Oooooh interesting! I might get Eevee, because I love Flareon. But I also love Raichu :'-)
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Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu / Eevee Review Thread
- Thread starter Galava
- Start date
So if I got it right Pokemon fans are angry at the Pokemon Lite game being actually fairly good because if it does well critically and commercially they fear they'll lose their hardcore Pokemon games?
Oh, you're right.
If fundamentally has less content than the GBA RBY remakes from like 15 years ago. Better?
Hmm... The thing that gets me about this, is that Pokémon has always been for everyone, and primarily aimed at children. And while there are indeed many complex things about it, I won't deny the games complexity, that has never been this huge talking point until now. Kids can clearly handle it. Just like they can handle stuff like Minecraft, and do all kinds of insane stuff there. If this weren't the case, every main series game wouldn't have sold millions upon millions of copies. They don't do that on the back of just a 30+ year old audience. It's still the kids driving the bulk of those sales, each and every time. However complex they may or may not be, there's absolutely zero indication that's turned off any significant number of children, and children by and large keep showing up and keep playing them. Because Pokémon games are all made for everyone, and they do a good job for it.
And that's what gets me about these games, speaking personally here. Not that they're not designed exclusively for me. I don't really give a fuck about that, nor expect it in way whatsoever. I would never be that selfish. On the contrary, what gets me is that every game for the beginning has been for everyone, both casual and core... And they've all released to tremendous success. So, what's changed? Why do these two groups suddenly have to be split, or something? Why can't one game do it all, and be for everyone, just as it's always been?
Like, that's the whole thing for me with stuff like this: that the main game is always targeted at children and easing in young and new plays as easily as possible, and then it's the post-game and online and stuff, if anything, that's more focused at the core audience and everyone else, looking for more of a challenge. A balance in that kinda way.
But now, despite this never being a problem before, this whole idea just presupposes the mainline Pokémon games are too complex for children to get into, that they need something like this to ease them into it, despite that never being the case until now. The main games have done just fine having something for everyone (with, if anything, people complaining that the main games hold your hands too much as it is and have too many tutorials and stuff in the early sections, precisely to help out younger and less experienced players get accustomed to things). Have an easy main game to ease people in, introducing mechanics and the Pokémon themselves and everything bit by bit over the course of the game, and then letting people completely lose by the end and do whatever they want in terms of the online options, post-game content, etc.
So like I'm not opposed to it, whatsoever. I'm just confused by it, since this is exactly what Game Freak did with each and every game anyway. And now, with this whole idea that not only is Pokémon complex, but it's so complex that it needs a whole pair of games to act as a tutorial unto themselves... it's like, how to put it. That strikes me as a failure on Game Freak's part, more than anything. Because if that's indeed the case, if Pokémon is indeed that complex, how is making a whole pair of games to act as a tutorial the answer, instead of improving the tutorials in the games themselves or actually simplifying the main games or something? How's this actually fix anything, especially since, come Generation 8, all that complexity comes back which these 6 year-olds or whatever aren't prepared for in any way because it was removed in Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee and now is suddenly back again, and then what? How does stuff like this actually help address these problems (vs actually reducing the complexity or having better tutorials or the like), if making the games more accessible to a younger audience is indeed the intent, since those problems will all come right back anyway?
It's just a very, very bizarre answer especially since this hasn't been a thing until now because of reasons like that, they've done just fine and there's no sign there series is on decline or anything, that kids are dropping it off or actually finding it more complex, so why now? And that even if so, if that were the case, how does this actually help those problems going forward or actually do anything to improve the situation? The whole conceit doesn't make much sense to me, when you think of it like that. It just seems like a way of, as is happening right now, for both camps to just get really angry and upset at each other for no good reason, and then come Gen 8, everything's right back as it was and nothing's changed, making it all the more silly.
Of course to be perfectly clear about this I'm not "7 year-olds shouldn't play Pokémon, grr, grr!" because of course that's nonsensical and nobody should ever say something like that, no duh, since it's a great idea and something that absolutely should be encouraged and if it's indeed a problem that people, particularly very young players, are finding the series too complex, something should absolutely be done about that so they can more easily enjoy it. I'm all about that. But at the same time, I'm just confused because that group has always played Pokémon and by all indications by-and-large still are (and that even if they're not, as covered above, how does stuff like this actually fix anything and not just make us all wind up right back where we started anyway). So appealing to them in particular, like they suddenly need something like this for whatever reason, when nothing actually indicates that, nothing indicates that kids are actually dropping off because of the complexity or that kids are getting dumber or anything (if anything, the contrary and I'm always impressed what kids are doing these days with creative games like Minecraft and the like)... the question that comes to mind, is why? Why this sudden need for a split, when nothing actually indicated that it was necessary? Why can't we all just share the same games, and have something there for everyone, as it's always been?
And because of that, I just worry about the rhetoric around these games and Gen 8, because so many people, whether they intend to or otherwise, are basically saying "these games are for kids, and Gen 8 is for the core audience." And I'm just like, okay, but is that a healthy thing going forward? Or will that just exasperate the casual/core split in the franchise, literally going to the point of giving them their own games and sectioning them off in that type of way, and is this just a one-off thing, or will it continue to the future and both the Let's Go series and the "core" games end up turning into just that, their own separate things going forward, and is that really a good thing, or not?
Because how much those two groups are going at each other because of these games is already kinda ugly and toxic and definitely no good at all, despite them having their own things. That's exactly the thing, as you yourself bring up! That Gen 8 games do exist and are planned, but this is still happening anyway! And so, if this becomes some kind of new norm, with Let's Go and everything else, I can't help being a bit anxious and nervous about that, since it's already bad and if this just continues into the future, well, that's obviously not very good at all no matter which "side" you happen to come down on, since everyone's just annoyed at each other and going at each others' throats and stuff despite them each having what they want.
And like, to be clear, the Pokémon fanbase has definitely already had it's fair share of problems when it comes to toxicity and various different parts of the fandom going at each others throats and stuff, particularly in the context of stuff like "generation wars" and the like. But casual vs hardcore players really ain't too much of a thing (beyond core players wishing for stuff like difficulty options and stuff like the Battle Frontier returning, and being disappointed when they don't, but that's it). But Let's Go Eevee & Pikachu really made that stuff come out in force because that's precisely the thing, now the games themselves are segregating the fanbase in that kinda way, and that's never really happened before. Everything's just always been for everyone, with each and every game being it's own jumping-on point.
And now these games have shifted that, and everything that's happened happened as a result, and I just wonder what will happen going into the future. But all I know is, at least for the time being, things were certainly better when everyone just shared the same games and made do and there wasn't this split in the games themselves. And whether that split remains or fades away starting with Generation 8 remains to be seen, but all I can say is that I really hope it does, because I myself just hate all this toxicness and people going at each other's throats over these kind of things and being all aggressive towards each other and making all these assumptions and just assuming the absolute worst of each other, over and over and over again, and god, I just already want to go back to before LGE/LGP, when, while there were certainly problems in the fandom, at least this wasn't as much of one as it is now. So hopefully that indeed happens, and we can just go back to sharing and stuff, and going back to games where there's something for everyone and we all make do with that in our own ways, and everything is more or less fine, because otherwise, just ugh, because this is just not something I want to keep dealing with going forward, but time will tell I guess. Time will tell...
You're right I should have been more specific and said that it has less content than the standard Pokemon game for the last 10 years. Thinking that people wouldn't take me as literally as possible was my mistake, sorry.
This is why reviews don't matter for Pokémon.
I know the single player component for Let's Go will be boring even without me having the game. I do think removal of random encounters is a positive for the series, but the battles look to be a complete slog.
I do have a lot of fondness for Kanto. Gen 1 still remains my second favorite after all this time. I think Kalos was rock bottom in terms of characters, plot, and region design but these poorly proportioned Let's Go characters are a regression to that period. The game looks ugly, and Kanto deserves better.
For the people here who dropped X/Y and Sun/Moon early on from boredom, the nostalgia in Let's Go may not be enough to make it through.
A new Generation is only a year away, so no biggie overall. This will be a decent experience for a lot of new players in the meantime.
Your starter can't evolve, but you can still catch other Eevee and Pikachu to evolve
Ehh, I think the remake fears are kinda justified. Why keep around two different series of remakes? Also people have been quite unhappy with Game Freak for quite a while now, so I imagine that has to do with why they're not giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Why would people not take your post literally when you made a pretty specific comment?
"I had 7 bananas for lunch"
'Wow that's a lot, why so many?'
"OMG I DIDNT MEAN IT LITERALLY YOURE SO DUMB"
Starters in this game are quite special. They are partners, always with you, have different stats, new moves and don't evolve (like in Yellow). You can catch regular Pikachu/Eevee tho.
There's no gambling corner, but there are master trainers.
I wouldn't exactly say there's a good deal more content.
Again, like people said a million times in these threads. People concerned about this game's quality aren't sure gen 8 will be even good. Gen 6/7 already suffered thanks to gen 1 pandering and removal of content, this game even existing as it is makes people even more concerned about next year's game.
Not sure why one side feels they're justified in mocking other fans because they're supposedly gatekeeping the series, yet they're the only ones advocating for removal of stuff people like. No one wanted them to remove gen 1 Pokémon stuff from the games, yet gen 1 fans mock others that are getting their favorite characters and features cut (stuff that doesn't even bother anyone considering these games sell 15M+ per entry, mostly with children).
I was being genuine there, I should have said that it's a RBY remake with less content than the last one. My sentence was supposed to refer to Firered.
Ya know, if Sun and Moon had a tutorial and cutscene skip, it'd definitely be the best of the 3DS pokemon games
This seems wonderfully perfect for people like me who casually play the story and then put it down. I don't care about stats, or completing the pokedex, or battle arenas, or online battles. I just want to have fun being a pokemon trainer.
I'm excited for this Friday
I'm excited for this Friday
So now you did want people to take you literally but you just worded your post badly?
Are you sure you weren't just wrong?
Keep moving the goalpost. It's funny because not one Pokémon game has as much content as HGSS.
just don't play using the smogon rule set then
for a lot of people, the different metagames smogon provides is a lot of fun, especially as it allows you to use, win with and fight against Pokemon that wouldn't be used in the official formats
Love that cheekiness, OP. The vocal minority gets btfo again, as expected. Can't wait to get my copy on Friday.Pokémon Let's Go Haters
Score:
I'm not saying that, I was pointing out that treating Let's Go like a celebration of Pokemon's history as a whole is bullshit, considering that it blatantly casts aside everything that's not Go and RBY.
This is like saying Nintendo has a problem because not one Zelda has been as good as Ocarina of Time. None of those other Pokémon games were bad because they weren't as packed as HGSS. That's not where all the quality comes from.
...Like what? Supertraining? By boosting numbers with a dumb minigame? The only thing that let's you find that value directly is by using a reset bag and then soft-reseting the game so you don't actually reset your stats, then it was removed in Gen 7, replaced with what? SOS battles? Another problem with EVs is just how they work, this "4EV = 1 point for X stat" just goes to weird places all the time when they introduce confusing items like vitamins (+10EV) and feathers (+1IV) that don't exactly rise your stat unless you know what you're doing.
Yeah, EVs and IVs are non-intrusive, until little Jimmy goes online and gets wrecked by everyone that raised their pokémon with a guide in hand, hell, this is actually true for the battle tower-esque mode with every game, required for 100% completion for all i remember, also, they are not removing features (Pokémon and Items aside), they are replacing them with others that don't necessarily detract from the experience (As highlighted by overall positive reviews)
First-bolded: Gen 1 didn't have them, People enjoyed those games perfectly in the past and so will today (Adults: Nostalgia, Kids: Discovery), the game may not be for you, but this shouldn't be really be a visible area for reviewers to take some points away. Breeding, abilities and held items are completely intrusive when it comes to normal gameplay, as they produce effects that modify the party and generate unfair advantages on other pokémon, even for gen 1 pokémon so it's not an optional feature that casual players won't have to deal with either.
Examples: Poison point, Cute charm, Sturdy, Focus sash, choice band, quick claw etc.
Second-bolded: For you it may be, but some people don't care about pokémon after the OG 151 and that game is cathering to them, it's not like other games where less is objectively worse.
By what? Reviewers giving a Pokemon game the bare median score of any competent AAA game?
Well then I think they're just overreacting, much like the people who complained about games becoming overwhelmingly multiplayer affairs, the mobile market overtaking the hardcore one, GaaS becoming the dominant model or the open world format becoming a standard even when it doesn't fit.
Do you really believe those are the only people they're mocking here?
I'm sure they aren't. But those are 35 optional forms that can easily be ignored and a Pokemon you can't even get with Let's Go alone.
Greninja was voted the most popular Pokemon in the last popularity poll in Japan back in 2016. If we're going by popularity, it should be in here.
I do think this is a valid fear; HOWEVER, I do also think that Lets Go stands no chance at outselling Pokemon 2019
So I dislike, basically every aspect of the game. The graphics are bad. The exact recreation of Kanto looks bad in 3D. Difficulty is more lol than usual. There's very little content. Baffling design choices on what to keep. And removing abilities is like removing dual typings, neutering each Pokemon's uniqueness and sense of identity. All that coupled with Gamefreak grinding down any nostalgia I have for the reason until I don't care one bit about the reason, has led me to think this is a bad game on nearly every level. But normally I'd still get it.
Not this time. Removing any Pokemon is bad enough, but excluding the cross-gen Pokemon crosses a line I'm not willing to put down money for. Golbat doesn't like me, Pikachu can't have its super cute form, Tangela in incomplete, no one cares about Horsea now, and so on. I've defended GF's design choices for awhile, even through the somewhat contentious 3DS era. But the Pokemon themselves are the core of the experience, and if they can be tossed aside with no thought or care other than half-baked nostalgia, than I see no reason to get this. I'm going from getting both versions since Black and White to not even touching this. I still don't get how we got here.
My breaking point (hopefully) won't be an issue with gen 8, but let's not pretend the other games are free from other issues that Let's Go has. Maybe LG won't directly affect the other mainline games right away, but don't kid yourself. They're going to look at what did and didn't work for this and apply those lessons to the rest of the series. And we all know how well GF does at doing that in tune with what the fans actually want.
Not this time. Removing any Pokemon is bad enough, but excluding the cross-gen Pokemon crosses a line I'm not willing to put down money for. Golbat doesn't like me, Pikachu can't have its super cute form, Tangela in incomplete, no one cares about Horsea now, and so on. I've defended GF's design choices for awhile, even through the somewhat contentious 3DS era. But the Pokemon themselves are the core of the experience, and if they can be tossed aside with no thought or care other than half-baked nostalgia, than I see no reason to get this. I'm going from getting both versions since Black and White to not even touching this. I still don't get how we got here.
My breaking point (hopefully) won't be an issue with gen 8, but let's not pretend the other games are free from other issues that Let's Go has. Maybe LG won't directly affect the other mainline games right away, but don't kid yourself. They're going to look at what did and didn't work for this and apply those lessons to the rest of the series. And we all know how well GF does at doing that in tune with what the fans actually want.
I think one of the biggest problems people have with EVs is the fact that they are now aware that it exists. Because they are aware of it, it is suddenly complex and too much, even though in the grand scheme of things, if you are in just for the story, all of them basically means fuck all.
OP
OP
The "full" list is on Joe's tweets. Working on a full list to add to the OP. Just featured the "important" ones. There is a 7 and a 6 out there.
In what way are gen six and seven games aimed at hardcore players? If anything GF has been moving away from them, since the start of gen six, leaving out postgame content and modes because they feel only a minority of players will play them. It is the reason for no Battle Frontier in ORAS.
Pokémon isn't sold exclusively in Japan. Make that poll worldwide and the results would be a lot different.
And Let's Go threads continue to be embarrassing in Era, some people just can't let go (lol) of these games and don't understand that these are simple spin-offs trying to play more closely to the mainline titles, without exactly being one. Plus, if you're so worried about GF screwing up mainline Pokémon titles, I guess you're way too late already because, judging from people's impressions from previous games, GF seem to be doing just fine fucking up the formula without "Let's Go"-ing the games yet.
With that said, you won't see me complain that much about Let's Go, I plan to get it this week and have some good fun with it, but the moment GF reveals Pokémon 2019 and we see they've dumbed it down and taken a lot of cues from Let's Go, you'll see me riot for sure. Hopefully more people see it that way, but nah, they won't, it's best to keep coming back to a thread about something that just makes you mad again and again.
With that said, you won't see me complain that much about Let's Go, I plan to get it this week and have some good fun with it, but the moment GF reveals Pokémon 2019 and we see they've dumbed it down and taken a lot of cues from Let's Go, you'll see me riot for sure. Hopefully more people see it that way, but nah, they won't, it's best to keep coming back to a thread about something that just makes you mad again and again.
If you think that the 2019 game isn't going to be another "HEY Y'ALL LIKE KANTO????" game like XY and Sun/Moon then you're either very optimistic or can't see a trend here. I think it doesn't really matter that it'll sell more if just ends up being an extension of Let's Go's ethos.
Welp I was wrong. Other than a few examples, most reviews have judged the game based on its own merits. If that includes the oversimplification of the game, then that is only how much impacts how fun the game is. There are still a few duffers, but pleased to say I was wrong.
Yeah, I don't know why I expected otherwise. Pokémon game reviews often aren't representative of the games' actual quality.
When it's being advertising it as a mainline game, I think it's reasonable to expect it to get docked points for not being that.
In general, the gaming market is broadening due to expanding and changing demographics and each new path that is taken to reach this broadening market is seen as weakening the core that has been there. In reality, this isn't happening. The core has remained strong and profitable for the most part and we are still getting plenty of content specifically aimed at it or content that overlaps enough with it and other demographics that it hasn't been a problem.Well then I think they're just overreacting, much like the people who complained about games becoming overwhelmingly multiplayer affairs, the mobile market overtaking the hardcore one, GaaS becoming the dominant model or the open world format becoming a standard even when it doesn't fit.
There will always be a new boogeyman, but the reality is that the gaming market worldwide has never been stronger financially and that is overall a good thing for everyone.