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Pokemon Gen 8 Discussion Thread of Hopes, Speculation, Expectations, Dreams, Rumors, and More

Oct 27, 2017
499
USUM was a step in the right direction, but they could keep their 'but the smartphones!' motto and add difficulty levels. Then we could have the best of both worlds.
I miss the 'greedy' Gamefreak from HGSS and BW/2.
USUM was artificial difficulty. Giving pokemon moves they dont have yet, giving ultra necrozma a beast boost plus 10 levels above you. That ultra necrozma fight was awful design.
 

Serebii

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Oct 24, 2017
3,362
USUM was artificial difficulty. Giving pokemon moves they dont have yet, giving ultra necrozma a beast boost plus 10 levels above you. That ultra necrozma fight was awful design.
I mean how else are they going to do boss Pokémon. Making it a challenge by increasing level and totem auras is the best way
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,462
Canada
Masuda has been a director, producer, and composer and more for the series for ages. He's had his hand in nearly every game. Like, he should know by now that the series isn't just a Japanese series now. Should he not be thinking about the entire world instead of what he thinks the Japanese audience wants?
 
Oct 27, 2017
499
I mean how else are they going to do boss Pokémon. Making it a challenge by increasing level and totem auras is the best way
There's gotta be different ways. Level change yes, but totem auras on one of the strongest pokemon ever with base attacks over 100 power is nuts :p
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,973
I don't mind the boost, but i don't like designing a boss with a "gotcha" mentality intended to beat the player solely on surprise once and then be trivialized in any posterior run

Feels like what drayano does to his hacks like giving Falkner solarbeam so you can't use rock pokemon against him.
 
Oct 27, 2017
499
Masuda has been a director, producer, and composer and more for the series for ages. He's had his hand in nearly every game. Like, he should know by now that the series isn't just a Japanese series now. Should he not be thinking about the entire world instead of what he thinks the Japanese audience wants?
Even then. I believe pokemon still does great in Japan. Could be wrong.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,067
I have a love/hate relation with Ultra Necrozma, I like the design of it and the music for the battle, but difficulty wise it's just maybe a little too high, It's the hardest part in the game that makes the Elite 4 and Champion afterwards look a little trivial. And strategy wise there wasn't really any, It just had 4 strong moves with good coverage, have a pokemon that isn't weak to Psychic, Steel, Rock and Dragon moves, probably a dark type. And win before you lose the battle of attrition. Often times it just comes down to It One Shotting your whole team, or you one shotting it with a Z-Move.

ORAS with Primal Groudon and Kyogre I feel were much better boss fights than it, it helps you have the option to catch them or fight them compared to Ultra Necrozma "must fight" design, but they have good coverage but not amazing (Water/Ice/Normal or Fire/Ground) and one recovery move (Aqua Ring or Rest) to make the capturing challenge a bit more interesting. They even have lower capture rates compared to their R/S/E counterparts (3 vs 5).

Still have the Net Ball issue with Kyogre but that's about it. Legend battles are more fun when you have to try and reduce their health a low level, but not too low to faint it. Then you need to try and catch it whilst trying to survive it's barrage of attacks (Which gives a new player a good idea of what that legendary can do).

I do however like the totems 2vs1 where they get to show off some fun synergy's between moves. The issue of just Z-Moving the totems to win still exists though which makes them less impactful. The 2vs1 I feel are probably the right way to go about making more challenging boss fights in the future.

Maybe the next game just needs to make Doubles the standard, not only does it solve a lot of the blatent game-breaking stuff like Megas and Z-Moves by having that deal with only one of the problems. It encourages players to raise more than just one (and not rely on their overleveled starter) and let's them show off fun synergies with pokemon compositions as well. Even works out for a Co-Op move that isn't a total cakewalk.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,188
When you look at how the Japanese gaming industry has shifted in 10 years, I can absolutely see why he may think that. Mobile gaming has severely impacted the core gaming industry. Practically every game series saw a huge loss in sales, average sales were down and so forth.

We in the west haven't seen such an impact, but in Japan things were looking dire for a very long time. We still sometimes get weeks where games in the Top 10 only sold 5,000 units or less, however the dedicated gaming industry does seem to be getting a bit or a resurgence in the past couple of years.

This is why we in the west think it's poor business logic, but when you look at it from the Japan stand point, I can see why he may think it.

Do note: I'm not saying he's right. I'm saying I 100% get why he thinks it
it's still poor business logic even from a JP perspective because he's not making a mobile game. this mentality is only going to push people away from the console games because he's not even trying to be competitive. unless Let's Go was originally going to be a mobile game but Nintendo says now, he's hobbling his own shit.

I'm kinda thinking that Masuda really does want to move pokemon to mobile but Nintendo puts a halt to that. then again, I question how well a traditional pokemon on mobile would even work
 

Serebii

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Oct 24, 2017
3,362
it's still poor business logic even from a JP perspective because he's not making a mobile game. this mentality is only going to push people away from the console games because he's not even trying to be competitive. unless Let's Go was originally going to be a mobile game but Nintendo says now, he's hobbling his own shit.

I'm kinda thinking that Masuda really does want to move pokemon to mobile but Nintendo puts a halt to that. then again, I question how well a traditional pokemon on mobile would even work
No, he's trying to make a non-mobile game and attract it to players of mobile games. He's not trying to make a mobile game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
499
So in what ways could 8th gen make catching pokemon worth it. LGPE did good with it, but catching mons didn't exactly feel rewarding to me, we need better rewards at certain milestones. Make completing the pokedex a huge focal point, and give an equal value reward.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,421
So in what ways could 8th gen make catching pokemon worth it. LGPE did good with it, but catching mons didn't exactly feel rewarding to me, we need better rewards at certain milestones. Make completing the pokedex a huge focal point, and give an equal value reward.
Considering how many barriers there are with even doing that doesnt sound like a good idea
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,973
So in what ways could 8th gen make catching pokemon worth it. LGPE did good with it, but catching mons didn't exactly feel rewarding to me, we need better rewards at certain milestones. Make completing the pokedex a huge focal point, and give an equal value reward.
Tying the main way of grinding to capture actually made me want to capture less stuff. It's incredibly easy to overlevel specially because exp share is now universal and imposssible to turn off.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,144
In my opinion they need to step up and make the upcoming far more substantial and better thought out in terms of mechanics and actually make content that compliments each other and is fun. And for god sake make good postgame. Other monster RPGs like Yokai Watch and Monster Hunter Stories have been kicking it’s ass in all these things that I’m suggesting. It’s fucking embarrassing.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,973
And for god sake make good postgame. Other monster RPGs like Yokai Watch and Monster Hunter Stories have been kicking it’s ass in all these things that I’m suggesting. It’s fucking embarrassing.
gen II through V had amazing post game content. its not like they dont know how to do it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,283
I do however like the totems 2vs1 where they get to show off some fun synergy's between moves. The issue of just Z-Moving the totems to win still exists though which makes them less impactful. The 2vs1 I feel are probably the right way to go about making more challenging boss fights in the future.
I think the issue is that they've been restricting these bosses to just normal Pokémon. Even with the totem boost, even with a partner, they still just have regular Pokémon base stats, so in the latter half of the game once your team is established you can just one or two shot every totem boss. They were much better in the early game when your options were weaker. One or two Pokémon simply will never be a challenge to a team of six unless they use artificial difficulty boosters like high levels. There's just no room for complex strategy.

I think an interesting solution would be non-Pokémon bosses. Like maybe fight some machine that has the equivalent of 5000 base HP so that you actually need your whole team to beat it. They could even go crazy with it and make these triple battles (or hell, full team battles) against the bosses.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
14,188
I think an interesting solution would be non-Pokémon bosses. Like maybe fight some machine that has the equivalent of 5000 base HP so that you actually need your whole team to beat it. They could even go crazy with it and make these triple battles (or hell, full team battles) against the bosses.
they actually did this before



I still believe Mother Beast Lusamine was supposed to do this as well

 
Oct 28, 2017
9,973
t
I still believe Mother Beast Lusamine was supposed to do this as well

But then they barely made it any different from her regular fight minutes ago and couldnt be arsed to even give her a six pokemon team (if anything you could consider they "nerfed" it despite the single boost because they add pain split to bewear and misdreavus and the idiotic AI uses it all the time)

There is zero reason bosses/evil team leaders/e4 shouldnt have six pokemon. The player most likely already had access to a full team before the first freaking totem fight
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,829
they actually did this before



I still believe Mother Beast Lusamine was supposed to do this as well

The hall of scrapped Gamefreak ideas is long and vast

Gen 7 has postgame though, it's just not the kind of postgame that fans want. Battle tree is very good though.
Battle Tree does not count as a "post game". The regional Battle Tower is basically a minimum nowadays
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,188
But then they barely made it any different from her regular fight minutes ago and couldnt be arsed to even give her a six pokemon team (if anything you could consider they "nerfed" it despite the single boost because they add pain split to bewear and misdreavus and the idiotic AI uses it all the time)

There is zero reason bosses/evil team leaders/e4 shouldnt have six pokemon. The player most likely already had access to a full team before the first freaking totem fight
I was 100% expecting her to jump in as teh last "pokemon". why else would they make her change form. surely they wouldn't waste a really cool 3D model that's all animated, right?

right?

 
Oct 25, 2017
2,496
I've always been a supporting of having Monster Hunter-style raids where trainers can team up against mega-bosses and other co-op challenges like puzzles and whatnot.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,973
I was 100% expecting her to jump in as teh last "pokemon". why else would they make her change form. surely they wouldn't waste a really cool 3D model that's all animated, right?

right?

was expecting either her or a group of nihilegos. when i put down bewear (which wasnt hard because the idiot used pain split and gave health to my previously injured pokemon while falling in hp range to be oneshot) i expected the "real fight" to begin but nope, here's a bunch of xp its done!
 
Nov 4, 2017
1,022
Some of the stuff yall are talking about sound pretty freaking cool. It really seems like the series has "evolved" from the past generations. I'm playing Let's Go Eeve and I'm somewhat bored out of my kind, I can't play more than maybe 15 mins before I put it down. Mind you it's a recreation of the very first game which came out eons ago.

But hearing all of you speak about how the game has changed with post content stuff, a real story and cutscene, fighting bosses, I can't wait for the next true installment

It would be insanely cool to have a boss so strong the game let's you use all 6 of your pokemon in one massive battle, I'm not sure Gamefreaks would ever do that but the idea of it sounds awesome.

Have the later games become more strategy heavy? I feel like with the first game you could just brute force your way most of the time beyond the differences in types. Like I see things like Accuracy X, Speed X etc, does all that stuff really matter? It would be cool to have a version of this game really push strategy elements beyond the simple turn based tactics.
 
Nov 10, 2018
92
I wonder if there will be a major shift in design philosophy now that they're on the switch. The idea of them fearing smartphones when they're developing on the same console that's home to games like Odyssey, BOTW, XBC2, etc is a bit silly to me. People will put time into games that they enjoy playing. That's all there is to it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,421
Honestly i wish cross gens werent so trade heavy. Just feels like Pokemon are locked out of your grasp.

Doesnt gelp that if I can't access them, i just dont want to use them anymore.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
3,362
Typically (at least before Let's Go), the idea was that Game Freak wanted consistency between all games so something that couldn't be possible in past games shouldn't be possible in future games (aside from type changes etc.). This meant that Eviolite changed the idea of cross gen evolutions as the Pokémon wouldn't have been able to use it in previous games. This is why crossgen evolutions had evolution methods that wouldn't possible in prior games

Now though, I don't think it'd be as strictly adhered to, but we'll see. I don't see any more coming, but *shrug*
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,802
There are more recent interviews out there if you want to call out Game Freak for some shit. In particular, I hate how Masuda likes to blame smartphones for shit, as if he gave up and let's them steamroll him
He’s not wrong about that though, 15 years ago if you wanted to play a game on the go you needed a game console. Now you only need a phone and most kids are playing their first games on a touchscreen smart device not a game console. Phones are the way most people play games these days.

This is a reality that all developers are facing, especially those who make software aimed at children.
 
Oct 27, 2017
550
Why are they likely done forever? Just curious, I loved them too and was hoping to see more some day
Here's a theory I've seen Joe put out before:
1. Cross-gen evolutions consistently use new methods of evolution in order to maintain continuity. These evolutions have always existed in-universe; we just didn't have the means to achieve them.
2. Eviolite only works on Pokemon that aren't fully evolved.

Thanks to Eviolite, you can't add a new evolution to a previously fully evolved Pokemon without breaking the "this Pokemon always existed" facade.

Edit: Speak of the devil!
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,188
He’s not wrong about that though, 15 years ago if you wanted to play a game on the go you needed a game console. Now you only need a phone and most kids are playing their first games on a touchscreen smart device not a game console. Phones are the way most people play games these days.

This is a reality that all developers are facing, especially those who make software aimed at children.
so you stop trying to make your games competitive?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,421
Typically (at least before Let's Go), the idea was that Game Freak wanted consistency between all games so something that couldn't be possible in past games shouldn't be possible in future games (aside from type changes etc.). This meant that Eviolite changed the idea of cross gen evolutions as the Pokémon wouldn't have been able to use it in previous games. This is why crossgen evolutions had evolution methods that wouldn't possible in prior games

Now though, I don't think it'd be as strictly adhered to, but we'll see. I don't see any more coming, but *shrug*
Now this is something I wish we moved away from. Especially since we are doing multiverse shit now
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,973
Honestly i wish cross gens werent so trade heavy. Just feels like Pokemon are locked out of your grasp.

Doesnt gelp that if I can't access them, i just dont want to use them anymore.
I'd rather have trade evos (specially with how easy it is to trade these days) than dumb "you need to be in this place to evolve and oh this place is like in the last freaking are of the game so your cool bug pokemon will remain an useless mid-evo box for 4/5 of it"

But really i just want traditional evolutions for everything. Stop creating new methods to upset people, GF. Levels are all we need.

Also the argument of consistency went out of the window when they created alternate timelines to justify fairy type and mega evos. Nothing stops them from adding crossgen evos again but their own willingness to do them
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,421
I'd rather have trade evos (specially with how easy it is to trade these days) than dumb "you need to be in this place to evolve and oh this place is like in the last freaking are of the game so your cool bug pokemon will remain an useless mid-evo box for 4/5 of it"

But really i just want traditional evolutions for everything. Stop creating new methods to upset people, GF. Levels are all we need.

Also the argument of consistency went out of the window when they created alternate timelines to justify fairy type and mega evos. Nothing stops them from adding crossgen evos again but their own willingness to do them
Trade evos disadvantage is it can also become impossible to do if you don't have the means to evolve them. Without that, you lose out entirely on pokemon from Gen 1 through 5. Therefore trade evos should be the faster method with an Alternative path to acheive it on your own. It shouldnt be the way

Location based evos are dumb. but ultimately still doable on your own.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,973
They should just make the trade evos normal evos and the "trade with items" evos normal evos when you gain a level holding the item (just like there are evos when you gain a level with a certain move)

Trade evos are a relic from gameboy and link cable times.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,067
Here's a theory I've seen Joe put out before:
1. Cross-gen evolutions consistently use new methods of evolution in order to maintain continuity. These evolutions have always existed in-universe; we just didn't have the means to achieve them.
2. Eviolite only works on Pokemon that aren't fully evolved.

Thanks to Eviolite, you can't add a new evolution to a previously fully evolved Pokemon without breaking the "this Pokemon always existed" facade.

Edit: Speak of the devil!
Even with Eviolite, you could still do Alternate Evolutions and not break anything in regards to Eviolite, like with Froslass and Gallade. Or bring in more Megas, even if it feels like they could work as regular evolutions (Mawile).

Alternatively, they could just change the buff Eviolite gets if it becomes a problem. 50% increase to first stage pokemon, 30% increase for second stage ones is one I've seen suggested.

I don't think they've nerfed an item yet, but they've nerfed abilities and moves in the past like Galewings and Thunder Wave.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,187
Why are they likely done forever? Just curious, I loved them too and was hoping to see more some day
Like others have said eviolite. We could still get split evolutions like new Eevee evolutions or stuff like Bellossom and Politoad but the days of single or two stage Pokemon getting the improvement they need through evolution is gone.

Thank goodness we got the likes of Magnezone, Momoswine, Yanmega, and so on before eviolite was introduced.