• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,413
"Why are people having opinions? *spout opinions"

XY sucked. Easily, very easily my most disliked gen. Dislike most of the designs, dislike Kalos, hate every character walking on it. Which is impressive considering i barely remember any of them

And no matter how dumb Chairmans Rose plot is in SWSH (and it is incredibly dumb) he still manages to be a better "villain" than Lysandre
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Tastes and all but I really can't see how Elesa helping Bianca against her overprotective dad is a bad character, but the gym leaders in XY that do nothing are good.

I stopped caring about Bianca before the first encounter ended. Sure, it's great for Elesa in a character moment but I hardly remember any gym member unless you tell me their names. The only X Y gym leader that I needed to look up is Grant.

It's interesting since my strongest memories from XY are of the game frequently taking control away and throwing you into interminable cutscenes with all those bad rival characters. BW had a more substantial story than previous games, but it also seemed like it got out of your way more often and for longer stretches than XY.

I never found them invading, even when I've replayed them. Black and White stopped for psudo-Peta philosphy and "I have good intentions in mind"

For me, when I say "postgame," I mean routes/dungeons to explore and trainers to battle. Platinum, BW, and BW2 all do a good job supplying that. The game doesn't really feel truly complete to me until I've beaten a bunch of high level trainers and rematched the E4. Not having that in XY just takes the wind out of the sails for me. It feels incomplete. As I said earlier, a Z could have potentially fixed almost all of my misgivings with the games, and I'm disappointed we never got it.

I guess that never bothered me. I find most post-games tacked on already.
 

doodlebob

Member
Mar 11, 2018
1,401
It also felt like they were trying to establish Diantha as the new Cynthia for whatever reason, but that didn't last.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,689
I genuinely can't. They're absolutely forgettable. They don't do shit.

I remember the girl with roller skates though since she had a Lucario.

XY being where they started to drastically improve the anime helped a lot. Maybe it made XY feel better just by being connected to that, and I guess that's sort of the intent of cross-media productions.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
I'm a known Platinum stan, but I feel like when comparing a 200 Pokedex, it does a much better job spreading out the love. It's so easy to have a really baller, full team by the time you get to like, Crasher Wave. The biggest issue is locking all the Ice types away near Snowpoint, but Pokemon games always have problems keeping the Ice types until late.
Eh, I think that's just you. Hoenn gives you Taillow, Shroomish, Makuhita, Aron, Abra, Whismur, Wingull, Seedot/Lotad, Geodude, Tentacool, and Zubat by the second Gym, all of which can be reasonably taken to endgame, so there's room to make decent teams even with earlier mons.

What I really don't get about ORAS is why it locked New Mauville until the endgame, which restricts midgame Electric-types a lot.
 

Jester37

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,523
Ok, I guess I really am the only one who likes X and Y. It's seems everyone here has this hate for this Gen for somehow ruining Gen V for them. I still do this day don't get the utter love for Gen V. I managed to get through each gen once. I try playing them again but end up stopping before the third gym before skipping to X. It's driving me crazy how hated these games are. How they are always labeled the worse, the beginning of the end, the great decline, when Gen V's story which is so overhyped bored me and keeps me from finishing either 1 or 2.
I'll say that though I still prefer my time with Gen V, X and Y were still incredibly good to me. Kalos was such a large and fun region to explore and I had a lot of good memories not just through the map, but also playing with friends. It certainly had its flaws that I wish were addressed, especially before just moving on to ORAS then the next gen, but even so I still hand a good time

Also game had PSS which was the best thing ever haha
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
I bet no one remembers this, but Korrina doesn't even use Lucario in the gym. Her ace in that fight is Hawlucha, you fight the Mega Lucario later, even though that's the Pokémon associated with her in all Pokémon media.

XY being where they started to drastically improve the anime helped a lot. Maybe it made XY feel better just by being connected to that, and I guess that's sort of the intent of cross-media productions.
I always say this, but the actual Kalos experience is the XY/Z anime. It's where you can actually care about the region and its characters. And I don't even love the shounen angle that much, but it's much better than the game in giving personality to it.

It also felt like they were trying to establish Diantha as the new Cynthia for whatever reason, but that didn't last.
I have this personal theory that they made a whole story and someone told them to drop it and make the plot as minimalistic as possible because of BW criticism. That's the only explanation to dropped plot lines like Sycamore and Diantha being long time friends with Lysandre.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
Viola, Grant, Korrina, Ramos, Clemont, Valerie, Olimpia, Wulfric.

The only two that actually do stuff are Korrina and Wulfric.
wait what did Wulfric do again?
I bet no one remembers this, but Korrina doesn't even use Lucario in the gym. Her ace in that fight is Hawlucha, you fight the Mega Lucario later, even though that's the Pokémon associated with her in all Pokémon media.
I remembered that because her Lucario fights use her special GL remix that's better than the standard track
 

ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
Ok, I guess I really am the only one who likes X and Y. It's seems everyone here has this hate for this Gen for somehow ruining Gen V for them. I still do this day don't get the utter love for Gen V. I managed to get through each gen once. I try playing them again but end up stopping before the third gym before skipping to X. It's driving me crazy how hated these games are. How they are always labeled the worse, the beginning of the end, the great decline, when Gen V's story which is so overhyped bored me and keeps me from finishing either 1 or 2.
This is usually how each Pokemon cycle goes
0x04cr2g4gk21.png


Of course, as the newer games come out and the generation who grew up playing the older generations start getting older and more active on the internet, they start praising the generation they grew up playing. We're currently in the spot where Gen 5 is now the indisputably best generation (it was HG/SS a few years ago, and D/P/Pt before that, and Hoenn before that) and Gen 7 is the generation getting criticized. The cycle will continue and I fully expect Gen 6 nostalgia to come around in 3-4 years time. However, I think Gen 8 and Sword/Shield are the first mainline games where the entire fandom is not hyped and excited for it, so maybe things will be different going forward
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
wait what did Wulfric do again?
Not much, but he actually does something almost no gym leaders does in XY: he shows up outside the gym. lol When you first get in Snowbelle he's out in the Mewtwo forrest taking care of Pokémon. Just a small scene, but enough to give him some characterization.

Of course, as the newer games come out and the generation who grew up playing the older generations start getting older and more active on the internet, they start praising the generation they grew up playing. We're currently in the spot where Gen 5 is now the indisputably best generation (it was HG/SS a few years ago, and D/P/Pt before that, and Hoenn before that) and Gen 7 is the generation getting criticized. The cycle will continue and I fully expect Gen 6 nostalgia to come around in 3-4 years time. However, I think Gen 8 and Sword/Shield are the first mainline games where the entire fandom is not hyped and excited for it, so maybe things will be different going forward
This isn't a thing (as most "gaming cycles" aren't). It's just different people have different opinions. Gen 5 has a "hardcore" fanbase for years and Gen 6's reputation only gets worse with time with the people who don't like it. I'm not part of any cycle, I won't suddenly start thinking "you know what XY is great".
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,169
Eh, I think that's just you. Hoenn gives you Taillow, Shroomish, Makuhita, Aron, Abra, Whismur, Wingull, Seedot/Lotad, Geodude, Tentacool, and Zubat by the second Gym, all of which can be reasonably taken to endgame, so there's room to make decent teams even with earlier mons.

I'm perhaps colored by my last replay of Platinum where I had half of my team (Torterra, Golduck and Crobat) caught before Roark. Still, it's no slouch, tons of people will have Luxray and Staraptor on their teams, then there's Heracross, Budew, Shellos, Drifblim, Gastly, and some other guys. But it just depends what you prioritize on your team.

What I really don't get about ORAS is why it locked New Mauville until the endgame, which restricts midgame Electric-types a lot.

You can catch Voltorb and Magnemite in route 110 in ORAS, so they're actually more accessible.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,413
We're currently in the spot where Gen 5 is now the indisputably best generation (it was HG/SS a few years ago, and D/P/Pt before that, and Hoenn before that) and Gen 7 is the generation getting criticized.

Not only gen V is being praised for quite a while, i dont recall anyone ever praisng D/P and platinum while praised as a good game rarely warrants gen IV comments as THE best gen. if anything ive seen way more sinnoh love recently antecipating the eventual remakes than ever before including when gen IV was fresh
 

MikeBreezy92

Member
Oct 28, 2019
574
Hangs out with abandoned/abused Pokemon in a safe haven. Hes like N but not annoying.

N annoying? I feel like I can see it, but the context of why and his characterization in BW2 (really all of the character development) really made me like him more than most of the antagonists in the series.

Gen 4 is still the best Gen to me due to me liking all of the mainline games released and giving my favorite games the best remake in the series.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
you know what's not memorable? All of those second towns you get to after your hometown but before the first Gym. It worked in Kanto because you eventually made a loop (well you were supposed to go through Seafoam, everyone just Flew) and came back to Viridian, but then they kept it as a thing for pacing or whatever in every gen afterwards. Who even remembers anything about those towns, let alone their names
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,169
I can tell you the gym leaders and E4 of every game but I will probably spell the names of the Elite Four of Kalos wrong.

I can't tell you the Trial Captains in SM for the life of me but that's because they're just less memorable in general.

This is usually how each Pokemon cycle goes
0x04cr2g4gk21.png


Of course, as the newer games come out and the generation who grew up playing the older generations start getting older and more active on the internet, they start praising the generation they grew up playing. We're currently in the spot where Gen 5 is now the indisputably best generation (it was HG/SS a few years ago, and D/P/Pt before that, and Hoenn before that) and Gen 7 is the generation getting criticized. The cycle will continue and I fully expect Gen 6 nostalgia to come around in 3-4 years time. However, I think Gen 8 and Sword/Shield are the first mainline games where the entire fandom is not hyped and excited for it, so maybe things will be different going forward

You really can't simplify a fanbase of games that regularly sell 15 million with a little chart like this.
 

doodlebob

Member
Mar 11, 2018
1,401
you know what's not memorable? All of those second towns you get to after your hometown but before the first Gym. It worked in Kanto because you eventually made a loop (well you were supposed to go through Seafoam, everyone just Flew) and came back to Viridian, but then they kept it as a thing for pacing or whatever in every gen afterwards. Who even remembers anything about those towns, let alone their names
I love Accumula Town. It's one of my favourite towns in the entire series.

The music is just pleasant, and you can go to the pianist and drummer to add to the music. Right beside their house you see a view overlooking Route 2, and an item that you can collect. It's still one of the best uses of 3D in the series imo. Tbh, Gen 5 uses 3D and different camera angles better than any game after it.

Sandgem is really memorable to me since I really like Rowan and Dawn.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
I can tell you the gym leaders and E4 of every game but I will probably spell the names of the Elite Four of Kalos wrong.

I can't tell you the Trial Captains in SM for the life of me but that's because they're just less memorable in general.
Siebold, Drasna, Malva and Wilkstrom.

The trial captains are harder but I don't consider them gym leaders and trials sucked anyway. Just keep the Gym -> E4 -> Champion structure forever, please.
 

KernelC

alt account
Banned
Aug 28, 2019
3,561
I can't tell you the Trial Captains in SM for the life of me but that's because they're just less memorable in general.
same, although they had memorable designs. I can pinpoint them perfectly but I would never remember their names. Hell, I beat USUM this summer and the only thing I remember was the Necrozma boss fight and Team Rocket
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,413
you know what's not memorable? All of those second towns you get to after your hometown but before the first Gym. It worked in Kanto because you eventually made a loop (well you were supposed to go through Seafoam, everyone just Flew) and came back to Viridian, but then they kept it as a thing for pacing or whatever in every gen afterwards. Who even remembers anything about those towns, let alone their names

mystic water is in cherrygrove and petalburg in hoenn has a lot of stuff happening in it

technically the big ass city with the tall buildings is the second in alola too and i remember it just not the weird hawaian name (hau'oli? something like that)
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I envy you in regards to the XY rivals. They were the worst this series ever had. Combined with Team Flare, XY's plot and character elements were largely really bad.

I actually like the fireworks scene in the cheatu and the silly non-ghost story. Intro is annoying but I got over it. My favorite moments in XY are the two Ryhorn routes, in particular the snow one and the entrance to the Elite Four. Both uses the static camera to good effect in creating the idea that you're actually traveling a region, especially if you use a repel in the Ryhorn scenes. Walking up to the League with that music playing was extremely effective.
 

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,766
This has been a fascinating debacle to follow as someone who last played in B/W and was hoping to finally come back for Sword/Shield.

My approach to the series is this: I'm probably only going to play one Pokémon game a generation, if that, so I want to make it count. (The once-a-generation pacing of most Nintendo IPs sits very well with me.) Most of the problems with Sw/Sh don't affect me directly. "Dexit" is objectively a failure to deliver, but I've been out for so long that it's not worthwhile for me to transfer anything, much less pay for Bank. The lack of a big graphical/technical jump from the 3DS isn't something I would notice, as again, I haven't played since B/W; all the 3D models are new to me. The disparagement of the story as being as bad as Fire Emblem Fates—well, it tells you how little I weigh that sort of thing when I adored Fire Emblem Fates, and anyone who takes a swing at that game clearly doesn't share my priorities.

So you would think that I'm still enticed by the game despite all the problems that unambiguously look like bad news for longtime fans. The art style looks great, the British-inspired setting is extremely appealing, and I don't mind at all that it looks like a handheld game in HD, so to speak, when the HD UI is clean and crisp. The ironic thing about all the scrutiny of Sw/Sh is that I'm paying closer attention to Pokémon than I have in nearly a decade (and here I've got to add: I think the upset Pokémon die-hards have, by and large, been exceptionally civil and informative in explaining their grievances, which is why I'm finding them more credible than the unshakable optimists accusing them of toxicity).

But the more I read below the headlines, the more I see that does concern me: like all the talk about linearity, cutscene density, the removal of reusable TMs, the nebulousness surrounding Pokémon Home that has led everyone to sensibly assume it will be an exploitative Bank-like subscription scheme, the purportedly lacking postgame. (I dropped out after B/W in the first place because the postgame already felt thin compared to D/P and lost my interest quickly.)

Other things, I can't have an informed opinion about: I haven't played since Exp. Share was a held item, so I don't know how it played out in Gen 6/7 or how severe the over-levelling was; but while I don't see the sense in flattening the difficulty balance for everyone even further or removing the risk of rotating low-level Pokémon into battle, I was likely to want this toggled on anyway, since I hate grinding. I can imagine, though, just how upset I would be to have certain options or expectations stripped away in a series I actually did care about—like if Fire Emblem's difficulty design drifted ever further towards wrapping around casual accommodations like the undo button and auxiliary battle grinding. Everyone who has played a series for a long time has certain habits or favoured play styles, and while mechanical changes will wreck them from time to time, the more you accommodate, the better.

So as a potential returnee, I'm looking at it like this:



I'm in the market for my first and perhaps last Pokémon game in a long while—and it's becoming clearer to me, the closer we get to release, that Sw/Sh may not be the right game. And as someone who still has a 3DS on hand, I've been meaning to ask: if I play just one game since B/W to scratch the Pokémon itch, what should it be?

Because my impression, from reading about the state of Pokémon all week, is that I shouldn't be looking at the 3DS at all and what I should really be hunting for is an old DS cart of B2/W2. (I don't know if people recommend going same-colour or opposite-colour for those.) But given that Gen 4 and 5 were already a bit samey for me despite the total roster overhaul that came with Unova—and that this was supposedly the series at its peak—I'm not really sure what it would take to ever make me fall in love with any of these games. I was hoping that multiple generations of small, incremental refinements would add up to something truly fresh, and I'm not convinced that's happening.

I know Sw/Sh hasn't come out yet, so I'm still waiting to see if it's better than it looks for a player in my position. But we've been through this circus before. It wasn't long ago that I saw the hedging pre-launch optimism about Anthem peel off one layer after another as the reality of the release set in, or witnessed how beta players saw the problems with Battle for Azeroth coming from a mile away. I think I have to bet on the pessimists here, as they're the ones that seem to be thinking ahead about how this game might feel long-term.

If you're looking for an older pokemon game to play BW2 is an excellent choice, though any "3rd version" (read: Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, BW2, USUM) is a good choice as those games always refine the base games which often leave something to be desired. Though if increased linearity scares you off then maybe cross USUM off that list lol.

BW2 goes above and beyond however, not acting simply as a re-release but as it's own sequel story set in the same region, introducing a lot more new content and areas than any other 3rd version, a pretty satisfying difficulty balance thanks to the inclusion of challenge mode, and arguably the biggest postgame in the series. Route and gym design are also at their peak in BW2, with routes which hide things in every corner and make it fun to figure out how to get around the area, and gyms which really feel like they embody the personality of the gym leader.

If you do decide to play BW2 the best way to play is on Challenge Mode, though the issue is getting challenge mode unlocked on an actual game cart is extremely obtuse, requiring you to have a second copy of Black 2 (but not White 2) which has completed the game to transfer over a Challenge Mode Key. Because of this stupid unlocking process you'd honestly be better off just emulating so you can hack in the challenge mode key, unless you happen to own a DS action replay.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,169
Siebold, Drasna, Malva and Wilkstrom.

The trial captains are harder but I don't consider them gym leaders and trials sucked anyway. Just keep the Gym -> E4 -> Champion structure forever, please.

I always forget if Wilkstrom has an L in it. Siebold and Drasna took me a second. I definitely remember Malva, she has a cool design and Fire type specialists are so rare.

I forget the Alola E4 actually now that I think about it. I know their designs and typing but names totally over my head.
 

Metroidvania

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,768
I mean to be fair, the pokemon models being the same have shown that GF lied about "We gotta upgrade the pokemon models and thats why we cut the pokedex."

Yeeeeeeeep.

Hopefully that means the rumor regarding SwSh having a troubled dev time (the importer thing) is correct (regardring future titles 'returning' to having the full dex), or......hoo boy, if you think the 'toxicity' is bad now, if it gets 'out' that GF lied....

Eesh.
 

Charizard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,905
you know what's not memorable? All of those second towns you get to after your hometown but before the first Gym. It worked in Kanto because you eventually made a loop (well you were supposed to go through Seafoam, everyone just Flew) and came back to Viridian, but then they kept it as a thing for pacing or whatever in every gen afterwards. Who even remembers anything about those towns, let alone their names
I remember Cherrygrove because of that old man who wouldn't fuck off and leave me alone.

I do remember that the third gen one had no real reason to exist. It was just... there.

Oh but the 4th gen one had the professor's lab. 5th gen one is where you first meet N and has some musicians you can talk to to make the music better.

6th gen is after the worst route in the series and is where you meet 4 characters who you will shortly wish weren't in the game, along with getting your starter.

7th gen was where you got your starter.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
I always forget if Wilkstrom has an L in it. Siebold and Drasna took me a second. I definitely remember Malva, she has a cool design and Fire type specialists are so rare.

I forget the Alola E4 actually now that I think about it. I know their designs and typing but names totally over my head.
Alola is Acerola, Kahili, Olivia and Hala in SM. I think they changed it in USUM, but didn't play it.

I honestly think almost all Pokémon characters are memorable enough in design to make me at least remember their names. Only gen I struggle is 4 because it's the one I played the least. Even the E4 is hard, even if I know how they look like: Old woman, green hair boy, Snob guy and Ronald McDonald.
 

sorakirosaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
278
I love Accumula Town. It's one of my favourite towns in the entire series.

The music is just pleasant, and you can go to the pianist and drummer to add to the music. Right beside their house you see a view overlooking Route 2, and an item that you can collect. It's still one of the best uses of 3D in the series imo. Tbh, Gen 5 uses 3D and different camera angles better than any game after it.

Sandgem is really memorable to me since I really like Rowan and Dawn.
i can only name some of them because i liked them as characters in the anime /Mallow/ lana/sophcles/kiwae/acerola but those are the only ones i can remember lol
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,169
Alola is Acerola, Kahili, Olivia and Hala in SM. I think they changed it in USUM, but didn't play it.

I honestly think almost all Pokémon characters are memorable enough in design to make me at least remember their names. Only gen I struggle is 4 because it's the one I played the least. Even the E4 is hard, even if I know how they look like: Old woman, green hair boy, Snob guy and Ronald McDonald.

platinum is the best pokemon game and I rematched the E4 like 50 times in pearl so those guys are like family to me

aaron, bertha, flint, and lucian

cynthia best champion too
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,109
Yeeeeeeeep.

Hopefully that means the rumor regarding SwSh having a troubled dev time (the importer thing) is correct (regardring future titles 'returning' to having the full dex), or......hoo boy, if you think the 'toxicity' is bad now, if it gets 'out' that GF lied....

Eesh.
Honestly it's the best case scenario for that rumor to be true. While it's underhanded they sent out the game to die and lie through their teeth about the reasoning I'd rather Dexit not be a thing and for us to move on from it

If anything by the time we might find out that was a lie officially is when the next games come and have full Dex again
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,689
I forget the Alola E4 actually now that I think about it. I know their designs and typing but names totally over my head.

Golfer and ghost girl being in there was pretty random. It fit with the theme of being a newly constructed league though.

Mina is the most iconic Trial Captain because she managed to show up in another game before any of the others.


Shes a great character design that was extremely underused in the base game... like she just kind of hands you the z crystal and thats kind of it
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
Golfer and ghost girl being in there was pretty random. It fit with the theme of being a newly constructed league though.
They had to cut Kahili from the trial part. The game was supposed to have some sort of golf camp with a trial there.

I really like her design with the angry face, so I'm glad she was kept in the game. I also think it's good we have an unique E4 instead of only old characters. And Acerola was only there because Nanu hates working.

Shes a great character design that was extremely underused in the base game... like she just kind of hands you the z crystal and thats kind of it
tho I think that just giving you the crystal matches her personality. Cool character.