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Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Here's what I don't get: Is this a problem on ERA? Because I guess that's what triggered most responses to the OP. The OP addresses the users of this forum as if that sort of thing would happen here.
Yes. The users on this forum often exhibit a lack of respect and empathy for women.

This is exemplified any time there's a thread about women and their experiences, especially in regard to sexual harassment/abuse. Look through this thread. There's a ton of bans.

In regard to using "female" in an objectifying or dehumanizing way, yes, I see it happen on ERA.
 

Euler

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
I've generally seen two uses of it: the obviously weird incel/MRA version, as well as just a general slang version, which is what you see on Twitter, etc. The latter is honestly more of a AAVE thing which might explain why many in this thread haven't seen it, but it'll go mainstream in due time just like all other black slang does.
I see, interesting. I wonder how the use of female as a noun will be perceived if/when the AAVE slang goes mainstream, since that slang version might not be used mainly in a weird way like the incel/MRA version. Is it possible to avoid the negative connection to the incel/MRA version since it's so close in time?
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
I see, interesting. I wonder how the use of female as a noun will be perceived if/when the AAVE slang goes mainstream, since that slang version might not be used mainly in a weird way like the incel/MRA version. Is it possible to avoid the negative connection to the incel/MRA version since it's so close in time?
Nah, they're both pretty misogynistic imo. Just different flavors of it.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
I don't use female at all, to the detriment of my grammar. I use "women" in all contexts. Women programmers, women lawyers, women carpenters, etc. It sounds weird to say but everyone knows what I mean and nobody will mistake me for a creep.
I try to do the same. Sometimes I slip up, but since becoming more aware about the importance of language in regards to gender, I really try.
 

PhazonBlonde

User requested ban
Banned
May 18, 2018
3,293
Somewhere deep in space
Here's what I don't get: Is this a problem on ERA? Because I guess that's what triggered most responses to the OP. The OP addresses the users of this forum as if that sort of thing would happen here.
It is absolutely a thing that happens here, although a good deal less than a lot of other 'gaming/nerd culture' forums. You can sift through a search if you want; I'm not going to do that and post up examples though because I don't want to smack that hornet's nest lol
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
but a female model isn't fine. I read the OP and am still confused. I worked as a dispatcher and we described women and men as male and females in that context all the time. She is a female patron etc.
You would probably also say male? This seems to fall under the "dehumanize in a professional setting" use, same as in research.
 

X1 Two

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,023
It is absolutely a thing that happens here, although a good deal less than a lot of other 'gaming/nerd culture' forums. You can sift through a search if you want; I'm not going to do that and post up examples though because I don't want to smack that hornet's nest lol

Ok, guess I am visiting the wrong (right) threads.
 

jmizzal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,171

The way the girl in the 2nd tweet used "Female" I see women use it that way more then men

Now I know there are a lot of men who use it to degrade women but, thats not something i'm around or on those kinda forums to read about.

But the more common usage I hear of the term not being used right is the way it is said in that tweet
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,202
Dark Space
Its my slang substitute for bitch or bitches. There aren't really many cool substitute words for women outside of chicks and that sounds weird to say. Dude or bro/bruh is my substitute for nigga. Is there a good substitute slang word for women that isn't female?
There really are not many that the typical upstanding woman will find respectful.

I mean especially in the black community there are a ton of slang for woman: female, broad, breez, shorty, mah, chick, plus whatever comes from all of the different regions.

If you're desperate 'dame' is a very ancient word that was used as a sign of great respect and high position, but YMMV on how smoothly it fits into conversation in 2018 and beyond.

Woman is really our best shot fam.
 

Zoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,017
Have there been any examples posted up of people deliberately using the word "female" in a derogatory sense? I mean, it's obvious to me how it could be taken as offensive, because of the medical/scientific/police context in which it's used making it dehumanizing. I just find it so ridiculous to imagine some gamergater sneering "who invited the feemale" that I want to see it in action.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
Have there been any examples posted up of people deliberately using the word "female" in a derogatory sense? I mean, it's obvious to me how it could be taken as offensive, because of the medical/scientific/police context in which it's used making it dehumanizing. I just find it so ridiculous to imagine some gamergater sneering "who invited the feemale" that I want to see it in action.
https://twitter.com/search?l=&q="females" -female&src=typd&lang=en
 

Goron2000

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
542
People who drop the word 'female' in casual conversation make me want to curl up and die. Especially nerdy types that treat it like it's a complimentary word.

'Goddesses' is another one that recently started giving me a gag reflex.
 

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
I think it's reasonable to expect people to be consistent; for example saying man/woman and male/female, rather than man/female. Of course, how to get that message across is another story, since it's something the vast majority of people probably don't even know/realize that they're doing.
 

game-biz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,711
Huh, interesting. I've lived in California my whole life and I can't recall ever hearing anybody use "female" like that. It just doesn't sound like a normal english sentence. Hopefully I don't meet anyone like that in the future either lol.
 

see5harp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,435
I actually didn't even realized I did this until a friend of mine pointed it out. I can't even say I realized how or why it was offensive until it was explained to me. I can't say that I felt bad about it, but I definitely understand now that it's been explained and I'm conscious of the issue and avoid using it.
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
Out of curiosity, and since this is not an issue that happens in my language, but using "lady" would be a-okay, yeah? Like, the few times I had to tell an English speaker that a female friend of mine told me to do something, I just used "my lady friend". Since we had this discussion opened here, I thought I might ask.
 

EloquentM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,631
I'll be honest I though era was overreacting as tends to happen regarding certain topics where slang and pop culture is related but that link had me changing my mind real quick. Seems like the only people using it are mysoginistic, trashy, or both.

Well that didn't take long.... I wonder how many people ITT complaining they can't use female and that we're too sensitive about it are also the ones complaining when people use words like "yikes", "toxic", "problematic" and "gross?"
What do the words listed have to do with the premise of the thread? And yes seeing those words every day on this site is annoying. People should expand their fucking vocabulary. I complained about cringe too FYI. Glad that died with 2016

Edit: and then I see you made more posts with the same point since no one responded to your original argument. Lmao
 
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marimo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
612
Out of curiosity, and since this is not an issue that happens in my language, but using "lady" would be a-okay, yeah? Like, the few times I had to tell an English speaker that a female friend of mine told me to do something, I just used "my lady friend". Since we had this discussion opened here, I thought I might ask.
It's not offensive but it has a connotation of a romantic partner, like saying "girl friend". Just say "friend" unless gender is important to what you're saying, in which case "female friend" is fine.
 

farmland

Member
Oct 30, 2017
619
I know many women who hate being called a "female", and I know I would feel objectified if I was referred to as a "male" continually. However as a man, I'm not ever referred too in the same way. Neither am I really ever called a boy unless in jest.

I think linguistically we ought to refer to women in similar way to how we refer to men.
 

Grigorig

Member
Oct 30, 2017
696
I don't think I've ever heard "female" be used unironically as a noun in real life, thankfully. I always thought it was the sort of thing you'd see on those vile "men's rights" sites. Though fortunately I think most of the negative reactions in this thread are from people who *still* don't actually understand the concept "what do you mean I can't say female musician, has the whole world gone mad!?" etc., it is fairly saddening to see some people who are genuinely trying to argue the point.
 

EloquentM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,631
Mostly women using it tbh
Look at the TOP filter then. Regardless typically speaking no one refers to men as males. That said "females" can be cultural. It's used in the black community a lot as well, however from my experience it's mostly from thirsty/douchey/trashy dudes. I do know a lot of women who say it as well who seem fine with it but I would never fault a woman who wouldn't want to be called that. I just never really thought about until this thread.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
I use both male and female in sentences on occasion (eg pertaining to statistics, demographic analysis etc). Out of curiosity, why is it bad to use either? You haven't actually offered an explanation besides complaining about the contradictory or double standard use of the term (eg saying men and female), which I completely agree with, but what if you use the words legitimately, and to describe both genders?
 
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Nick Nehidnyk

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,806
it isn't even really sexist, it just makes the speaker seem interpersonally inept

like the nutty professor or something

"ugh i understand quantum mechanics but not the inner workings of the elusive feeeeemaaaalesssss"
 

Impetuous Imp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
185
I've read most of this thread with fascination. I have no problem referring to myself as a female. I also have no problem with someone else referring to me as a female. I don't feel dehumanized (it's not untrue, after all) nor do I feel ashamed of being one, regardless of what someone else's intent with the usage might be. It has never occurred to me that it might feel offensive to others, but I respect their right to feel that way.

Honest question, though - if I were to refer to myself as "a female," is that then offensive to others? Even if it's in reference to myself? Thinking about it, it seems harder to adjust my speech when it's in reference to myself because I generally don't walk on eggshells worrying about whether I might be offended by what I say about myself, if that makes any sense.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,991
I'm going to start referring to all people as "bags of mostly water trapped in a universe so big that you cannot conceivably affect it in any significant way".

It's technically right, so I don't see why anyone should be insulted or why I'd be a jerk for doing so.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,460
Look at the TOP filter then. Regardless typically speaking no one refers to men as males. That said "females" can be cultural. It's used in the black community a lot as well, however from my experience it's mostly from thirsty/douchey/trashy dudes. I do know a lot of women who say it as well who seem fine with it but I would never fault a woman who wouldn't want to be called that. I just never really thought about until this thread.

I've seen the sentiments in the OP a LOT on the Internet over the last three years, but yeah at first I ain't realize it was a thing that was...widespread. It's been around in the black community for...20+ years (whenever Friday came out at least), but I didn't know it was like some epidemic. Apparently the twits on Reddit started doing it. :/

I didnt realize it offended people so much til I saw articles about it surface.
 

Steven

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,172
I don't get this at all.

I use women and females often, don't really pay attention to when I do or don't. A lot of women I know use female as well. When did this become a thing and why is it so bad?
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,506
Bandung Indonesia
it is fine to use "female" as an adjective

99% of the time, you should not use "female" or "females" as a noun

here is a handy guide if you don't know the differences between nouns and adjectives:
bed346192b44da34f537bsejd2.jpg

"she is a female patron" is an acceptable use of the word "female" because it is used as an adjective to describe the patron

"i will send you three females" is not an acceptable use of the word "female" because you are using it as a noun

hope this helps

This is so easy to understand even for someone with only a basic knowledge of English, hahah.
 

Deleted member 20850

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
444
I don't get this at all.

I use women and females often, don't really pay attention to when I do or don't. A lot of women I know use female as well. When did this become a thing and why is it so bad?

You can pretty much take a random page in this thread and read the explanation if you are interested.

But even without one, you would now know everyone is ok with the use of "a woman" while a significant amount of women is not ok with being called "a female".

It seems like a no brainer to just use the word that doesn't risk making another person uncomfortable.
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,500
Earth, 21st Century
I just call them XX Chromosomes.

They are different from the XYs. You humans - I mean, you fellow humans can be hard to distinguish. I am not an alien living among you.
 
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