird-ass Li'l Abner accent, lol.
With all due respect, you have no idea how often women gripe about shit like this when men aren’t around. This is a thing that bothers most women, and it’s highly telling that you’re playing devils advocate here.
Yeah looking around the internet many women also use the term "females".
Its without a doubt something that naturalized itself in todays language.
Its without a doubt something that naturalized itself in todays language.
On one hand, it's really not difficult to simply refer to people in the way that they prefer.
But nor should it be too difficult to apply a modicum of nuance when assessing someone's intentions.
Yes, referring to a woman or girl as a "female" is less technically correct, but there's nothing inherently problematic about it either.
It's a shame the word has been co-opted by some gross groups of people because making blanket statements about people using the word being creepy, or having suspect views on women, is hyperbolic.
But in saying that, address people how they want to be addressed.
But nor should it be too difficult to apply a modicum of nuance when assessing someone's intentions.
Yes, referring to a woman or girl as a "female" is less technically correct, but there's nothing inherently problematic about it either.
It's a shame the word has been co-opted by some gross groups of people because making blanket statements about people using the word being creepy, or having suspect views on women, is hyperbolic.
But in saying that, address people how they want to be addressed.
But do you think it's sexist if a man says it and says male in the same context?
I honestly can't grasp anyone finding the word itself to be sexist, only context and tone, which is really on the speaker's mindset, not the language.
If you're an alien space scientist who's job it is to abduct men and women onto your science space ship. Then you can refer to them as "the female".
Refering to women as females has such a gross connotation attached to it. Whether it's your intention or not, it sounds like you're referring to them as animals or things. That's just my opinion.
Refering to women as females has such a gross connotation attached to it. Whether it's your intention or not, it sounds like you're referring to them as animals or things. That's just my opinion.
Ok clarification helped me get what you were saying. Makes sense and was already something I avoided saying in the context you were talking about
Hey y’all ain’t offensive and anyone Can use it. It’s also the best way to talk to a group of people without using gender specific language.
Hey y’all ain’t offensive and anyone Can use it. It’s also the best way to talk to a group of people without using gender specific language.
Not sure why people insist so much on intent. Intent doesn't save anything or anyone from knowingly or unknowingly contributing to established sexism. You can't have it both ways, if you're saying something that is sexist, it doesn't somehow become less sexist because you didn't mean it to be. It's the same with all discourse in life, i'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. By and large i've come to think that it's just an excuse not to scrutinize what they say and how they say it.
Damn, literally the post above yours.
Probably not. That would be just weird. When you're being weird about one gender and not about another then yeah, that's probably sexist.
I've mostly removed female-as-a-noun from my lexicon after hearing that some women are uncomfortable with it (I still can't say I totally understand it and I've never used it in an asymmetrical way from "male", maybe it has different connotations in different places?) But when talking about all people or an arbitrary person of a certain gender regardless of age, "male" and "female" seem like useful words without a good alternative.
In all seriousness, does it matter? This Is really only relevant to someone who is searching for a way to get away with calling women females.
When it comes down to it, it’s dehumanizing regardless of whether it’s directed at men or women. The difference is that men aren’t systemically dehumanized by women on a daily basis.
Don’t refer to women as “females” and don’t refer to men as “males”
Transgenderism aside, I am aware that male and female are genders. I don't know why you felt the need to explain that to me.
The first instance is female being used correctly, the second is female being used incorrectly. Nobody is saying you can't use the word. Just use it in a grammatically correct instance."she is female"
"she is a female" ✘
Sometimes people use the incorrect instance of female use it in a derogatory manner, so using women is both grammatically correct and will avoid confusion as to whether or not one is a NEET incel living in their mother's basement.
Good post, OP. This gets a lot of conversation around my work...
I'm a woman. I'm also in the (US) military. We tend to say males/females instead of men/women. Male barracks, female latrine, if two people have the same last name you might say "Sergeant Smith male-type or Sergeant Smith female-type" (a weird idiosyncrasy of military speak). Outside of the military, I try my best not to say "females." It's so weird. As the OP said, it doesn't bother me when someone says "she is female" and it doesn't bother me when someone is using equivalent terms for everyone. But when it's "men and females" in the same sentence/conversation... it really displays how that person thinks of women as being some sort of other subspecies. It's very "othering."
I'm a woman. I'm also in the (US) military. We tend to say males/females instead of men/women. Male barracks, female latrine, if two people have the same last name you might say "Sergeant Smith male-type or Sergeant Smith female-type" (a weird idiosyncrasy of military speak). Outside of the military, I try my best not to say "females." It's so weird. As the OP said, it doesn't bother me when someone says "she is female" and it doesn't bother me when someone is using equivalent terms for everyone. But when it's "men and females" in the same sentence/conversation... it really displays how that person thinks of women as being some sort of other subspecies. It's very "othering."
Yes, but you have to take into account the age demographic and address accordingly based on that.
Shouldn't call an adult woman a "girl" either but that seems less popular of a rule for some reason.
Did you read the OP? Because the OP talks about how using the word "female" suggests specific things about that person's view of women.
That's not talking in generalities about latent sexism, that speaks directly to intent.
I always felt like "females" referred to the biological aspects of a being, which is why it was always weird to me when I heard people using it. There are females of other species that have breasts, vaginas, bear children, give milk, etc. But a woman? A woman is a person.
You are wrong. Both are grammatically correct. Female can be a noun - a quick Google search turns up the dictionary definition "a female person, animal, or plant."
However, using that noun form for humans isn't acceptable to a lot of people, and carries very specific connotations.
As someone in the military, we’re kind of bound by those descriptors to avoid anything that could be taken as sexual harassment. Like in the context of, “The females are in the platoon over there” etc.
Does it matter? No. But I was curious.
I can't think of a context in which I use male or female for humans, I may have said "a female friend who..." or "a male colleague that...", etc, but I couldn't say for sure. It's not about me, if I use it I know it isn't with ill-will, I'm comfortable with the word, but I'm still interested in the thinking behind people who are offended by it.
I'm aware of that, but the person quoted mentioned his wife anecdotally didn't find it offensive, and he was called out for it.... paraphrasing, "your wife doesn't speak for all women", and then you go and speak for all women saying the majority find it offensive and a "SMALL ASS minority" don't care. It may sound like semantics, but it is indeed hypocrisy. And again, I agree with overall point OP made. I don't think I've ever said female(s) in that context, even online, and don't have any guy friends that say it, either. It sounds weird, like too science-y for normal conversation in that context.
This is true, female refers to sex, which includes humans, animals and plants.
That's because it is.
The problem isn't that guy's wife not finding it offensive, nor is anyone trying to speak for her. The problem is that that particular poster was using his wife as an example with the intent of shutting down legitimate concerns from other women who are telling him that their experiences ARE valid. Yet he completely refused to engage with arguments in regards to their experience and instead just went "oh buy we can disregard what you feel because here's this one person that doesn't feel like you do." Ok? So fucking what? It's a trash post that deserves to be ridiculed.
...calling an infant a "baby" is dehumanizing? Are you trying to posit that there is structural oppression of infants that is comparable to the structural oppression of women? I'm honestly confused. What's your point?
The world has two genders, why is it wrong or demeaning to say the name of one of them? Men don't take offense to being called male.
Sure but not Mate. Mate has a very different meaning when talking about women.
It's one of those terms that started off without a negative connotation, but over time it's become co-opted by redpillers/incels to dehumanize women and feminimity.
I understand why women don't like it being used anymore, just as much as I can understand people being surprised it's a toxic word nowadays; the take over of the word happened pretty fast.
I understand why women don't like it being used anymore, just as much as I can understand people being surprised it's a toxic word nowadays; the take over of the word happened pretty fast.
yeah good shout OP. it's always kinda telling when someone drops "female" into a sentence where "woman" would more appropriately fit - a little verbal tic of someone, usually a man, who consciously or unconsciously seeks to set up a dynamic that reduces women to things.
there are certainly appropriate places to use the term female, but in everyday language when you're talking about men and women, it's weird and creepy and ugh don't do it.
there are certainly appropriate places to use the term female, but in everyday language when you're talking about men and women, it's weird and creepy and ugh don't do it.
I honestly didnt realize people use men and females together. That would just sound really weird.
I personally dont use either male or female in my everyday vernacular so this one probably isnt directed at me anyway. Those terms just sound very formal.
Reading the thread title i thought it meant dont use the word female ever, which did seem odd to me but after reading some of the post its mostly about using the word incorrectly and inconsistently when not using the male counterpart, correct?
I personally dont use either male or female in my everyday vernacular so this one probably isnt directed at me anyway. Those terms just sound very formal.
Reading the thread title i thought it meant dont use the word female ever, which did seem odd to me but after reading some of the post its mostly about using the word incorrectly and inconsistently when not using the male counterpart, correct?
Well, it's not though.
There are reasons not to say "female". Grammar isn't one of them.
Hmmmm.... I’m not from a place where that vernacular is commonly used so I can’t say. I didnt realize it would actally imply “mate” in another sense.
Men aren't being oppressed by being called "that male over there". That just isn't a thing that actually happens in society, even narrowly speaking.
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