Yeah, DQMJ DS has overworld monsters, free camera and quick daylight shifts with no problems.
I think the problem lies with half of their fanbase. They're fine with whatever they throw and keep using old excuses.
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Pokemon Gen 8 Discussion Thread of Hopes, Speculation, Expectations, Dreams, Rumors, and More
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Yeah, DQMJ DS has overworld monsters, free camera and quick daylight shifts with no problems.
I think the problem lies with half of their fanbase. They're fine with whatever they throw and keep using old excuses.
Does DQMJ DS have 800+ monsters?
Then they could not have done it to the quality they wanted on 3DS. Obviously the framework was there, and there must have been a reason not to
sadly yup. doesnt help they dont have much compation in their space.
no, and it shouldnt matter b/c there isnt more than a few dozen it should have to hold in memory at a time. plus I am prity sure its loading from cart every time a battle happens.
The reason, in my opinion, is always the same. The small screen of the 3DS. Small screen with no second stick to easily control the camera means the level design has to be tight to avoid making you feel lost, and if the areas are tight it's harder to fit Pokémon in the overworld in a satisfying way.
It's not impossible, but it's entirely plausible they felt it wasn't ideal to do it in the 3DS games.
Sun and Moon had as much content as Black and White, and more content than Ruby and Sapphire and X and Y. Diamond and Pearl had a bit more.
All other games are enhanced versions or remakes.
Sun and Moon had new post game routes and areas and an extra story quest with new characters showing up and full battles, and the usual battle facility. It's absolutely in line with BW and DP, and certainly more than XY and RS
I mean what kind of post game do people want, since a decent amount of people have complained about team building stuff?
Having 800+ is not a problem, not all the Pokemon models are going to be stored on the RAM at any given time, RAM can be refreshed to adjust the Pokemon needed for a particular route.
I'm inclined to agree with Aleh , that 3DS's power wasn't the problem, more so with physical barriers of the 3DS, smaller screen, and lower resolution.
Battle Frontier
Dungeons with legendaries at the end, none of the wormhole BS of ORAS and Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon
A national dex (I can't believe I have to include this but look at Sun/Moon)
New towns
Either scrap the terrible post game stories like the Looker stuff of X/Y, Delta Episode of ORAS and the UBs of Sun/Moon or make it an incredibly minor thing like Gen 4 & 5.
I have liked the idea of coop dongens with rare/better versions of pokemon at the end. it might be a better/alternete path to perfect ivs, than breeding luck.
Why would they scrap things that many people like in favor of things that you, specifically, like? That's pretty selfish.
How many people actually like that stuff. THe hate for it seems pretty unanimous to me. Hell, the hate for Delta Episode in particular is so bad that they brutalized Zinnia in the manga.
It'd be weird for something called regional variant to be limited to exactly one region, so I'm hopeful they'll keep making more. The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive so they'd have no reason not to
What people don't like about Zinnia is that she almost doomed the world and felt very irritating in the way she talked down on everyone despite the fact that, well, she was causing tons of problems. If anything people wanted these stories to be even longer. The flying in space on Rayquaza and then finding Deoxys was espeically praised by pretty much everyone.
I like the post game stories in x/y oras, but didnt like the sun/moon one.
People praise the Deoxys bit cause it's the only thing worth a damn in that entire storyline. The rest of it is just flying back and forth in a big fetch quest while watching Zinnia be terrible. It's weird to say people like the storyline as a whole while simultaneously saying they hated the vast majority of it.
Really? I found the Sun and Moon one to be the best, even over the Rainbow Rocket episode. Seeing all the backstories of Anabel and Looker and Nanu, learning more about the various Ultra Beasts and learning about the shady things done by the International Police was amazing. Heck they literally talked about getting people killed.
admitily the main reason I liked oras one is becouse it clearly sets x/y and oras in a alternete version of the pokemon world v the rest of the games before them.
I mean I'm personally fine with the post games we've been getting in the first pair of each generation as when I finish the story i just get straight to breeding, shiny hunting, online, trading, etc. Pokemon's post game as always been very community driven to me and I'd been fine with gen 8 being like that
The problem isn't that they exist, the problem is that the writing and scenario design are piss poor. They devolve into meaninglessly having you jump around the map from beat to beat, don't necessarily involve cool new areas or good revisits of existing areas, and the characters or situations you're in aren't well fleshed out. Delta Episode sounds cool on paper, but Zinnia just so insufferable
I feel like "postgame" wouldn't be as big of a concern if the main story was slightly less railroady. A huge part of the appeal of postgame is that you can finally go anywhere you want and catch anything... but oftentimes there's little to nothing to do when you get there anyways. Some Pokemon games are better at handling this than others (as a net rule 3rd versions(/sequels in the case of B2W2) tend to have pretty decent postgames in that regard. But I'd argue a way easier solution would just be to make the main game more interesting and attention grabbing. Like seriously thinking back to White, a game I genuinely loved, I never went back to a lot of the early/midgame towns in the post game, hell couldn't tell you some of their names, because despite all the attention done to worldbuilding and the time I spent in them, at the end of the day I really just went there, did whatever obligatory sideplot got me to the gym leader, did the gym, and left. There was little to interact with beyond that. If having densely packed areas results in fewer towns and a less expansive region imo I'd be all for it. For what it's worth Sun and Moon comes really close to this approach with its islands, but again its very restrictive nature for much of the game really kills any potential that idea has.
seems like in that case pokemon should move more towards a sandbox aproach, and make the 8 gyms+ elite 4 a optional thing. pokemons sturure and themes are at ods. its a old school jrpg, but in theme its supposed to be about finding/ raising pokemon.
I feel the same way, just that I would just like to see a few extra routes again like the DS entries and some more involved dungeons for the postgame legendaries. But as long as they keep doing the online tournament support and events and stuff I have plenty of reason to keep playing.
Well the thing is that, and this is the part that very much applies to Zelda circa Ocarina of Time, Pokemon Red and Blue were designed to simulate the experience of a free and open adventure but with the graphical limitations of the Game Boy. Like Zelda, in order to get around these limitations Game Freak designed a relatively tightly knit gameplay experience that funneled the player from point A to B to C to D (though honestly even in those days there was more choice and freedom in how players went about things and the order they could do things in but that's neither here nor there). It wasn't really an "adventure", but it was treated like an adventure, hence it felt like one to players. And honestly, it still does, at least up til somewhere around Gen V.
The principal problem isn't that Pokemon is linear, it's that Gamefreak no longer knows how to make a linear adventure, well, fun. There's way more story than there was before even though Gamefreak really can't execute for shit. The battle system's gotten more and more advanced (though the balance has... well you can't win 'em all I suppose), but battles have gotten way less challenging in the main storyline. It's like Gamefreak WANTS to make these elaborate tightly wound JRPGs, but they're tied to a concept as wide and open ended as Pokemon, and also they don't know how to make elaborate tightly would JRPGs.
To a certain degree then, why not abandon trying to accomplish the illusion of adventure, when other studios mastered that formula while Gamefreak was still in its diapers, and create the open ended adventure people wanted out of Pokemon in the first place?
I beat Red's team of ~lv 80s with a team of ~lv 40s in Silver, good luck doing that in more recent games. And that's ignoring how SM and USUM especially are the hardest games in the series. You'll hardly find anyone claiming gen 1, 2 or 3 to be harder than gen 4, 5 and 7.
There were definitely improvements there. But getting 2 "new" versions 1 year later just felt really gross. The Ultra games should have been what the originals were. And even then, they only would have made a bad game a little better.
God, Monster Hunter Stories was so damn good and it bums me out that it released at a point where nobody cared about the 3DS anymore. It deserved to do way better than it did and games like it should be acting as serious competition for Pokemon and lighting a fire under GameFreak's butt.when I brought up Poni Plains, I mentioned that as a worse case scenario. Poni Plains was a small and sparse field. if it had some kind of height variation or roaming pokemon, it'd be much better.
but my optimistic, but realistic expectation is, and forgive me for sounding like a broken record here, something like Dragon Quest or Monster Hunter Stories*
MHS had like 5 towns but the fields were pretty damn open with some dungeons. Dragon Quest 8 had 16 towns and the world design was linear but with a good deal of exploration
Large Map using the ingame assets, so you can see the main path and how much you can explore
https://www.woodus.com/den/gallery/...est_8_Overworld_Map_25_Percent_Resolution.png
these are well within the ability of Game Freak, I think. and we all know I don't have too high of an opinion of them.
*christ, I bring up these two games a lot, but I do it for a reason. a lot of the problems I have with Pokemon have been handily solved with these two games.
It depends on how it's done. Let's Go's method of just having them pop out of thin air is terrible, but just having them in the overworld doesn't necessarily ruin the surprise. Other RPGs with monsters in the overworld have provided me plenty of moments of "Woah, what is THAT!?" when I see giant or freaky-looking monsters walking around or sleeping.
Well said (re: the second paragraph). Much as I enjoyed the idea behind Let's Go showing Pokemon on the overworld, I started Black 2 immediately after beating it and I see where the Dragon Reborn (hi, Rand) is coming from up there. But if they do it the way you suggest it could be rad.
Would be nice to have the Pokemon native to the new region not be harder to find than the ones from previous gens again.
That should really not be a problem with overworld encounters. Thank god I might add, XY was a nightmare on that front
Some of the things you had to do to find new Alolan Pokemon were ridiculous, it didn't help that there were so few of them that weren't legendaries/Ultra Beasts
It would be so cool if you could see Pokémon underwater and to start the encounter you had to fish. It could work like Animal Crossing, mechanically speaking.
It died with Hoenn. It's absurd we had Alola without diving.
Ugh, this is why I loved Hoenn. Surfacing and realizing I was in Sootopolis was magical.
Yeah, my hope is something like MHS and the first Xenoblade.when I brought up Poni Plains, I mentioned that as a worse case scenario. Poni Plains was a small and sparse field. if it had some kind of height variation or roaming pokemon, it'd be much better.
but my optimistic, but realistic expectation is, and forgive me for sounding like a broken record here, something like Dragon Quest or Monster Hunter Stories*
MHS had like 5 towns but the fields were pretty damn open with some dungeons. Dragon Quest 8 had 16 towns and the world design was linear but with a good deal of exploration
Large Map using the ingame assets, so you can see the main path and how much you can explore
https://www.woodus.com/den/gallery/...est_8_Overworld_Map_25_Percent_Resolution.png
these are well within the ability of Game Freak, I think. and we all know I don't have too high of an opinion of them.
*christ, I bring up these two games a lot, but I do it for a reason. a lot of the problems I have with Pokemon have been handily solved with these two games.
They'll show everything they can and hide some Pokémon/details, just like they did with S/M.
I was begging for this in gen 7 and it didn't happen so I'm really hoping for it in gen 8: more interesting NPC dialogue
I get the games are designed for kids so stuff like "Hi friend did u know if you hit a fire type pokemon with a water type attack, it hurts more?" is important to include but I really wish they'd include more interesting tidbits and worldbuilding. It's an RPG, I want to feel rewarded for going out of my way to talk to people.
and by worldbuilding I don't mean the npcs just constantly telling you how wonderful the region is. I think sinnoh and johto handled this pretty well as there was so much lore and mythology to the region that you could learn by talking to characters and observing your surroundings. I want that again
I get the games are designed for kids so stuff like "Hi friend did u know if you hit a fire type pokemon with a water type attack, it hurts more?" is important to include but I really wish they'd include more interesting tidbits and worldbuilding. It's an RPG, I want to feel rewarded for going out of my way to talk to people.
and by worldbuilding I don't mean the npcs just constantly telling you how wonderful the region is. I think sinnoh and johto handled this pretty well as there was so much lore and mythology to the region that you could learn by talking to characters and observing your surroundings. I want that again
I do wounder about the kid part though. I wounder if we will ever see a pokemon game that is a little bit more meture, not a M rated pokemon game, but one that expects a older playerbase.
This could be the one. They already have baby first RPG in this Gen with Let's Go.
They tried that with Black/White. And of course spinoffs go into that territory with the likes of Coliseum and Mystery Dungeon. Hell for all it's faults, I'd say the Sun/Moon story is pretty mature for a Pokemon game. Some of the themes combined with the imagery in it is quite intense for a child.
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