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Pokémon Sword and Shield launch event in Japan cancelled for "operational reasons"

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BeanBoi

Member
Jun 20, 2019
61
I feel like most of the anger would have been lessened if they were direct about the cut in say an actual pokemon direct or something of the kind, like post a video apologizing about the fact they had to cut the pokemon number down to half, not tippy toes the situation and say stuff in nintendo treehouse events/things the majority of people didnt watch. I'm still getting the game since i get a good discount on it... and a good chunk of my favorites are in the game, the only blame i have for gamefreak/tpc is their lack of a Clear Statement on the whole debacle (basically release a damn youtube video and say this is how it has to be or some crap) and i do blame people for going WAYYYYY overboard for attacking the company (hell it reminds me of when people attacked the director of DQ11 S for the demo having a bug on twitter to the point he had to make it private for his own health)
I agree with this. It has just been an absolute mess overall, and I just want the game to come out so people can form their own opinions (for those that purchase it), and we can see what's up.

While I am adamantly against the decisions Gamefreak has made with this game, at the end of the day Dexit and the marketing around the thing was a decision by higher ups and shitslinging devs into it is just ignorant. If that is why they cancelled it, then cmon man.
 

MegaXZero

Member
Jun 21, 2018
2,993
It’s hard not to think of this and the recent events in Japan with threats, as outlined in the article.

It just feels doubtful they would have cancelled this over backlash. Given recent events, any threats they have received would feel even more dangerous.
 

Miller

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,001
Re: Masuda's "rape allegations"

I hate writing this post. I really do. And maybe someone else already has, but I just woke up and I'm still reading through the thread; I'm at page 5 and has this talking point ever made the discourse irritating to drudge through.


On July 2nd, a burner Twitter account under a bogus Japanese name made a broken English accusation of sexual misconduct directed toward Junichi Masuda. The patently absurd story briefly surmised an 8 year long relationship with a man obsessed with the sexual gratification of bugs.

This was not a credible story. This was 4chan's idea of a (heinous, reprehensible) joke just as much about the perceived absurdity of the #MeToo movement as it was about "Dexit." There are posts at /vp/ from the weeks before that point to it being a plan concocted there (as if there was any doubt.)

There were not multiple accusations. No major outlets picked up this story because it was clearly a (shitty, disgusting, indefensible) joke. Even this very clickbait article we're discussing in this thread didn't bring it up.

Please, please let this be the last post we ever make about it. Quote this if you have to. You have to understand that saying "fake rape accusations against Masuda" without any additional context only signal boosts the strike against his character. People will think there MIGHT be something to that accusation. People begin to correlate Masuda's name with something heinous. Please stop.

Furthermore, it's disingenuous to paint this as some concerted effort among "Dexit protestors" for reasons I hope are not worth stating, and also to imply there are multiple "accusations" when there are not. This is an extremely sensitive subject, and it's important to handle it with the care it deserves. Do not flippantly shout "false rape accusations against Masuda" with a blatant disregard for his reputation. I beg you. Sincerely.


Now, back to catching up on this thread.
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,420
Voting with our wallets isn’t enough don’t you see? They have to know what they did over and over and over and over through every platform we have for MONTHS.

How could we simply just not give them our money for their product? How would that send them a message?
Some people want to play the game and want to criticize the decision, while not prioritizing it enough to justify not purchasing it?

Doesn't seem all that different from people persistently bringing up BotW's dungeon count two years after its release and it selling well, even from those who bought it. Some issues aren't really dealbreakers for people.

It should go without saying that I don't condone social media harassment campaigns.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,134
Yeah, the team for Sword and Shield is much larger than their Sun/Moon team.


Yes. Massive increase in team size compared to the 3DS games per Game Freak.
Most of that is non full time contract work and people not directly working on development.
Game Freak's internal team has grown, but it's still tiny for the size of Pokemon and how many games they have in development at any time.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,134
Re: Masuda's "rape allegations"

I hate writing this post. I really do. And maybe someone else already has, but I just woke up and I'm still reading through the thread; I'm at page 5 and has this talking point ever made the discourse irritating to drudge through.


On July 2nd, a burner Twitter account under a bogus Japanese name made a broken English accusation of sexual misconduct directed toward Junichi Masuda. The patently absurd story briefly surmised an 8 year long relationship with a man obsessed with the sexual gratification of bugs.

This was not a credible story. This was 4chan's idea of a (heinous, reprehensible) joke just as much about the perceived absurdity of the #MeToo movement as it was about "Dexit." There are posts at /vp/ from the weeks before that point to it being a plan concocted there (as if there was any doubt.)

There were not multiple accusations. No major outlets picked up this story because it was clearly a (shitty, disgusting, indefensible) joke. Even this very clickbait article we're discussing in this thread didn't bring it up.

Please, please let this be the last post we ever make about it. Quote this if you have to. You have to understand that saying "fake rape accusations against Masuda" without any additional context only signal boosts the strike against his character. People will think there MIGHT be something to that accusation. People begin to correlate Masuda's name with something heinous. Please stop.

Furthermore, it's disingenuous to paint this as some concerted effort among "Dexit protestors" for reasons I hope are not worth stating, and also to imply there are multiple "accusations" when there are not. This is an extremely sensitive subject, and it's important to handle it with the care it deserves. Do not flippantly shout "false rape accusations against Masuda" with a blatant disregard for his reputation. I beg you. Sincerely.


Now, back to catching up on this thread.
Yeah, people love to bring that tweet up to show how bad "dexiters" are even though nobody believed the claim and the people who spread it the most were Game Freak defenders.
 

PancakeFlip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,230
It’s hard not to think of this and the recent events in Japan with threats, as outlined in the article.

It just feels doubtful they would have cancelled this over backlash. Given recent events, any threats they have received would feel even more dangerous.
I think this would not have been canceled if not for the leaks, there were many Japanese twitter fans who politely asked for the cut Pokemon roster because that was going to determine their pre-order decision. They were completely ignored, then right before release its revealed that it was enough cuts that asking for that information is reasonable, even if there were no threats of violence the dishonesty and poor customer service made for the build up of a really bad launch event enviorment.
 

Craymond

Member
Oct 28, 2017
565
Portland
No doubt because a bunch of internet trolls that compared the def to fucking Brexit. There is a difference between having your voice heard as a fan and being irrational, irresponsible and hateful for no reason. So maybe it is like Brexit.... nope still not.
 

JoeInky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,100
Voting with our wallets isn’t enough don’t you see? They have to know what they did over and over and over and over through every platform we have for MONTHS.

How could we simply just not give them our money for their product? How would that send them a message?
Because voting with your wallet does literally nothing, especially in large franchises that are going to sell no matter what, it definitely doesn't communicate why you aren't buying the game.

I voted with my wallet when EA stopped putting their games on Steam with Dead Space 3, they probably didn't even notice, they just canned the series because it under performed.

I'm going to be voting with my wallet for this franchise, GameFreak won't notice and we'll get a shit load of smug people going "see we told you the dex cuts don't matter" even though none of us are saying the games won't sell.

Edit: I hope to fuck I don't have to write "I don't condone harassment or threats" on this post without people trying to paint me as endorsing it because I swear to god that shit is infuriating.
 

BradenAndEggs

Member
Jan 8, 2018
209
Some people want to play the game and want to criticize the decision, while not prioritizing it enough to justify not purchasing it?

Doesn't seem all that different from people persistently bringing up BotW's dungeon count two years after its release and it selling well, even from those who bought it. Some issues aren't really dealbreakers for people.

It should go without saying that I don't condone social media harassment campaigns.
That kind of feedback is usually understood. That’s not the hyperbolic vitriol that is everywhere lately though.
 

Yesterday

Member
Oct 27, 2017
681
User Banned (5 days): Inflammatory trolling
The people acting like Gamefreak put all of their friends in a gas chamber are hilarious
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,967
No doubt because a bunch of internet trolls that compared the def to fucking Brexit. There is a difference between having your voice heard as a fan and being irrational, irresponsible and hateful for no reason. So maybe it is like Brexit.... nope still not.
Dexit was the name cause it’s a British based region, Pokémon were “leaving” the game, and imo -gate controversy names are old.
 

BradenAndEggs

Member
Jan 8, 2018
209
Because voting with your wallet does literally nothing, especially in large franchises that are going to sell no matter what, it definitely doesn't communicate why you aren't buying the game.

I voted with my wallet when EA stopped putting their games on Steam with Dead Space 3, they probably didn't even notice, they just canned the series because it under performed.

I'm going to be voting with my wallet for this franchise, GameFreak won't notice and we'll get a shit load of smug people going "see we told you the dex cuts don't matter" even though none of us are saying the games won't sell.
If the games sell really well and the people that bought it really like it ...doesn't that mean the games have pleased their target audience?

Doesn’t that mean that this is just a vocal minority and they have been this loud for no reason?

For me it’s not about whether or not the games sell. It’s about whether or not the dex cuts will lead to BAD games. I’m willing to bet no.
 

Donizetty

Member
Oct 28, 2017
630
Mexico
woah! Some of you are so explosive. Calm down pals. We can to talk without get mad.

I get the angry and If I'd live at Japan, I could be part of that protest. How in the hell bulbasaur was cut if it is used in the new promos?
 

dunkzilla

Member
Dec 13, 2018
1,059
No doubt because a bunch of internet trolls that compared the def to fucking Brexit. There is a difference between having your voice heard as a fan and being irrational, irresponsible and hateful for no reason. So maybe it is like Brexit.... nope still not.
Nobody is comparing it to Brexit. It’s just a. Funny name because the region is based on Britain and Pokédex happens to mesh well with the word brexit
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,134
If the games sell really well and the people that bought it really like it ...doesn't that mean the games have pleased their target audience?

Doesn’t that mean that this is just a vocal minority and they have been this loud for no reason?

For me it’s not about whether or not the games sell. It’s about whether or not the dex cuts will lead to BAD games. I’m willing to bet no.
"Games sold well, thus criticism is invalid."
It doesn't work like that. People can still buy the games and be upset with decisions made.
 

Chauzu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,820
woah! Some of you are so explosive. Calm down pals. We can to talk without get mad.

I get the angry and If I'd live at Japan, I could be part of that protest. How in the hell bulbasaur was cut if it is used in the new promos?
The Bulbasaur line didn’t seize to exist or anything, they just aren’t in SwSh.
 

Cronogear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,952
ah okay, that's nice to know then people make it seem like they didnt. do you know if it was by a big amount?
Masuda said around 50% more.
So overall, how much bigger would you say, roughly speaking, this project was compared to previous games?

Masuda:
It’s hard to give a really clear answer but I’d say maybe 1.5 times the number of people as a general estimate.

Ohmori: That’s more of just kind of speaking from feeling, though, not any kind of specific number.
The "1000 people" number that gets thrown around includes those in marketing and PR. Ohmori says the core team that actually worked on the game was about 200 people.

 

dunkzilla

Member
Dec 13, 2018
1,059
Masuda said around 50% more.


The "1000 people" number that gets thrown around includes those in marketing and PR. Ohmori says the core team that actually worked on the game was about 200 people.

Yeah GF have ~200 employees. Always wondered why they don’t increase size given their insane release schedule.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,792
HOME is on the Switch, not just a "dumb phone app"

Also ever consider maybe Pokémon isn't for you if you don't like the games anymore?

I don't like Halo anymore. I used to, but I don't. However I'm not screaming at 343 and Microsoft about it. I just stopped buying it and stopped playing it. Maybe I'm just crazy for doing that and should yell more.
Why do you and everyone else ITT assume that voicing displeasure = "lol well u just grew out of the series"? There's a complete difference between growing out of a series, vs. when a series makes strange design decisions that runs counter to the appeal of the franchise. Especially when Pokemon is a franchise that has all-ages appeal. You run a Pokemon site and you can't even see that point clearly?

Like do you not see the amount of teenagers, young adults, and adults playing Pokemon Go and then using that as a launchpad to experience the games? Or how many differing demographics play the main series games?

Can people just stop posting the idiotic "lol shut up and stop complaining, you outgrew [thing]" argument once and for all?
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
6,547
Masuda said around 50% more.


The "1000 people" number that gets thrown around includes those in marketing and PR. Ohmori says the core team that actually worked on the game was about 200 people.

Every time anyone mentions a dev team it includes people who aren't coders. People who translate etc., people who test and yet only when it's Pokémon are we thinking "we shouldn't count them"
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,420
That kind of feedback is usually understood. That’s not the hyperbolic vitriol that is everywhere lately though.
I've only been exposed to the discourse on these forums and haven't really noticed hyperbolic vitriol here that hasn't been taken care of with moderation. I don't browse /vp/, /r/pokemon or watch many Pokemon YouTubers so I'm not familiar with what's happening there. Fans who express reasonable criticism don't really have much control over assholes like the one Miller mentioned who manufactured a conspiracy against Masuda, or the idiots on Twitter who compare this to Hong Kong protests. Best one can do is speak out against them.

Doesn’t that mean that this is just a vocal minority and they have been this loud for no reason?
And I don't really think the issue is that binary, I don't think the Dex cuts are a significant enough dealbreaker for the majority of people, even the vocal critics. I don't intend on transferring any Pokemon over and will be enjoying the game Day 1, but I won't pretend the absence of a favorite old Pokemon isn't disappointing. To bring up my earlier example, BotW is a 10/10 game for me but I still think the 4 Divine Beasts as main dungeons is underwhelming, and my voice is among many, including those who hate the game. A vocal minority maybe, 'no reason' - nah.

The people acting like Gamefreak put all of their friends in a gas chamber are hilarious
Is this necessary
 

BradenAndEggs

Member
Jan 8, 2018
209
"Games sold well, thus criticism is invalid."
It doesn't work like that. People can still buy the games and be upset with decisions made.
I didn’t say that. Read it again. I said if the MAJORITY of people LIKE the game that bought it, doesn’t that make the MINORITY’S criticism matter less? How can the games be BAD if they are doing what they were designed to do: please the very large audience that bought it?
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,134
I didn’t say that. Read it again. I said if the MAJORITY of people LIKE the game that bought it, doesn’t that make the MINORITY’S criticism matter less? How can the games be BAD if they are doing what they were designed to do: please the very large audience that bought it?
A purchase of a game doesn't mean that the person buying it likes everything about it.
 
Jun 23, 2019
839
Yeah we weren't really aware of how big Dexit was going to be. 400 Pokemon is a joke.

They aren't going to allow for the use of over half the Pokemon from previous generations. That's honestly unacceptable. If you don't want to spend time rebalancing them that's fine. Just limit VGC and Ranked Singles to Galar Dex only.

But for gods sake people have living dexes that they transfer over from game to game, and now you're saying that.

1. You need to buy a Pokemon game for 50% of the additional price as the previous ones.
2. You need an online subscription to trade Pokemon with others online.
3. Pokemon Home, the subscription service that replaced bank and they advertised as THE MEDIUM FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF BRINGING OVER POKEMON OF PREVIOUS GAMES will not work with certain Pokemon in Sword and Shield. Mind you they released this back BEFORE we knew Pokemon was going to be cut, basically pulling a bait and switch on us.

And straight up lying and avoiding the scale and the reasons for such a massive cut, then of course you're going to get outrage.

Gamefreak was not prepared to tackle HD development. It's not a 'laxy devs' issue, it's a management issue. Gamefreak upper management was somehow completely unprepared for the Switch, thinking that it would fail, and thus they didn't make the required pipelines of development until it was too late and they were forced to cut in order to make stuff happen in time.

Honestly Nintendo needs to find a way to wrench SOME control of Pokemon Development from Gamefreak. The story of Sword and Shield development isn't a story of 'lazyness', it's misaligned visions and bad faith leading to required cuts that they knew people wouldn't be willing to take, and then the PR team just angered everyone further by the obfuscation and now its all exploding with the leaks.
Amazing post.
 

Craymond

Member
Oct 28, 2017
565
Portland
Dexit was the name cause it’s a British based region, Pokémon were “leaving” the game, and imo -gate controversy names are old.
I don’t buy it folks not with the vitriol that was spewing out in all corners of the internet. It’s disgusting, trust me I get the “joke”, this is not a no fun allowed moment. It is stupid and ugly.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
864
I didn’t say that. Read it again. I said if the MAJORITY of people LIKE the game that bought it, doesn’t that make the MINORITY’S criticism matter less? How can the games be BAD if they are doing what they were designed to do?
You're pretending what one set of people wants is adversarial to what the minority wants, which is not at all true. I think it's fair to say everyone would prefer it if all Pokémon were available in the game, independently of their opinion of the games as they actually are.

I'm sure SwSh will be fine games, but it would be very hard to argue that they wouldn't be better for everyone if it carried its content forward. For some people, it's the point of the series.
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,420
I didn’t say that. Read it again. I said if the MAJORITY of people LIKE the game that bought it, doesn’t that make the MINORITY’S criticism matter less? How can the games be BAD if they are doing what they were designed to do: please the very large audience that bought it?
Link's Awakening's framerate issues were and are a persistent complaint despite the general consensus that it is a solid remake, so no, the minority's criticism doesn't matter less just because the majority of the people liked the game and it sells and/or reviews well. I also think the Dex cuts will be brought up more than something like the lack of a Battle Frontier in ORAS, which many perceived only 'hardcore' fans to care about.
 

Bluewind098

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,823
And don't you think it's low to put in front of you a pokemon that does exist but you can't use?
They exist in Go which more casual fans are likely going to be familiar with and be more relevant for. Plus just because they're not in SwSh doesn't mean they're gone for good for even this Gen. If we get a new Gen 8 game next year and they have Bulbasaur then this entire point is moot as the Pokemon just took a small hiatus from the games.

Like I get the cuts are disappointing but don't act like the Pokemon just doesn't exist just because they're not in one game. If you really care that much about a Pokemon line not being in one Pokemon game then wait for another one that does.
 

BradenAndEggs

Member
Jan 8, 2018
209
A purchase of a game doesn't mean that the person buying it likes everything about it.
Quality is subjective.
Yes ... but this may be naive but the goal of most games is to please their audience and make money.

If the games please the overwhelming majority audience and make money then I would say they are a success and I would say the minority's anger toward the removal of a feature would (and maybe should) matter less going forward.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
829
Yeah, people love to bring that tweet up to show how bad "dexiters" are even though nobody believed the claim and the people who spread it the most were Game Freak defenders.
Not only that it was literally bullshit cooked up on /vp/ and even THAT board mocked the attempt and the low standards journalists and defenders that even bothered to report on it like it was probably true. Like 99% of the bad actors have come directly from that board. Which is to be expected because its fucking 4chan(nel).
 

BloodshotX

Member
Jan 25, 2018
760
you could get ever single Pokemon in the last game so why not?
the last game was pokemon lets go, so no. But you probably talking about sun and moon right?
But yea a dissision had to be made or else we would have rosters of a 1000 pokemon before 2025.

Yes. See: Pokémon Sun and Moon.


They also already did that in Gen 5. But guess what? All other Pokémon were still available to be transferred into it.
Sun and moon are 3ds games tbh, this is a semi openworld pokemon game.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
864
They exist in Go which more casual fans are likely going to be familiar with and be more relevant for. Plus just because they're not in SwSh doesn't mean they're gone for good for even this Gen. If we get a new Gen 8 game next year and they have Bulbasaur then this entire point is moot as the Pokemon just took a small hiatus from the games.

Like I get the cuts are disappointing but don't act like the Pokemon just doesn't exist just because they're not in one game. If you really care that much about a Pokemon line not being in one Pokemon game then wait for another one that does.
People's issues with this decision don't just stop at the availability of a given Pokémon in a given game: going by GF's word, no Pokémon game going forward will feature a full dex, which means Pokémon combinations are affected as well. This has a ripple effect across all parts of the game. Something is going to be missing at all times now.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,647
I really hope this wasn't connected to the Dexit controversy. SE already dealing with some shit in Japan cuz of their mobile games recently.
 

dunkzilla

Member
Dec 13, 2018
1,059
the last game was pokemon lets go, so no. But you probably talking about sun and moon right?
But yea a dissision had to be made or else we would have rosters of a 1000 pokemon before 2025.


Sun and moon are 3ds games tbh, this is a semi openworld pokemon game.
We’ll see what the scope is like come next week.
 
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