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Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
The original NIER's plotline makes no sense because of like, one particular scene, if you think about it too hard.

how the fuck does Yonah age between getting kidnapped and being rescued by Nier & gang a few years later? If she ages like a regular girl the entire 1317 year timeskip and therefore the entire setting of the game stops making sense.

Edit : I was wrong! There's an explanation. Rad!
 
Last edited:
Jan 4, 2018
8,616
Halo 3. What happened to the Dreadnought during the battle of the Ark. It could have smashed the Separatist/UNSC fleet in pieces. My headcanon is that it was sabotaged by ODSTs or Mendicant Bias.
 

Squid Bunny

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 11, 2018
5,340
It's been a while but I remember OG Vesperia having many issues. The story's inciting incident is completely ignored and never resolved (became a sidequest in the PS3 versions iirc) and Alexei, as a character, makes absolutely no sense.

I honestly can't remember much more than that. I still can't wait to replay it on Switch though.
 

Gifmaker

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
964
Zant is challenging Ganon spirit, who is titled The King of Evil which sums up his motivation. The goblin leader is also in Ganon's stolen castle at the end. Ganon who orders them just enjoys being a dick. He poisons the Deku Tree for no reason, he's a dick. He's not reasonable. He becomes King of Hyrule then destroys the kingdom, so what's the point?
He does not poison the Deku Tree for no reason. He kills it because it refused to hand over the Kokiri Emerald. This is explictly stated by the Deku Tree in the game. But I guess your argument is that nothing has to make sense because Ganondorf is evil and will therefore to evil, yet pointless things?
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,419
He does not poison the Deku Tree for no reason. He kills it because it refused to hand over the Kokiri Emerald. This is explictly stated by the Deku Tree in the game. But I guess your argument is that nothing has to make sense because Ganondorf is evil and will therefore to evil, yet pointless things?
Ganon is a sadist, yes so he does pointess things. If he cared about being rational and the big picture, he would have burnt down the tree so no one else can get the stone, not give him a slow death and order his army of moblins to collapse all the caves and dungeons so Link won't get the tools he needs. He doesn't think very much about the bigger picture and what it means to rule, he does evil things for a laugth.
 

tsab

Member
Nov 3, 2017
893
Metal Gear Solid the Thread.
Pretty much all Metal Gear Solid games.
What plot holes?

images_(2).jpg
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
Ethan and the killers 'souls' were tied together following the events that lead to one of his sons dying, and the killer witnessing a father trying to save his child

so when the killer had strong emotions/kidnapped/whatever, Ethan would black out and head to that construction site (which was important to the killer)

it's for the best it was cut
It's funny because I always looked at Heavy Rain as a weird outlier in David Cage's games because it stays mostly within the realm of reality without some crazy supernatural stuff happening but looks like it was intended to be there all along.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
The original NIER's plotline makes no sense because of like, one particular scene, if you think about it too hard.

how the fuck does Yonah age between getting kidnapped and being rescued by Nier & gang a few years later? If she ages like a regular girl the entire 1317 year timeskip and therefore the entire setting of the game stops making sense.

That's not a plot hole. Nier and Yonah are Replicants of the originals who were in the prologue.
 
OP
OP
Lightning Count
Jan 27, 2019
16,073
Fuck off
It's funny because I always looked at Heavy Rain as a weird outlier in David Cage's games because it stays mostly within the realm of reality without some crazy supernatural stuff happening but looks like it was intended to be there all along.

At least in Beyond Two Soul's it's treated differently and they actually address it in the story, rather than just presenting us with supernatural elements in a massive unexplained tonal shift then expecting us to just accept it.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,571
here
At least in Beyond Two Soul's it's treated differently and they actually address it in the story, rather than just presenting us with supernatural elements in a massive unexplained tonal shift then expecting us to just accept it.
yeah, for better or for worse, Beyond focuses on that aspect from beginning to end

even tying in gameplay mechanics
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,863
Ah Yakuza... where to start:
Yakuza 2 has you believe that
Terrada is dead for 90% of the game, and then he's not. With 0 explanation on how he not only faked his shooting but him legit dying in front of you and Haruka in the ambulance. He's a magnificent actor for sure.
Oh, and Osaka Castle splitting in two and a massive gold version rising from the ground. Because that makes perfect sense!

Yakuza 4 is an amazing game that decides to say "fuck it" in the last chapter. A combo of bad story telling and so much suspension of disbelief that it makes Yakuza 5 seem straight forward by comparison:
First, not a plot whole but plain stupidity - Akiyama has billions of yen in a safe with no lock on it. Kiddo literally just stumbles upon it by accident. Also, guns, turning your back on them. Stop it. Yasuko's death was completely meaningless because Saejima figured Katsuragi out and stopped him, only to let him shoot her anyway.
But the last chapter has a character (a Yakuza that's really a cop) shoot the top cop IN HIS OFFICE and just walk out of there. Because apparently the sound of a gunshot in his office is a normal thing. Then everyone betrays each other for reasons that'd make my head hurt just thinking about

Yakuza 5 kinda takes the cake though in certain respects where
Morinaga claims he kills Aizawa (he apparently didn't, no explanation for the lie). But hey Morinaga is killed but no one actually knows how because it just happens off screens and never followed up. I think its implied that the main baddie offs him, but its super vague and can be interpreted in many ways.

The head of the Kitakata Family is abducted in broad daylight, in front of around 50 people and no one sees a fucking thing. Again, not explained how Saejima pulled off the kidnapping of the century to make the Limburg Baby case look trivial.

And then there's just a load of confusing writing between 0, Kiwami 2 and 5 that when examined make absolutely no damn sense

And don't even get me started on certain things in Yakuza 7... though I've barely started that game so those might actually get explained. Or not. Can't wait!
 

GameBuddy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
94
Hellabama
The issue with that is that Link is supposedly able to see those spirits in the Twilight, right? Zelda doesn't just lose her physical form and become a spirit, she just vanishes completely. The way Midna reacts is clearly supposed to make you think Zelda gave up her life or spirit or whatever to save her.

And then on top of her simply vanishing like that, we're given absolutely no explanation of how Zant/Ganon captures her. In fact, why exactly was she just able to hang out in her room in the castle at the beginning anyway, if Zant/Ganon wanted to capture her?

We can obviously try and make sense of these things by offering up potential in-universe theories but her sacrificing herself for Midna is a crucial plot point that's basically completely ignored by the end of the game for no obvious reason. It's as if the developers thought that would make for a good story (Zelda dying to save Midna) but basically chickened out at the end and assumed you, as the player, would have forgotten it happened.

Zelda says she is being watched by guards when you first meet her.

Even if you do assume she's dead, when you see she's not I don't think it's out of any realm of possibility to assume her spirit was immediately taken by Ganon (who we don't even know exists at the time of her sacrifice) who wanted the Triforce of Wisdom.

I don't think the game has to show you everything when it gives you the information to explain it, sequentially or not.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Ganon is a sadist, yes so he does pointess things. If he cared about being rational and the big picture, he would have burnt down the tree so no one else can get the stone, not give him a slow death and order his army of moblins to collapse all the caves and dungeons so Link won't get the tools he needs. He doesn't think very much about the bigger picture and what it means to rule, he does evil things for a laugth.

He needed the stone though. He poisoned the tree presumably so that he could go in and get the stone once it was dead, but he didn't count on Link getting to it before it died. After that he hatches up his plan to let Link roam free so Link can collect the three stones for him.

Then once he has the triforce and is king of Hyrule he seals away the seven sages and puts barriers in front of them (dragon, ice, phantom ganon, etc.) to prevent anyone/Link from releasing them.

OOT Ganondorf was actually fairly rational overall. His biggest issue was his hubris, in letting Link run around freely so that he'd expose Zelda. If he was smart he'd have just captured/killed Link as soon as he saw him and then Zelda wouldn't have really been able to do much.

Zelda says she is being watched by guards when you first meet her.

Even if you do assume she's dead, when you see she's not I don't think it's out of any realm of possibility to assume her spirit was immediately taken by Ganon (who we don't even know exists at the time of her sacrifice) who wanted the Triforce of Wisdom.

I don't think the game has to show you everything when it gives you the information to explain it, sequentially or not.

Ah I forgot about her being watched by guards.

Anyway, yes like I said you can sorta fill in the blanks with some logic and creativity, but when those blanks have to do with an extremely major and emotional plot point (aka Zelda dying), having to fill in the blanks really isn't enough to make it a coherent story.

The game doesn't have to show you everything, sure, but it should at least attempt to explain the major plot points.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
That's not a plot hole. Nier and Yonah are Replicants of the originals who were in the prologue.
I know, but that doesn't fix the hole.

The Replicant Yonah ages, in 4 years, in a way she hasn't in the last 13-ish centuries. That's the plot hole. It's not about them being replicants, it's about -AFAIK- the Yonah at the beginning of the game after the prologue -say, in Route A- being different from the Yonah rescued at the end of C/D.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I know, but that doesn't fix the hole.

The Replicant Yonah ages, in 4 years, in a way she hasn't in the last 13-ish centuries. That's the plot hole. It's not about them being replicants, it's about -AFAIK- the Yonah at the beginning of the game after the prologue -say, in Route A- being different from the Yonah rescued at the end of C/D.

You've got it wrong. The Replicants aren't immortal or anything. They live normal human lives, age and die, and then their genetic material is recycled to make new Replicants.
 

Bovine

Member
Oct 29, 2017
248
Fire Emblem Fates has a ton of plot holes, but that may just be that nearly every character is written to be an idiot. I'm thinking how nobody recognized Azura while wearing a black version of her outfit.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
Zelda explains that when Zant attacked the castle and plunged it into Twilight that every person but her lost their physical form and turned into a spirit. Later, when Midna is dying, she reveals that the power of the Triforce is what turned Link into a wolf instead of him losing physical form. She says she's been granted "special powers by the goddesses" too and shows her triforce. She gives up that power to heal Midna when she realizes Midna is the Twilight Queen, loses her physical form, and her spirit is captured and manipulated by Zant/Ganon.

There's some inference and it takes place over the course of dozens of hours of gameplay, but it's there.

The issue with that is that Link is supposedly able to see those spirits in the Twilight, right? Zelda doesn't just lose her physical form and become a spirit, she just vanishes completely. The way Midna reacts is clearly supposed to make you think Zelda gave up her life or spirit or whatever to save her.

And then on top of her simply vanishing like that, we're given absolutely no explanation of how Zant/Ganon captures her. In fact, why exactly was she just able to hang out in her room in the castle at the beginning anyway, if Zant/Ganon wanted to capture her?

We can obviously try and make sense of these things by offering up potential in-universe theories but her sacrificing herself for Midna is a crucial plot point that's basically completely ignored by the end of the game for no obvious reason. It's as if the developers thought that would make for a good story (Zelda dying to save Midna) but basically chickened out at the end and assumed you, as the player, would have forgotten it happened.
Gamebuddy is close but actually a little off about what happens. When Zelda sacrifices herself for Midna, there's no longer Twilight in the Lanayru region where they currently are. So Zelda isn't turning into a spirit in the same way that the people do when Twilight overtakes the land. What actually happens is a little different.

Midna is a Twili, which means she can't exist in the light. It physically will kill her. That's why before this point, Midna always hid in your shadow or appeared transparent when you removed the Twilight from the land. She's basically doing the opposite of what Hyruleans do in the Twilight - becoming a "spirit" but in the light. However, after the Lakebed Temple, Zant forcibly keeps Midna in her physical form as the light spirit returns light to the region causing Midna to be mortally wounded. So when Zelda heals her, she basically gives Midna the ability to exist in the realm of light but gives up her ability to do the same thing. So Zelda fades from the realm of light. Ganondorf then captures and manipulates her after that.

Zelda is never presumed to be dead, they were never going to outright kill her off. Even Midna mentions how she needs to save Zelda and repay her before you find her body in the throne room. I agree that they don't really sit you down to explain the exact mechanisms of the event but if you pay attention to the story and how things work in the game logically, there is an explanation.

Also Skittzo, Zelda is trapped in that room. In the beginning of the game, it's mentioned that there's a guard just down the stairs from Zelda's room. You just manage to sneak in undetected through a window. Zelda was never free throughout the course of the game. Ganondorf already had control of the castle.
 

yurr

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 20, 2019
946
It's been a while but I remember OG Vesperia having many issues. The story's inciting incident is completely ignored and never resolved (became a sidequest in the PS3 versions iirc) and Alexei, as a character, makes absolutely no sense.

I honestly can't remember much more than that. I still can't wait to replay it on Switch though.
First thing that came to mind. Cumore, raven/schwann, dedechhi, Barbados kidnapping they prince. Zagi. None of it made sense
 

Bleu

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
1,599
i still don't get how this u-boat got on top of the island in uncharted.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
I think Final Fantasy XV is explained well enough, but the part that makes me angry is when the woman who looks like Hillary Clinton is totally OK with Noctis destroying her city in order to awaken its guardian deity. You'd think it would take more convincing than a few conversation checks.
I don't know if this counts as a plot hole but I don't understand cell phones in XV. Noctis has one. Luna probably has one. It seems odd that they can't contact each other.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,419
He needed the stone though. He poisoned the tree presumably so that he could go in and get the stone once it was dead, but he didn't count on Link getting to it before it died. After that he hatches up his plan to let Link roam free so Link can collect the three stones for him.

Then once he has the triforce and is king of Hyrule he seals away the seven sages and puts barriers in front of them (dragon, ice, phantom ganon, etc.) to prevent anyone/Link from releasing them.

OOT Ganondorf was actually fairly rational overall. His biggest issue was his hubris, in letting Link run around freely so that he'd expose Zelda. If he was smart he'd have just captured/killed Link as soon as he saw him and then Zelda wouldn't have really been able to do much.



Ah I forgot about her being watched by guards.

Anyway, yes like I said you can sorta fill in the blanks with some logic and creativity, but when those blanks have to do with an extremely major and emotional plot point (aka Zelda dying), having to fill in the blanks really isn't enough to make it a coherent story.

The game doesn't have to show you everything, sure, but it should at least attempt to explain the major plot points.
I think you're trying to give Ganon too much credit. He wants to overthrow the King with the trifoce's power and as soon all it does he burns the whole kingdom and make other lands suffers but for some reason he lets Kakariko Village stand, which is basically next door. He makes no effort to help his old home. Putting monsters in dungeons is shit, have his goblins survey and remove and destroy the tools Link needs. Using Link seems like a good plan but he still lets him take the sword that was designed to kill him. Other than that he sits in a room doing nothing but playing his own theme tune on a piano. He's just evil and rather illogical with his schemes, whatever amuses him at the time and that including kidnapping children, when he's influencing Zant or possessing him.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Gamebuddy is close but actually a little off about what happens. When Zelda sacrifices herself for Midna, there's no longer Twilight in the Lanayru region where they currently are. So Zelda isn't turning into a spirit in the same way that the people do when Twilight overtakes the land. What actually happens is a little different.

Midna is a Twili, which means she can't exist in the light. It physically will kill her. That's why before this point, Midna always hid in your shadow or appeared transparent when you removed the Twilight from the land. She's basically doing the opposite of what Hyruleans do in the Twilight - becoming a "spirit" but in the light. However, after the Lakebed Temple, Zant forcibly keeps Midna in her physical form as the light spirit returns light to the region causing Midna to be mortally wounded. So when Zelda heals her, she basically gives Midna the ability to exist in the realm of light but gives up her ability to do the same thing. So Zelda fades from the realm of light. Ganondorf then captures and manipulates her after that.

Zelda is never presumed to be dead, they were never going to outright kill her off. Even Midna mentions how she needs to save Zelda and repay her before you find her body in the throne room. I agree that they don't really sit you down to explain the exact mechanisms of the event but if you pay attention to the story and how things work in the game logically, there is an explanation.

Also Skittzo, Zelda is trapped in that room. In the beginning of the game, it's mentioned that there's a guard just down the stairs from Zelda's room. You just manage to sneak in undetected through a window. Zelda was never free throughout the course of the game. Ganondorf already had control of the castle.

I had forgotten she was trapped in that room, yeah.

But everything else still bothers me in the same way as before- all of this requires a lot of vague theories and connections that aren't at all mentioned in the game. If Zelda is giving Midna her ability to stay in the light realm, then how is Zelda able to return to the light realm after Ganon is defeated? Why is there no mention of rescuing Zelda after that until just before the end of the game?

It all seems like the writers want you to think she's dying to save Midna, but then at the end couldn't really go through with that plotline so they just inexplicably wrote her back into it. Like I said, you can definitely use some creativity and in-game logic to come up with plausible explanations like you've done, but for such a major plot point there should be a LOT more exposition.

I think you're trying to give Ganon too much credit. He wants to overthrow the King with the trifoce's power and as soon all it does he burns the whole kingdom and make other lands suffers but for some reason he lets Kakariko Village stand, which is basically next door. He makes no effort to help his old hone. Using Link seems like a good plan but he still lets him take the sword that was designed to kill him. Other than that he sits in a room doing nothing but playing his own theme tune on a piano. He's just evil and rather illogical with his schemes, whatever amuses him at the time and that including kidnapping children, when he's influencing Zant or possessing him.

Regarding Kakariko I thought it was said somewhere in the game that Ganon didn't even know it housed a sage (Shadow Temple). Maybe I got that from something like Hyrule Historia actually? But yeah, he didn't attack Kakariko because he didn't see it as a threat. He did see the other temples/sages as threats though, which is why he froze Zora's domain/tried to freeze Lake Hylia, unleashed the dragon on the Gorons, sent his phantom to the Forest Temple, and let his people (and Twinrova) guard the Spirit Temple.

He also never knew Link would time warp, that much is explicitly in the game. He thought he would have his hands on the triforce while a little boy was trying to pull out a sword way too big for him to wield. That's not exactly illogical.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,419
I had forgotten she was trapped in that room, yeah.

But everything else still bothers me in the same way as before- all of this requires a lot of vague theories and connections that aren't at all mentioned in the game. If Zelda is giving Midna her ability to stay in the light realm, then how is Zelda able to return to the light realm after Ganon is defeated? Why is there no mention of rescuing Zelda after that until just before the end of the game?

It all seems like the writers want you to think she's dying to save Midna, but then at the end couldn't really go through with that plotline so they just inexplicably wrote her back into it. Like I said, you can definitely use some creativity and in-game logic to come up with plausible explanations like you've done, but for such a major plot point there should be a LOT more exposition.



Regarding Kakariko I thought it was said somewhere in the game that Ganon didn't even know it housed a sage (Shadow Temple). Maybe I got that from something like Hyrule Historia actually? But yeah, he didn't attack Kakariko because he didn't see it as a threat. He did see the other temples/sages as threats though, which is why he froze Zora's domain/tried to freeze Lake Hylia, unleashed the dragon on the Gorons, sent his phantom to the Forest Temple, and let his people (and Twinrova) guard the Spirit Temple.

He also never knew Link would time warp, that much is explicitly in the game. He thought he would have his hands on the triforce while a little boy was trying to pull out a sword way too big for him to wield. That's not exactly illogical.
Ganon should have just collapsed the shadow temple, and Link would have never got the hover boots or loads of dungeons throughout the series with a key weapon in it. But he doesn't think that far ahead. I don't think it's a plot hole, I just think he's a simpleton. That's his personality,
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,764
I always thought Drake from Uncharted killing 10 times the amount of people with guns more than the villain and then the plot itself never mentioning this nor him being phased by it all.

The series ends with him happily living on a tropical island and then his daughter finding a Photo of them posing with guns.

Usually it's fine because video games but when it's a game focused on characters it kinda stands out.
 

JulianV

Member
Apr 10, 2018
473
About to replay Heavy Rain again and it got me thinking. Ethan's blackouts just get straight up dropped from the story half way through, we never do find out what happened during those missing chunks of time, some of them last several hours.

Even though it is a fairly obvious red herring to make us think Ethan is the killer, it still bugs the hell out of me that a major plot thread would be so casually discarded like that without mention ever again that deep into the story. There are any number of ways that Quantic Dream could have addressed this while still keeping the overall plot intact and still keeping Ethan as the main protagonist and Scott as the killer. But the fact that they didn't and left such a huge plot hole in the final version of the story has always bugged me.

I want to hear about more plot holes in games, so we can discuss them. So drop them in this thread here, ERA.
Some things explained:
 

spad3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,122
California
This one legit pissed me off in Heavy Rain:
Madison never encounters Shelby yet when she finds out who the killer is, she reacts as if she's known him the whole time.

WHAT
 

WGMBY

Member
Oct 27, 2017
515
Boston, MA
This, and also the fact
she kinda died that moment and was kept "alive" as a walking corpse by her connection to the baby, so I think timefall wouldn't have an affect? (her corpse didn't decompose either because of some weird explanations, that entire part was pretty iffy)

That is an interesting take on it. I assumed that the reason
her body didn't go necro was because her Ka transferred to Lockne, instead of leaving for the Beach
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,557
So the 3rd Birthday is a game of unstable timelines and time loops and body swaps that make absolutely no sense. The catalyst behind all of this bullshitery is a wedding where a SWAT team swarms in and opens fire. But it's never explained why a SWAT team wants to kill everyone at a wedding. It's just handwaved by the plot, like a totally normal occurrence.

Playing The 3rs Birthday was basically like playing the first few episodes of season 1 of the show, then every other chapter is the last episode of the next season but you don't know what happened in the last 21 episodes, rinse and repeated. To call them plotholes is the biggest understatement in the history of writing.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
I had forgotten she was trapped in that room, yeah.

But everything else still bothers me in the same way as before- all of this requires a lot of vague theories and connections that aren't at all mentioned in the game. If Zelda is giving Midna her ability to stay in the light realm, then how is Zelda able to return to the light realm after Ganon is defeated? Why is there no mention of rescuing Zelda after that until just before the end of the game?

It all seems like the writers want you to think she's dying to save Midna, but then at the end couldn't really go through with that plotline so they just inexplicably wrote her back into it. Like I said, you can definitely use some creativity and in-game logic to come up with plausible explanations like you've done, but for such a major plot point there should be a LOT more exposition.
Zelda is able to return to the realm of light because Midna returns Zelda's power to her. You see her do it in a cutscene after exorcising Ganondorf from Zelda's body. And I know you'll ask "But if Midna returns Zelda's power to her, how does Midna exist in the light?" It's because Midna has the completed Fused Shadows which protects her. Midna actually explains this to Link. She outright says that because she has this new power, she can return Zelda's power to her. She doesn't need it anymore.

You see, without the Fused Shadows, Midna cannot return Zelda's power to her or she'll die in the process. So when Zelda sacrifices herself, there's no way to bring her back. So Zelda is effectively "dead" as in she can't come back unless Midna wants to undo her sacrifice by killing herself. They can keep sacrificing themselves endlessly by passing around the power like a hot potato, if they want but that's not a solution. When Midna gets the Fused Shadows from Zant, the first thing she say to Link is that they have to save Zelda. She immediately realizes that now she can safely give Zelda's power back to her. Midna does not fully comprehend the power of the Fused Shadows until that moment as she's never used them all before. It's very clear that she doesn't if you watch the cutscene. That's why Midna doesn't bring up saving Zelda immediately because she doesn't think she can and all they can do is try and stop Zant.

Now is there a scene where Midna explains it all out exactly the way I did? No but it's easily inferred by what she says upon obtaining the Fused Shadows, I mean, she straight up says as much. I think people are just not used to having to infer things in video game stories from context. That said, you clearly have forgotten some plot details or dialogue from the game considering you forgot that Zelda was trapped in that room and that Midna returns Zelda's power to her, which are things that are explained clearly with dialogue. Not sure it's really fair from that position to say what I explained above is vague theory crafting when it's literally just what happens in the game. Was it a little sparsely explained and could've been more explicitly, repeatedly and openly stated? Sure. But not explained at all? Not true. Also did you really think they were going to permanently kill off Zelda? I think the idea that they planned to and then decided at the last second to bring her back doesn't really have anything backing it.

To address something you said earlier in the thread, about how you don't understand how people can like the game's story, I feel like there's plenty of reasons to like it? Like even if what you said is a plot hole was a plot hole, it doesn't make the entire story fall apart. Same with the bublin's kidnapping the children. I don't think they did it on any orders, just on a whim because they're monsters/outlaws. It really doesn't make the story impossible to understand. The basic plotline is pretty easy to follow and it's full of great set pieces, character moments and character development, all wrapped up in a pretty cool vibe with classic Zelda charm. It's not really that hard to understand why people would like the story in this game. It's a bit more involved than Zelda tends to be in a good way.
 
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HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,585
I always thought Drake from Uncharted killing 10 times the amount of people with guns more than the villain and then the plot itself never mentioning this nor him being phased by it all.

The series ends with him happily living on a tropical island and then his daughter finding a Photo of them posing with guns.

Usually it's fine because video games but when it's a game focused on characters it kinda stands out.
That's not a plot hole. That's dissonance between the characters in gameplay and everywhere else.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Zelda is able to return to the realm of light because Midna returns Zelda's power to her. You see her do it in a cutscene after exorcising Ganondorf from Zelda's body. And I know you'll ask "But if Midna returns Zelda's power to her, how does Midna exist in the light?" It's because Midna has the completed Fused Shadows which protects her. Midna actually explains this to Link. She outright says that because she has this new power, she can return Zelda's power to her. She doesn't need it anymore.

You see, without the Fused Shadows, Midna cannot return Zelda's power to her or she'll die in the process. So when Zelda sacrifices herself, there's no way to bring her back. So Zelda is effectively "dead" as in she can't come back unless Midna wants to undo her sacrifice by killing herself. They can keep sacrificing themselves endlessly by passing around the power like a hot potato, if they want but that's not a solution. When Midna gets the Fused Shadows from Zant, the first thing she say to Link is that they have to save Zelda. She immediately realizes that now she can safely give Zelda's power back to her. Midna does not fully comprehend the power of the Fused Shadows until that moment as she's never used them all before. It's very clear that she doesn't if you watch the cutscene. That's why Midna doesn't bring up saving Zelda immediately because she doesn't think she can and all they can do is try and stop Zant.

Now is there a scene where Midna explains it all out exactly the way I did? No but it's easily inferred by what she says upon obtaining the Fused Shadows, I mean, she straight up says as much. I think people are just not used to having to infer things in video game stories from context. That said, you clearly have forgotten some plot details or dialogue from the game considering you forgot that Zelda was trapped in that room and that Midna returns Zelda's power to her, which are things that are explained clearly with dialogue. Not sure it's really fair from that position to say what I explained above is vague theory crafting when it's literally just what happens in the game. Was it a little sparsely explained and could've been more explicitly, repeatedly and openly stated? Sure. But not explained at all? Not true. Also did you really think they were going to permanently kill off Zelda? I think the idea that they planned to and then decided at the last second to bring her back doesn't really have anything backing it.

To address something you said earlier in the thread, about how you don't understand how people can like the game's story, I feel like there's plenty of reasons to like it? Like even if what you said is a plot hole was a plot hole, it doesn't make the entire story fall apart. Same with the bublin's kidnapping the children. I don't think they did it on any orders, just on a whim because they're monsters/outlaws. It really doesn't make the story impossible to understand. The basic plotline is pretty easy to follow and it's full of great set pieces, character moments and character development, all wrapped up in a pretty cool vibe with classic Zelda charm. It's not really that hard to understand why people would like the story in this game. It's a bit more involved than Zelda tends to be in a good way.

Okay, I watched that cutscene near the end you were talking about and there was a part of it that's about 5 seconds long which shows Midna surprised to find a bunch of light particles leaving her and going to Zelda. Then Zelda says her heart was one with Midna's for a bit. So basically we're to assume Zelda's spirit was hanging out in Midna's body since that scene like 15 hours previously when Zelda vanished?

I guess I can accept that, but it still takes a LOT of theorycrafting to come up with the reasoning of what happened to her body during that whole process and how it wound up in Ganon's castle.

But maybe I missed another cutscene? Like this part of your post:

Midna actually explains this to Link. She outright says that because she has this new power, she can return Zelda's power to her. She doesn't need it anymore.

I didn't see anything like that in the cutscenes I just watched.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,678
I think it was cut content, because Ethan was supposed to have supernatural dreams / nightmares or something like that.

there was meant to be several pieces of DLC for the game, but they were cut in favour of providing support for something else Sony had in mind (move controller update?)
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,165
I love RE7 but maybe when you get a message from your missing girlfriend of several years that clearly leads you out into the middle of fucking nowhere, maybe you call the cops. How about when you find her bag on the ground with several other peoples belongings which was clearly trying to be disposed of? Maybe then? Nope just go in the spooky ass place.
 
OP
OP
Lightning Count
Jan 27, 2019
16,073
Fuck off
Resident Evil games.

Sometimes they make no sense.

'Yeah, no arguments there, I love the Resident Evil series but the plot contradicts itself all over the place.

None of the endings RE1/REmake show all of the confirmed survivors. If you finish the game as Chris, there's no Barry in the helicopter, in Jill's ending there is no sign of Rebecca, even though both are canonically confirmed as survivors of the mansion incident.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
Okay, I watched that cutscene near the end you were talking about and there was a part of it that's about 5 seconds long which shows Midna surprised to find a bunch of light particles leaving her and going to Zelda. Then Zelda says her heart was one with Midna's for a bit. So basically we're to assume Zelda's spirit was hanging out in Midna's body since that scene like 15 hours previously when Zelda vanished?

I guess I can accept that, but it still takes a LOT of theorycrafting to come up with the reasoning of what happened to her body during that whole process and how it wound up in Ganon's castle.

But maybe I missed another cutscene? Like this part of your post:



I didn't see anything like that in the cutscenes I just watched.
It almost sounds like you don't want to accept it even though it's clearly what happens. I'm not pulling this out of my ass. Like I said, you don't have to like how it was explained. You can say it was poorly conveyed to the player if that's how you feel. But it's not a plot hole.

As for the last part, I explained that in my post. It's right after you beat Zant. Midna gets the Fused Shadows and for the first time realizes their true power. You can tell because she's shocked about just how powerful a fraction of their power is, which is a thing she states. She then turns to Link and says:

"Link! Now is the time! We must save Zelda! The evil power Zant was wielding... I couldn't take it from him. But at least I still have the magic of my ancestors... With it, I can return the cherished power Zelda bestowed upon me. Now let's go! Princess Zelda is waiting!"

So with the prior knowledge that Midna intends to return Zelda's power to her, the 5 second scene of light passing between her and Zelda, immediately followed by Zelda waking up is all the context you need to understand what's happening. The game doesn't explain in dialogue how the power is transferred but I don't really see why it has to. We can infer these things and it's not just theorycrafting.

I mean, no offense but I don't see how it's fair for you to dismiss me by saying I'm theorycrafting here when you've been making incorrect claims about the story when you clearly can't remember what happens in it. I'm not sure what other things I'd have to correct you on to convince you. I mean you are confused about how Zelda ended up in Ganon's Castle but it wasn't his castle, it was Hyrule Castle. Zelda never left. This plot point in particular is one I see people call a plot hole all the time and every time they either misremember or forget plot points because it's been a long time since they played the game or they just straight up didn't pay attention to the dialogue. It's a little annoying to be honest.