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Should there be more difficulty options in Pokémon?

  • Yes

    Votes: 253 93.4%
  • No

    Votes: 18 6.6%

  • Total voters
    271

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,530
Challenge Mode was barely even more of a challenge. It was at the start of the game, but once your Pokémon adapted, it was the same walk in the park as before.

It doesn't matter how good or difficult the AI is if you're going to steamroll them anyway due to being slightly overlevelled. The only way to get round it is to physically cap your Pokémon so they can't go above say Level 20 before Gym 1, but people would complain even more at that.

People with teams of 5-6 would not be overleveled if universal EXP share was able to be turned off. You could even scale the levels of gym leaders. Considering that, better trainer AI with more, stronger Pokemon would absolutely matter quite a bit. As it stands, the AI is so bad that basic utility moves are completely unnecessary—let alone strategy or team synergy.

It really wouldn't be half as difficult to design a proper hard mode as you let on. Countless other RPGs do it just fine.
 

King Kingo

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
7,656
Challenge Mode was barely even more of a challenge. It was at the start of the game, but once your Pokémon adapted, it was the same walk in the park as before.

It doesn't matter how good or difficult the AI is if you're going to steamroll them anyway due to being slightly overlevelled. The only way to get round it is to physically cap your Pokémon so they can't go above say Level 20 before Gym 1, but people would complain even more at that.

I'd love a Pokemon level cap system for harder difficulties.
 

Parenegade

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,589
User Warned: Platform Warring
This is a generalization but I feel comfortable making it.

After the past year I'm confident saying Nintendo fans are just letting Nintendo get away with bloody murder and will basically accept anything they do. I'm a lot more confident in saying that now since I have a Switch too.

The way Nintendo fans have rallied around The Pokemon Company and Sakurai after this year tell me Nintendo will never really be held accountable.
 

CyberMonkey

Member
Jun 20, 2019
234
I wonder if a more developed custom system would work in Pokemon. That way people can toggle all kinds of settings to fit their own difficulties, and some options could allow for challenge runs. They already have this a bit with the Set / Switch stuff, so expanding on that more could be interesting.

Edit, with some examples:

NPC stats: Super Trained (EVs and IVs) / Trained (EVs) / Base
NPC held items: On / Off / Major fights only
NPC uses items: On / Off / Major fights only
NPC team size: Regular / Expanded
Level scaling: On / Off / Major fights only
Gym party limit: On / Off
Gym strategy: One type / Variety
EXP Share: On / Off
No revives in battle: On / Off
Ideally, this would be the way to go.
 

MickZan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,404
Problem is Super Effective almost one shots everything. Pokemon need a much larger health pool. I'd say like 5-10 times as much.
 

DaToonie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,136
I wonder if a more developed custom system would work in Pokemon. That way people can toggle all kinds of settings to fit their own difficulties, and some options could allow for challenge runs. They already have this a bit with the Set / Switch stuff, so expanding on that more could be interesting.

Edit, with some examples:

NPC stats: Super Trained (EVs and IVs) / Trained (EVs) / Base
NPC held items: On / Off / Major fights only
NPC uses items: On / Off / Major fights only
NPC team size: Regular / Expanded
Level scaling: On / Off / Major fights only
Gym party limit: On / Off
Gym strategy: One type / Variety
EXP Share: On / Off
No revives in battle: On / Off

Oh yeah, I'd say this could be one of the most ideal ways of doing it.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,441
I agree but it's not that easy to do. I mean, just increasing the level of the enemies wouldn't be enough. It would make the game grind, not hard.
 

marcbret87

Member
Apr 20, 2018
1,367
I think part of the problem as well is that once you kill the NPC's first Pokemon they tell you the one that is coming next. Hence, you can simply switch to a Pokemon that has type advantage and pretty much own the whole battle.

I don't know, there are many other developers who don't have difficulty modes in their games.

Sure, but in general I think it's always better to have one. The games currently are too easy. It's not like before (eg. prior to Gen VI or so) they were Dark Souls-like, but at least some fights were pretty challenging.
 

Kingsora

Member
May 19, 2018
1,057
They should just remove the revive options during battles that would already help quite a lot when it comes to battles. Now you can just relay on one strong Pokémon and if he dies no problem, you revive him while playing with another Mon
 

Slamtastic

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,485
There are tons of ways Pokemon could be improved by being more challenging that could each be individually toggleable options:

  • Pokemon of too high a level disobey even if you caught them
  • Disable all healing items (non held) in battle for both sides
  • Limited catches per area
  • Pokemon leaves you on faint because you are not worthy
  • Resetting trainers on center usage
  • Banked EXP that is cashed out only at centers and lost in faint
  • Classic EXP share where it's a held item, and you have to explore or complete side objectives to get them
  • No PC box anywhere
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,095
I would incorporate something like Hades Heat System into the game for optional challenge.

Here's a picture to demonstrate what it is for those that haven't played Hades (Don't mind Northernlion in the top right corner).

b3yJuhl.png


These are individual modifiers that you can toggle to make things trickier, in Hades it does stuff like have enemies have more HP, you start with less HP, give mid bosses extra attacks, put on a time limit on how long you have to beat each area and so on and so forth.

You can have a pokemon equivalent of stuff like Opponent trainer's pokemon are 5 levels higher, give them more healing items to use in battle, each pokemon has at least a perfect IV per level, maybe have an extra pokemon, gain less EXP or Money on victory. Stuff like that. Turn on whatever difficulties are to your liking. You can even include the "Battle Style Set" into the system like this already.

Now in Hades you get the reward of Diamond, Ambrosia and Titans Blood for defeating the bosses at set levels. For Pokemon, I can see an equivalent of being to give players BP for battles. That way when they get to the BP Stores in the post-game (Or mid-game with a select assortment of items that wouldn't break the game at that specific time) challenging themselves earlier gives them rewards on their post-game progression and team building. If not BP, an equivalent currency could work (But we have like 3 of them now, don't want to have too many currencies.)

You can also do the inverse and have a Celeste like assist mode in the process to make things easier too for those that want it. Options aren't a bad thing to have.
 

Cyberninja776

Member
Oct 28, 2017
542
I think part of the problem as well is that once you kill the NPC's first Pokemon they tell you the one that is coming next. Hence, you can simply switch to a Pokemon that has type advantage and pretty much own the whole battle.


There is a option in the menu for set battle style where that doesn't occur but it really doesn't change much when you are prepared.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,095
There is a option in the menu for set battle style where that doesn't occur but it really doesn't change much when you are prepared.

This is mainly an issue with the gyms insistance on keeping to types. To use a simple example with the rival.

Player has a Grass Type out, defeats the rivals Water Type.
Rival about to bring out Fire Type.
With Switch, trainer swaps out to their Water Type. With Set, trainer swaps out to their water types and will have to let the opponent have a turn (If they use a Setup move, things gonna get a bit dicey).

Now for a Gym Leader.

Player has a Grass Type out, defeats the Gym Leaders Water Type.
Gym Leaders about to bring out their next Water Type.
With Switch, trainer keeps their grass type in. With Set, trainer also keeps their grass type in.

We've seen all the type gym leaders multiple times now, can we get different themes for them now?
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,912
But what happens when Little Timmy accidentally picks Hard Mode, can't beat the first gym because he doesn't understand type advantages, and then goes back to playing a heavily skill based game like Fortnite on his smart phone like all the other kids?

Wait a second...
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,808
I'm all for a hard mode as an option. Just let us pick when starting the game this time, please.

This is mainly an issue with the gyms insistance on keeping to types. To use a simple example with the rival.

Player has a Grass Type out, defeats the rivals Water Type.
Rival about to bring out Fire Type.
With Switch, trainer swaps out to their Water Type. With Set, trainer swaps out to their water types and will have to let the opponent have a turn (If they use a Setup move, things gonna get a bit dicey).

Now for a Gym Leader.

Player has a Grass Type out, defeats the Gym Leaders Water Type.
Gym Leaders about to bring out their next Water Type.
With Switch, trainer keeps their grass type in. With Set, trainer also keeps their grass type in.

We've seen all the type gym leaders multiple times now, can we get different themes for them now?
Even with mono-type leaders it's possible to offer a challenge. Most players will not run an entire team of the type that has an advantage against the gym-leader; we usually rely on one or two Pokémon that will wipe out most of them, if not all. All gym leaders need to have is counters to their weaknesses. Like a water-type gym having a Pokémon with Ground or Fire-type attacks, which is often possible with Gyarados' access to Fire-type attacks or Drednaw's Ground-type moves. Or just have some sort of strategy, really.

But, honestly, the best way going forward, to me, is having dual-type gyms. That would be really cool.
 
Last edited:

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
Yeah it was boringly easy, no sense of accomplishment whatsoever when winning a battle.

If this is my first Pokemon game I'd just assume the series is always boring and unfun, which is not true at all.
 

Cyberninja776

Member
Oct 28, 2017
542
This is mainly an issue with the gyms insistance on keeping to types. To use a simple example with the rival.

Player has a Grass Type out, defeats the rivals Water Type.
Rival about to bring out Fire Type.
With Switch, trainer swaps out to their Water Type. With Set, trainer swaps out to their water types and will have to let the opponent have a turn (If they use a Setup move, things gonna get a bit dicey).

Now for a Gym Leader.

Player has a Grass Type out, defeats the Gym Leaders Water Type.
Gym Leaders about to bring out their next Water Type.
With Switch, trainer keeps their grass type in. With Set, trainer also keeps their grass type in.

We've seen all the type gym leaders multiple times now, can we get different themes for them now?

I don't disagree but even with Gym leaders I feel the best way to handle this would be to have things other than mono types but that would of depend on what is available in game
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
What if Pokemon battles were dynamic instead of the same static fight that will always be the same fight no matter what.
 

Moist_Owlet

Banned
Dec 26, 2017
4,148
This just sounds crazy to me. Why even have combat in the game if it's that easy... And it's turn-based too, so combat in Pokemon just boils down to selecting stuff in a menu until you win?
The game basically plays itself. Almost no need to engage with any of its mechanics when the best option every single time is to pick your strongest dude and wail on the opponent. Fuck with xp share everyone is strong all the time.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,095
What if Pokemon battles were dynamic instead of the same static fight that will always be the same fight no matter what.

The rivals should employ this system, having something like the Shadow of Mordor Nemesis System for Rivals where their team changes and adapts based on your own and the battles you have with them. Keep the starter, that stays constant, but the AI might adapt the pokemons moveset depending on what your ace is.
 

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
This just sounds crazy to me. Why even have combat in the game if it's that easy... And it's turn-based too, so combat in Pokemon just boils down to selecting stuff in a menu until you win?

It's an insult to turn-based combat system as a whole.

Persona 5 is unironically a much better Pokemon game, f*ck Sword & Shield it's painfully boring and dull.
 

Dymaxion

Member
Sep 19, 2018
1,138
I think it would be cool if they handled difficulty options like Dragon Quest XI. Not just bumping the levels, but perhaps reducing exp gain, closing the PokeMart, adding a random weird status effect, etc. and letting the player choose which challenges to switch on or off.
 

udivision

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,033
Maybe gym battles (the only real gatekeeping for progression) having your monsters and the gym leaders capped down to 20, 30 40 50, etc like in the Battle tower would actually be better. Overleveling could get you an advantage in your movepool/evolution, but with the levels evened out it would nullify a lot of the raw stat advantages. There isn't any difficulty in getting a strong monster, and maybe there shouldn't be. But when it comes to the actual boss battles, there's still some stuff they could do.
 

lightning16

Member
May 17, 2019
1,763
Would really be nice to have a hard mode. The games certainly have the mechanics to support actual challenging gameplay, too, as evidenced by the plethora of challenging fan games out there. Thoughtful team compositions alone would go a very long way. And nobody's even asking for ridiculous Pokemon Reborn types of challenging. Would just be nice to have something that makes you think a bit during the main game. A mode that removes the ability to swap out after you KO a Pokemon, removes the ability to use items in battle (only held items), and gives opposing Pokemon decent held items as the game progresses in key fights would already be a healthy start towards hard mode.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
I don't really know the best way to do this, in all honesty.
I think the general story should be a bit me different, rather than doing a separate hard mode, but I don't think it should be too challenging. Like, there are probably people out there who want the first gym to have a team of 6 level 30 choice scarfed Pokémon for example.

Increasing team size should be the big thing: there's no reason to not be fighting teams of 6 by gym 5 or so, even if it's just relegated to gym leaders and the final fights. I think the novelty of the wild area ruined the difficulty of Shield for me though. It comes super early in the game, and there's a load of Pokémon you can catch there, far more than you normally can by gym 1, and I ended up like 10 levels above everything else before I entered Motorstoke.
Pokemon Black2 and White 2 basically made things harder by giving the gym leaders more Pokemon and held items, raising Pokemon levels across the board and making the AI smarter. You also gain more experience.

Basically, Pokemon should have a more extensive and thought out version of that. I'd like them to have certain pokemon (pokemon of gym leaders, rivals, evil team leaders, etc.) held items. And I don't just mean throwing a sitrus berry on their ace but actually giving them some more competitive items like you'll see in the battle frontiers/towers of the series. Plus some Pokemon have abilities that are more tough to deal with than others. Make it so that those pokemon have their most threatening ability. And yeah, teams of 6 like you said.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,556
Bring it back and actually do it right this time, last time the process to unlock it was one of the most asinine cumbersome unnecessarily complicated design decisions that I have seen in a game.

Many people were locked out of it because they didn't have a friend to trade with, and even if they did, if you pick up the game today you most probably won't.

Challenge Mode was barely even more of a challenge. It was at the start of the game, but once your Pokémon adapted, it was the same walk in the park as before.

It doesn't matter how good or difficult the AI is if you're going to steamroll them anyway due to being slightly overlevelled. The only way to get round it is to physically cap your Pokémon so they can't go above say Level 20 before Gym 1, but people would complain even more at that.

Non issue, just balance the enemy levels and have a toggle item that curbs the amount of EXP you get (like DQ11 Draconian), you would never be overleveled.
 
Last edited:

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
I hope to see the same arguments as when it is said that From Software should not have an easy mode. Creator's vision and all that.
The primary difference here is that Pokemon's difficulty isn't tied to the design of the game. The ease of the game makes it almost impossible to engage with the game beyond type match-ups because spending any amount of time buffing or raising your Pokemon is a waste of time in trainer battles.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,523
Spain
The primary difference here is that Pokemon's difficulty isn't tied to the design of the game. The ease of the game makes it almost impossible to engage with the game beyond type match-ups because spending any amount of time buffing or raising your Pokemon is a waste of time in trainer battles.
The difficulty of every game is tied to their desing. Or none game at all.
 

Dever

Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,347
It's an insult to turn-based combat system as a whole.

Persona 5 is unironically a much better Pokemon game, f*ck Sword & Shield it's painfully boring and dull.

Yeah I would think that the whole point of a turn-based combat system is that you have to carefully consider which move you'll use, resource management etc. If you don't, the whole combat amounts to basically just waiting lol. If you want to make an easy game that's fun for kids, it should be real-time.

To me it seems Pokemon is kinda trapped by nostalgia and convention. One issue I can be sympathetic toward the devs in is how they're forced to include hundreds of Pokemon in every game. How about a game that only has maybe a couple dozen monsters to collect, but they're all fantastically balanced and meticulously animated? I think that would make for a much better game, but the fanbase would riot...
 

Aadiboy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,651
I played Emerald recently and really enjoyed the level of difficulty it had. You could tell they really went back to the drawing board with the gym leaders and fine-tuned their strategies. Even if you had a type advantage against their Pokemon, they could still eke out a win through some crazy stat buffing strategy or move combo that would give them the edge in battle. If new Pokemon games had a hard mode similar to Emerald, maybe a little harder, I think that would be perfect.
 

TsuWave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,992
Agreed. Also, it's time to move away from nature/types gym themes. Gym leaders and Trainers need to have varied Pokémon rosters.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
The difficulty of every game is tied to their desing. Or none game at all.
I don't think the game's entirety--outside of competitive play--is designed around the fact that you're ignoring 99% of the mechanics. You can adjust the difficulty without fundamentally changing what Pokemon is about.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,523
Spain
I don't think the game's entirety--outside of competitive play--is designed around the fact that you're ignoring 99% of the mechanics. You can adjust the difficulty without fundamentally changing what Pokemon is about.
Exactly like any other game, I agree. But I don't know why, when the idea is to lower the difficulty, people start talking about things like "the artist's vision".
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
Yeah I gave up Shield after about 5 hours due to the lack of challenge. It felt like the game catered a bit too much to the younger audience in that regard.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
Exactly like any other game, I agree.
I think there are games that actively encourage you to engage with the systems present in order to proceed, which is often what difficulty is tied to. Yes, a lot of bad difficulty options exist that basically just adjust the damage/HP values. But I think there are games that do fundamentally change if you allow someone to progress without touching most of the mechanics.

Note: I'm not speaking about holding difficulty sacrosanct, before you go there. Just that games on the better end of the spectrum ask you to actually engage with what they give you. Which is often tied to the baseline difficulty of a game.

Pokemon straight up allows you to win most fights so long as you find a super effective move.
 

H2intensity

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
921
I like the way it is. I saw my 6 years old nephew enjoying sns and lets go. Saw my son (12yrs) enjoying it too. Myself also enjoying it the way it is cos i hate grinding too much. Playing pokemon for me is about its journey and i don't need my journey to be stressful and time consuming. And i think gamefreak also realized that and they need to bring the experience to younger generation so Pokemon can be always relevant.
Raid and online battle is already great option for those who want more challenge.
 

Deleted member 31092

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
10,783
The games desperately needs some kind of single player content targeted towards its more old/hardcore fanbase. We literally only have the Batte Tower.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
I like the way it is. I saw my 6 years old nephew enjoying sns and lets go. Saw my son (12yrs) enjoying it too. Myself also enjoying it the way it is cos i hate grinding too much. Playing pokemon for me is about its journey and i don't need my journey to be stressful and time consuming. And i think gamefreak also realized that and they need to bring the experience to younger generation so Pokemon can be always relevant.
Raid and online battle is already great option for those who want more challenge.
So add a difficulty option? I don't see why offering a hard mode option would detract from your and your son's ability to enjoy the game. The ask isn't to make the game more difficult by default, but rather add an optional button that says: "Make this harder, please."