• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,748
I mean, you can just read their posts talking like anyone who disagrees with the removal of 6 generations of characters are the ones "gatekeeping".
It's hard to sympathize with the notion of "but actually LGPE defenders are the real gatekeepers" when this is just one casual version of the title that's being followed up next year with a regular gen 8 title. God forbid those people are okay with a trimmed down experience.
 

unfashionable

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,072
Has any review mentioned how good the pokemon ball controller is for playing the game and if its worth buying? ie does it add to the experience?
 

Tarot Deck

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,231
I wasn't going to buy... Already have Dark souls, ending the DLC 2 in BOTW and 1/3 of the shrines of the main game, Valkyra Chronicles.

And Smash.

Fuck me.

This reviews + the movie trailer is what could finally bring me to buy it. And co-op with my gf
 

345

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,356
as someone who is pretty hardcore into pokemon go but only ever played yellow to any serious degree, this seriously sounds like the perfect pokemon game for me. excited for thursday.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
God forbid thinking that this:
cUC7iXY.png

Gn4czJq.jpg

is a little compliated right? Maybe admit that the games became complicated for some people that don't follow the games as closely as you. gatekeeping at it's worst.
This... isn't exactly a very fair post or seems like it comes remotely close to arguing in good face. Especially since you're using stuff like how base stats are calculated to try and indicate how complicated the other games are, but like, even Let's Go Eevee and Let's Go Pikachu do exactly the same thing! Just with EVs not being a factor, and Awakening Values and the Happiness Boost replacing them in the stat formula! It's no less complicated!

So, like, if that makes the other games complicated, then Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee are just as complicated for doing the same stuff, since, if you have to know them in the main games (you don't) or whatever argument you're making here, since they also exist in Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, you also have to know and understand that stuff to play these games as well, right?

But of course that's silly, you don't need to know any of that stuff to play Let's Go Eeevee/Pikachu, or the other games in the series. Nobody has the catch formula memorized, 'cause that doesn't matter anyway, and it all comes down to whether a Pokémon is weak enough and has a low enough catch rate that it can practically be a guaranteed catch, or it's something like a Legendary where it's pretty much just luck no matter what you do. Nobody cares about the formula, so bringing up the catch formula of all things as some kinda "gotcha" seems rather weak.

Like, if you want to argue that Pokémon games are complicated, that's fine. Because, indeed, there are a lot of complicated things about it, and we can talk about that. That's all fine, and I won't argue that. But this is not the way to make that argument and comes off really, really poorly and more like trolling than anything and just isn't the best approach if you actually want to get people on your side here, using obvious hyperbole like that, when, as far as those type of things go, even Let's Go Eevee and Pikachu do nothing to fix backend stuff like that and are just as complicated...
 

Deleted member 9584

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,132
I guess I don't frequent review threads much, or at least just stick to threads I'm interested in.

How frequently do we get audiences who are actively disappointed that the score is too high/not critical enough?

I usually (always) see fans getting frustrated for being too critical or nitpicking the game, not the other way around.

Not saying its wrong or anything, but just interesting to see.
Some people don't want Lets Go to be a hit so it's "simplified features" don't spill over to mainline Pokémon.

I could care less. I bet if this game is a hit, the catching mechanics from this game will be in Gen 8; heck, they probably already are in it.
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
There was never a consensus about if it was going to be good or not but the bigger issue is that will this affect next years game that's been the main concern and it's still a completely valid concern to have.

I still don't get this way of thinking. The 2019 game has been in development for a few of years and will be nearing the end of the development cycle. They specifically mentioned the 2019 game when they announced Let's Go (something they never do) and they specifically state that the 2019 game will be going back to a more traditional "core" Pokemon experience. Whether Let's Go does well sales and reviews-wise means absolutely nothing to the 2019 game because it will be so far along in development that nothing will be able to be changed. I really don't get all the fear of it selling well or being well received.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
Who is celebrating? Fact is this is supposed to be a reimagination of the original games. It's a bit unreasonable to assume every Pokémon will be available from the start. It's a shame you can't trade with older generations but not all generations have been cross compatible before. It also goes both ways. Game Freak catered to lapsed fans with both X/Y and S/M. People complained about that too, which just goes to show you can't please everyone.
They have the models ready. They're just excluding for the sake of excluding, like content post the 151 is as bad as gen 1 fans say.

It's crazy how much XY and SM pandered to gen 1 fans, yet they make a game only for them at expense of everyone else and you can't even criticize without people just using the bad "gatekeep" argument (non sensical when no one wanted games that randomly excluded whole generations).

It's hard to sympathize with the notion of "but actually LGPE defenders are the real gatekeepers" when this is just one casual version of the title that's being followed up next year with a regular gen 8 title. God forbid those people are okay with a trimmed down experience.
I don't know if you're familiar with the recent titles, but all of them pander to gen 1 at the expense over other gens already. This is just doing it to the extreme and excluding everyone else.

It's not like knowing a gen 8 is coming is a good thing when you aren't even sure if it will be good.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,924
I was posting in reference to a person who said the postgame is there for hardcore players to enjoy
This was the post you responded to
It also has Go mechanics to interest the mobile audience and lastly it has at least some depth and difficulty at the end of the game/post-game for the more hardcore fans that understand that this is a mostly casual game.
They said something was there for hardcore fans who went in with the expectation of things being more casual (and there is). You made it into something else.
 

Sebastopa

Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,782
I don't think that this is a fair post. No one is looking at these calculations when capturing Pokémon. It's just something that certain people are interested in knowing. In addition, Gen 1 had similar stuff and so does Let's Go...


Those are like the worst examples you could've used lol. I'm not going to argue against Pokémon games getting complicated. I think over the years a lot of systems have been mish-mashed together and some trimming would actually improve the experience. But the %rate of capture? c'mon. It's not like you ever have to know the formula and for all we know, the formula in Let's Go could be even more complicated.

you don't need to know any of this to play this series

you're being ridiculously disingenuous

You don't honestly believe that let's go doesn't have complicated formulas like these in its backend as well, do you?

>good on the catch rate formula, goes along the implication of traditional catching but i admit let's go will probably have an even more complicated one.

Bit the other pic related still goes to show the actual implications of following EVs and tracking stats for "Advanced play" People need to know about that? No, they don't, that doesn't mean you can just go on and pretend that some people won't prefer simplified mechanics as a mean of getting some enjoyment from these games, the mayor point about the criticism from this point of view is how some of you just can't comprehend why they would need to create a product that is more accessible for a bigger audience, this "I played gen 1 as a kid and did just fine" also goes to show just how misguided you are on what kind of expectations other people may have towards the games.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,924
Am I reading wrong or there are people here who are unhappy that the game is getting a higher score than what they wanted?

Wtd... this is new to me.
There is an somewhat understandable fear that this will be what Pokemon is like Go I g forward if successful, even if Gamefreak has implied otherwise, but there is still an embarassi g overreaction to it all and it had continually made discussing the game toxic.
 

New Fang

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,542
These scores are the best possible outcome I imagined for this game. I still suspect the overall impression of this game won't be that positive months from now, and reviewers are probably cautious to give such a huge name like Pokemon less than an 8.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,427
>good on the catch rate formula, goes along the implication of traditional catching but i admit let's go will probably have an even more complicated one.

Bit the other pic related still goes to show the actual implications of following EVs and tracking stats for "Advanced play" People need to know about that? No, they don't, that doesn't mean you can just go on and pretend that some people won't prefer simplified mechanics as a mean of getting some enjoyment from these games, the mayor point about the criticism from this point of view is how some of you just can't comprehend why they would need to create a product that is more accessible for a bigger audience, this "I played gen 1 as a kid and did just fine" also goes to show just how misguided you are on what kind of expectations other people may have towards the games.
You're acting as if kids and newcomers didn't enjoy previous Pokémon games up to and including gen 7
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Awesome scores I'll definitely give this a shot. First Pokemon game since red/blue.
You're going to hear a lot of negativity, but it does seem like the aim of the title is working. To appeal to people who might have fallen off the series for one reason or another early on and get interested again after the pokemon go craze that swept the world.
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,689
The Great Dark Beyond
The amount of "Pokemon Fans" who want this to fail is mindblowing. Don't play it - wait until Gen 8. If you don't like Gen 8? Don't play that either.

FWIW, I've been playing since 1998 when I was 13. Is this the most hardcore Pokemon game ever? No. Will I play it? Of course. Gen 1 isn't my favorite generation of Pokemon but this game isn't made 100% for "33 year old who has been with the franchise for the past 25 years." It's easy to overlook that Pokemon may not be incredibly complex from our viewpoints but for little 7 year old Johnny Boy it may be a lot to grasp.

in before "MAYBE 7 YEAR OLDS SHOULDN'T PLAY POKEMON THEN. CASUALS!!!!!!!!"
 

krlitros87

Member
Oct 28, 2017
527
So is there more post-content than the Master trainers? I don't want to read spoilers, but is it good/bad ?
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,466
Personally I'm upset that this full priced title is missing mechanics and Pokemon that the 3DS titles had. I don't think the new features justify the absence of breeding, abilities, held items, 600+ Pokemon, tons of moves, etc. The new and old features shouldn't be mutually exclusive. I also think you can retool the existing mechanics to become more accessible without removing them outright.

That being said, I'm still excited for this game. I don't have to be hardcore fan and dismissive of this experience entirely. At the very least, this is the first and only Pokemon game like this. Being able to see Pokemon in the overworld, experiencing the game co-op with my wife, playing the game on my TV are experiences largely exclusive to this title. I'm excited for these features, and I think reviewers know their readers will be too.

Ive been waiting for them to cut fluff and make a tighter experience for awhile

I dont know that this is what I had in mind though.

Breeding - Ehhh never did this and always felt like a hassle. Maybe they could reimagine it

Abilities - Loved this and wanted to see it expanded with more being exclusive to pokemelon to further separate them as unique

Held Items - Fluff and wouldnt be sad to see this removed entirely.

600+ Pokemon - I love having a new roster but it needs to be justified. Without significant levels of unique pokemon that have exclusive skills, abilites, and combat roles I have a hard time not seeing them as remixed versions of what came before

Moves - should always be expanded along with new combat mechanics to further add variety.

So Yeah Go is a mixed bag for me. They kind of did some things I wanted and kind of didnt.

Still on the fence about it
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
I still don't get this way of thinking. The 2019 game has been in development for a few of years and will be nearing the end of the development cycle. They specifically mentioned the 2019 game when they announced Let's Go (something they never do) and they specifically state that the 2019 game will be going back to a more traditional "core" Pokemon experience. Whether Let's Go does well sales and reviews-wise means absolutely nothing to the 2019 game because it will be so far along in development that nothing will be able to be changed. I really don't get all the fear of it selling well or being well received.
The reason they did is because if they wouldn't have announced the 2019 game than the amount of criticism and worry against let's go would have been multiplied by 10 by announcing next years game they alievate some of that but it's a completely valid worry, they just need to keep them seperate because both existing is a good thing.
 

Sebastopa

Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,782
You're acting as if kids and newcomers didn't enjoy previous Pokémon games up to and including gen 7
And they will certainly enjoy Let's GO, probably more even, did you even read the whole post?
>good on the catch rate formula, goes along the implication of traditional catching but i admit let's go will probably have an even more complicated one.

Bit the other pic related still goes to show the actual implications of following EVs and tracking stats for "Advanced play" People need to know about that? No, they don't, that doesn't mean you can just go on and pretend that some people won't prefer simplified mechanics as a mean of getting some enjoyment from these games, the mayor point about the criticism from this point of view is how some of you just can't comprehend why they would need to create a product that is more accessible for a bigger audience, this "I played gen 1 as a kid and did just fine" also goes to show just how misguided you are on what kind of expectations other people may have towards the games.
 

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
I'm honestly just upset that gamefreak felt they needed to specifically ignore their biggest fans to cater to a crowd they were already catering to anyways

So you think you are one of their biggest fans ?

No wonder you'll feel entitled. The fanbase is so big and diverse these days that none have the legitimacy to have these kind of claims.
 

Zeroneo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
666
>good on the catch rate formula, goes along the implication of traditional catching but i admit let's go will probably have an even more complicated one.

Bit the other pic related still goes to show the actual implications of following EVs and tracking stats for "Advanced play" People need to know about that? No, they don't, that doesn't mean you can just go on and pretend that some people won't prefer simplified mechanics as a mean of getting some enjoyment from these games, the mayor point about the criticism from this point of view is how some of you just can't comprehend why they would need to create a product that is more accessible for a bigger audience, this "I played gen 1 as a kid and did just fine" also goes to show just how misguided you are on what kind of expectations other people may have towards the games.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here? People who care about formulas and min-maxing will do that regardless if it's complicated or not and people that don't will just play the game without caring. This is literally how every game works including Let's GO. I can understand your argument for the overall gameplay but for the inner workings of the game?

You mention EV but while Let's GO removed that it added awakening stats and happiness boost. Will a regular person care about this change?
 
Nov 1, 2017
2,337
>good on the catch rate formula, goes along the implication of traditional catching but i admit let's go will probably have an even more complicated one.

Bit the other pic related still goes to show the actual implications of following EVs and tracking stats for "Advanced play" People need to know about that? No, they don't, that doesn't mean you can just go on and pretend that some people won't prefer simplified mechanics as a mean of getting some enjoyment from these games, the mayor point about the criticism from this point of view is how some of you just can't comprehend why they would need to create a product that is more accessible for a bigger audience, this "I played gen 1 as a kid and did just fine" also goes to show just how misguided you are on what kind of expectations other people may have towards the games.

But these games still have stats with hidden complex formulae. Stats are not simpler in this. There's just less content in general.

So is there more post-content than the Master trainers? I don't want to read spoilers, but is it good/bad ?

Don't get your hopes up. It's really not much.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
Gen 1 isn't my favorite generation of Pokemon but this game isn't made 100% for "33 year old who has been with the franchise for the past 25 years." It's easy to overlook that Pokemon may not be incredibly complex from our viewpoints but for little 7 year old Johnny Boy it may be a lot to grasp.

in before "MAYBE 7 YEAR OLDS SHOULDN'T PLAY POKEMON THEN. CASUALS!!!!!!!!"
No one said this.

The problem is that the selling point for this is nostalgia for a game that these kids didn't even play... but they did play SM/USUM. So yeah, it's a weird argument. Feels more like 20/30y old people wanting their nostalgia at expense of other fans (including children).
 

Cryxok

Member
Oct 27, 2017
433
México
>good on the catch rate formula, goes along the implication of traditional catching but i admit let's go will probably have an even more complicated one.

Bit the other pic related still goes to show the actual implications of following EVs and tracking stats for "Advanced play" People need to know about that? No, they don't, that doesn't mean you can just go on and pretend that some people won't prefer simplified mechanics as a mean of getting some enjoyment from these games, the mayor point about the criticism from this point of view is how some of you just can't comprehend why they would need to create a product that is more accessible for a bigger audience, this "I played gen 1 as a kid and did just fine" also goes to show just how misguided you are on what kind of expectations other people may have towards the games.

I mean... you just agreed you don't need to know these formulas. Not even competitive players are required to know either. So if you don't need to know them, why would removing them improve the experience of any player?

I agreed there currently exists a mis-match of systems that have been accumulating over the generations. We could talk about weird evolution methods or odd shape-shifting forms or items with confusing effects/descriptions. Y'know, stuff that actually can affect a player's experience.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,867
Man if you think the pokemon catching formula is complicated, wait till you see the hidden math in other games!
 

unrealist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
757
So many people have forgotten this is not a mainline Pokemon game ... it's meant for another audience and having another good (maybe everyone wants a greater than good one) Pokemon game is better than having done.

It is like you are shitting on Pokemon Mystery dungeon for not being hardcore enough.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,871
God forbid thinking that this:
cUC7iXY.png

Gn4czJq.jpg

is a little compliated right? Maybe admit that the games became complicated for some people that don't follow the games as closely as you. gatekeeping at it's worst.
The only mechanics that are necessary to be concerned with are what the games already tutorialize (weakening Pokemon by lowering their hit points and inflicting statuses) and what each different ball does.

I personally feel loss of mechanics like wild battles (which would have already been more casual friendly by being on-map encounters that are easily avoided or opted into) or held items which are already usually not necessary to beat the single player game are a bit too much of a cut back in terms of streamlining the game. Meanwhile I'm wondering why IV mechanics which have always been a particularly advanced and grindy task are still present.
 
Nov 14, 2017
2,834
Do any of the reviews go in-depth on how the controls work? I want to know how restricted they are since I already can't use the pro controller or joycon grip. I want to use the left joycon vertically with the L button acting as the A button, but every bit of live demo footage I've seen either uses the right joycon or the Pokeball Plus.
 

Deleted member 2618

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,176
God forbid thinking that this:
cUC7iXY.png

Gn4czJq.jpg

is a little compliated right? Maybe admit that the games became complicated for some people that don't follow the games as closely as you. gatekeeping at it's worst.
Yo I forgot about these equations! This is basic algebra. I thought it had a 2nd order derivative somewhere but nah. This is awesome.
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
So many people have forgotten this is not a mainline Pokemon game ... it's meant for another audience and having another good (maybe everyone wants a greater than good one) Pokemon game is better than having done.

It is like you are shitting on Pokemon Mystery dungeon for not being hardcore enough.
That's false though, they have said it's a mainline game.
 

shan780

The Fallen
Nov 2, 2017
2,566
UK
some people itt are really worked up over these supposed "hardcore gatekeepers"

god forbid they be disappointed in a Pokemon game removing the vast majority of the Pokemon and lots of mechanics