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Pokemon Sword and Shield discussion thread (spoiler-free) [see staff post]

Are you buying the game physically, digitally?

  • Physically

    Votes: 619 42.2%
  • As a gift physically

    Votes: 18 1.2%
  • Digitally

    Votes: 483 32.9%
  • As a gift digitally

    Votes: 4 0.3%
  • Neither

    Votes: 259 17.7%
  • One Digitally and One Physically?

    Votes: 27 1.8%
  • Both Digital or Physical?

    Votes: 56 3.8%

  • Total voters
    1,466

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,292
Exactly, and when I said harassing was crossing a line, people just responded "So we're not allowed to criticise?"

The whole situation is so frustrating. Like I don't want the dex cut but SWSH look fun and I'm probably going to enjoy the hell out of them
A lot of people are getting defensive when the toxicity is called out even if you aren't calling them toxic.
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
1,640
I can't wait for the game to finally come out so I can delve into it and forget about the whole shit show that has been going ever since the game was first revealed.
I just hope the OT ends up being a nice place to discuss the games without too much of a shitstorm.

Is this the lowest the Pokemon fandom has ever gone? It certainly feels like it.
I'd say it is, yes. It's become embarrassing at this point.
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
1,640
Yep. This for example. I tweet about the event being cancelled and the reason they gave. That's it.

I get responses like this
I have to praise you for keeping up with what you do despite all of this. I'm not sure I could handle all the pressure. There is a truly awful sector in this fandom that is very, very loud lately.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
6,551
I have to praise you for keeping up with what you do despite all of this. I'm not sure I could handle all the pressure. There is a truly awful sector in this fandom that is very, very loud lately.
It's hard, but I know it's not the majority.

It's a symptom of social media. It's like this everywhere. Every time there's discontent, it seems there's nothing between mild indifference and absolute outrage anymore.
 
Aug 22, 2018
1,714
I mean, sure, I'm not really deep into the whole pokemon community, but I've seen negativity before and I never felt that it was ever this intense or overt.
Probably because it's more easy to communicate this negativity now, I might understand when angry teenagers say toxic stuff because they might know any better, but when 20+ y.o keep complaining for what 5 months now? It's insane.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,292
Should I feel bad for all the film crew when a movie disappoints me? Should I feel bad for the audio engineer when I don’t like a new album?

Give me a break. Don’t create content if you can’t handle the criticism.

The only empathy I feel is because whoever the higher ups are at GameFreak that botched the handling of this PR. And obviously those calling for death threats and other juvenile behavior can suck it but I’m not gonna temper my words if I think the game looks bad
Isn't this victim blaming?
 

DassoBrother

Member
Oct 25, 2017
959
Saskatchewan
I'm at the point where I need a hype thread with mandatory positivity. I'm just excited for the games and wanting to see for myself what's on offer. Dex cuts suck for some but it has literally zero impact on the way I've played the last three gens. I don't remember ever bringing Pokemon forward with gen 1 or 2 either honestly (I never finished any of the games in between gens 2 and 6). I guess I need to just drop out of threads for now though since there isn't really much to discuss until the games are out and most people that have lots to say are talking about their disappointment. I might just focus on Smogon since their pre-release spoiler thread is pretty interesting so far.
 

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,307
I hope the games are going to be considered as among the best of the franchise.

They have the potential and it would show that once more, a game can shine despite a troubled hype cycle.
 

MayorTortimer

Member
May 27, 2018
89
I mean, sure, I'm not really deep into the whole pokemon community, but I've seen negativity before and I never felt that it was ever this intense or overt.
I'm not certain, but I believe that Masuda and other people at Game Freak have made themselves more accessible on platforms like Twitter in recent years, which has really opened them up to an unbelievable amount of harassment and trolling. I remember some Pokemon fans being pretty insufferable back on the Nsider forums even (like 10+ years ago) but Game Freak was way more insulated back then. These days, Nintendo/The Pokemon Company/Game Freak/Masuda can't tweet about Pokemon without people absolutely losing it in the comments.
 

pld

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
I just hope the OT ends up being a nice place to discuss the games without too much of a shitstorm.
From what I have heard the OTs are usually really good and apparently the Let's Go OT was chill. I mean I can see it as people who are not interested in the game have no reason to go into them.
 

MayorTortimer

Member
May 27, 2018
89
I disagree with this. No, you can’t judge a game as a whole until release, but you can criticise development decisions, changes in direction, the PR cycle, etc.
I think it is fine expressing uneasiness with certain decisions, but there are self-purported "fans" of the series claiming that Game Freak has betrayed them/ruined the entire series for good and it just seems really childish and short-sighted. My argument is that, maybe in the context of the entire game, these decisions will make sense and will pay off. Or, at the very least, maybe all other aspects of the game will be so enjoyable that it's worth the compromise. The amount of entitlement that it takes to not give Game Freak the benefit of the doubt is just a little disturbing. And instead of fading away, people who are gravely upset about the decisions GF made are joining together, festering, and sending endless hateful comments to Masuda, TPC, Nintendo, and GF.

For example, when Let's Go was announced, there were decisions that really turned me off as well--like the decision to remove wild Pokemon and to keep the game to the original pokemon from Gen 1. But, while some people still weren't fans of the game, I gave it a shot and ended up really enjoying it. 🤷‍♂️
 
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chase beck

Member
Jan 3, 2018
539
This is so disheartening. I cannot believe a storm of this size has begun over what? Because you can’t use your favorite Pokémon in one fucking game out of how many? Don’t buy it, speak up - speak with your wallet and voice - but when the rhetoric is so far gone that all that’s left is pointless harassment it makes me feel sick.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,540
Honestly, the Pokemon fandom seemed fine until X & Y. The only shitty aspect was the casual/competitive split, much like Smash.

Nowadays, it's easily the worst gaming fandom, together with Metroid and Overwatch. Sonic with all of its unholy fanart has nothing on this.
 

killertofu

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
897
Isn't this victim blaming?
How so? I’m talking more about the “morale at gamefreak is low” bit. I’m talking about the unnamed people who work on these things. It’s not their fault that these decisions are made so I don’t think they should give the angry mob any mind. I work at a big entertainment corporation and have to make stuff that is rushed constantly. So if people talk shit about my work in my head I’m just like “well I didn’t have enough time to do what I want”.

Don’t ban bait me with that terminology.
 

GoldStarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,206
I think those toxic people have always been there, they just needed something to bring out their inner toxicity, 4chan is scum of the earth though.
I agree with this to some level but
Probably because it's more easy to communicate this negativity now, I might understand when angry teenagers say toxic stuff because they might know any better, but when 20+ y.o keep complaining for what 5 months now? It's insane.
I don't think this is the case at all. And this is definitely the worst that the fandom has gotten. There's always been a bit of awfulness in the Pokemon fandom that peeked out every so often, but usually it was a fringe group like genwunners or metagame elitists, but this issue seems to be way bigger and is pulling from all the dark corners of the fandom.
 

killertofu

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
897
There ain’t no dark corners, dude. Give me the national dex and I wouldn’t have gotten my first bans in a forum since 2004 because of it. I would’ve accepted another run of the mill Pokémon game but the national dex was just the breaking point. All of a sudden it’s like a fuse blew and all these thoughts came rushing in that GF had been stagnating for so long. Also could have been cause I was replaying HG and playing Platinum for the first time going “holy shit so much love was put into this”. Not saying SwordShield don’t but it felt like GF was flexing.
 

BlueRose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,062
I think it is fine expressing uneasiness with certain decisions, but there are self-purported "fans" of the series claiming that Game Freak has betrayed them/ruined the entire series for good and it just seems really childish and short-sighted. My argument is that, maybe in the context of the entire game, these decisions will make sense and will pay off. Or, at the very least, maybe all other aspects of the game will be so enjoyable that it's worth the compromise. The amount of entitlement that it takes to not give Game Freak the benefit of the doubt is just a little disturbing. And instead of fading away, people who are gravely upset about the decisions GF made are joining together, festering, and sending endless hateful comments to Masuda, TPC, Nintendo, and GF.

For example, when Let's Go was announced, there were decisions that really turned me off as well--like the decision to remove wild Pokemon and to keep the game to the original pokemon from Gen 1. But, while some people still weren't fans of the game, I gave it a shot and ended up really enjoying it. 🤷‍♂️
I have done my best to avoid spoilers regarding the number of Pokémon available in the Galarian Dex and returning Pokémon, because these might make sense in the context of the game, especially if each Pokémon is given more opportunity to shine. I don’t want to read a number out of context that elicits a feeling of disappointment and colours my experience and opinion of Sword and Shield.

However, criticism and constructive feedback are an important part of the design process. If people were only permitted to express uneasiness, do you think the Sonic the Hedgehog movie would have been delayed and Sonic’s design changed to more closely resemble his most recognisable appearance? I don’t particularly care for Sonic, but it’s an example of criticism that resulted in positive change if the recently leaked design is legitimate.
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
1,640
I have done my best to avoid spoilers regarding the number of Pokémon available in the Galarian Dex and returning Pokémon, because these might make sense in the context of the game, especially if each Pokémon is given more opportunity to shine. I don’t want to read a number out of context that elicits a feeling of disappointment and colours my experience and opinion of Sword and Shield.

However, criticism and constructive feedback are an important part of the design process. If people were only permitted to express uneasiness, do you think the Sonic the Hedgehog movie would have been delayed and Sonic’s design changed to more closely resemble his most recognisable appearance? I don’t particularly care for Sonic, but it’s an example of criticism that resulted in positive change if the recently leaked design is legitimate.
Again, there's a HUGE difference between criticism and harassment. Complaining about stuff you don't like is perfectly fine and all of us should do it if given the chance, but attacking people, harassing the developers, threatening them, calling them names and overall being a piece of garbage like a lot of people have been these last few months is NOT okay.

You mention movie Sonic's redesign. People were just mocking it, criticizing it, and it worked. Nobody had to go and harass the director of the movie, or the SFX guys or anything.

There's a line you shouldn't cross when you're upset about something as trivial as a videogame, and a lot of people have crossed that line this time.
 

Banamy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
756
There ain’t no dark corners, dude. Give me the national dex and I wouldn’t have gotten my first bans in a forum since 2004 because of it. I would’ve accepted another run of the mill Pokémon game but the national dex was just the breaking point. All of a sudden it’s like a fuse blew and all these thoughts came rushing in that GF had been stagnating for so long. Also could have been cause I was replaying HG and playing Platinum for the first time going “holy shit so much love was put into this”. Not saying SwordShield don’t but it felt like GF was flexing.
So much love in hgss like ignoring all of its major problems?
 

BlueRose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,062
Again, there's a HUGE difference between criticism and harassment. Complaining about stuff you don't like is perfectly fine and all of us should do it if given the chance, but attacking people, harassing the developers, threatening them, calling them names and overall being a piece of garbage like a lot of people have been these last few months is NOT okay.

You mention movie Sonic's redesign. People were just mocking it, criticizing it, and it worked. Nobody had to go and harass the director of the movie, or the SFX guys or anything.

There's a line you shouldn't cross when you're upset about something as trivial as a videogame, and a lot of people have crossed that line this time.
Sorry, but at no point did I equate criticism and harassment as equally justified. I am well aware of the differences. I never even mentioned harassment and I absolutely do not support the harassment of developers. I was responding to a post that stated no one should criticise a game until after it had released. I’m not sure why you are coming at me with this?
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
1,640
Sorry, but at no point did I equate criticism and harassment as equally justified. I never even mentioned harassment and I absolutely do not support the harassment of developers. I was responding to a post that stated no one should criticise a game until after it had released. I’m not sure why you are coming at me with this?
I think I misread your post, sorry.
 

HackTheSlash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,078
So, there is a lot of drama surrounding this game these days. As a a bit of positivity, ill just say i never played a Pokemon game. This will be my first, and im looking forward to it. Looks like it could be some good fun.
 

BlueRose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,062
So, there is a lot of drama surrounding this game these days. As a a bit of positivity, ill just say i never played a Pokemon game. This will be my first, and im looking forward to it. Looks like it could be some good fun.
Every Pokémon game is someone’s first. I hope you share your impressions in the OT next week!
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
1,640
So, there is a lot of drama surrounding this game these days. As a a bit of positivity, ill just say i never played a Pokemon game. This will be my first, and im looking forward to it. Looks like it could be some good fun.
I must say, you picked a good moment to jump into it. One of the very few perks of having less Pokémon is that it will be much easier for you to learn and get to know them. Imagine jumping into the series without having played before and having to memorize 900 Pokémon...

I hope you enjoy it! Pokémon is one of my favorite series and it makes me happy to see new people giving it a chance.
 

HackTheSlash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,078
Thanks folks. Been looking at the leaked pics of the ones who are in the game trying to get an idea of which ones i think look cool and to keep an eye out for them. Some really cool looking ones i think.

Ive always been curious about them. But I personally dont like hand-held gaming and find it uncomfortable. Im also in my 40s, so looking at tiny screens annoys me. So now that i can play one on my big-ass TV, im super happy i get to finally give them a shot.
 

BlueRose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,062
I must say, you picked a good moment to jump into it. One of the very few perks of having less Pokémon is that it will be much easier for you to learn and get to know them. Imagine jumping into the series without having played before and having to memorize 900 Pokémon...

I hope you enjoy it! Pokémon is one of my favorite series and it makes me happy to see new people giving it a chance.
I’d imagine the lines between generations would also be greatly blurred. If you weren’t familiar with many older Pokémon, you could see them as having always been part of whatever generation you first encountered them.

I’m expecting that there’ll be more first timers than ever before, who might have avoided handheld games previously.
 

Xavi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,196
Lightning for Smash
This reminds when people complained that you could only catch unova pokémon in BW and the old mons were locked behind post game. That's a shame because I looove BW for that reason, it was the breath of fresh air that I needed at the time.
 

MELLO

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,665
Yes. Ideally this should allow them to improve in other areas.

Personally, other than improving the battles both in terms of mechanics, but mostly in the aesthetical aspect (better size proportion, more personalized animations, better idle poses, etc) I really don't expect other stuff. Many people give so much importance to the overworld, and want an open world and whatnot, or the wild area to be bigger, but, why do they even want that, if they don't even want to catch too many Pokémon? If they just want the open world to find people to fight against, it would be so much easier to just battle them at a facility like the battle tower or so.

I don't know what to say it, it's like people want the Pokémon games to be all about exploring, and the map, and the dungeons, and whatnot, and while that spices up the adventure, I keep seeing battles as the main point of the Pokémon games. All the maps and NPC's and stuff is just to have a reason for all those battles (against trainers or against wild Pokémon). Like, I'm not against things that add fun or entertainment to the experience, but I don't see it as something that the main Pokémon games NEED, in the sense that they're lacking it right now, in order to be complete or something (unlike missing Pokémon). They're just extra stuff, a bonus on top of the main purpose of the game.

If the developers could give us both a huge and enriched experience in the overworld, with dungeons and puzzles, and many different actions that the trainer could do to explore the areas, AND on top of that give us the ultimate battle experience, that would be more than welcomed. But if they're clearly struggling to improve everything and have to make a choice about what should they be focusing on, I'll always pick the battles / the Pokémon (which are the ones that battle).
I mean Ash dont catch all the pokemon he run into. That said it looks like we’re speaking on different perspectives.
 

BlueRose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,062
Thanks folks. Been looking at the leaked pics of the ones who are in the game trying to get an idea of which ones i think look cool and to keep an eye out for them. Some really cool looking ones i think.

Ive always been curious about them. But I personally dont like hand-held gaming and find it uncomfortable. Im also in my 40s, so looking at tiny screens annoys me. So now that i can play one on my big-ass TV, im super happy i get to finally give them a shot.
I don’t expect you’ll be alone! One of my colleagues recently bought a Switch and has never owned a Nintendo handheld. He’s looking forward to buying Pokémon; his only experience with the franchise is from Pokémon Go.
 

Fusionfrenzy

Member
Aug 2, 2019
98
This reminds when people complained that you could only catch unova pokémon in BW and the old mons were locked behind post game. That's a shame because I looove BW for that reason, it was the breath of fresh air that I needed at the time.
But all the Pokemon were available in B/W. You just had to wait for post game. The cut Pokemon are completely missing from the data and will never be attainable in Sw/Sh