Pokemon Really Should Bring Back Hard Mode - TWINFINITE

[Dever]

Exactly like any other game, I agree. But I don't know why, when the idea is to lower the difficulty, people start talking about things like "the artist's vision".

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Well, the intended design of a game like Sekiro is that you die a lot, and then feel very satisfied once you finally beat the bosses. I think that vision would be very difficult to accomplish if you could just play the game on Easy and breeze through everything. So there's just one difficulty, it will be too hard for some, but it's balanced so most players will eventually beat the game and have the intended experience.

I doubt the intended design of Pokemon is to bore people with complete lack of challenge...

 

[Anth0ny]

Thank god for the Pokemon rom hack community

 

[AzureFlame]

Of course they should but they don't give a damn unfortunately.

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

Though will say after trying my share of Pokemon fangames and romhacks, making every trainer have a full Smogon-tier team and using items will just turn into an annoying slog. I don't need every Lass or Youngster to be a challenge.

 

[Doc Kelso]

While we're at it, can we either get rid of the 10000 different types of Pokeballs? It was wild getting a new type every so often and not really knowing what it's use is. I'll just keep chuckin' Ultra Balls. Or make the other types matter more.

 

[Glio]

Well, the intended design of a game like Sekiro is that you die a lot, and then feel very satisfied once you finally beat the bosses. I think that vision would be very difficult to accomplish if you could just play the game on Easy and breeze through everything. So there's just one difficulty, it will be too hard for some, but it's balanced so most players will eventually beat the game and have the intended experience.

I doubt the intended design of Pokemon is to bore people with complete lack of challenge...

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Maybe some people are happy with easy games like Pokémon and find games like Sekiro impossible. If there are games "too easy" there are games "too difficult" and in all cases it can be solved with difficulty modes. If not, we have a double standard.

 

[Deleted member 49535]

You're fooling yourselves if you think you're not going to keep getting trainers with a single pokemon (the same level as the wild pokemon in the area, btw), vs your team of 6. Because Gamefreak.

 

[Dogui]

Never played Black/White 2 so don't know what hard mode really changes. But how harder it is aside enemy mons being on higher lvs?

People claims exp share in the recent entries makes the game easier but how the hell wasting more time to grind makes a game hard?

Pokémon will never have the chance to be actually hard while the whole concept of levels continues to exist.

While the mainline games are meant to be acessible for children and it's silly to want otherwise, maybe hardcore fans could wish for a spin off dedicated to them, where the game is balanced to be challenging and not reliant on level systems?

 

[lightning16]

That is another thing on the docket. Poor team builds goes against difficulty as well.

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You can make some pretty cool single type teams that handle their typical weaknesses in a variety of ways. The idea of single type gyms isn't necessarily as bad as Game Freak makes it look, though it would be easier to make more challenging gyms without that limitation I agree.

 

[Eddman]

At this point, Game Freak should consider a spinoff series for old gamers who like pokemon but want a more difficult challenge, hardcore / old school rpg mechanics, etc. I'm sure it would sell and they won't need to alienate their main fanbase.

 

[ThisIsBlitz21]

No, because the game being easy is the DEVELOPER'S ARTISTIC VISION, so you have NO RIGHT to criticize it.

Just like Souls games, which you also have no right to criticize because of From's ARTISTIC VISION.

Now bugger off.

 

[Dever]

Maybe some people are happy with easy games like Pokémon and find games like Sekiro impossible.

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But you can see how Sekiro being impossible for some is kind of an inevitable consequence of the design right? You can't make a game where the literal core idea is the satisfaction you get from beating something very difficult without making it too hard for some.

There's nothing about the idea of collecting monsters and making them fight that necessitates the game being very easy, with no way to make it harder for those who want it.

 

[Carassius Auratus]

Dreams: Challenge mode added as an OPTION.

Reality: Set mode removed in Gen 9 because OPTIONS are somehow bad.

 

[Mekanos]

I replayed White 2 with Challenge Mode on for the first time recently and it definitely enhanced my experience. Some Gym Leaders were tougher than I expected. Sad most people probably didn't play it because of the inane key system.

 

[Glio]

But you can see how Sekiro being impossible for some is kind of an inevitable consequence of the design right? You can't make a game where the literal core idea is the satisfaction you get from beating something very difficult without making it too hard for some.

There's nothing about the idea of collecting monsters and making them fight that necessitates the game being very easy, with no way to make it harder for those who want it.

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I understand that in Sekiro they want the game to be a challenge for the player. But what would be a challenge for me is completely different from what would be a challenge for my sister. If there were an easy mode, my sister would have the same feelings that I have in normal mode.

Exactly the same with the hard mode in Pokémon.

However, in the gamer community there is a double standard that glorifies difficult games.

 

[Nepenthe]

Pokemon battling against the AI has always been easy. If they wanted to add a harder mode, I wouldn't be adversed to it, but that's not where my issue with it lies. My main issue with SwSh- and subsequently with Pokemon in general- is that it has lost the ruggedness of an adventure. It's too positive, optimistic, and toothless.

In general, it should be a little rough to get through the untamed wilderness separating entire cities as a 10 year old with only a few scrappy lvl 5 mons separating said child from the jaws and elemental powers of wild animals. I mean hell, I'm an adult and I won't even go camping in a park.

I'm also tired of rivals being your friends. Like, you're not a rival at this point. You're a practice buddy. You're not actively trying to hinder my progress. I want a rival that hates my guts again. I also want to be involved in the goings-on of the story again; get involved in completely superfluous side quests and things. Every major event in SwSh is cut off with "You need to focus on your gym challenge!" Fuck you, I'm 10 levels overleveled and have swept everyone in my way (Raihan bout to get the work tonight, even as much as I love him); let me help.

Pokemon doesn't need to be hard. It needs to have some damn stakes again.

 

[SirNinja]

I had no idea B2/W2 had difficulty settings, wow. Shame they can only be obtained by either beating the game or getting it via IR from someone who has.

 

[Mullet2000]

They really need to do something. I can barely get through Shield because of how easy it is. Every trainer battle feels like a box to check rather than an actual fight.

 

[Becks']

Y'all I think Leon is browsing this thread rn.

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I wooped his ass with Dynamax Snorlax.

 

[Slamtastic]

Y'all I think Leon is browsing this thread rn.

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Leon also highlights a problem with Pokemon that makes it too easy: Story opponents not using held items.

SwSh literally just introduced an item to counter entry hazards. Does Leon use it? Of course not. The famous unbeatable Charizard of legend gets half health removed for free because I know stealth rocks exists.

 

[mazpratim]

When fans are making better games than the actual company, you know there's a problem

 

[Lunchbox]

The game is so bad, semi finals.. you only have five Pokemon Marnie? Really?! Dumbass, & then having to battle that guy for the key like three times to pad the game dude has two Pokemon each time! God, I can't believe people convince themselves it's good.

my level 56 Rhyperior solo'd the whole champion cup.

 

[Okada]

I'm currently limiting myself to carrying 5 Pokemon to try and increase the difficulty a bit. I might even drop down to 4.

 

[Dever]

I understand that in Sekiro they want the game to be a challenge for the player. But what would be a challenge for me is completely different from what would be a challenge for my sister. If there were an easy mode, my sister would have the same feelings that I have in normal mode.

Exactly the same with the hard mode in Pokémon.

However, in the gamer community there is a double standard that glorifies difficult games.

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The variance in player skill is too vast, there's no way for From to get their intended design across while taking everyone into account. Sekiro is intended to be an exciting challenge for their core audience, ie people who've played and enjoyed the Souls games.

Pokemon on the other hand apparently presents zero challenge for the people who've been playing those games for years. Also, player skill isn't set in stone. When you play Sekiro, you'll slowly get better at it, and the game becomes very fluid and satisfying when you notice you're able to easily beat enemies who were giving you trouble before. And that's because of an increase in your actual skill and knowledge of the game, not just random stat numbers going up. When you get better at Pokemon, it just gets even more boring lol

 

[Glio]

The variance in player skill is too vast, there's no way for From to get their intended design across while taking everyone into account. Sekiro is intended to be an exciting challenge for their core audience, ie people who've played and enjoyed the Souls games.

Pokemon on the other hand apparently presents zero challenge for the people who've been playing those games for years. Also, player skill isn't set in stone. When you play Sekiro, you'll slowly get better at it, and the game becomes very fluid and satisfying when you notice you're able to easily beat enemies who were giving you trouble before. And that's because of an increase in your actual skill and knowledge of the game, not just random stat numbers going up. When you get better at Pokemon, it just gets even more boring lol

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That is, you are saying that games should only focus on their core audience and not on new players. That's just gatekeeping with extra steps.

 

[Horohorohoro]

I'm not sure why an argument about giving Pokemon a Hard Mode (something it's already had before) devolved into an argument about whether Souls games need an easy mode. Not the same game, it just seems like deflecting.

Note: Not a Souls fan, I've never even played a Souls game, so I'm not biased or anything at all.

 

[beansontoast]

I really hope 'hard mode' to people doesn't mean higher levels & more grinding. I get that grinding is just part of JRPGs for some people, but I've never thought of it as fun or challenging; levelling up your pokemon doesn't require skill or strategy, just a willingness to waste time. It was definitely annoying that there wasn't the option to switch off exp share, but I actually enjoyed using it. The combination of exp share with the access to the pc box outside of pokemon centre allowed a more diverse team of about 9/10 pokes that could be rotated.

What I'd like to see is an ai that isn't dumber than the average rock. Granted, I have absolutely no experience of game development & the technical requirements that would be involved, but surely it can't be hard to improve them somewhat; they literally almost never even switch out when they are at an obvious type disadvantage. Maybe the 'good trainers' (e.g. gym leaders) could be programmed to have some sort of knowledge & prediction. If they inherently knew the learnset for all pokemon in the dex/region (which would be plausible in game, given that they are supposed to be pokemon experts) that could allow them to switch out to a favourable match up. Likewise understanding stat distributions, such as which pokemon tend to be on which side of physical/special split etc, might also allow for a degree of prediction. And it almost goes without saying, but either other trainers should have full parties, or you should be limited to matching up the number of pokemon they have (esp with gym battles). All of this would mean winning becomes more about actual understanding of the game & strategy, than brute forcing your way through and to me that would be a lot more satisfying.

 

[TreeMePls]

Lets continue to ignore the fact that Game Freak continuously comments about wanting to cater to as wide as an audience as possible(ie new players and "veterans" of the series and going as far as saying SwSh were not going to be entry games) while continuously skews their development philosophy towards new players just so we can keep drawing false equivalences to From even though they had no problem saying they want to cater to a specific market/niche

People arent trying to change GF vision. Theyre trying to get them to follow up on it in the first place

 

[Mekanos]

I really hope 'hard mode' to people doesn't mean higher levels & more grinding. I get that grinding is just part of JRPGs for some people, but I've never thought of it as fun or challenging; levelling up your pokemon doesn't require skill or strategy, just a willingness to waste time. It was definitely annoying that there wasn't the option to switch off exp share, but I actually enjoyed using it. The combination of exp share with the access to the pc box outside of pokemon centre allowed a more diverse team of about 9/10 pokes that could be rotated.

What I'd like to see is an ai that isn't dumber than the average rock. Granted, I have absolutely no experience of game development & the technical requirements that would be involved, but surely it can't be hard to improve them somewhat; they literally almost never even switch out when they are at an obvious type disadvantage. Maybe the 'good trainers' (e.g. gym leaders) could be programmed to have some sort of knowledge & prediction. If they inherently knew the learnset for all pokemon in the dex/region (which would be plausible in game, given that they are supposed to be pokemon experts) that could allow them to switch out to a favourable match up. Likewise understanding stat distributions, such as which pokemon tend to be on which side of physical/special split etc, might also allow for a degree of prediction. And it almost goes without saying, but either other trainers should have full parties, or you should be limited to matching up the number of pokemon they have (esp with gym battles). All of this would mean winning becomes more about actual understanding of the game & strategy, than brute forcing your way through and to me that would be a lot more satisfying.

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What Black/White 2's Challenge Mode did is at least a good start. Gym Leaders and Elite Four had different lineups with more Pokemon, held items, and better movesets. I definitely think AI could be improved though. A Hard Mode where all AI is at least as good as the Ace Trainers would be a start.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I dunno, difficulty changes like this would hurt the original vision of the creators and would take away from the games intended form.
/s

 

[effin]

I would love for a difficulty setting in Pokémon. I couldn't get more than 3 hours into Sword due to how mind numbingly easy the game is. I had to purposefully do things to make things harder and it still was incredibly hard to lose.

But, I've also accepted that if this never happens I'm no longer the target audience for the games, and that's okay too. It certainly feels like a lost opportunity though.

 

[MP!]

the biggest challenge in pokemon is not falling asleep while playing.





In all reality it will take a lot more than a hard mode to fix the lack of engagement in this franchise.... but it's a start I guess.

 

[Sou Da]

It was wild getting a new type every so often and not really knowing what it's use is.

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he literally tells you what they're for.

 

[Myradeer]

There's reason why Miltank meme is a thing in Pokemon. Entire series as a whole is so easy that battle with any possibility of team wipe instantly become memorable.

 

[Rirse]

I wouldn't mind it. The gym leader in the OP in both fights with her was the only person besides the Champion who was actually a legate threat in the entire game. She was the only wipe I had the entire game too, as her final pokemon just kicked my ass the first time. But yeah other then those two, no one was ever a challenge. Surprised at how few people had a full team too, think only Leon had a full six.

 

[GuEiMiRrIRoW]

Which pokemon game has hard mode?

 

[abellwillring]

If you want to make it harder on yourself, it's easy to do so. One difficulty level is perfect.

 

[Doc Kelso]

If you want to make it harder on yourself, it's easy to do so. One difficulty level is perfect.

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Why is it bad to include an option to make it more difficult? As it is, you have to remove even more interaction with the game's systems if you want to make the game more difficult. Because that's what I want to do if I want to have to think about my strategy; Take away even more options.

he literally tells you what they're for.

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I suppose I misspoke. I know what they're for. I don't know why they exist other than to just have more Pokeballs. The benefit of using them doesn't seem to change much.

 

[Sou Da]

Why is it bad to include an option to make it more difficult? As it is, you have to remove even more interaction with the game's systems if you want to make the game more difficult. Because that's what I want to do if I want to have to think about my strategy; Take away even more options.


I suppose I misspoke. I know what they're for. I don't know why they exist other than to just have more Pokeballs. The benefit of using them doesn't seem to change much.

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They have higher catch rate for certain conditions, for instance at night the Dusk Ball is far better than any Ultra Ball.

 

[abellwillring]

Why is it bad to include an option to make it more difficult? As it is, you have to remove even more interaction with the game's systems if you want to make the game more difficult. Because that's what I want to do if I want to have to think about my strategy; Take away even more options.

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This board is absolutely filled with people claiming that From should not provide a different difficulty level. I don't see why Game Freak should either. If you do want it to be harder, it's very easy to make it harder -- use different/weaker Pokemon. You can't make a From Software game easier even if you try.

I like everyone being on the same base playing field.

 

[Doc Kelso]

This board is absolutely filled with people claiming that From should not provide a different difficulty level. I don't see why Game Freak should either. If you do want it to be harder, it's very easy to make it harder -- use different/weaker Pokemon. You can't make a From Software game easier even if you try.

I like everyone being on the same base playing field.

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But again, you're saying I should disengage with the game's design in order to allow myself a chance to engage with other systems. And even then, if I disengage with the basic type-advantage mechanic, I don't think things like abilities, stats, nature, or even buffs will make up for it in many cases. Is it not better to have all of the systems work in harmony with one-another?

I fail to see what From Software games have anything to do with a discussion about Pokemon. The type of difficulty alone doesn't translate in any capacity whatsoever.

But too entertain the idea for a moment, I don't think making a From Software game easier would allow your average player to completely ignore mechanics. It would just make them more fair for that individual. As it is with Pokemon, you can ignore 90% of the mechanics of the game and breeze through it and there's no option--no option at all--to explore all of those mechanics.

Difficulty should not just equal bigger HP and damage values. That's lazy.

 

[Indelible]

I actually agree with this, I breezed through Pokemon Sword only dying once whereas I really had to strategize in older Pokemon games.

 

[NZerker12]

This board is absolutely filled with people claiming that From should not provide a different difficulty level. I don't see why Game Freak should either. If you do want it to be harder, it's very easy to make it harder -- use different/weaker Pokemon. You can't make a From Software game easier even if you try.

I like everyone being on the same base playing field.

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LOL, what?

The campaign is freaking single player , if people want and decide to play a hard mode they have every right to do so. It has absolutely no effect on other players.

"Same base playing field". Get out of here with that nonsense.

 

[Johann Mistletoe]

If Hard Mode = enemies at higher level, then it's a wasted effort. That does nothing in the long term except push the player to grind more. If you think fights are too easy, skip more random battles. The fights as is will give you a challenge if you hold back from leveling, and there are a variety of ways to do this, whether you run from wild pokemon or use a different team between gyms.

 

[abellwillring]

LOL, what?

The campaign is freaking single player , if people want and decide to play a hard mode they have every right to do so. It has absolutely no effect on other players.

"Same base playing field". Get out of here with that nonsense.

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...isn't that the exact case From Software fans make? They're single player games with one difficulty level. If you can't hack it, then oh well -- that is the pervasive message.

I fail to see any difference, frankly. If you think Pokemon is too easy, then you have a very easy way of making it harder though which you cannot do on their titles. I like the fact Pokemon has one difficulty level.

 

[NZerker12]

...isn't that the exact case From Software fans make? They're single player games with one difficulty level. If you can't hack it, then oh well -- that is the pervasive message.

I fail to see any difference, frankly. If you think Pokemon is too easy, then you have a very easy way of making it harder though which you cannot do on their titles. I like the fact Pokemon has one difficulty level.

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I never argued that FROM games shouldn't have difficulty options, if there are a lot of people who want it then I believe an easier difficulty should exist and quite frankly FROM games are hardly a valid comparison. FROM games are designed to be hard, it part of the gameplay, the current difficulty in Pokemon games on the other hand is from a misguided belief from not GameFreak but their heads that kids can't handle harder experiences and that options are bad because a kid can accidentally activate it. As for your make it easy by only using weak pokemon or some of the mechanics just shows how much difficulty is an afterthought to them and that the current system is flawed. Quite frankly its bad game design, you shouldn't have to not use mechanics the game gives you to make your experience harder.

 

[Greywaren]

Difficulty options are always good. Always.

 

[Deleted member 864]

I'm all for it. I think the last time this series actually challenged me was Cynthia.

 

[BlueRose]

Why are people conflating From Software fans with Pokémon fans? Do the two properties share a fanbase? It shouldn't matter what From Software fans argue with regard to difficulty options when discussing Pokémon.

Multiple difficulty modes or options to customise your experience are very much needed in Pokémon as the audience is so broad.

 

[Cyberninja776]

Oh boy, I'm just going to say this in regards to difficulty modes, feel free to call me a hypocrite if you want.

From games don't need any difficulty modes because the whole point of the game is the challenge and beyond that there isn't any thing you can do to change that without fundamentally changing the game at it's core. Personally I think anyone can beat any game if they want to, but it's also understandable that in cases like From games that's a big commitment if you aren't super good at the genre.

Pokemon on the other hand has an easy single player and adding different difficulty modes such as hard mode would be helpful because they could do more to ease players into getting into the multiplayer because as it is finishing the game and doing battle tower won't help you when fighting another human because it requires no engagement and doesn't teach you anything beyond have bigger numbers and super effective moves. For example how many people actually use buffs, hazards and status moves when fighting the A.I.? Yet these things make or break a battle against someone who knows what their doing.

Basically what I'm saying is From designs their games to hard because that's the experience they want to deliver. Game Freak on the other hand designs the games to be easy because kids play them and so they don't get frustrated but as a consequence long time fans(who they supposedly still want to be playing the games) or people who want to get into the competitive scene are left behind and hard mode or toggles would address that issue as seen in B2W2. Those games while still easy(if you know what you are doing) didn't let you go into them unprepared in challenge mode and I feel like that's a good first step if someone wants to engage with the games beyond the story.