As long as police are not held accountable by either the legal system or their peers, nothing will ever change.
Police unions need to be dismantled first as well.
Police unions need to be dismantled first as well.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Police body cams ain't working: what's next?
- Thread starter Lv99 Slacker
- Start date
i do not, i'm firmly anti gun. buy back/confiscate and melt all of them is my stance.
i do not understand why you would say that or think i "hinge on punishment" tbh, i certainly do not.
If there were suddenly no cops people would go to the streets and celebrate.
Fuck the police. They are a gang of fascists. We don't need the current form of police.
it's still on this same page....
If
Then
is not true, that won't happen.
so go ahead, say it, say that it won't happen.
Police do other things than act as a deterrent to crime. There're large administrative and first responder components.
After a house burglary, who responds to the home if there are no police?
Who goes to an active school shooting situation without police? Or a domestic disturbance?
Who makes arrests? Fills out police reports (for traffic accidents and other menial things)?
After a house burglary, who responds to the home if there are no police?
Who goes to an active school shooting situation without police? Or a domestic disturbance?
Who makes arrests? Fills out police reports (for traffic accidents and other menial things)?
History tells us when a society reaches its tipping point due to governmental mismanagement, police is on the side of the propertied/aristocratic class, not the masses. The 2nd Amendment was made because the founders believed this. The idea was the citizenry would protect themselves when push came to shove because police would side with the (presumably) autocratic state. Obviously it didn't work out that way, but this was the theory behind it.
But make no mistake, when a society collapses to lawlessness it's not actually due to the failure of the official law enforcement entity (yes it sounds weird but it's generally true). The collapse of institutions of law enforcement usually goes hand in hand with general societal collapse but it's correlation not causation. Societies collapse due to inequality, unsustainability, warfare, social upheaval, environmental degradation, etc.
Firstly, I should add the disclaimer that I'm not American.
I agree that serious reform is needed- but your thinking implies an all or nothing approach. Crime is not a 'boogeyman' to the victim - and I don't believe that eliminating the enforcement of laws helps the victims - or the perpetrators who deserve a fairly balanced mixture of rehabilitation and punishment.
Then that's not very good either - a more realistic (and perhaps also idealist given the current situation) scenario wouldn't consist of a prejudiced and untrained force enforcing laws. You can rightly argue that prejudice and lack of training persists now, but that's a symptom of the problem - not a goal to work towards even further!
I'm of no illusion that reformed policing consists of a broader and more measured approach. I agree that low level/non-criminal behaviour can be handled in a separate and more productive manner.
Social injustices absolutely result in wider issues, but I don't think the article implies it's a one or nothing situation.
Bingo. Law enforcement will circle the wagons around the aristocrats and power structure protecting the systems of power.
see, it wasn't hard.
you think that if you were to remove any kind of law enforcement, neo-nazis and racists mobs would not kill black people, religious nutjobs and others would not kill gays or trans people or beat them up because they think they are abominations.
you think that it would not happen, they would totally control themselves because of the good hearted nature of man.
fine.
totally not "off".
I mean you guys can nip over to the Hong Kong thread to see how it really goes down.
People (civilians) demand their rights. Strike/riot for it. Police are sent in to break it up, protect property, protect politicians, protect the interests of the CCP and their lackeys in Hong Kong. This is the true function of police. The "good" things they do in peace time like breaking up a fight or finding your lost wallet is just a side effect, especially if you're middle/upper middle class and you have nice things you want to keep.
People (civilians) demand their rights. Strike/riot for it. Police are sent in to break it up, protect property, protect politicians, protect the interests of the CCP and their lackeys in Hong Kong. This is the true function of police. The "good" things they do in peace time like breaking up a fight or finding your lost wallet is just a side effect, especially if you're middle/upper middle class and you have nice things you want to keep.
The people that would do this, either already do it, or already have. The police are not deterring them.
Im not the one saying something completely asinine. You ever been with someone committing a crime and a cop rolls up? A group of people going 20 over the speed limit and a police car shows up? What do you think happens? Ever been on a block when a corner man sees a cop? I guess he just keeps on selling right? That cops existence not gonna stop him! What a clown lol
Having an outside team police the cops is the only way. Relying on cops or friends of cops to police themselves is bullshit.
Constantly giving them the benefit of the doubt, having punishment be paid vacations, making "I feared for my life" a get out of jail free card and the pure power of the unions makes any kind of way to hold them responsible for their actions impossible.
Also, cops being able to turn off dash or body cams is the worst damn design possible. Body cams should be impossible to be turned off by anyone outside the IT or whatever department and they should be on for a cops entire shift. They should be verified to be in working condition before they set foot out the door.
Though were that the case, I fully expect a 1000% rise in the, "it broke in the line of duty" excuse while copsaccidentally conveniently smash them to pieces. Oopsie daisy.
Constantly giving them the benefit of the doubt, having punishment be paid vacations, making "I feared for my life" a get out of jail free card and the pure power of the unions makes any kind of way to hold them responsible for their actions impossible.
Also, cops being able to turn off dash or body cams is the worst damn design possible. Body cams should be impossible to be turned off by anyone outside the IT or whatever department and they should be on for a cops entire shift. They should be verified to be in working condition before they set foot out the door.
Though were that the case, I fully expect a 1000% rise in the, "it broke in the line of duty" excuse while cops
Last edited:
The implication here (on a wider scale) is that if police ceased to exist, and didn't act to enforce laws, that the protected classes would just relent and wouldn't have their own equivalent of a randomly picked untrained militia (by your own suggestion) to protect them.
Only, you know, they'd be richer and have zero accountability.
I don't tend to hang out with the sort of people you do I guess, so no. And speeding as an example of crime prevention? Yeah, glad we have cops keeping all those criminals in line.
Oh here's the other thing. I want to seize wealth. I don't believe anyone needs more than $50 million and we should take it and redistribute it to the needy. Obviously I don't want libertarian police hell.
Wasn't a large part of the impetus for the 2nd Amendment that the Federal government specifically wasn't granted a standing army (for fear of what that could lead to if they decided to go after individual states) and that if a foreign country invaded the newly-founded nation it would be better for the citizens/state militias to have the means to resist than risk the downsides of a perpetual centralized army?
Yes this is correct. I stretched the truth a bit.
I mean it comes down to the same thing, democratization of the means of force and self defense.
Sorry, the second sentence was more of a complimentary addition to the link. I didn't mean to suggest that you were being unreasonable.
Yeah, the article doesn't really land on police abolition as the solution or anything. Personally I'm more in favour of decentralised community policing with an emphasis on prevention and situational deescalation rather than punishment, and a much higher bar for the kinds of offence which mandates incarceration or financial penalties.
Ah, no worries!
Yeah, I'm pretty much agreed with you on that tbh.
Pretty much.
Lets say someone grabs your arm and twists is behind your back.. You literal first reaction without thinking would be to pull away or force your arm back straight where it's supposed to go.
Now let this person be a cop and you do the same first reaction. You'd be considered resisting and for some reason this gives them free reign to punch you in the back of the head, sweep your legs, throw you on the floor drop a knee on the back of your neck and have 10 other guys jump on you while 2-3 of them punch you in the ribs. If not worse.
Nice for you to speak so definitively about something you know nothing about. Please stick to what you know breh
To all the folks calling for dismantling the police union, you do realize that you are essentially calling for an end to public unions. Whatever strategy might be used to dismantle the police union will then be used as a template to go after teachers, firefighters and other public unions.
There are a myriad of other steps that should be tried first before going for the "nuclear" option.
There are a myriad of other steps that should be tried first before going for the "nuclear" option.
Right about what? You just said you don't hang out with those sort of people. So, how do you presume to know how a cops presence would affect a criminal or a crime about to take place? According to you someone would just proceed to commit a crime in the presence of a cop because a cops existence would never deter them. Please enlighten me as to how you came to this conclusion.
They weren't supposed to be a solution. What's next is what was always next, reform. But it'll never happen.
This is a good post, we should be encouraging more trade unions with the clout of the FOP. In fact, ideally I'd roll the FOP into existing trade unions which cover other workers too.
Yeah, that'd go over really well with the number of shootings that occur in the U.S. I realize that cops are on the wrong end of those on a regular basis, but it blows my mind that some people somehow think cops aren't necessary. This problem needs to be tackled on a federal level, though it'd be nice if it could be dealt with locally. It's kind of a weird problem, because you ultimately need the help of people you don't trust in some form.
I mean.. proper training, mayhaps? But the 'workplace-culture' definitely needs to change, no idea how you'd do that, though.
But how long is the training in the US? A couple of months? It's a bachelor's degree here, and that certainly seems to help.
Persecuting the bad apples who almost always seem to get off scot-free would also help, I guess.
But how long is the training in the US? A couple of months? It's a bachelor's degree here, and that certainly seems to help.
Persecuting the bad apples who almost always seem to get off scot-free would also help, I guess.
Establish any affiliation with hate/white supremacist groups is instant grounds for expulsion, terrorist watch list and 25-to-life.
Longer police training and stricter vetting processes. If they find a loose cannon or racist, expel them immediately and put them on a watch list.
Killing anyone unarmed and surrendering is life in prison or death penalty.
No grandfather clause either. All those killer cops who got away with it would wake up behind bars the next day.
Longer police training and stricter vetting processes. If they find a loose cannon or racist, expel them immediately and put them on a watch list.
Killing anyone unarmed and surrendering is life in prison or death penalty.
No grandfather clause either. All those killer cops who got away with it would wake up behind bars the next day.
Body cams would work if the officer could not turn them off. Them having the ability to turn them off completely negates the benefits of wearing them in the first place.
There should honestly be a separate investigative/prosecutorial system specifically for police crimes, that should be run at the state or federal level instead of locally. So long as police are going to have their case presented by the same local prosecutors who depend on them for evidence, you're not going to see real action against police. They're going to avoid taking anything to court that they can, and go as soft as they get away with if they're forced to actually indict a cop. You need an organization whose entire purpose is prosecuting cops, without those conflicts of interest, staffed by people who specifically signed up because they want to see bad cops in prison.
Beyond that, just upping the requirements for being an officer so that police work would be big. We give cops military-style power without military-style training and discipline. But "training" is one of those vague things that's hard to actually make work as a solution. And as bad of a precedent as it may set, police unions are clearly bad and need to be broken up, and there needs to be a project within the intellectual left to build a framework for treating police unions differently from other unions.
Beyond that, just upping the requirements for being an officer so that police work would be big. We give cops military-style power without military-style training and discipline. But "training" is one of those vague things that's hard to actually make work as a solution. And as bad of a precedent as it may set, police unions are clearly bad and need to be broken up, and there needs to be a project within the intellectual left to build a framework for treating police unions differently from other unions.
Real punishment. Lying on police reports to cover your or another cop's shitty behavior should be grounds for termination. Failure to use or turning off body cams as well.
Screaming and excessive force or contradictory commands when gun drawn on people clearly complying should be fines or termination.
Jail time for those violent asshole excessive tasing, beating detained or complying individuals, screaming gun and escalating and there isn't.
"Feared for my life" not a get out of jail free card.
Screaming and excessive force or contradictory commands when gun drawn on people clearly complying should be fines or termination.
Jail time for those violent asshole excessive tasing, beating detained or complying individuals, screaming gun and escalating and there isn't.
"Feared for my life" not a get out of jail free card.
I'm as angry as anyone else here, but no police in the US, where guns outnumber people, would lead to mass chaos. Replace the entire system if you have to, but we need something.
Yea.....I mean I don't know if "zero police" is immediately the right answer but responses like this always make me roll my eyes.
I maintain that in my 32 years of life, the police have never not once been helpful to me and as a black man I fear for my life by their mere presence. They are 100% a tangible threat to my life and safety.
I truly feel they will either kill me, beat me to death or set me up to go to prison because there are no consequences and I'll be just another "no angel nigger" they'll put on the news and justify because they found marijuana in my system after toxicology reports come back.
Police set my brother up and he served 9 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. He spent his best years (his 20s) behind bars and now has a fucked up mentality he's only partially getting over now that he's been released, finished trade school and has been working close to 5 years.
A few years ago, I literally tried to cross the street to a concert and was verbally assaulted and asked "Do you want to die?! Get arrested?! Or go see Kanye?! Huh?!" by a deranged shitstain cop that felt I disrespected his authority by not asking for permission to cross before my foot stepped off the curb. This was in a group of maybe 50+ people all crossing the street at once and of course this unhinged fuck singles the black man out to yell at at the top of his lungs cuz reasons. Once he finishes assaulting me, embarrassing me and gives me his permission to cross the street, another cop pulls me to the side and tells me "hey man don't worry about him...you didn't do anything wrong..." But...then why didn't you say that when he threatened to kill me or arrest me just now? Fuck you too. Now I guess I'll go inside the arena, try to stop shaking and enjoy the concert with my lady friend that I was holding hands with, right?
When I get pulled over, the cops usual first question to me is "when's the last time you were arrested?" And then they feign surprise when I respond that I've never been arrested or even placed in handcuffs in my life. They might as well call me Boy because I can feel them wanting to.
I broke 3 vertebrae when I was 17 by an accident. From the outside looking in you obviously can't tell, but my neck is extremely weak, painful and sensitive and it only gets worse as I get older. Each time I'm around a cop the immediate thought that goes thru my mind is "if this psycho decides to slam me to the ground and/or put his body weight/knee on my neck as I've seen in countless police encounters with innocent black people I'm dead with no recourse". The second thought is "I should call my mom because this may be my last chance to hear her voice and her mine."
What are the odds that me saying "I broke my neck please don't do this" will actually be believed and care taken by them? Fuck them. They made this reputation themselves and have done nothing to make me feel otherwise, and actually each instance like this only further accelerates my hate for them. So no, I won't be "needing the police". They don't serve us and they don't protect us. It's clear.