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Pokemon feels like the game series with the single most wasted potential of all time

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
Every new game comes out every few years and I'm disappointed yet again that such a gigantic IP is stuck with what seems like an indie dev. Not to say that on the quality end as indies are amazing, but on the scope and budget end.

Every new game feels like it was made on a tight as hell budget, with corners cut constantly in terms of features(where did following pokemon go? where did the post-game go?) and general size(we still only have tiny ass areas covered with fences) and even optimization(DS games had slowing despite being half 2D, 3DS games had MASSIVE slowdown, Switch games looking to follow suit)

This is the one of the, if not the biggest IP in history making record profits every single year, and yet its biggest contributor, the games, feel like they're given the shaft.

People accept this stagnant quality, citing "They sell great so what's the problem again". But the thing is, they absolutely could be selling a shit ton better. Pokemon is such a huge brand with so much damn marketing the shittiest of games could 'maintain' the sales it has.

I just wanna see change, people. I want Nintendo or any big developer to step in and actually make this series as huge as it deserves to be.
 
Last edited:
Oct 29, 2017
1,752
New York
(edit)

A lot of your are quoting this as if I don't get the point when I do lol. I understand that OP wants bigger changes in the main Pokemon RPG games. However, my point about change is that there was change overall in Spinoffs, which are still changes in the series, guys.

On top of that, there was change Pokemon Let's Go. And yet, even if it was small changes such as seeing Pokemon in the over world, people still complained about that. People still complained about how you catch Pokemon with the Joy-cons. Yet, everyone still complained about, too. These are minor changes, and I get that, but no matter how much change big or small, it won't satisfy people.

People wanna complain cause I listed all of the spinoffs, which were changes in the series. That's alright, you guys can keep quoting that and keep going on that list saying "I don't get what OP wants", etc, when I do lol. Someone even said something among the lines of "So we should get the usual or BOTW experience and no in between?", we did get changes in the PLG series. Yet, people were NOT satisfied with these two games and people were waiting for the upcoming mainline games.

Jesus Christ, people lol.


“I just wanna see change”
> Pokémon Colosseum
> Pokken Tournament
> Pokémon Stadium
> Pokémon Snap
> Pokémon Trozei
> Pokémon Go
>Pokémon Mystery Dungeon
Do I need to keep going?
 
Last edited:

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
8,032
I think everyone that played Red or Blue had imagined what an open world RPG version of the game would be like since they were a kid. 20 years later and we're not even close still.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,752
New York
Imagine missing the point lol
No, I know OP wants to see the big dream open world Pokémon game that everyone else wants to see, too. However, I’m just making the point that Pokémon has minorly branched off and has had changes before in the series. So, there was change before, but most of the games have been or were hit or misses with the fan base
 
Feb 15, 2019
120
Can't say I disagree, even if I still kinda like what the games themselves do. I feel like especially with the Detective Pikachu movie, getting this glimpse at how massive and diverse a Pokemon world can be, and then we have these games which are all still very limited in scope. And you're right, the series is one of the biggest selling franchises ever, and yet it's been made with such a small scale for decades.

The spin off never live up to the potential either that IDontBeatGames posted. They're fun in their own ways, but I still think we have never really seen the Breath of the Wild of Pokemon for example.

Even though the MMO days feel like they're gone, Pokemon still felt like a universe just absolutely perfect to that type of game.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,384
What even is it that the "fanbase" wants now anyway? I remember around 2004 or so with the MMO boom they wanted just an MMO version where they could run around online WoW style with other trainers and stuff.

But now it sounds like since Open World games are the flavor of the day they want the Open World single player Pokemon now. Reminds me of all the phases the zelda fanbase has gone through over the decades.
 

Gearkeeper 8A

Member
Oct 27, 2017
133
No thanks, I don't want a different dev to make pokemon, because they probably would chance the battle system for worse, the problem with gamefreak is that they drop good innovations because they want every game to be unique, what they need to do is improve these new mechanics, I don't care about mmorpg, open world design, or action rpg, pokemon is one of the few games that is still turn based, not only that the formula can be expanded and improve, a different genre is not what I want.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
It's the biggest entertainment media IP of all time by a large margin, and the 2nd biggest gaming IP.
You'd think it'd have at least one AAA game by now.
It's kinda weird.
 

steviejd1

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,967
Because giving a popular IP to a big AAA dev is always the solution (see Star wars and EA)...

Game Freak are growing the size of their dev team but to bring out a big open world game every year (a Pokemon game is needed yearly to help push consoles) like Assassin's Creed etc, you need 1000 devs. Something which isn't going to happen with Game Freak.

Gamefreak single handedly holding back all the Pokemon games. It's as if they are a few gens behind everyone else.
They've been developing Pokemon games on low-powered handhelds, I'm not sure what you expect?
 

luulubuu

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,850
Every new game comes out every few years and I'm disappointed yet again that such a gigantic IP is stuck with what seems like an indie dev. Not to say that on the quality end as indies are amazing, but on the scope end.

Every new game feels like it was made on a tight as hell budget, with corners cut constantly in terms of features(where did following pokemon go? where did the post-game go?) and general size(we still only have tiny ass areas covered with fences) and even optimization(DS games had slowing despite being half 2D, 3DS games had MASSIVE slowdown, Switch games looking to follow suit)

This is the one of the, if not the biggest IP in history making record profits every single year, and yet its biggest contributor, the games, feel like they're given the shaft.

People accept this stagnant quality, citing "They sell great so what's the problem again". But the thing is, they absolutely could be selling a shit ton better. Pokemon is such a huge brand with so much damn marketing the shittiest of games could 'maintain' the sales it has.

I just wanna see change, people. I want Nintendo or any big developer to step in and actually make this series as huge as it deserves to be.
Pokemon has every possible spin-off out there.
Sorry OP, this ain't it.
 

RyanG

Member
Nov 1, 2017
427
I still think that Nintendo missed a trick that during the MMO heyday of World of Warcraft that they didn't develop a Pokemon MMO. The entire premise of it lends itself perfectly to that kind of game. A single pokémon trainer wandering around big worlds catching pokémon alongside fellow trainers. You could battle people in the same way you could duel in WoW. Legendary or other rare/exotic pokemon could be hidden away in dungeons/raids with entire pokémon teams battling to defeat and get a chance to capture them not dissimilar to what Pokémon Go does now. You could have big cities where trading happens and trainers congregate much like the capital cities in WoW.

I legitimately think it would have sold a bajillion copies and have made Nintendo vast sums of money.
 

luulubuu

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,850
Those are all spinoff games, that's not what the OP is talking about
Spin-offs are for that though, people are nitpicky enough with the franchise as it is, can't imagine the meltdown if for example you couldn't capture wild pokemon in a main game (Colloseum) or if it was just combats (Stadium)
 

Clusterdreams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,599
Atlanta, GA
I completely agree but the part about being an “indie dev” is a bit... inappropriate.

Spin-offs are for that though, people are nitpicky enough with the franchise as it is, can't imagine the meltdown if for example you couldn't capture wild pokemon in a main game (Colloseum) or if it was just combats (Stadium)
And what the OP is suggesting isn’t to deviate from what the main games do, but to evolve them instead of stagnating.
 

coconut milk

Member
Jan 17, 2018
2,140
Because giving a popular IP to a big AAA dev is always the solution (see Star wars and EA)...

Game Freak are growing the size of their dev team but to bring out a big open world game every year (a Pokemon game is needed yearly to help push consoles) like Assassin's Creed etc, you need 1000 devs. Something which isn't going to happen with Game Freak.



They've been developing Pokemon games on low-powered handhelds, I'm not sure what you expect?
3DS pokemon games might be the most restrictive open world games of all time

and they will continue that design philosophy with sword/shield i reckon
 

Corky

Member
Dec 5, 2018
2,296
Totally. but I'm the problem as I'll lap up everything they put put out anyway. But Pokémon has basically remained the same. Shield and Sword look like a 3ds game, it's not really acceptable.
 

luulubuu

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,850
I completely agree but the part about being an “indie dev” is a bit... inappropriate.



And what the OP is suggesting isn’t to deviate from what the main games do, but to evolve them instead of stagnating.
Evolve in what form though? It's been said already why functionalities come and go, they are part of the region flavor. I would personally hate to deal with Poke Gear, the trainer rematch item, Secret Base, Pokemon Refresh, etc all in one game.
 

WillJoe

Member
Nov 14, 2018
203
UK
it really does feel wasted. the most exciting pokemon game for me since ruby/sapphire is actually Let's Go because it changed the gameplay significantly and overall it's more enjoyable. i'll pick up sword/shield to give it a try but honestly it looks like a step back which is even worse than standing still.

pokemon desperately needs an overhaul. they're sticking to the same old formula because it sells. there is no ambition or inspiration at gamefreak i think.
 

Clusterdreams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,599
Atlanta, GA
Evolve in what form though? It's been said already why functionalities come and go, they are part of the region flavor. I would personally hate to deal with Poke Gear, the trainer rematch item, Secret Base, Pokemon Refresh, etc all in one game.
I mean a lot of people were expecting a more open-world title for Pokémon’s first foray into console hardware. Instead we got what looks to be another Pokémon game with HD graphics. Hell, some great QOL changes that even people who didn’t like Let’s Go wanted to keep because they would make the main series better (seeing Pokémon in the field instead of random battles) are small things that can improve the mainline titles.

Pokémon, for a series that has been around for almost 25 years, has barely changed from its first few titles.
 

doop_

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
635
I replayed BW recently and i realized that i don't really want a big open world Pokémon game. Not that it would be bad or anything but what i truly want are some nice QOL changes, less linear routes, fewer cutscenes and for gamefreak to surprise me.
 

DrakenAstro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,199
A huge open world Pokemon game would take forever to make. Can Pokemon afford to have very long development cycles? The games aren't the only thing that carry the franchise. It has an anime, cards, movies, merchandise etc
 

poptire

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,873
I think making a giant open world Pokemon would defeat the purpose of the series. It's supposed to be light, easily accessible to all ages, and (for many years) portable, with bite-sized gameplay.
 

SilentRob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,016
“I just wanna see change”

> Pokémon Colosseum
> Pokken Tournament
> Pokémon Stadium
> Pokémon Snap
> Pokémon Trozei
> Pokémon Go
(Edit)
>Pokémon Mystery Dungeon
Do I need to keep going?

You know this isn't what the OP is talking about, even if you single out one sentence to make it look like he does., as these games are also really limited in scope.

And even if he did, showing a list of games that are mostly 15 to 20 years old - apart from Go - maybe isn't the best answer to this ;)

Imagine if all franchises worked like this. If Zelda or Mario or Metroid would never have made a notable technolocial and mechanical jump, simply because the old concept worked, too. We would have never gotten Mario 64 and everything that followed, Ocarina of Time and 3D Zeldas, Metroid Prime 1-3. All of these franchises were great beforehand, fun and there was no need to change anything up.

Yet, they used the ressources and the huge fandom they built to make something excting, something new, while also still catering to the old fans by not forgetting their 2D roots. There is absolutely 0 reason why Pokemon is the one series in the world where that wouldn't work. All of these franchises evolved, changed while also remembering their roots. Yet, Pokemon stagnates. They are still fine games. But they could be amazing, genre-defining experiences.
 
Last edited:

Malek

Member
Feb 15, 2018
548
Investing more more money when your game still sells millions while having an indie budget would be dumb
Pokemon fans know no better and they would buy whatever Nintendo throws at them
I mean have you seen how excited people are for the next pokemon shield and sword game? despite being almost exactly the same game as the last ones
 

luulubuu

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,850
I mean a lot of people were expecting a more open-world title for Pokémon’s first foray into console hardware. Instead we got what looks to be another Pokémon game with HD graphics. Hell, some great QOL changes that even people who didn’t like Let’s Go wanted to keep because they would make the main series better (seeing Pokémon in the field instead of random battles) are small things that can improve the mainline titles.

Pokémon, for a series that has been around for almost 25 years, has barely changed from its first few titles.
The pokemon in the field rather than random encounters is because the whole nature of Let's Go;

You can't combat them and you have the chain combos in order to gain more experience, so you need to see the pokemon wandering around to properly use that system, in pokemon mainline with combat being back is not mandatory.

I loved it though and I hope the pokemon box is back, but I have to say the pokemon should interact more with the ground they are on, they just felt like assets walking in circles and it felt off.
 

Glass

Member
Oct 26, 2017
262
I hope Sword and Shield is a huge step up. Since the trailer I'm the most hyped I've been on Pokemon since Red and Blue, but this is going to be a £55 game if shops are to be believed, it needs to show it.
 

Clusterdreams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,599
Atlanta, GA
The pokemon in the field rather than random encounters is because the whole nature of Let's Go;

You can't combat them and you have the chain combos in order to gain more experience, so you need to see the pokemon wandering around to properly use that system, in pokemon mainline with combat being back is not mandatory.

I loved it though and I hope the pokemon box is back, but I have to say the pokemon should interact more with the ground they are on, they just felt like assets walking in circles and it felt off.
I mean I get how it works but because it’s designed to work a certain way doesn’t necessarily mean it can’t work a different way. Simply take the chain system out because that’s something unique to go.

You can simply have Pokémon play the same way in the field as it always has (fighting the Pokémon, weakening them
to catch) but instead of just random encounters, they randomly spawn and you can see, avoid, choose which encounters to engage in.

It’s a much better system.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,041
I haven't really played them since the originals so I am sure they have changed, but yeah they do feel like a little wasted potential looking from the outside. the newer ones seem to look different though, more of a 3D look to them. Has me wanting to play them.
 

Sea lion

Member
Nov 8, 2017
483
It's my favourite series but I do agree its time for it to take a big leap.
I remember being up in arms about Lets Go, but while playing, despite all the changes, it still felt like the same game I've been playing since the 90's.

I really do love it, but it needs to evolve. Not add a few little gimmick features then remove them for the next game.
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,517
Switzerland
i agree to this whole thing, but honestly i would just be happy if they offer just less linearity, more exploring and secrets.... sun and moon was terrible for this, you were on a straight path on tiny road during the whole game!
 

Galkinator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,460
Pokemon games definitely have the worst case of budget vs success. I thought they would blow our minds with Sword & Shield but I was completely indifferent to the whole thing.
I think GF aren't willing to stray too much, if at all, from their formula. It worked great on handheld games with the minimal scope but when you make the transfer to a current gen home console all the limitations are starting to show and it doesn't work as well. They have to improve their technical issues as well, I can't see a single reason why the Switch games are not 60 fps (They're not even stable 30!) when you have much better looking titles doing it effortlessly.
 

PandaShake

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
667
I like pokemon games because of the pokemon, not so much the game anymore. I rarely finish them, get burnt out after simply choosing effective attacks after another.
 

luulubuu

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,850
I mean I get how it works but because it’s designed to work a certain way doesn’t necessarily mean it can’t work a different way. Simply take the chain system out because that’s something unique to go.

You can simply have Pokémon play the same way in the field as it always has (fighting the Pokémon, weakening them
to catch) but instead of just random encounters, they randomly spawn and you can see, avoid, choose which encounters to engage in.

It’s a much better system.
But part of the charm of new entries is discovering pokemon, isn't a bit of a turn off to just see their model on grass instead of randomly encountering it?
 

Clusterdreams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,599
Atlanta, GA
But part of the charm of new entries is discovering pokemon, isn't a bit of a turn off to just see their model on grass instead of randomly encountering it?
I don’t think so. You can be just as easily excited seeing a rare Pokémon pop organically in the environment as you can seeing it randomly pop up as an encounter. The difference being you don’t have to run away from dozens of encounters to get to that point.
 

Rob2K19

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,053
You're right. Which is why Huabumon took advantage of that wasted potential with Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth and Hackers Memory and delivered by making a mature game for a mature audience that started with the beginning of Digimon or Digimon Adventure 01. Best decision. Haven't looked back at Pocket Monsters since my needs have been satisfied.
 

Zoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
660
I agree. They should have given the 3D games to another studio long time ago and let GF keep making 2D/pixel/HGSS/BW style games.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,986
I’m constantly baffled that people consider “indie games that sell for 15 million” as an insult around here. That’s an enormous compliment, and any other game company on the planet would kill for a franchise that could do that.
 

AzureFlame

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,422
Kuwait
Game Freak can hire the best people but they just don't want that, they just want to be that small company with average programmers.

idc about big change at this point, i just want a good amount of content.